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TwoDogs1Cup posted:He wouldn't have been killed off if it wasn't cancelled right? I'm sure I read that Joss has changed his tune on it a few times, Wes would have still been around but possibly trapped as a ghost like Spike was.
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| # ? Aug 6, 2012 00:17 |
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| # ? May 25, 2013 04:13 |
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Rhyno posted:I refuse to spoiler a show that ended so long ago. But it's stated in the comic, subtly, that he does end up with her in the afterlife by Cordelia's little wind-blowing at Angel when he's being pissy thinking about it. I think Fred's death equals Wesley's, but as I liked Fred more and have strong ties to "You Are My Sunshine," that death scene hit the nail in the head for me. I was dying just watching her say, "Why do I have to-?" and just croaks. 
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| # ? Aug 6, 2012 00:35 |
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Pan Dulce posted:But it's stated in the comic, subtly, that he does end up with her in the afterlife by Cordelia's little wind-blowing at Angel when he's being pissy thinking about it. The IDW Angel comics are poo poo and should be ignored. They only vaguely followed the original plot for Season 6. And besides that, the plan in S6 was to bring Fred back and she and Illyria would coexist from that point on.
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| # ? Aug 6, 2012 00:37 |
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TwoDogs1Cup posted:Ok, so what was the hardest Whedon death for ya'll? Joyce Summers is my #1. Wash is a close second. I'm a leaf on the wind. He almost made it  Wes would have been worse except I was already expecting multiple deaths in the series finale so it wasn't. Fred's was worse than his due to the fact that I really didn't expect her to be killed off. I should have known better.
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| # ? Aug 6, 2012 00:40 |
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Cordy is a tough one, since she's basically dead from the moment she's dumped back on Earth by the Powers That Be.
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| # ? Aug 6, 2012 03:38 |
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hope and vaseline posted:Buffybot: Oh Spike, you're the big bad! You're the big bad! My favorite line.
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| # ? Aug 6, 2012 03:46 |
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TheBigBad posted:My favorite line. That'll put marzipan in your pie plate bingo!
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| # ? Aug 6, 2012 04:15 |
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Rhyno posted:Joss has changed his tune on it a few times, Wes would have still been around but possibly trapped as a ghost like Spike was. IIRC in the After The Fall comics it's revealed he had a "lifetime contract" similar to Lilah's in the season 4 finale.
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| # ? Aug 6, 2012 06:24 |
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There's some nice foreshadowing in Chosen for Spike showing up in S5 of Angel when Buffy says "You know, one of these days, I'm just gonna put you two in a room and let you rassle it out." Gotta love Buffy's reaction to seeing this 
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| # ? Aug 6, 2012 19:05 |
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RembrandtQEinstein posted:Wesley was responsible for him losing his son. His son that was now going to be raised in the worst of the hell dimensions. It was completely understandable. The "Angel tries to smother Wes" scene always struck me as off. Am I missing something? It comes during the darkest stretch of the show. Black poo poo, man. Angel has good reason, as it were, to want to kill Wes. And he doesn't? He let's orderlies drag him away? If Angel really wanted Wes dead, he'd be dead in a snap (o' the neck). No one could stop him. That he doesn't kill Wes shows his heart's not really into it. Right?
