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chutwig posted:That's cool. . . Oh how obvious and intuitive. Another wonderful usability innovation from Apple.
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 01:03 |
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| # ? May 19, 2013 10:34 |
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Lum posted:Oh how obvious and intuitive. Another wonderful usability innovation from Apple. How is it more or less intuitive than looking for bugcheck errors in the System section of Event Viewer? I realize it's good fun to snark at Apple over everything that seems even slightly foreign, but if you're going to do that, don't do it because you don't know anything about the operating system. That just makes you look uninformed. chutwig fucked around with this message at Mar 26, 2010 around 01:16 |
| # ? Mar 26, 2010 01:13 |
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Edit: ^ beaten to it, but anyway, It can also be viewed from the Console. Which, although I've never messed with it / thought about it until it was mentioned earlier, is actually in a fairly obvious location - Utilities, under Applications. Because Control Panel - Administrative Tools - Event Viewer is totally more intuitive  (Well it's more difficult to find IMO but is better consolidated when you do find it. Call it even.)
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 01:16 |
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Zhentar posted:"Before you can perform print-related tasks such as page setup or printing a document, you need to install a printer." gently caress you, Adobe. New workstation came with Adobe Reader 8 installed, and surprise, they've gone up another version number without getting any less lovely once again. Print Setup sees all three installed printers just fine. Ugh yes gently caress focus stealing. I made a huge mistake today deleting old sessions of my remote session manager (mRemote) and it reconnected to an RDP session that had IIS open. Pushed delete, focus got stolen and a site got removed. Good thing we take nightly metabase backups on every windows machine we deploy that has IIS installed at setup time.
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 01:28 |
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LakesGuzzler posted:Because Control Panel - Administrative Tools - Event Viewer is totally more intuitive Right-click My Computer, Manage, Event Viewer. Start, Run, eventvwr.msc Lots of ways to get there. Not sure if anyone's way of doing it is intuitive.
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 02:04 |
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In Windows 7, you can just type "Event Viewer" at the Start menu. The Windows 7 version of the Run dialog is a lot more awesome than the XP one.
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 02:10 |
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chutwig posted:How is it more or less intuitive than looking for bugcheck errors in the System section of Event Viewer? I realize it's good fun to snark at Apple over everything that seems even slightly foreign, but if you're going to do that, don't do it because you don't know anything about the operating system. That just makes you look uninformed. I spend just as much time snarking about Windows and Unix for stupid design decisions. The difference here is the amount of marketing effort Apple put into claiming that it is intuitive and "just works". At least unix has never claimed to be user friendly. I dunno, maybe I'm still being pissed off at having to spend a week in a hospital ward next to an irritating mac fanboy who seemed to find the mere presence of my Thinkpad offensive to his sense of style. Lum fucked around with this message at Mar 26, 2010 around 02:41 |
| # ? Mar 26, 2010 02:38 |
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Lum posted:I spend just as much time snarking about Windows and Unix for stupid design decisions. ...but OS X is UNIX? I don't really understand what you're trying to argue here since 99.9% of users are never going to need to know or care about where OS X stores logs from kernel panics. If you want to discuss things that are supposed to be intuitive, look at commonly used functions in the OS, the design of the UI, user interface guidelines, things like that, not where to find a log that contains a stack trace from a kernel panic. For most users, the computer IS going to "just work", and at this stage in the game a kernel panic on OS X almost always indicates a hardware problem, owing to the lack of need for 3rd party kernel extensions for your average user. And that's a bummer that you got stuck next to an annoying Mac user for a week, but I've had to deal with my share of the Paul Thurrotts of the world, so does that make us even? There are annoying Mac users, there are annoying Windows users, there are annoying Solaris greybeards, etc.
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 02:47 |
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Ensign Expendable posted:In Windows 7, you can just type "Event Viewer" at the Start menu. The Windows 7 version of the Run dialog is a lot more awesome than the XP one. Spotlight -> "Console"? I mean, in the end, it's all pretty similar.
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 03:33 |
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HorusTheAvenger posted:Right-click My Computer, Manage, Event Viewer. This is my favorite, since Device Manager, Users, Disk Management, and Services are all right there too.
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 05:16 |
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chutwig posted:And that's a bummer that you got stuck next to an annoying Mac user for a week, but I've had to deal with my share of the Paul Thurrotts of the world, so does that make us even? There are annoying Mac users, there are annoying Windows users, there are annoying Solaris greybeards, etc. I've been working with all of these types, and to be honest; the Mac Apostle is by far the most annoying.
