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The thing that nobody seems to remember is that Sonic was never really that good in the first place. Yeah, it was neat to experience BLAST PROCESSING!!! and haul rear end through the first couple of stages, but once you beat those first few stages hauling rear end would inevitably lead you to slam into enemies and die if you didn't know the stage layout already. You really had to slow down and do more platforming, and the controls weren't that great so when you weren't hauling rear end the game was clunky as hell. The super fast speed became a gimmick that you just used for running around loops and occasionally jumping really high. I loved Sonic 1-3 at the time, but in retrospect, it was mostly due to the great music and graphics that were awesome for the time. Plus all the bright colors and happy animals (not furry). Sonic Adventure was fun for the first few levels or so, until you were doing all this ridiculous walking around and talking to people and the god-awful story started to unfold. They should just make a really nice looking Sonic game with a fixed, 2.5D camera and figure out some way to use the Wii controls in a fun way, and reap some big fat profits from children (and man-children) who love bright colors and upbeat music. The emo teenage furry market can't be so big and lucrative that they have to keep pandering to them, can it?
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| # ? Jul 20, 2008 19:10 |
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| # ? Feb 09, 2010 13:44 |
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Adam Bowen posted:They should just make a really nice looking Sonic game with a fixed, 2.5D camera They're actually going for that with the Daytime portions of Unleashed, if you check out some of the preview media. Also, the original 3 Sonic games were fantastic and still are.
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| # ? Jul 20, 2008 19:18 |
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Plom Bar posted:They're actually going for that with the Daytime portions of Unleashed, if you check out some of the preview media. They always sort of do it but they can never actually bring themselves to do a whole game of it. Most of the post-genesis Sonic games are defined by having parts with Sonic that are mildly enjoyable at worst, mixed in with lots of other characters that are awful and have no place in a Sonic game. The problem is that a good chunk of the Sonic fanbase thinks that driving around in a truck shooting things as Shadow is about as good as it gets, so you get games like this.
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| # ? Jul 20, 2008 19:21 |
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Plom Bar posted:They're actually going for that with the Daytime portions of Unleashed, if you check out some of the preview media. yeah, I just don't understand how they can finally realize that what I described is what people want from a sonic game, and then still have someone say "what if he became a WEREWOLF at night!!! that would be awesome!" and actually run with the idea.
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| # ? Jul 20, 2008 19:22 |
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Adam Bowen posted:The thing that nobody seems to remember is that Sonic was never really that good in the first place.  That's like saying A Link to the Past wasn't good. Or Tetris. Or Super Metroid.
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| # ? Jul 20, 2008 19:23 |
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Ego Piano posted:They always sort of do it but they can never actually bring themselves to do a whole game of it. Actually, I'm pretty certain this is the first time anything like this has surfaced. 2.5d is a relatively new concept for developers. Well, not quite new, seeing as the very first 3D platformers were basically just 2.5d (Clockwork Knight, for example), but then Mario 64 came along and suddenly EVERY platform game had to be fully 3D with a full 360 degree range of motion, and only now are we finally realizing that this is not the perfect setup for every game.
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| # ? Jul 20, 2008 19:29 |
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Simmerl posted:
I personally enjoyed the 3D sonic games more then the 2D sonic games. I have never played the 2D sonic games 
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| # ? Jul 20, 2008 19:31 |
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Ego Piano posted:They always sort of do it but they can never actually bring themselves to do a whole game of it. Most of the post-genesis Sonic games are defined by having parts with Sonic that are mildly enjoyable at worst, mixed in with lots of other characters that are awful and have no place in a Sonic game. The problem is that a good chunk of the Sonic fanbase thinks that driving around in a truck shooting things as Shadow is about as good as it gets, so you get games like this. I used to think like this, but it isn't THAT big of a chunk as you think. Just think about Sega's history, and you should realize how they've been appealing to the wrong public.
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| # ? Jul 20, 2008 19:34 |
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Do they know how much goddamn money they would make if they just made a beautiful next-gen 2D Sonic game, bare-bones and with the focus being on great level design like in the 90s? It's like they want to fail. Working at Sega must be like slamming your dick in a car door over and over, hoping that it'll start feeling good any minute now. Edit: Also the E3 stage demo link is wrong, it goes to the producer interview. You can find it if you google "Sonic Unleashed E3 Stage Demo", though. cloudnine fucked around with this message at Jul 20, 2008 around 19:38 |
| # ? Jul 20, 2008 19:35 |
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cloudnine posted:Edit: Also the E3 stage demo link is wrong, it goes to the producer interview. You can find it if you google "Sonic Unleashed E3 Stage Demo", though. Ah, thank you. It's fixed now.
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| # ? Jul 20, 2008 20:11 |
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A hundred gold doubloons to the man who can find the fanfiction each of these games is based off of.
