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kalleboo posted:No it won't. Windows XP by default does not come with a DVD decoder. You have to pay for one (CyberLink, InterVideo, etc), although if you buy an OEM PC you'll get one bundled on their crapware Windows restore disc. I would swear that's changed, but I can't find anything to back me up. Either way, my DVD drive came with a license for the software and installing ffdshow or similar will give me playback. It's still a single installation that does it all. I don't have to install 4 seperate things, one of which via command line, to get access to a DVD. If I bought my PC pre-assembled, like most people do, it would've been preinstalled and set up ahead of time.
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| # ? May 31, 2008 16:38 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 19:11 |
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Casao posted:If I bought my PC pre-assembled, like most people do, it would've been preinstalled and set up ahead of time.
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| # ? May 31, 2008 16:52 |
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kalleboo posted:Yeah, like if you had bought one of those Wal-mart Lindows PCs, you'd have linux DVD playback working just fine. So, your excuse is.... what? That if I had bought a crappy PC I could have DVD playback easily, or I could assemble my own PC and fight my way through DVD playback? You can buy good Windows PCs. You can get them without a ton of crap installed but with DVD playback working. You can build your own and install a single program to get working DVD playback of any kind. Your DVD drive, motherboard or possibly graphics card probably came with a copy of the software on an easy to use CD. I own more copies of PowerDVD than I know what to do with. It's not out of the box easy like OSX but it's still easier than Linux, and doesn't involve buying a bottom end PC. Why do they even pick a default media player that doesn't support menus? I mean, the most basic feature of DVDs beside actual playback and it doesn't support it. It's a big joke.
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| # ? May 31, 2008 17:05 |
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kalleboo posted:No it won't. Windows XP by default does not come with a DVD decoder. You have to pay for one (CyberLink, InterVideo, etc), although if you buy an OEM PC you'll get one bundled on their crapware Windows restore disc. Yeah, I deal with that more than most because I watch a lot of HDTV on my system, and that uses the same MPEG2 decoders DVD use. XP has none (but you can buy one from NVidia, CyberLink, etc). Vista Home Basic and Vista Business (the first version of Vista I used) also do not have MPEG2 decoders. The NVidia one doesn't work in Vista, so you'd have to buy the CyberLink one. Luckily Home Premium and Ultimate come with the Microsoft MPEG2 decoder, which is as good as the old NVidia and CyberLink ones. To further confuse things, NVidia and CyberLink say their MPEG2 decoders are *only* for Windows Media Player (even though they actually work in any app that wants to use them). I feel they would have more paying customers if they pointed out their MPEG2 decoders were general-purpose ones that work great with HDTV. When it comes to playing DVD, I've never had issues with it in Windows. I usually use something that decodes MPEG2 in software, and ever since Pentium MMX 233MHz/K6 300MHz systems, decoding it in software has been possible. I also purchased an MPEG2 decoder board back in 1998 (Creative Labs Dxr2 or something). I haven't bothered with using it recently, as I doubt it can handle the HD stuff, and it used VGA pass-through, which reduces video quality.
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| # ? May 31, 2008 17:10 |
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The DVD issue is a silly one all around. I have a lot of R1 discs and live in the UK, even the windows procedure is a pain in the arse. 1) Troll around rpc1.org or similar looking for a suitable firmware for my drive 2) Make a bootable DOS disk, boot into DOS and flash my drive, risking bricking it if I screwed up 3) Install PowerDVD 4) Install DVDGenie 5) Configure DVDGenie I haven't looked into getting region free BluRay yet, on Windows or Linux. What's the current status on that?
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| # ? May 31, 2008 17:21 |
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Lum posted:The DVD issue is a silly one all around. I have a lot of R1 discs and live in the UK, even the windows procedure is a pain in the arse. So you're complaining because you're trying to work outside of the rules of the system? I mean, they're lovely rules, but you're trying to break the system. What do you expect?
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| # ? May 31, 2008 17:27 |
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Casao posted:So you're complaining because you're trying to work outside of the rules of the system? It's annoying that there's no legal "buy this app and click install for DVDs" for linux, but that's how things work with minority OSes, and before you get into linux you have to be prepared for it. The first version of OS X didn't support DVDs either, and there were no third party solutions - you had to reboot into OS 9. kalleboo fucked around with this message at May 31, 2008 around 17:39 |
| # ? May 31, 2008 17:37 |
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kalleboo posted:Isn't running DVDs under linux with libdvdcss also working outside the system and breaking the rules? Which is exactly why it isn't included and configured by default, since in the USA it's illegal? Did I say they shouldn't include it and configure it by default? I specifically pointed out the drivers that can't be bundled are put up with a one-click button that downloads installs and configures them. There's no reason that can't be the case here. They include the script for it and it's in a hazy grey area as I understand it. The point is, the reasons don't matter. What matters is, people make claims about it being the equal of Windows in usability, but doing what would be a one or two step process on Windows ends up involving multiple package installs and command line work. It clearly isn't, and those claims are what piss me off.