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 06:46 |
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The Fool posted:This is my favorite, since Device Manager, Users, Disk Management, and Services are all right there too. That goes right into the Start Menu on every Windows machine I administer.
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 07:48 |
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Crowley posted:I've been working with all of these types, and to be honest; the Mac Apostle is by far the most annoying.
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 07:54 |
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Crowley posted:I've been working with all of these types, and to be honest; the Mac Apostle is by far the most annoying. The Mac Apostles are annoying because, when it's all said and done, they know poo poo-all about computers. I'm a PC guy by preference, but that's really just based on which OS I have more experience with. I pretty much know where every tool I need can be found in Windows. With a Mac, I've often got to do a bit of looking. Whatever, that's fine. I know exactly who's fault that is: mine. I have some basic disagreements with some of the core Jobian tenets that drive Mac design (physical, UI, OS, etc.) choices, but at least half of that is also due to a disparity in reflexive comfort level. I have a co-worker who is a huge Mac guy (it's good thing, too, as "Mac guy" is pretty much his job title). He knows them backwards and forwards, their strengths and their weaknesses, but he is no more a Mac Apostle than I'm a PC Apostle. He knows that, in the end, it's just a loving computer. tldr: Mac Apostles are just the PC people who say "How did that get there I am not good with computers", except they spent more money and joined a "lifestyle". fake edit: Also, the next person I talk to who makes the claim that using the Adobe CS3/CS4 suite on a Mac is a significantly different (better!) experience than using it on a PC is going to get their teeth broken with a one-button mouse. These are the same %$^%$ers who seriously believe that a Mac, with its Intel CPU and nVidia GPU is somehow "better at graphics" than a PC with the same goddamn Intel CPU and nVidia GPU. "Macs are better at graphics" stopped being true in the mid 90's at the very latest. Is there supposed to be some sort of magic Jobs-Jizz-Juice that Macs are filled with that makes their generic hardware suddenly spray texels and pixels like a digikake firehose? tldr, part 2: sudden rage!
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 08:07 |
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I'm with the "It's just a computer" crowd. I know Windows back to front, and support it for a living. As long as it's managed properly and you don't click on everything like a maniac, it's a drat good OS and has been since 2000 / XP. The downside is the constant vigilance required to keep malware off, which is not even too bad with a bit of.. what I'd call "Common Sense" if it was common at all Linux I know pretty well and you have the obvious things like extreme control over the system, almost exclusively open source and free as in beer as well. Downside is the amount of time and effort required sometimes to do 'simple' things if they fall outside of what the distro has made scripts/UIs for. Mac advantages are being generally a delight to use (to me; others don't like using them and so it's logical not to), this certainly does involve a lot of form on top of a Unix based OS which actually provides a lot of function. Downsides? Mostly Apple's secrecy, which extends just as well to bugs and problems, and the occasional bit of "giving you options is confusing so you're not getting any". Luckily they usually pick sensible defaults. I'm still learning the last 2. It's not like the console in osx was difficult to find, but it's an example as I've never looked for it before. Saw it once when exploring the system and that was about it. Knowing all 3, why use a Mac? Lots of personal reasons. Supporting Windows all day at work, part of it is that I fancy a change at home. Partly because the applications they provide are actually very good at looking after personal/home things like photos (I love Aperture). Partly being enjoyable (IMO of course) to actually use. And partly yes, because they're sexy tech I have a passion for it and see nothing wrong with that. But do they have negative points? drat right they do. Everything does. By far the most annoying thing with any OS is indeed people who get all religious and blinkered and refuse to accept that they ALL have pros and cons. No, their OS is *perfect* and can do no wrong and everything else is the scum of the earth. I would be the first to admit that Mac users are the worst for this (enquire about a bug or mention a downside in a Mac user forum at your peril!!), closely followed by Linux but Windows has its fair share as well. GargleBlaster fucked around with this message at Mar 26, 2010 around 10:47 |
| # ? Mar 26, 2010 10:39 |
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Balzac Jones posted:tldr: Mac Apostles are just the PC people who say "How did that get there I am not good with computers", except they spent more money and joined a "lifestyle".
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 12:26 |
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I hate that I haven't found a way to use a keyboard to do anything on a Mac. For example, Cmd-Q to quit Firefox, but now how to I move to Quit. I don't always want to Save and Quit. I absolutely love the touchpad on the unibody Macs though.
