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Given Buffy (sometimes along with the rest of the gang) saved the world several times among other heroic life-risking adventures, you think you could cut her a little slack if she doesn't always handle the stress of so much (involuntary) responsibility perfectly.
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| # ? Oct 25, 2008 09:33 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 10:30 |
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ShardPhoenix posted:Given Buffy (sometimes along with the rest of the gang) saved the world several times among other heroic life-risking adventures, you think you could cut her a little slack if she doesn't always handle the stress of so much (involuntary) responsibility perfectly. I never got that. Her friends hosed up a great deal as well. Nobody was perfect. Buffy wasn't any worse than anyone else there, yet she gets a lot of hate from Goons. It makes little sense, but that's what crazed fanbases are for: Being non-sensible.
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| # ? Oct 25, 2008 09:36 |
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It ain't that. It's the fact that Buffy has a Holier-Than-Thou position which is bullshit. She chops and changes and plays favourites as she feels and then breaks out the whole I Am The Slayer deal when anyone challenges her and she still insists everyone treats her normally until that cramps her style. Don't get me wrong, that makes her a real person and all but she can gently caress away off with her high moral ground horsecock.
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| # ? Oct 25, 2008 09:38 |
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muscles like this? posted:I know people liked the show, I did too, but I can't believe people are STILL complaining about Firefly being canceled. The show is 6 years old and it got a movie that wrapped most of the dangling plot threads up. I think its time to give it a rest. I wouldn't be that bothered about it if they'd made a Firefly movie instead of a Star Wars movie starring Malcolm Reynolds. Alexandr posted:I never got that. Her friends hosed up a great deal as well. Nobody was perfect. Buffy wasn't any worse than anyone else there, yet she gets a lot of hate from Goons. It makes little sense, but that's what crazed fanbases are for: Being non-sensible. The thing is, none of the other characters ever said "What, you don't like my idea? Well gently caress you, I'm leaving. You know how to think for yourselves, clearly you don't need any of the other valuable contributions I can make. Oh, you hosed up and a bunch of you died? What's sympathy? Is that like 'Nah nah, told ya so?'" She was fairly easy to sympathize with until she decided to push it right over the edge in season 7. She definitely got too self-entitled there.
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| # ? Oct 25, 2008 12:42 |
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Low Key Liar posted:Learn German. I did. A little, anyway. You're probably right. There's not a single German phrase that doesn't have urgency and severity in spades. A shopping list sounds like an address from a head of state. The real question is, how much of "Buffy is a stinkyhole" is actually just SMG shining through? 
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| # ? Oct 25, 2008 15:22 |
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Stonefish posted:I did. A little, anyway. You're probably right. There's not a single German phrase that doesn't have urgency and severity in spades. A shopping list sounds like an address from a head of state. One common theme of Joss's commentaries has always been that SMG is professional and talented to a fault, and that she acted whatever she was handed to the best degree possible. I think it has more to do with who was writing the show in later seasons than who was starring in it.
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| # ? Oct 25, 2008 17:27 |
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Stonefish posted:Apparently I'm one of four people on this planet who liked Dawn and Kennedy. Well, didn't have any dislike of Kennedy anyway. Yeah, I really liked Kennedy also. I thought Andrew was the only character that really hurt season 7.
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| # ? Oct 25, 2008 17:30 |
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Kennedy hater here. Not so much for the character - though she was annoying - but rather the forced nature of the inclusion. I don't accept as a character trait of Willow that she would hook up with another girl so soon after the death of Tara. It's not the Willow we saw through seasons 1-6.
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| # ? Oct 25, 2008 18:05 |
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Kennedy seemed like some writer's Mary-Sue.
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| # ? Oct 25, 2008 23:22 |
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LividLiquid posted:Kennedy seemed like some writer's Mary-Sue. She was Joss caving to special interest groups. From what I remember he wanted Willow to not necessarily be gay, but that the person she fell in love with happened to be another woman, which I think is incredibly more romantic. However he got a lot of poo poo so he threw in Kennedy.
