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It's really impressive how "Superstar" affects the general arc of Season 4 when it could have so easily been just another alternate reality episode with no consequences. Jonathan may be a creepy and pathetic goon, but the dude's spell did some undeniable good.
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Jul 17, 2014 19:05
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mind the walrus posted:It's really impressive how "Superstar" affects the general arc of Season 4 when it could have so easily been just another alternate reality episode with no consequences. Jonathan may be a creepy and pathetic goon, but the dude's spell did some undeniable good. Did they ever have an alternate reality episode that did not have any consequences?
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Jul 17, 2014 19:06
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Nah. It was still nice because it was definitely not necessary. The little touches are phenomenal in this episode. All the Jonathan merchandise and footage of him accepting awards and stuff really shows how above and beyond they went for the concept.
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Jul 17, 2014 19:23
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mind the walrus posted:Nah. It was still nice because it was definitely not necessary. The Wish did not have to have any arc significance, but it introduced Anya so it became hugely important.
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Jul 17, 2014 19:27
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It was also entirely necessary for Dopplegangland.
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Jul 17, 2014 19:29
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bobkatt013 posted:The Wish did not have to have any arc significance, but it introduced Anya so it became hugely important. Actually it not only forced Anya into staying in Sunnydale but it also was a lynchpin moment in the eventual growth of Cordelia imo
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Jul 17, 2014 19:42
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Twee as gently caress posted:Actually it not only forced Anya into staying in Sunnydale but it also was a lynchpin moment in the eventual growth of Cordelia imo Cordelia did not remember any of the events so any growth was for the one that died. When it comes to Anya she could have been one of those dropped things like mother witch statute.
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Jul 17, 2014 19:51
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bobkatt013 posted:Cordelia did not remember any of the events so any growth was for the one that died. When it comes to Anya she could have been one of those dropped things like mother witch statute. edit: yeah you're actually 100% right Twee as Fuck fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Jul 17, 2014 |
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Jul 17, 2014 20:10
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Twee as gently caress posted:Hmm actually you might be right. Wasn't there a callback later about how she thought she dreamt it or something. Nah, I think you're right. The Cordelia who made the wish was brutally murdered and then at the end when the wish did not work she just went on about horrible things happening to Xander. I also said that the episode did not have to have any arc significance, but they decided that Anya should be a character so it did.
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Jul 17, 2014 20:12
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I like Riley the most of all Buffy's beaus. It didn't hurt that he had the best line in the entire series. "I never thought I'd need to learn the plural of apocalypse." Marc Blucas killed that delivery.
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Jul 17, 2014 20:28
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:the best line in the entire series. Xander - "Like any of that's enough to fight the dark Master... bater."
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Jul 17, 2014 20:37
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Riley suffers the same way Xander does. They just gave up on writing anything interesting for him to do
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Jul 17, 2014 21:29
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:"I never thought I'd need to learn the plural of apocalypse." Marc Blucas killed that delivery. Blucas really does deserve a lot more credit than he gets for playing a straight arrow type so well. It's a lot harder than it looks, and in a lot of ways it's a lot easier to play an Angel or a Spike with all the brooding and the range.
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Jul 17, 2014 22:45
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Except where he failed to deliver anything when he was called upon to deliver some of that brooding and rage during his bite fetish phase. Agent Graham Miller would have been a better secret TA/rebound boyfriend.
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Jul 17, 2014 22:52
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I don't know, I never bought that he was the type to brood and rage even when he was down in the dumps and going to vampire brothels.