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 12:30 |
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LakesGuzzler posted:By far the most annoying thing with any OS is indeed people who get all religious and blinkered and refuse to accept that they ALL have pros and cons. No, their OS is *perfect* and can do no wrong and everything else is the scum of the earth. I would be the first to admit that Mac users are the worst for this (enquire about a bug or mention a downside in a Mac user forum at your peril!!), closely followed by Linux but Windows has its fair share as well. This is pretty much me, and for some reason every second computer I buy for home-use seems to be a Mac. I buy one and use it for a few years, then go back to Windows, use that for a few years and so on and so forth.
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 12:33 |
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chutwig posted:How is it more or less intuitive than looking for bugcheck errors in the System section of Event Viewer? Ensign Expendable posted:In Windows 7, you can just type "Event Viewer" at the Start menu. The Windows 7 version of the Run dialog is a lot more awesome than the XP one. That leads me into a frustration I ran into the other day. I was trying to walk a coworker running Vista through setting up a PPTP connection, so I told her to click the Start button, type "Network", then click on "Network and Sharing Center" at the top. (She's one of the few in the office with Vista on her desktop) After spending a couple of minutes trying to figure out wtf she was describing, I just hopped on a webex with her. For some reason, there's a group policy in place enforcing classic start menu. 
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 13:08 |
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Lum posted:
"Unix is user-friendly. It just isn't promiscuous about which users it's friendly with." – Steven King
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 13:37 |
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chutwig posted:That's cool. . . Actually. . . that's where they are supposed to be kept. There wasn't a log for whatever was causing this one. I flatten/reinstall fixed it though, so don't ask me. Apple takes Unix base, fucks it in the rear end and makes it a bitch. I mean honestly, I do a lot of remote mounting, why did they need to change the loving mount command to be like 20 different effing commands, and why the living gently caress don't they leave ext filesystem support in the loving kernel?
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 14:17 |
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enotnert posted:Actually. . . that's where they are supposed to be kept. Does/did Mach ever have ext support? And OS X is Unix. By definition. If you have a problem with that, take it up with the Open Group for approving it.
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 14:25 |
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enotnert posted:Apple takes Unix base, fucks it in the rear end and makes it a bitch. I mean honestly, I do a lot of remote mounting, why did they need to change the loving mount command to be like 20 different effing commands, and why the living gently caress don't they leave ext filesystem support in the loving kernel? Your rants are incoherent. The mount command just invokes whichever mount command is necessary for the filesystem in question. While this is not exactly how Linux does mount, it's not a novel design by any standard, considering utilities like mkfs are split out into separate binaries for each filesystem type under Linux. In actual usage, there are scarce reasons to use mount itself unless you're trying to do something block-level, considering mountpoints are handled by diskarbitrationd and should be managed via diskutil from the command line. And why would it have ever had ext2/3 (assuming you mean these, and not the actual original extfs) support? OS X is not genetically related to Linux and would have no historical reason to support a filesystem used principally on Linux. This is once again all coming back to "I am unfamiliar with OS X and instead of spending 2 minutes with Google I am going to rant about how Steve Jobs is responsible for a poorly-designed gay OS used by dumbs and wannabe Linux users".