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 01:06 |
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I always liked Xander in the high school years of the show, because I think he was still somewhat sympathetic. Teenaged boy, occasional (or frequent) douchey behaviors almost a reflex, etc etc. He reminded me a lot of the geeky dudes I hung out with who just hadn't had a chance to find themselves and grow out a lot of their worst impulses yet, and I was fine with that, and in the meantime I still found the character funny. Then the show went on and Xander just...didn't grow out of his worst impulses. Instead, they got worse, and the character increasingly had less and less to do. The cast expanded to include new and more mature characters who grew on me, and that reflected poorly on Xander's not-new, not-improved character. Also, the challenges Buffy faced got bigger and bigger, and while she, Willow, and Giles grew to meet them, Xander just...didn't. I found out much later that the actor was having increasingly out-of-control substance abuse issues and I will always wonder how much of that played into pulling the character back out of the narrative. Always seemed like a waste of a lot of potential, both for the fictional person and the real person. Dawn and Tara both grew on me a lot after their initial handful of episodes. I agree with whoever said Tara was way more interesting when she was apart from Willow, though. And by the end of the series, as she got less whiny and more clever, Dawn was pretty awesome. I always loved it when everyone tried to sideline her to keep her out of danger and she would somehow find her way back to the fight anyway. I mean, by the last season, she was the same age Buffy had been when the show started, and despite not having superpowers, it always seemed a little funny to me that they still treated her like a liability. I mean, season 1 Buffy was the only one in a pretty large cast with superpowers herself, right? Clem 4eva though, seriously
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 03:31 |
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I problems with Xander were basically my problems with all of Buffy. What's excusable for a 16-year-old high school student gets less and less excusable as the years go on. Especially when these young adults are under such stressful and character making conditions and experiences that they should arguably be maturing faster than the average post high school young adult. I think there was something kind of odd about characters like Riley and Tara who walked into this world already feeling like more mature adults than the main cast. I don't know, Buffy just never really felt like it grew up to me. A lot of high school based shows have that problem. They work until the time comes when they naturally have to evolve, but a lot of shows struggle to do that or reject it because they're worried their audience isn't growing up with them so they just get stuck in a stage of arrested development. Its why I took to Angel and really enjoyed Cordelia's maturation on it from her high school character on Buffy to the tortured champion/mature den mother figure who then banged her surrogate so... ok... bad things too. redshirt posted:The "Angel tries to smother Wes" scene always struck me as off. Am I missing something? It comes during the darkest stretch of the show. Black poo poo, man. Angel has good reason, as it were, to want to kill Wes. And he doesn't? He let's orderlies drag him away? I always interpreted it as "He understandably wants to kill Wes for what he's done, but there's enough understanding of Wes' reasoning and their friendship that holds him back from doing it properly." Because yes, if Angel really wanted to kill Wes then Wes would be dead. Angel was just acting emotionally and sending a message.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 03:40 |
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Thought I'd leave this here (pics of Much Ado About Nothing): http://www.hitfix.com/news/first-lo...o-about-nothing This is such a crazy year for Joss. The Avengers and this could not be more different.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 04:18 |
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Amy Acker = still gorgeous.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 04:23 |
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Same could not be said for Nathan. Black and white does not do that man favours.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 05:03 |
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His face constantly looks like it's trying to go in two directions at once.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 05:06 |
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I am only 9 episodes into Buffy season 5 - am I supposed to think it's as good as I do? I think it's brilliant, I am completely befuddled as to how the show got this good, this quickly. I am completely amazed by the season so far.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 05:38 |
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:I am only 9 episodes into Buffy season 5 - am I supposed to think it's as good as I do? I think it's brilliant, I am completely befuddled as to how the show got this good, this quickly. I am completely amazed by the season so far. Season five is my absolute favourite. The right mix of arcing and standalone content, it builds really well, a great new setting (the magic shop), and good new directions for a lot of the characters. One of the most satisfying payoffs, too.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 07:38 |
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I think I remember Joss mentioning that, for at least a brief period of time, it was meant to be the last season. Aside from missing out on a few good moments (and the musical) I don't know that that would have been such a bad thing.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 08:52 |
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STAC Goat posted:I problems with Xander were basically my problems with all of Buffy. What's excusable for a 16-year-old high school student gets less and less excusable as the years go on. Especially when these young adults are under such stressful and character making conditions and experiences that they should arguably be maturing faster than the average post high school young adult. I think there was something kind of odd about characters like Riley and Tara who walked into this world already feeling like more mature adults than the main cast. That was my read on it too - Angel was too self-conflicted to murder him proper. Even if Angel wanted Wes to suffer before killing him (suffocation instead of quickly snapping his neck) it's not like he couldn't easily overpower the orderlies or come back and try again. That ending was incredible; I could barely believe my eyes the first time I watched it. Also, Season 4 Cordy wasn't really Cordy so that shouldn't count.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 12:21 |