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| # ? May 31, 2008 17:47 |
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Casao posted:So you're complaining because you're trying to work outside of the rules of the system? Give me libdvdcss out-of-the-box, and a big yellow warning the first time I run it.
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| # ? May 31, 2008 17:54 |
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flakeloaf posted:Decrypting a DVD violates the DMCA. Technically, the way the DMCA words it's crap, the US Government could sue any one who has ever purchased and used a stand-alone DVD player. The DMCA says that we can't get around copy protection schemes. It doesn't say that there is a pass for content copyright holders to bypass those schemes, either. So, technically, it's illegal for DRM content to be sold because it's bypassing copy protection schemes to play it back.  Ain't RIAA/MPAA laws wonderful?
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| # ? May 31, 2008 18:05 |
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flakeloaf posted:I don't give a poo poo. Constraints shouldn't automatically assume I'm both the US and a criminal; it's up to the users to realize they're using for a feature that's illegal in their country.
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| # ? May 31, 2008 18:15 |
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kalleboo posted:The DMCA also says "No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof". So it's also illegal to develop it, to distribute it or help people use it. So if Ubuntu did provide this facility in any way, simply downloading an ISO of Ubuntu would make you a criminal if you happened to live in the US. I'm quite sure the Ubuntu devs would like to avoid having all their American users arrested so they don't bundle the CSS stuff. Casao posted:So you're complaining because you're trying to work outside of the rules of the system? I was actually trying to point out the absurdity of the "waaah, DVD under linux is hard" complainers. Thank you for helping me out in this regard. Lum fucked around with this message at May 31, 2008 around 18:31 |
| # ? May 31, 2008 18:29 |
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God, I'm bitching a lot in this thread, but: Did you know Windows Mobile 6 only syncs with Outlook? Not Outlook Express, just Outlook. I understand why it doesn't support open standards apps like Thunderbird/Lightning/Sunbird, but it won't even sync with Vista's built in calendar, mail and contacts apps. There's not even a purchasable option to make it do so. Really. It doesn't sync with the standard apps in Microsoft's flagship OS. Did you know Outlook doesn't come with Windows Mobile 6 devices? It used to, but MS decided to stop including it. Some device vendors still do, but it's becoming uncommon. Outlook retails for $100. MS offers absolutely no other option. It's Outlook or nothing. Fortunately there are third party solutions. I'm using BirdieSync to sync with Thunderbird, and while it's not perfect it's worth the $30. I include this rant in this thread because it's a problem I see every loving day, and it pisses me off. Not only am I reminded of MS's jackhole behavior whenever I sync my WinMo phone, I have to wince when new users ask "How do I sync without Outlook?" every day on every WinMo forum.
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| # ? May 31, 2008 18:40 |
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Lum posted:So if Ubuntu did provide this facility in any way, simply downloading an ISO of Ubuntu would make you a criminal if you happened to live in the US. Alright, here's another one then. I'm trying to install the Sun JRE in Ubuntu. Since Sun is only distributing this in an RPM, I need something to read RPMs. Adept Installer has nothing (before you say "Adept sucks, use Synaptic", why are there 2 package management systems on the same OS?). So I have to go apt-get rpm. RPM at the command line and I get this: quote:/usr/java$ sudo rpm -iv jre-6u6-linux-i586.rpm Of course, every one of those commands exists in that path, but whatever. Keep in mind this is following, verbatim, Sun's installation instructions here: http://www.java.com/en/download/help/5000010500.xml#rpm Ok, so gently caress it, I'll see what Ubuntu says. http://www.ubuntugeek.com/how-to-in...-in-ubuntu.html quote:-Ubuntu:/usr/java$ sudo apt-get install sun-java6-jre sun-java6-plugin sun-java6-fonts Awesome. Those package names are old. Great. I could go on and on and on about how much of a loving pain in the rear end it is for me to try and do what is the simplest loving task in OS X or Windows, but I think you get the point. At home, I'd open Firefox, it would see I need a plugin, it would find it, point me to the site, I'd download it, run it, and be done. Here I got an "unknown plugin" and have to do all this poo poo manually. Even after I get JRE installed I have to create a symbolic link manually to the firefox plugin directory. When I migrated to OS X I thought Windows' typical installation of "double-click, yes, next next next next next next" was quaint compared to OS X's drag-to-apps installation. Linux installation on poo poo like this makes me long for Windows 95. Linux on the desktop is a tremendous joke for anyone who isn't at the very least, a PC hobbyist. kalleboo posted:The first version of OS X didn't support DVDs either, and there were no third party solutions - you had to reboot into OS 9. That was over 7 years ago. Using the average Linux distro is like going into the wayback machine on some of this poo poo. Zombie Dictator fucked around with this message at May 31, 2008 around 19:05 |
| # ? May 31, 2008 19:01 |
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Lum posted:I'm quite sure the Ubuntu devs would like to avoid having all their American users arrested so they don't bundle the CSS stuff. Not a linux-specific complaint, just a thing I come across regularly that pisses me off.