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 15:02 |
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chutwig posted:Your rants are incoherent. The mount command just invokes whichever mount command is necessary for the filesystem in question. While this is not exactly how Linux does mount, it's not a novel design by any standard, considering utilities like mkfs are split out into separate binaries for each filesystem type under Linux. In actual usage, there are scarce reasons to use mount itself unless you're trying to do something block-level, considering mountpoints are handled by diskarbitrationd and should be managed via diskutil from the command line. Let me make it coherent, mainly because I am in a "rage against the macs" mode today due to many of my professors wanting to replace their nice desktop iMacs with MBA's for whatever loving reason (status symbol) and then complain to me that the MBA doesn't do their matlab or maple work as quickly as the iMac did (not listening to the guy who is paid to help them make informed purchases). Ok, on the mount command. The mount command is simple, it's beautiful. On most *nixes if I want to mount an sbmfs/cifs filesystem it's mount -t smbfs then whatever options I need to throw at it. Yes, I know I can mount a remote smb/cifs filesystem by doing the stupid "open finder -> connect to server -> blah blah blah" but generally speaking that doesn't let me do some things on the command line which I need to do with these mounts. so how to do that in osx mount_smbfs I think, I haven't done it in so long because I normally don't need to do things at that level on a mac. Like stated, I'm just in a mac rage today (I loving hate mac book airs) Yes dear friend, I know how to use google. I am not some incompetent help desk person who uses windows 99% of the time, but has a dual boot with ubuntu going "LOOKY I IS SMRTER THAN U I USE DA LUNIX!". With the ext filesystems things. Apple went out of it's way to give you read support for NTFS filesystems (oh but wait! with mac-fuse you can install the community version of ntfs-3g and get write support, look at that). It wouldn't be that hard to add at least read support for ext partitions (whether it be ext2,3, or 4). Yes, I know I can add it with mac-fuse (well provided the mac-fuse site on google code is actually providing downloads this week). Don't get me wrong, I know I sounded incoherent up there. I have a macbook that doesn't dual boot or anything. I use it for lugging to friends houses, or back to my parents house. I am in love with the big old naughty touchpad on it. I'll just reiterate, this morning is a rage against macs morning. These are things that piss me off though. You pointed out where the kernel panic logs are kept. Thank you, that is something I definitely couldn't get going to google and typing in "kernel panic logs osx". It would have just been nice if, I dunno. It actually logged what was causing the panic in this instance. The other junk, just rambling in rage this morning. enotnert fucked around with this message at Mar 26, 2010 around 15:36 |
| # ? Mar 26, 2010 15:34 |
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enotnert posted:Let me make it coherent, mainly because I am in a "rage against the macs" mode today due to many of my professors wanting to replace their nice desktop iMacs with MBA's for whatever loving reason (status symbol) and then complain to me that the MBA doesn't do their matlab or maple work as quickly as the iMac did (not listening to the guy who is paid to help them make informed purchases). code:quote:Like stated, I'm just in a mac rage today (I loving hate mac book airs) quote:Don't get me wrong, I know I sounded coherent up there. I have a macbook that doesn't dual boot or anything. I use it for lugging to friends houses, or back to my parents house. I am in love with the big old naughty touchpad on it. Your rants still suck.
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 15:39 |
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minivanmegafun posted:Your rants still suck. Yes, they do.
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 15:49 |
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3 days of 'rage more pc boy'.. can I count this thread as poo poo I come across daily? Back on topic: The company Im working for now has about 80 sites around the world, with major datacenters in Hong Kong, London, Chicago, Omaha, and minor datacenters all over the place. I work at the central one where we maintain oversight over everything. Given that the CIO will literally strike anyone attempting to seriously argue against SOX policies, password policy is pretty strict (30 day manditory expiry, cant re-use any of the PW's from the last year, cant match similar patterns/common passwords, enforced complexity, etc..). Nearly every single day, someone manages to get past the enterprise helpdesk and ends up calling the global NOC saying they changed their password, cant remember what to, and how the PW policy is so -inconvenient-.  If remembering a new password each month is too hard, go get a new drat job 
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 18:22 |
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golgo13sf posted:I love getting kicked back to the home screen for apparently no reason on my phone. Oh I know there's a log dump of what went wrong somewhere on there, but seriously, just loving tell me. The reason behind this is, you don't need to see the error, the developer should, and does. You don't need to know that [object method] was sent to a deallocated instance: 0x5490f3.
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 19:13 |
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My boss decided to move all our virtual servers from one host to another today to do <some stupid poo poo> at 7am. Easy! Nope. All of the servers somehow got orphaned and are now stuck in limbo between vmware hosts. Last time I checked on him(4:30pm) he was recabling the entire server rack, not really sure why, both physical hosts were flagging errors and our SANS were giving config/disk errors on boot! I'm sure he'll have a fun weekend! 
Honey Im Homme fucked around with this message at Mar 26, 2010 around 20:02 |
| # ? Mar 26, 2010 19:59 |
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mpeg4v3 posted:One of my biggest gripes about OS X is how when there's a kernel panic, it only shows you that god damned "You have to restart your computer" in five different languages. No information, no error notices, no nothing. Just that god damned error message. I understand what they're going for; they want something easy to understand for general users and good looking as opposed to the BSOD. But come the hell on, at least a BSOD will tell you at least where the gently caress to start without having to dive into logs. Would it really be so damned hard to just put, in small text at the bottom, "Error: 0afc2853d" or something? I don't want to have to mess around with single user mode if restarting doesn't get me in to figure out what the hell caused it. I see it as perfectly sensible. Look at this thread and the ticket thread. How many times have techs bitched about users that call them up and insist on reading off the entire error rather than just doing the only useful thing they can do and just rebooting it? Those who have any ability to do something useful with it can view the logs, the rest of the world gets a simple prompt telling them to just reboot and get on with their day. If your system is so hosed that it's panicking on boot, you're going to need single-user mode or a boot disk to fix it anyways, so who cares if you need to go in to that to find out what went wrong?