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Jul 17, 2014 22:57
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This might sound weird but the Captain America talk makes me think I would've liked the character more if he'd been a straight up superhero complete with a cape and mask and whatnot instead of a random "military" stereotype. As it was, after the fall of the Initiative he just kind of floundered around and got really dull. Also he reminded me of someone off of the Brady Bunch. I also have to say that I'm surprised at the amount of people who hated the Spike & Buffy scenes. I loved Spike and I sort of liked that their relationship was so toxic & destructive at times & undercut with genuine moments of love. Most people experience at least one relationship like that in their twenties and, given the show's overarching themes, it fit in well. Buffy's attempts at "fixing" Spike sort of went right over his head and at the same time it was clear she thought she was the right person to fix him and came off as sanctimonious and self-righteous. It's something I've seen happen a lot. Captain Mog fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Jul 17, 2014 |
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Jul 17, 2014 23:41
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This is tangentially related to Whedon, but the movie of the month in CineD is Wit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0PPvYlGqL8 It features Jonathan M. Woodward, the only guy to ever appear on Buffy, Angel, and Firefly. He was Holden in Buffy (the psych student who gave Buffy a very good therapy session as he was trying to suck her blood), Knox in Angel (a scientist at Wolfram and Hart who was making the moves on Fred, but it turns out was only interested in getting her possessed), and the dead wartime friend of Mal and Zoe's in Firefly. Anyway he's really good in Wit, again playing to type and doing a drat fine job of it, but I won't spoil more. It's kind-of puzzling we never saw him in more stuff. Just be wary if you watch this movie, it's an industrial strength tearjerker. I'm not loving kidding this poo poo is on par with Grave of the Fireflies. It's still really great and everyone should watch it at least once.
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Jul 18, 2014 00:10
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zVxTeflon posted:Riley suffers the same way Xander does. They just gave up on writing anything interesting for him to do I've heard (and I believe it's been discussed before in this thread) that the folks writing season four were thinking about Xander joining the Initiative and finding himself at odds with Buffy over it. He left school, drifted for a bit, not knowing what to do with himself, not sure where he fit in, while his closest friends had moved on to other things, so he joins the army (I believe there was actually a bit part-way through the season when he and Anya discuss the option). It just so happens it's the branch that specialises in catching monsters.
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Jul 18, 2014 00:54
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Metal Loaf posted:I've heard (and I believe it's been discussed before in this thread) that the folks writing season four were thinking about Xander joining the Initiative and finding himself at odds with Buffy over it. I've also heard this, and loved the idea, even if it's not true. Apparently, around the same time, they were contemplating making Xander the gay character of Buffy's friends (which sounds like a bad idea; Willow is a way better fit for it.) Ironically, season 4 Xander was given neither plotline, I guess. I'm glad so many people are coming out of the woodwork to defend Riley. Sure, he's boring, but that is literally the whole point. He was a good character, just intentionally a dull one. At the least, it was nice to see Buffy not being punished for sex. And not dating someone unstable. Also, I forget exactly how the line went, but "she's amazing and everything I ever wanted. But she doesn't love me," is a great line. On feminist grounds, at least, because it challenges the whole Nice Guy thing: typically someone like Riley earns the girl by being such a good dude, but the reality is that it isn't his story and she isn't his just because he wants it. The anti-Riley thing bothers me way less than the pro Spike/Buffy people, though. Don't get me wrong...Spike is probably my favorite character. But their relationship in season 6 is hosed up, on purpose. They're both acting out of absolute existential despair, and it's delusional and toxic. It's violent, sadomasochistic, and built on mutual self-hatred...and the attempted rape should surprise no one, because it encapsulates the whole flawed dynamic. Not that I mean Spike is a rapist. The entire point was this insane sexual roleplay built out of Buffy's self-loathing and Spike's futile pursuit of emotional connection. After Riley (and expulsion from heaven), Buffy feels impure and unworthy, so Spike is her playing in the dirt. Meanwhile, a violent and abusive relationship where Buffy voices her disgust at being with Spike is *the only way Spike could believe someone like Buffy could love him*. The violence is the only thing that makes sense to him (and frankly, one of the only things that makes sense to her.) The rape was Spike failing to realize that the game was over. Afterwards, both of them wise up and see what they were actually doing. And it was seriously unhealthy and terrible. Good plot; terrible relationship.
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Jul 18, 2014 03:43
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Remember that Andrew, of the newest member scoobies Andrews, is also an attempted rapist or at the very least an accessory to attempted rape. The Whedonverse has a high threshold for attempted rape forgiveness due to the requirements of dramatic storytelling.
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Jul 18, 2014 03:46
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Spike did nothing wrong. For a vampire, that is.