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| # ? Jul 20, 2008 21:19 |
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Heath posted:A hundred gold doubloons to the man who can find the fanfiction each of these games is based off of. Please don't. You're about to unleash a monster. You have no idea. Quickly, edit that post.
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| # ? Jul 20, 2008 21:25 |
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Elentor posted:Please don't. You're about to unleash a monster. You have no idea.  Click here for the full 677x831 image. Footboy fucked around with this message at Jul 20, 2008 around 22:29 |
| # ? Jul 20, 2008 22:23 |
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Regarding Unleashed, I like the look of it. It has a nice art style, some nice music, looks fast and the 3D/2.5D stuff looks cool. As for the werewolf thing, I'm willing to give it a chance, it looks like God of War and that's not a bad thing. The blue/purple demon things look cool too. As for Sonic and the Black Knight, Secret Rings was okay right? I haven't played it yet but it should probably be similar. Odd that Wii gets that and Unleashed though. The sword makes me think of Rocket Knight Adventure, and if Konami won't give us a new one, I want to see what Sega does.
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| # ? Jul 20, 2008 22:31 |
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Adam Bowen posted:The thing that nobody seems to remember is that Sonic was never really that good in the first place. Yeah, it was neat to experience BLAST PROCESSING!!! and haul rear end through the first couple of stages, but once you beat those first few stages hauling rear end would inevitably lead you to slam into enemies and die if you didn't know the stage layout already. You really had to slow down and do more platforming, and the controls weren't that great so when you weren't hauling rear end the game was clunky as hell. The super fast speed became a gimmick that you just used for running around loops and occasionally jumping really high. Not sure if I agree here, while I admit that the "good" Sonic games never really had the depth of Super Mario 3 or World, I always felt that the gameplay and level design really made them some of the most unique and fun platformers at the time. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think something like a platformer that let you go really fast had been done before Sonic rolled around. Of course the ridiculously stylish graphics didn't really hurt the early Sonic games, either. In my opinion a good way of measuring how good the Sonic games really were is counting the amount of clones they spawned; I don't think there was even a single good one among them.
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| # ? Jul 20, 2008 22:42 |
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Sonic Deconstructed This was posted in the LP thread, and I found it extremely interesting. If you take the time to read it, you can see how the new sonic game looks like it will still suck because it (at least to me) looks like it relies too heavily on devices to keep the player at "over-clock" speed, and has too much scripted action. And that's not even getting into the loving were-hog debacle. While reading this and seeing that the modern homing attack slows down the game every time an enemy must be attacked, I thought about what could be done with a game where you play as a ninja who runs fast. If you could play as some badass ninja that regularly defies gravity by going super fast, and had a sword swipe that had a large swing radius that didn't slow your momentum at all when you swung at enemies who all died in one hit...  gently caress, maybe it WILL be good (and hell will freeze over).
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| # ? Jul 20, 2008 22:51 |
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BizarroAzrael posted:Regarding Unleashed, I like the look of it. It has a nice art style, some nice music, looks fast and the 3D/2.5D stuff looks cool. As for the werewolf thing, I'm willing to give it a chance, it looks like God of War and that's not a bad thing. The blue/purple demon things look cool too. Secret Rings was a terrible game. The gameplay was broken and glitchy.
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| # ? Jul 20, 2008 23:04 |
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Friendly Factory posted:Secret Rings was a terrible game. The gameplay was broken and glitchy. This, also the level design sucked and the game made you play the same the level for a long time to unlock the boss and it had some RPG poo poo and it sucked.
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| # ? Jul 20, 2008 23:12 |
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Secret Rings is difficult to really enjoy, but by gum I somehow found a way. For all of its numerous flaws, there was something there that kept me coming back to it again and again, as trying as that is for the first few hours. The game doesn't really pick up steam until you've leveled up Sonic's abilities substantially, a process that is both tedious and cumbersome in its execution. It's difficult to blame players for not having that much patience for a game that's supposed to be about going fast.
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| # ? Jul 20, 2008 23:16 |
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BizarroAzrael posted:The sword makes me think of Rocket Knight Adventure, and if Konami won't give us a new one, I want to see what Sega does.  That game was awesome! I heard a lot of the people at Treasure worked on it too. A bit off topic, but does anyone know if it's sequel "Sparkster" was any good?Back on topic: I'm really hoping they base the gameplay on Secret Rings, rather than making some half-assed hack and slash game from scratch.
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| # ? Jul 21, 2008 01:46 |
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Ryanbomber posted:I love this. The worst thing about Sonic is the whole "mouth on the side of his face" thing with how he's drawn and rendered nowadays. It was acceptable back when you only ever saw him from the side or smirking but now that he's talking and moving around in 3D and cartoons good God is it infuriatingly terrible looking.