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| # ? May 31, 2008 19:17 |
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I can't speak for Ubuntu since I don't use it, but on Gentoo you can just do: emerge jre I didn't even have to do that, first java app I installed pulled in java for me. Not that I'm claiming Gentoo is a good choice for Linux on the Desktop for the masses, of course. I used to hate installing Java for windows because I never knew if I needed J2SE, J2EE, JRE, JDK or what the gently caress, that plus the lawsuit that removed the MS JVM from XP basically made it so you couldn't rely on people having Java any more, and trying to talk those people through actually getting Java was a pain in the arse. Thankfully I had a look just now and they seem to have sorted it out on the Windows side, finally.
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| # ? May 31, 2008 20:26 |
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Lum posted:I can't speak for Ubuntu since I don't use it, but on Gentoo you can just do: emerge jre As a side to this: Every other drat application made in Java has it's own distribution of the Java version that works best for it. URG. I don't need 14 installed versions of Java because 1.4.1 is different from 1.4.2 enough to gently caress your poo poo over! Having 212 "Java Needs Updating!" icons in the task bars at work makes me wanna scream.
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| # ? May 31, 2008 20:42 |
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Zombie Dictator posted:Alright, here's another one then. I'm trying to install the Sun JRE in Ubuntu. The Sun JRE is included in Ubuntu's multiverse repository, it only takes a few clicks in Synaptic to get it installed...
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| # ? May 31, 2008 22:17 |
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pockets posted:The Sun JRE is included in Ubuntu's multiverse repository, it only takes a few clicks in Synaptic to get it installed... It needs to be said. Why the gently caress are there two package managers for Ubuntu? Explain that away, keeping in mind Ubuntu claims to be things like an "Easy to use desktop distro" and "Linux for the masses" Choice is fine and dandy in a lot of cases. But the OS shouldn't include 3-4 choices for every basic function. It should pick the best one, include that and default it. Anything else should be hidden away in the bowels of their website for the nerds to get to.
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| # ? May 31, 2008 23:23 |
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Additionally, if you're looking to get converts from the Windows/Mac camp, you're saying "Package manager!" and these converts are going "What?" Seriously. That ain't really how the mainstream OSes do software installation, and while we can debate which method is better until we are blue in the face, there is a limit to what you can expect the average user to relearn when switching to a new operating system. Most of them are probably going to have a hard enough time picking up OpenOffice's idiosyncracies, let alone sorting through a bunch of repositories to track down Java or trying to figure out what a "package manager" is in the first place.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2008 00:34 |
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I think the divide comes from the fact that Linux software is free for the most part. We're so used to having to go out and buy stuff whenever we want to do something so the idea that there's this almost magical program that can download almost anything needs to be marketed or explained better. The funny thing is that if you charged people to use it, they might understand it better.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2008 00:47 |
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Casao posted:It needs to be said. Why the gently caress are there two package managers for Ubuntu? Explain that away, keeping in mind Ubuntu claims to be things like an "Easy to use desktop distro" and "Linux for the masses" One's simple to use with a user friendly interface the other's an advance user's paradise.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2008 01:06 |
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HPL posted:I think the divide comes from the fact that Linux software is free for the most part. We're so used to having to go out and buy stuff whenever we want to do something so the idea that there's this almost magical program that can download almost anything needs to be marketed or explained better. The funny thing is that if you charged people to use it, they might understand it better. Eh, I think Michael "I'm gonna charge users $49.99 for a CD with Firefox and OpenOffice.Org on it" Robertson hasn't really had great success with the Click 'N' Run system, which is a package manager that has both free and subscription service. I agree that it needs to be explained better. I think it's a great idea, and it's one thing I wish I understood better. But unfortunately, the default response for so many Linux questions is "Google LOL" or pointing them to the Ubuntu site when really, this is stuff that should be built-in, local help content. Better yet, it should be easier to use in the first place, either through better design or through wizards.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2008 06:12 |
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I don't understand what is the problem with package managers. I tried Linux for like two weeks and gave up, but that was one thing I had no trouble with whatsoever. I thought the whole setup was completely awesome. On the issue of there being two repositories, I can see how it might be better to have one, but is it really so hard to check the other, if the first doesn't have what you're looking for? Overall that may not be such a simple thing for the non-expert/non-enthusiast/grandma, but really, neither is finding and installing software on Windows.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2008 06:50 |