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| # ? Oct 25, 2008 23:26 |
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It's kind of almost worth it when she calls herself a gay wiccan jewess.
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| # ? Oct 25, 2008 23:27 |
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Paradol Rex posted:I thought Andrew was the only character that really hurt season 7. I believe I've said this before, but there's a certain quantity of Tom Lenk that can be used in a show, and Buffy exceeded it. Anyone here seen Transformers? THAT is the correct quantity. Three lines and he's gone. Comedy that doesn't overstay it's welcome one thousand times over.
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| # ? Oct 26, 2008 00:07 |
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Stonefish posted:I believe I've said this before, but there's a certain quantity of Tom Lenk that can be used in a show, and Buffy exceeded it. "He really didn't love... hanging out... with us."
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| # ? Oct 26, 2008 01:48 |
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Bunnita posted:She was Joss caving to special interest groups. From what I remember he wanted Willow to not necessarily be gay, but that the person she fell in love with happened to be another woman, which I think is incredibly more romantic. However he got a lot of poo poo so he threw in Kennedy. I've always thought that should have been the way it was - that Willow just happened to fall in love with a girl and she didn't identify herself by her sexuality. Kennedy was just.. ugh.
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| # ? Oct 26, 2008 07:32 |
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LividLiquid posted:He was fine in season 6 when he was just one of three nerds. In a show built on not taking itself too seriously, every single scene involving the Trio was just... loving terrible. People always say season 6 was hard to watch because of the emotional downturn it had, but I'm fairly certain they contributed more.
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| # ? Oct 26, 2008 08:13 |
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Well I liked Andrew, and I didn't hate Kennedy. Buffy, Dawn, and to some extent, Riley, were the only characters I disliked over the course of the series. Everyone else was pretty awesome though, so that made up for it.
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| # ? Oct 26, 2008 09:23 |
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Stonefish posted:In a show built on not taking itself too seriously, every single scene involving the Trio was just... loving terrible. People always say season 6 was hard to watch because of the emotional downturn it had, but I'm fairly certain they contributed more.
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| # ? Oct 26, 2008 09:58 |
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Stonefish posted:In a show built on not taking itself too seriously, every single scene involving the Trio was just... loving terrible. People always say season 6 was hard to watch because of the emotional downturn it had, but I'm fairly certain they contributed more.  .
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| # ? Oct 26, 2008 11:58 |
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ShardPhoenix posted:Well, *I* thought they were funny (for the most part) I agree; and I also agree that season 6 is hard to watch because of the emotional downturn. One of my favorite episodes that season is the one where the trio put Buffy through three trials, trying to prove themselves to each other. I've worked retail, and the part where she has to satisfy one customer is brilliant.
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| # ? Oct 26, 2008 16:59 |
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Psimitry posted:I've always thought that should have been the way it was - that Willow just happened to fall in love with a girl and she didn't identify herself by her sexuality. I think it's incredibly romantic and goes against so much of the 'common thinking' that it could have been wonderful. Tara was her soul mate, and it didn't matter what gender either of them were or how little time they were able to spend with each other. Willow suddenly becoming uber militant lesbian and then jumping into bed with Kennedy so quickly just really cheapened her and Tara's romance. Then again I thought Buffy running to Riley cheapened things too, I guess I'm just a romantic.
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| # ? Oct 26, 2008 21:16 |
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Bunnita posted:I think it's incredibly romantic and goes against so much of the 'common thinking' that it could have been wonderful. Tara was her soul mate, and it didn't matter what gender either of them were or how little time they were able to spend with each other. Willow suddenly becoming uber militant lesbian and then jumping into bed with Kennedy so quickly just really cheapened her and Tara's romance. Gonna have to just go ahead and agree with you on all points there. Kennedy was an unfortunate thing since, over the course of not even a year, she shouldn't have been able to just 'get over' Tara's death to the point where she'll shack up with a pushy little dyke who forced herself upon her. Seemed VERY cheap. Riley was a different story, though. He was a genuinely nice guy who was safe and wanted to do everything he could to make her life a stable and secure one. Very  way that turned out.