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| # ? Jul 21, 2008 02:12 |
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Sonic Adventure, a 3-d game for the Dreamcast, shows that Sonic can be both 3-d and fantastic. What the gently caress, Sega?
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| # ? Jul 21, 2008 02:17 |
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I used to be big into Sonic when I was a kid, this new game with the regular/werewolf thing looks awesome
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| # ? Jul 21, 2008 03:12 |
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Hamburglar posted:Sonic Adventure, a 3-d game for the Dreamcast, shows that Sonic can be both 3-d and fantastic. What the gently caress, Sega? Even that was a step-down from the Genesis games. I'm not sure why so many people still care about Sonic. I mean yeah, he was a huge part of my childhood as well, but there has been so little to care about for so drat long ... how can anyone still be this excited every time it happens? Those charts are so drat accurate, and yet here we are dissecting the latest terrible decision by Sega (A WEREHOG? SONIC WITH A SWORD? ARE YOU loving KIDDING ME??) and hoping for the best anyway. Someone made a comment on page one about "Well they probably included the Werehog sections to balance out the fast-paced Sonic levels. It's smart!" gently caress YOU. This the same logic Sega and Sonic Team have been using since the Dreamcast games, and it has ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS FAILED MISERABLY! Say what you want, but Secret Rings for the Wii is the only Sonic game even remotely enjoyable since the first Adventure, and even those two were constantly teetering between totally awesome and total poo poo. gently caress I hated 360, the loading times were embarassing and the story (the fact that there was a story annoys me) was worse than most fanfic. The story in Sonic has always been terrible. Always. Robotnick and Tails and all these dumb animals are just loving stupid. Just as boring and stupid as loving Princess Peach getting captured all the time, but with worse gameplay to go along with it. Mario Galaxy was fantastic, even with a same-ole story that no one gives two shits about, WHY DOES SEGA HATE THE WORLD SO drat MUCH? It seems like they take all the worst parts of the previous games ... and then mate them to make even worse experiences involving ever-more-terrible characters doing ever-more-monotonous taks for the sad videogame-playing public. Rant finished. Sorry. Spaceman Jax posted:I used to be big into Sonic when I was a kid, this new game with the regular/werewolf thing looks awesome You are part of the problem. Nothing about Sonic becoming a "werehog" looks remotely awesome.
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| # ? Jul 21, 2008 03:14 |
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It is NOT a "werehog." "Were" means "man," so a "werehog" would be a man transformed into a hedgehog... or maybe just a hog. It would technically be a "wolfhog" or "hedgewolf." 
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| # ? Jul 21, 2008 03:19 |
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You are part of the problem. The problem with Sonic the Hedgehog. You son of a bitch
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| # ? Jul 21, 2008 03:21 |
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CrushedB posted:It is NOT a "werehog." "Were" means "man," so a "werehog" would be a man transformed into a hedgehog... or maybe just a hog. Who said anything about a wolf? Way Past Cool! fucked around with this message at Feb 04, 2010 around 05:53 |
| # ? Jul 21, 2008 03:22 |
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I used to love Sonic but Sonic Heroes(followed by the announcement of the Shadow game) killed it for me. A good Sonic game would be a nice treat but Sega has fallen apart. How many other series went from must buy to avoid at all costs?
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| # ? Jul 21, 2008 03:42 |
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I haven't cared about Sonic in a while. I remember deriving a little bit of enjoyment for A1 and A2, but that was the last time I ever really enjoyed one of his games. To reiterate- what the gently caress, Sega? They almost had the right idea, and then just threw everything out in favor of :?:NEWCHARACTERS:?:. I'm not holding my breath on this- Sega hasn't really given a reason for me to do so.
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| # ? Jul 21, 2008 04:54 |
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I keep on telling myself that the werewolf angle is only there so that Sonic can turn into a werewolf, and then kill half of the annoying rear end characters ripping them limb from limb to reset the series before all of the horrible storylines. But in all fairness, Sonic still has potential. I don't know if it's on a 3D platform though. Sonic has had some mild success in attempting to do sonic in 3D, Sonic Adventure I think showed a little bit of that, and Adventure 2 and Heroes, while not great, still had their moments. The game still had it's issues, the 3D environments did pose a new challenge in just randomally running off. And that's part of the reason for Sonic having issues: the new frustration of falling off the 3d Platforms in ways that didn't see possible at times. Now there were new things that had to be taken into account, having to stop to complete a "task" (maybe not in the normal task idea, but you probably know what i mean, finding ways to get past an obstacle or destroying crates or whatnot.) They need to stop trying to one-up themselves. Stop adding on characters, stop adding on ridculous story plots, and stop trying to add on to Sonic. Keep it Simple. I see the new Black Knight and I wonder "why in the hell does Sonic need a Sword?" It almost was like when they gave Shadow his own game and gave him a gun. Sonic is about speed, regardless of what people say he's involved into. It's about jumping at the right time, hitting enemies at the right time and getting through the stage at a blazing speed. While Sonic and The Secret Rings had several issues, I honestly thought that SEGA was taking a right step with that game. If they had pulled off the sensitive controls I think it would worked. And now that I've said that, I'm going to go play Sonic Rush.