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:I am only 9 episodes into Buffy season 5 - am I supposed to think it's as good as I do? I think it's brilliant, I am completely befuddled as to how the show got this good, this quickly. I am completely amazed by the season so far. Season 5 is really, really good. Gets better once Dawn stops acting like a small child. Thanks for whoever pointed out that the writers originally wrote her as one and didn't bother changing it when Michelle was cast, that helps explain a lot.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 12:45 |
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atomicgeek posted:...Then the show went on and Xander just...didn't grow out of his worst impulses. Instead, they got worse, and the character increasingly had less and less to do. The cast expanded to include new and more mature characters who grew on me, and that reflected poorly on Xander's not-new, not-improved character. Also, the challenges Buffy faced got bigger and bigger, and while she, Willow, and Giles grew to meet them, Xander just...didn't. I found out much later that the actor was having increasingly out-of-control substance abuse issues and I will always wonder how much of that played into pulling the character back out of the narrative. Always seemed like a waste of a lot of potential, both for the fictional person and the real person. I see where you're coming from, but I disagree. Xander is the ordinary guy of the show - he's not strong, he's not bright and he doesn't have any super powers, but he's surrounded by people who do, day after day. It seems like he has a sort of existential crisis when his friends go off to college and he's left living in a [his uncle's?] basement, unemployed and useless. But by Season 5, he has a job and he gets a promotion ("The Replacement"). Other than his relationship with Anya, he doesn't really feature much because the world of construction doesn't make for particularly interesting Buffy stories (as that one Season 6 episode showed), but he's moving forward even as Buffy is going backward in her own life. Again, there's not much in Season 6, apart from the wedding and saving the world that's specifically Xander-related, but by Season 7 he has (it seems) got at least one more promotion and is doing pretty well for himself. Also, bear in mind that by the end of Season 7, Willow has been rewarded for her season-6-long-gently caress-up by being turned into some sort of embodiment of Good-ness (with a new girlfriend for the ride), Buffy has closed the Hellmouth despite being a petulant snot for most of the season, Spike has seen his Christ-complex get validated by a Stockholm-Syndromed Buffy (and he in turn shits up Season 5 of Angel) and even Faith has been busted out of jail and basically gotten away with it. Xander, though, has lost an eye. Apart from Anya (and that was more Joss being a snot), he's the only one of the 'main' characters who suffers a net loss from the season.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 12:59 |
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kingturnip posted:I see where you're coming from, but I disagree. Xander is the ordinary guy of the show - he's not strong, he's not bright and he doesn't have any super powers, but he's surrounded by people who do, day after day. It seems like he has a sort of existential crisis when his friends go off to college and he's left living in a [his uncle's?] basement, unemployed and useless. Well he was only being a snot because Emma Caulfield was being a snot first. If I remember correctly she spent that season trying to get out of her contract so she could become a big movie star, something she still hasn't done. I've enjoyed some of her projects since then(Bandwagon and TiMer were really good) but it's clear she really resents being remembered solely as Anya and it's really irritating that she seems so ungrateful. As opposed to the entire cast of Firefly who all still talk about the show as one of the greatest parts of their lives. Emma also said once on her tumblr blog thing that she doesn't like that she's most famous for something that she barely remembers being a part of. Kind of a weird comment for something that was only 10 years ago.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 14:59 |
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Epi Lepi posted:Well he was only being a snot because Emma Caulfield was being a snot first. If I remember correctly she spent that season trying to get out of her contract so she could become a big movie star, something she still hasn't done. I've enjoyed some of her projects since then(Bandwagon and TiMer were really good) but it's clear she really resents being remembered solely as Anya and it's really irritating that she seems so ungrateful. As opposed to the entire cast of Firefly who all still talk about the show as one of the greatest parts of their lives. Emma also said once on her tumblr blog thing that she doesn't like that she's most famous for something that she barely remembers being a part of. Kind of a weird comment for something that was only 10 years ago. The only person that could possily not remember their time on Buffy is Nicholas Brendon and that is not due to time. It also is the reason his role in season 7 was so small and he blew up.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 15:03 |
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Xander was always ok with me due to how he threw himself into dangerous situations if he had to regardless of his lack of superpowers. It was also awesome when we wielded his "commando" or construction skills.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 15:05 |
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RembrandtQEinstein posted:Season 5 is really, really good. Gets better once Dawn stops acting like a small child. Thanks for whoever pointed out that the writers originally wrote her as one and didn't bother changing it when Michelle was cast, that helps explain a lot. I'm aaalmost rid of Riley, it's oh so exciting.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 15:10 |