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 21:55 |
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That's true, at least it'd shift the whining of "all you IT people ever do is tell us to 'turn it off and on again', you're so useless, blah blah" to the OS and give us a break 
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 22:18 |
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My Dell LCD at home has begun developing a yellow line or two on the right side when the monitor is cold. Once it's warmed up, the line disappears, but now I've noticed two lines when the monitor powers on, and it's the kind of problem that isn't likely to get better over time. The monitor came with a 3-year warranty, so I call Dell up to get a replacement. I first call at work and describe the issue, after explaining at length that the monitor does not have a service tag, but wasn't able to go through the troubleshooting steps from Sanjay's book because I wasn't in front of the monitor, so I said I would call back later. Rest of the day passes and I get home. I call Dell up again and start over with José. José is helpful and understands the issue when I describe it to him as the blue subpixels in that column not working when the monitor is cold. He gives me a case number and puts me on hold to transfer me to exchanges. "Exchanges" apparently means the global call queue, because after 10 minutes Vijay picks up and I start all over again. After a minute of explaining the monitor does not have a service tag, I give him the case number and the order number. He then tries to drag me through the same troubleshooting steps again and refuses to accept my repeated insistence that when you disconnect the display cable from the monitor, it goes into power save mode and does not go into the wandering color bars mode that older Dell monitors did. I explain multiple times about the blue subpixels and the monitor needs to be cold and so forth and he continues to tell me to disconnect the signal cable again because I didn't do it right the first time. I finally give up and just hang up because the last time I got into a protracted argument with some idiot in Dell's call center in Bangalore, it ended with a broken cell phone.
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 23:19 |
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brc64 posted:You realize that Vista had that from day 1, right? With one caveat: Vista didn't search the control panel from the start menu. Why I don't know, but the fact that 7 does removes pretty much the only major issue I had with Windows Search.
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 23:46 |
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The DDOS I'm combating passed a billion requests today. That's in 3 days for the curious. I feel like I should celebrate.
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 23:48 |
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LakesGuzzler posted:That's true, at least it'd shift the whining of "all you IT people ever do is tell us to 'turn it off and on again', you're so useless, blah blah" to the OS and give us a break We don't just turn it off and on again, we also make sure it's plugged in 
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| # ? Mar 26, 2010 23:49 |
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chutwig posted:My Dell LCD at home has begun developing a yellow line or two on the right side when the monitor is cold. Once it's warmed up, the line disappears, but now I've noticed two lines when the monitor powers on, and it's the kind of problem that isn't likely to get better over time. The monitor came with a 3-year warranty, so I call Dell up to get a replacement. I'm not normally one for subterfuge and deceit, except when it comes to tech support. Just lie. It should be pretty easy to figure out what they want, just tell them that.
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| # ? Mar 27, 2010 00:11 |
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Went to do a little spring cleaning on the San today, found a little gem of a folder... bout had an aneurysm over it as per policy is we arent to have music on the SAN, did a little digging and found it to be the CFO of the company, dont know whether to delete it or not. you decide File was 75gb
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| # ? Mar 27, 2010 00:12 |
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Moriar posted:http://fi.somethingawful.com/is/img156/9141/musicj.png Bad link  E: Ninja edit
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| # ? Mar 27, 2010 00:14 |
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haha I cant get it to work, and I dont want to piss the mod's off just yet so I edited it out.
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| # ? Mar 27, 2010 00:15 |
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| # ? May 19, 2013 10:34 |
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FISHMANPET posted:I'm not normally one for subterfuge and deceit, except when it comes to tech support. Just lie. It should be pretty easy to figure out what they want, just tell them that. I don't even know what they want. José was happy to send me to exchanges until he hosed up and put me in the wrong queue, and I thought it was all resolved when I got a case number and he took the notes. Dell tech support hurts like a fissure in my rear end.
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| # ? Mar 27, 2010 00:24 |
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