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| # ? Oct 26, 2008 22:36 |
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Well, at least the comics are really playing up Kennedy as a rebound. That is, they were in "No Future For You," I haven't read any further yet.
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| # ? Oct 27, 2008 03:47 |
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Also, they casually mention that they killed* her off and no-one really cares much. I suspect the fans might have appreciated that. *not really, but a nice effort
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| # ? Oct 27, 2008 05:29 |
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Bunnita posted:I think it's incredibly romantic and goes against so much of the 'common thinking' that it could have been wonderful. Tara was her soul mate, and it didn't matter what gender either of them were or how little time they were able to spend with each other. Willow suddenly becoming uber militant lesbian and then jumping into bed with Kennedy so quickly just really cheapened her and Tara's romance. Agreed on all points about Willow, Tara, and Kennedy. Disagree on the point about Riley. I understand where you're coming from, but took it a different way. It was an intentional lessening of the epic romance of seasons 1-3: Buffy was made more real by this more natural romantic relationship. Riley and Buffy was anything but epic (well, except for the reveal of Hush, which was truly epic), and this was on purpose. Riley was the rebound guy - the storylines made it clear this was part of Riley's character and a central theme of his development on the show. I don't think this cheapens Buffy and Angel, it just makes Buffy more realistic. That Angel did not immediately bounce into another relationship is also realistic, for his character. I thought in fact this "normalness" of the rebound relationship made the Life of Riley mostly tragic. He IS Captain America, almost literally (government produced super-soldier), but most of all, he is GOOD. Few characters are presented as genuinely good on the show -- shades of grey and all that. And while certainly Riley walked the dark side (hello vampire whore!), he remained the innocent, and do-gooder, who ultimately is chewed up and spit out. Buffy's world - Buffy herself - is too dark for do-gooders to last long. He's the good guy who gets shat upon because he is the good guy, while the bad guy (Angel) is ever the heart's desire. Tragic, eh?
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| # ? Oct 27, 2008 23:49 |
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Hey, look, Joss posted to Whedonesque with news about how Dollhouse is progressing! The major points for those who don't want to bother with a long Joss post - There's been plenty of clashes between Whedon and Fox, but from what he's saying, they don't appear to be of the Firefly kind...okay, not completely of the Firefly kind. Like with Firefly, the notes consist of "speed this up, give us more action, etc., etc." Unlike with Firefly, Whedon thinks they have a point. (His words: "Wanting the first episodes to be exciting and accessible is not Satanic.") So as a result of having to re-pace the show, the original pilot was thrown out entirely (as opposed to reshooting it as the second episode) and a few characters and ideas had to be "shifted". But as far as Joss is saying, the only real trouble is that it's a pain in the rear end. Nothing's changed that's worth getting up in arms about. Also, Steven DeKnight has left the show to do a Spartacus series for Starz, but now that Jane Espenson's contract is up at NBC Universal, she'll be taking his place as a consulting producer. Here's the full post. It's in spoilers because Joss tagged his own post with a big red "SPOILER" mark. Hope I wasn't beaten: Joss Whedon posted:(SPOILER) What happened when the lights went out. Sadly, this is not a naughty post. It's just Joss nattering on again.
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| # ? Oct 28, 2008 00:15 |
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Jane Espenson is on board. This cannot be a bad thing.
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| # ? Oct 28, 2008 00:56 |
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Stonefish posted:Jane Espenson is on board. This cannot be a bad thing.
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| # ? Oct 28, 2008 01:22 |
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Not impressed by the Joss post. Felt like forced "Jossiness". Also felt like much of the tale was transparent justification. I've got a bad feeling about this...
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| # ? Oct 29, 2008 23:20 |
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redshirt posted:Not impressed by the Joss post. Felt like forced "Jossiness". Also felt like much of the tale was transparent justification.
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| # ? Oct 30, 2008 05:52 |
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Sometimes they're right though, as it is on the DVD the first episode of Firefly would have been a terrible show premiere.