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| # ? Jul 21, 2008 06:08 |
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So this would be a good time to start an argument about how terrible the name 'Eggman' is, right?
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| # ? Jul 21, 2008 09:15 |
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I don't get the whole "SONIC THE HEDGEHOGS ON GENESIS WERE UNTOUCHABLE MASTERPIECES" stuff but sweet jesus you're delusional if you think any of these goddamn sonic games are going to be good.
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| # ? Jul 21, 2008 09:24 |
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I think The Dark Brotherhood looks interesting enough, but I have trouble getting past the fact that it's a turn-based RPG about a character whose gimmick is speed. It just sounds like "Assassin's Creed Mini Golf" or "F-Zero Majong" or "Persona 3 Flag Football" to me. I'm still going to try it, though.
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| # ? Jul 21, 2008 09:47 |
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Sega officially announces Sonic and the Black Knight In a nutshell: It's a sequel to Secret Rings' storybook theme, only this time it's the King Arthur saga, not 1001 Nights. And it's a SEGA PR posted:fast-paced adventure that gamers of all ages will enjoy
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| # ? Jul 21, 2008 12:01 |
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Zenzirouj posted:So this would be a good time to start an argument about how terrible the name 'Eggman' is, right? Ehh, it might look awkward on paper but it's pronounced 'Ro-bot-nik' so it's all good.
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| # ? Jul 21, 2008 12:09 |
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CloseFriend posted:"Persona 3 Flag Football" to me. But yeah, I'm... not really clear on how a Sonic RPG is going to work. My money is on "Lot of RPG, not much Sonic".
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| # ? Jul 21, 2008 12:16 |
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KyroCilliani posted:I don't get the whole "SONIC THE HEDGEHOGS ON GENESIS WERE UNTOUCHABLE MASTERPIECES" stuff but sweet jesus you're delusional if you think any of these goddamn sonic games are going to be good. Uh, because the Genesis Sonics/Sonic CD were good, solid games that left positive memories in everyone minds and didn't have any glaring flaws? Just because people don't like the 3D games doesn't mean the old games retroactively suck
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| # ? Jul 21, 2008 12:54 |
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I know sonic games have never been known for they story, but a were-sonic, come on... this just seems a little absurd. I have to say, when I first saw the first half of the information about Unleashed, I was really excited, becasue it looked fast paced and fun (like a working secret rings). And then the were-thing popped up and I was just thinking "you have to be kidding me." I'm not saying that its going to be a good game, but if they work at taking the best from the 3-D sonic games (the DC adventures) and incorperate that into the 3-D were-thing parts and then just create enjoyable fast paced, semi-classic 2.5-D action for daytime, then I would say it has potential. ngeunit1 fucked around with this message at Jul 21, 2008 around 15:20 |
| # ? Jul 21, 2008 13:26 |
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Zereth posted:But yeah, I'm... not really clear on how a Sonic RPG is going to work. My money is on "Lot of RPG, not much Sonic". I'm hoping that it'll be something along the lines of Mario RPG. Take a generic RPG with normal characters and enemies, and then just paint the Sonic setting onto it. If it's going to be turn based, you could do this with almost any franchise and it would play ok. This is not to say that Mario RPG was generic - they painted Mario onto a really drat good RPG, but you get the idea. This raises the question of why make it Sonic at all, and the answer is Sega likes money. Also, people, WEREhog. W-E-R-E. Not "ware" And for CrushedB, while you're right that werehog doesn't make any sense when you break it down, you should be complaining to Sega, not us. During the E3 video the demonstrator of the game (and the in game text itself) referred to the werehog form.
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| # ? Jul 21, 2008 13:35 |
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T0MSERV0 posted:I'm hoping that it'll be something along the lines of Mario RPG. Take a generic RPG with normal characters and enemies, and then just paint the Sonic setting onto it. If it's going to be turn based, you could do this with almost any franchise and it would play ok. This is not to say that Mario RPG was generic - they painted Mario onto a really drat good RPG, but you get the idea. Sonic's gimmick is "running really fast" and I just don't see how that will translate into an RPG at all. Still, even if it's just an RPG with Sonic characters pasted onto it it'll beat things like Sonic 2006.
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| # ? Jul 21, 2008 14:25 |
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