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EddieDean posted:Season five is my absolute favourite. The right mix of arcing and standalone content, it builds really well, a great new setting (the magic shop), and good new directions for a lot of the characters. I have always said that the Buffy season 5 finale was the best series finale I have ever seen. The fact that the show went on for 2 more seasons does not change my view of that.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 17:18 |
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In my opinion the season 4 finale is the best episode of the entire series
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 17:41 |
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thedouche posted:Xander was always ok with me due to how he threw himself into dangerous situations if he had to regardless of his lack of superpowers. It was also awesome when we wielded his "commando" or construction skills. Riley's story in Season Four, minus his job at College and love interest with Buffy was originally meant for Xander, building off his military and demon knowledge. I wish they had gone ahead with this, ot would've made the Initiative much more interesting and personal.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 18:06 |
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PriorMarcus posted:Riley's story in Season Four, minus his job at College and love interest with Buffy was originally meant for Xander, building off his military and demon knowledge. I wish they had gone ahead with this, ot would've made the Initiative much more interesting and personal.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 18:34 |
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Oasx posted:In my opinion the season 4 finale is the best episode of the entire series An absurd question, but I really enjoyed the idea of a coda. I enjoy anything where a show tinkers with the formula (Hush, the musical episode, The Body). In that case, I enjoyed that the last 15 minutes of the season were not a violent confrontation followed by a bonding montage.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 18:37 |
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:Which one is the season 4 finale? The dream episode
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 18:38 |
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Epi Lepi posted:Well he was only being a snot because Emma Caulfield was being a snot first. If I remember correctly she spent that season trying to get out of her contract so she could become a big movie star, something she still hasn't done. I've enjoyed some of her projects since then(Bandwagon and TiMer were really good) but it's clear she really resents being remembered solely as Anya and it's really irritating that she seems so ungrateful. As opposed to the entire cast of Firefly who all still talk about the show as one of the greatest parts of their lives. Emma also said once on her tumblr blog thing that she doesn't like that she's most famous for something that she barely remembers being a part of. Kind of a weird comment for something that was only 10 years ago. I dont think you can assume or attribute her behavior to just that. She's gone through a wicked divorce and loss on top of not launching into a movie career during this period. For some its enough to do good work and not spend the rest of your life paying homage to what was essentially a job. It may be smarter to pay homage, but not everyone is all that bright. I think she did a fantastic job as Anya. Loved that character a great deal by the end of it all.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 18:40 |
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:Which one is the season 4 finale? Restless, the episode where they get attacked in their dreams. I just think it perfectly sums up who the characters are.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 18:44 |
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Oasx posted:In my opinion the season 4 finale is the best episode of the entire series Seconded. Season 5's finale is pretty solid though. PriorMarcus posted:Riley's story in Season Four, minus his job at College and love interest with Buffy was originally meant for Xander, building off his military and demon knowledge. I wish they had gone ahead with this, ot would've made the Initiative much more interesting and personal. I'm not anti-Riley but yeah this would have likely been much, much more interesting.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 19:54 |
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So how would a Xander-based Initiative plot work? Would they have had him join the military at some point over the summer, and wind up being assigned to the monster-hunting division? I always love hearing about these alternative story plans.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 21:51 |
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So apparently Joss just signed on for the sequel to Avengers and to have some sort of key involvement in the new Marvel non-superhero TV show.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 22:07 |
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EddieDean posted:So apparently Joss just signed on for the sequel to Avengers and to have some sort of key involvement in the new Marvel non-superhero TV show. What's that? That's the sound of any possible Firefly relaunch in the next 3-5 years go up in smoke. Not that there was any chance in the first place but maybe now the delusional idiots will shut up about it.
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| # ? Aug 7, 2012 22:16 |
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It always seemed really petty how Joss was all "Xanders supposed to be a regular joe so stop working out and get fat ok? thanks"
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| # ? Aug 8, 2012 00:25 |
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| # ? May 25, 2013 04:13 |
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zVxTeflon posted:It always seemed really petty how Joss was all "Xanders supposed to be a regular joe so stop working out and get fat ok? thanks" I am pretty sure that weight gain was due to his drinking problem and also why he got less and less to do
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| # ? Aug 8, 2012 00:27 |
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