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| # ? Oct 30, 2008 11:39 |
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Gassire posted:Sometimes they're right though, as it is on the DVD the first episode of Firefly would have been a terrible show premiere. Agreed. When I first watched it, I thought it was horrible. I thought it was overly boring, didn't pick up at all until the end, and I positively HATED Mal. It wasn't until I watched it the second time around that I had any appreciation for it. "The Train Job" on the other hand was somewhat enjoyable and I started to like the series. What it gained with that however was totally lost with "Bushwhacked," and I almost didn't continue to watch it (to this day, I regard it as the worst of the series). But after watching "Shindig" I was totally hooked.
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| # ? Oct 30, 2008 11:45 |
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I just watched the (DVD) pilot a few days ago and I liked it (haven't watched any other episodes yet). It *was* a little slow in places, but I wasn't really expecting a huge action-fest anyway. The space cowboy setting is rather weird, and I'm not sure if it's going to grow on me or not, but it was pretty exciting to be watching a good spaceship sci-fi show again after not having seen one in years (Doctor Who doesn't really count). I should probably try BSG too but from the odd snippets I've seen it looks a little po-faced.
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| # ? Oct 30, 2008 12:10 |
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No, BSG (at least the first two seasons and about half of the third) are loving BRILLIANT. It's taking some hits recently as I don't think they're able to do much of what they want due to budgetary constraints, but the show is/was drat good.
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| # ? Oct 30, 2008 12:44 |
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Psimitry posted:No, BSG (at least the first two seasons and about half of the third) are loving BRILLIANT.
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| # ? Oct 30, 2008 12:46 |
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ShardPhoenix posted:I'll probably watch it at some point. Should I watch the miniseries first? Oh god yes. You'll be totally lost without it. (well maybe not totally lost, but it'll be tough)
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| # ? Oct 30, 2008 13:01 |
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Psimitry posted:Oh god yes. You'll be totally lost without it. (well maybe not totally lost, but it'll be tough) On an unrelated note, for those who follow the Season 8 comics, according to Whedonesque the ending of the next issue (the last one of the current arc) has been given away by a posting of info on the TPB on Amazon. For anyone who's seen said spoiler, just how major is it? I figure that if it's something obvious like "Buffy and Future Willow come into conflict somehow, Buffy wins or escapes, goes home" then I'll just look at it, but if it's something major like "A major character dies/goes away/comes back" or the identity of Twilight, then I'll wait for the actual comic. Basically I want to know if it's something where I'll flip the page and go "holy crap!", or something obvious. edit: although now that I think about what kind of spoiler might appear in a book description I'm going to guess the death of Melaka Fray. ShardPhoenix fucked around with this message at Oct 30, 2008 around 16:20 |
| # ? Oct 30, 2008 16:14 |
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Psimitry posted:Agreed. When I first watched it, I thought it was horrible. I thought it was overly boring, didn't pick up at all until the end, and I positively HATED Mal. Personally I think they should have started with Out of Gas.
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| # ? Oct 30, 2008 17:13 |
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Out of Gas was my favorite episode but I don't think it would have the impact if you didn't already know and like the characters. I recently re-watched the whole series and I was struck by how much character and awesomeness was in the original episode. I didn't think it was slow at all and it introduced everyone with feeling and left a bunch of fun, unanswered questions.
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| # ? Oct 30, 2008 18:22 |
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DoggPickle posted:Out of Gas was my favorite episode but I don't think it would have the impact if you didn't already know and like the characters. I loved the first episode. It was more like a novel than a 42 minute TV show. You got to see a whole hell of a lot of character development. The issue is that it was largely subtextual (thinks like Mal kissing the cross before running into battle), and therefore over the heads of 90% of FOX viewers.
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| # ? Oct 30, 2008 21:32 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 10:30 |
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Gassire posted:Sometimes they're right though, as it is on the DVD the first episode of Firefly would have been a terrible show premiere.
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| # ? Oct 30, 2008 21:40 |
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