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Jul 18, 2014 03:47
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Xealot posted:
It's also great from a feminist perspective because Riley is portrayed as a genuinely good, if not dull and flawed, person and thus still deserving of sympathy and empathy even if we know Buffy could never be with him long-term. I also genuinely loved his return in Season 6, it was a nice and overdue props to Riley and forced Buffy to eat a bit of crow in recognizing just who she gave up, even if as a monster-of-the-week episode it's very, well, weak. Willow is the best friend we all need in our lives in that episode. quote:Spike Absolutely spot-on. I like what Spike/Buffy did for the series as part of season 6, but it was never comfortable to watch. ----- Tonight we're into "Innocence" and it's phenomenal how much of a shot in the arm Angelus is to the show's electricity. Literally everyone's game is stepped up. Also loving  when Buffy and Angel fight at the end of the episode the movie lobby is plastered with "Quest for Camelot" posters. Normally I'd just think "oh that's funny and dated" but this episode was apparently the highest rated in Buffy's entire history, so I love that of all the movies in 97 it was "Quest for loving Camelot" that managed to get promoted when Buffy was at one of its peaks.
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Jul 18, 2014 04:01
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I like Riley a lot now, but I seem to recall thinking of him as a second-rate Angel back in the day. I just really liked Buffy and Angel together back then.  (Oh god this was back in high school, wasn't it? This was over a decade ago oh god.)
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Jul 18, 2014 05:37
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What's the take of Xander jilting Anya? I totally get why he did it and I even like Season 8's Dawn and Xander, but re-watching older episodes I still can't help but go "I hope these kids make it."
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Jul 18, 2014 06:28
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The actual jilting process was depicted well, but I didn't like how the show seemed to play it off as if the two of them were totally not ready for marriage or, like, that something like this was bound to happen to them eventually. Xander and Anya could have worked through their troubles, but they didn't because TV. I had the same problem with Buffy and Riley's breakup, to be honest. Roughly 99.99% of the problems that couples on BtVS go through could have been fixed with a simple honest conversation, and I never liked how the show tended to look back on them like they were all just tragedies in the making. The "I'm cookie dough, I'm not done baking yet" analogy Buffy made in the series finale was great and I may or may not have stolen it to use in everyday life, but...well, it wasn't really true. Buffy's relationships didn't fail because she wasn't, I dunno, finished growing as a person or whatever -- honestly, when does anyone truly finish growing as a person? -- they just failed because they were written to fail. (Also, she was dating vampires and headcases)
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Jul 18, 2014 08:08
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mind the walrus posted:What's the take of Xander jilting Anya? I totally get why he did it and I even like Season 8's Dawn and Xander, but re-watching older episodes I still can't help but go "I hope these kids make it." I thought that this was probably the lowest point of the show for me in terms of Xander's character. I don't know if the whole episode was supposed to make me hate the character, but it worked, and I truly would've had no issue with never seeing him again from that moment forth. He's seen how deceptive demons and evil forces can be and before that, we'd seen as an audience just how much he really loved Anya and vice versa, but he still manages to make the wrong choice and do pretty much one of the worst things you can do to a person. I didn't get his justification either- it was basically "if I get married, there's no way I'll be able to stop myself from becoming an abusive dickhead! :'("- and pretty much summed up his personality in one scene. The only plus side about that episode was Emma's acting. She really sold the poo poo out of it, the whole drat thing. I mean how could you not feel for her after this: Anya posted:"I, Anya, want to marry you, Xander, because I love you and I'll always love you. Before I knew you, I was, like a completely different person. Not even a person, really. And I had seen what love could do to people. And it was hurt and sadness. Alone was better. And then suddenly there was you, and you knew me, you saw me, and it was this... thing. You make me feel safe and warm. So I get it now. I finally get love, Xander. I really do." Captain Mog fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Jul 18, 2014 |
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Jul 18, 2014 09:20
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Saw this on a blind item website today:quote:These two actresses/former co-stars hate each other. One is a B list mostly television actress on a struggling network show. The other is a B+ list mostly television actress who goes from one hit project to the next. Apparently the B lister, who used to be an A lister is jealous of the B+ lister and used to treat her like crap. It also doesn't help that another former co-star who is always willing to stir up trouble and desperate for parts whispers things in each of their ears. So no hope of any reunion then. loving thanks Dawnie.