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Trying to get Ubuntu support can either be extremely easy if you have a common problem that's documented on the wiki, or next to impossible if it's not on the wiki or you're using remotely non-standard hardware. Because if you ask a question, you'll get one of the following stock responses: A: Told to look on the wiki, but not where. B: Given a wiki link that is only tangentially related to your problem, if at all. C: Told to read the manpage. D: A long-winded argument about why your way is wrong and another way is better. E: Bitched at for pasting three lines of text, which the ever-kind soul who is helping you via responses A-D must laboriously scroll past, which will take almost 1/10th of a second they can never possibly get back. F: Ignored utterly. Sitting in their support channel is a repeat of this pattern, all day. I don't know how other distributions fare. There are a few people that actually read and assist, but they're the minority.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2008 06:52 |
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Javid posted:Trying to get Ubuntu support can either be extremely easy if you have a common problem that's documented on the wiki, or next to impossible if it's not on the wiki or you're using remotely non-standard hardware. Linux would be great if they just got rid of the users. And by users, I of course mean the people who sit in the support channel or are fluent in linux nerdery.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2008 07:39 |
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hyperborean posted:I don't understand what is the problem with package managers. I tried Linux for like two weeks and gave up, but that was one thing I had no trouble with whatsoever. I thought the whole setup was completely awesome I really, really wish that there was some sort of alternative for Windows that didn't suck. There is AppUpdater, win-get, FileHippo's thing, and maybe one or two more, and they're all limited by a near-complete lack of software - they seem to have one or two dozen packages that they keep track of, and that's it. There is almost no command line software. And most of them are closed source and/or there is no support for creating your own repository, so you can't fix the problem. Appupdater actually does supposedly allow you to create your own repository, but its website is in  Comic Sans MS . Gah.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2008 07:46 |
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vlack posted:I really, really wish that there was some sort of alternative for Windows that didn't suck. Why? I just wish more software would auto-update. OSX has Sparkle framework, a nice library you can add on to any OSX software to add easy and consistant auto-update. I wish Windows had a parallel to this. More things need auto update, but I don't really see any need for a package manager.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2008 07:51 |
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Casao posted:Why? I just wish more software would auto-update. OSX has Sparkle framework, a nice library you can add on to any OSX software to add easy and consistant auto-update. I wish Windows had a parallel to this. More things need auto update, but I don't really see any need for a package manager. I wish less software would update automatically. You have no idea how many software upgrades were pushed automagically that loving broke something of mine, or plain erased settings. Sure, auto-update is convenient, but I shouldn't have to play disaster recovery every other week because some piece of poo poo software decided that it's auto-updatery matters more than anything the user is doing. I avoid all software in which auto-updating is mandatory. And I prefer to not utilize software that has an auto-update feature at all. Because, invariably, it runs as a seperate process that never loving goes away, even when you click the checkboxes that say "Leave me the hell alone, you god-forsaken app. You are two years old, no I don't want updates."
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| # ? Jun 1, 2008 13:42 |
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Arsten posted:I wish less software would update automatically. You have no idea how many software upgrades were pushed automagically that loving broke something of mine, or plain erased settings. That's not how Sparkle works and, I hope, that's not how a Windows version of it would. Runs in the same process, shows up when you start the app. Checks if there's a new version and, if there is, tells you and offers you a changelog and the options to Download Now, Check Again Later or Skip this version. If you want to download, it downloads in the background and waits. Once it's downloaded, you press the Install button and it updates the app and then relaunches. It's perfect, really.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2008 18:21 |
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(loosely IT-related) People who touch my screen enrage me, be it the laptop or a stationary screen. Everyone (well some people, but still) thinking they must point out a certain word or picture happily tries to touch the screen like a three years old. And then they react insulted when I politely attempt to hinder them.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2008 21:46 |
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And they don't notice anything wrong when the thing they're indicating turns into a kaleidoscope under the three tons of pressure they're putting on the screen with their filth-encrusted fingernail that's dripping with coffee and jizz. And, of course, when the monitor fails who do they call to replace it? Sigh.