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Jul 31, 2014 06:55
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*citation needed
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Jul 31, 2014 11:05
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I give zero fucks about proof, I saw something on a similar website about Alyson Hannigan and her husband (that would be one Alexis "Wes" Denisof) being into having threesomes with willing female fans of theirs. That's just plain awesome.
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Jul 31, 2014 11:10
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Shadow Puppet Of posted:Saw this on a blind item website today: Not that this isn't totally plausible gossip, but it's still just gossip. Besides a reunion has always looked slim. In season 7 of Buffy every cast member who has been on the show more than 2 seasons aside from Spike--who seems informed he gets to go to Angel--acts really tired and eager to close the show as a chapter in their lives, which thankfully works for the plot but is definitely noticeable. Eleven years on while everyone has seemingly mellowed it's apparent that none of them are itching to do the reunion thing outside of isolated bursts on social media. Besides, much as I adore SMG I don't know if I'd ever call her A-list aside from like maybe 1-2 years at the turn of the century when she was showing up in Cruel Intentions and Scream 2. I can buy the Alyson Hannigan drama sadly, by Season 6 and 7 of Buffy she was absolutely acting like the co-lead of the show and there was almost a gulf between the two actresses in terms of show focus, and time has only vindicated her as the most successful Scoobie by a country mile. The whole fan-threesome thing is a bit  though, even as a fan I didn't care to even think that.
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Jul 31, 2014 12:47
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Is it safe to say David Boreanz has had the most successful career post Buffy/Angel?
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Jul 31, 2014 14:57
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redshirt posted:Is it safe to say David Boreanz has had the most successful career post Buffy/Angel? Going from one long running series to another AND dropping the hella broody persona I thought he'd get stuck with after Angel? Yeah, I'd say so. It's good that a lot of them are getting steady work. Amy Acker and J August Richards seem to show up in everything. Edit: if you were to tell me that David Boreanaz would have been in his current position ten years ago I'd have laughed in your face. cool kids inc. fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Jul 31, 2014 |
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Jul 31, 2014 15:13
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redshirt posted:Is it safe to say David Boreanz has had the most successful career post Buffy/Angel? Aly and DB probably run close, but I bet DB makes a lot more. DB was also the most successful at turning into a total shitbag.
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Jul 31, 2014 15:16
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redshirt posted:Is it safe to say David Boreanz has had the most successful career post Buffy/Angel? Alyson Hannigan was on 9 seasons of How I met your Mother and Amy Acker is currently a cast member of Person of Interest.
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Jul 31, 2014 15:16
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bobkatt013 posted:Alyson Hannigan was on 9 seasons of How I met your Mother and Amy Acker is currently a cast member of Person of Interest. AH is part of an ensemble cast and clearly not the focus, whereas DB is the co-lead of Bones.
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Jul 31, 2014 15:24
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Bones got renewed for its 10th season (jesus christ who is still watching Bones) and is going to hit over 200 episodes.
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Jul 31, 2014 15:53
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rypakal posted:DB was also the most successful at turning into a total shitbag. Wait what? I've had several run ins with DB and he seems like just a normal dude to me
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Jul 31, 2014 17:10
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rypakal posted:DB was also the most successful at turning into a total shitbag. Details? that runs contrary to everything i've heard about the guy
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Jul 31, 2014 17:41
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Probably because he's a ridiculous adulterer. Seems Al Bundy didn't set him straight after all.
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Aug 1, 2014 03:30
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Twee as gently caress posted:Details? that runs contrary to everything i've heard about the guy Yeah seriously. I even saw him at Comic-Con about ten years ago at a Bones panel and he seemed genuinely chill and humble, dealing with fan-bullshit with real grace and tact. Granted a lot can change in that time, but everything I've heard about the guy says he's a really nice dude all things considered. He is probably the most successful post-Buffy/Angel cast member though. I had forgotten about Bones. Because seriously who the gently caress is still watching Bones?
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Aug 1, 2014 03:40
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