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| # ? Jun 1, 2008 22:29 |
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I've got a couple: - Sharepoint will not let you right click in any editing window. At first I thought this was a limitation of the wiki functionality (which Microsoft themselves have pretty much said "Meh, it's there"), But no, it does it on any Sharepoint site whatsoever. Yes, I know how to use the keyboard shortcuts, but drat it, when I'm used to right clicking to do things, it's jarring to find that I can't do it, and have to mentally shift gears to do the keyboard shortcut. - Powerpoint won't leave my loving settings alone. For instance, if I'm doing text in a certain font size over multiple text boxes, there is no loving reason it should reset the text size back to 18 point. Same goes for shapes. If I'm using rectangles with no fill, for the love of gently caress, leave it alone! Don't change it until I tell you to! Admittedly, I'm somewhat new to both of these, but god drat it, when every other program I've used tend to use similar conventions, that's what I expect. Unless there's some reason to go against these that I'm just not grasping, leave me and my settings the gently caress alone!
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| # ? Jun 2, 2008 03:05 |
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Zombie Dictator posted:JAVA!!!1 I remember the first time I had to install Java on FreeBSD. In order to compile the JRE/JDK, I needed Java. Java requires Java to compile. 
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| # ? Jun 2, 2008 03:25 |
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timb posted:I remember the first time I had to install Java on FreeBSD. In order to compile the JRE/JDK, I needed Java. Java requires Java to compile. Kind of like how I was trying to install aladdin stuffit expander (or whatever it's called) on an eMac years ago and it only came in stuffit compressed format.
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| # ? Jun 2, 2008 03:41 |
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Suspicious posted:Kind of like how I was trying to install aladdin stuffit expander (or whatever it's called) on an eMac years ago and it only came in stuffit compressed format. If I recall, there was a self-extracting package available as well. you shoulda downloaded the .sea.hqx instead of .sit.hqx
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| # ? Jun 2, 2008 05:19 |
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timb posted:I remember the first time I had to install Java on FreeBSD. In order to compile the JRE/JDK, I needed Java. Java requires Java to compile. thelightguy posted:If I recall, there was a self-extracting package available as well. you shoulda downloaded the .sea.hqx instead of .sit.hqx kalleboo fucked around with this message at Jun 2, 2008 around 11:09 |
| # ? Jun 2, 2008 11:04 |
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ReverendHammer posted:- Powerpoint won't leave my loving settings alone. For instance, if I'm doing text in a certain font size over multiple text boxes, there is no loving reason it should reset the text size back to 18 point. Same goes for shapes. If I'm using rectangles with no fill, for the love of gently caress, leave it alone! Don't change it until I tell you to! Partial solutions to the specific issues you describe: Set the font size/type when nothing's selected -- that becomes the default. It's not the same as leaving it to what was last set, but you can at least get the right font and a reasonable size for new items instead of 24pt Times New Roman. For objects, draw some throwaway rectangle and style it with the fill/outline you want as defaults. Then, you right-click and "Set AutoShape Defaults" -- and that will be used for new objects.
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| # ? Jun 2, 2008 13:29 |
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Just typed up a 30 page report. Word 2007, gently caress you. I hate you. I love your ribbon but everything else is awful. Why do you make it so difficult to partially select a word? Why when I right click on a grammar mistake do you only sometimes show me a suggestion, and the rest of the time pretend there's no cute little underline there at all? Why do you freeze the interface when you're making a backup?? Aren't you threaded at all?? And lastly, why didn't you remind me to put my references back in before submitting the loving thing 
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| # ? Jun 2, 2008 13:46 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 19:11 |
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hyperborean posted:I don't understand what is the problem with package managers. I tried Linux for like two weeks and gave up, but that was one thing I had no trouble with whatsoever. I thought the whole setup was completely awesome. What if something isn't in a repository? One of my major Linux complaints are the multitude of file formats for application installation. In Windows you download an exe and you're done with it. OS X it's a dmg. With Linux you can get a .tar.bz, .rpm, .deb, .repo, and God forbid it has to be compiled from source code. I remember trying to install the newest version of Pidgin, because it wasn't in the repositories (they were a major release behind). They only give you yum packages. Great, now I need a yum package manager. What the gently caress? UNIFY YOUR INSTALLATION PROCESS YOU loving IDIOTS. At work, we used to have interdepartmental arguments about the superior packaging solution ("RPM sucks because of this." "Well, Debian can't do that right!" kind of poo poo). When it's a fight to get a standard installation process, you've already lost the fight.
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| # ? Jun 2, 2008 14:03 |
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