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I'm working my way through Angel again, for the third(?) time, and I have begun to notice many, MANY, discrepancies in what we have seen in flashbacks, and what characters have told each other. The biggest is from Buffy season 1 when Angel says that ater he was re-ensouled, the Gypsy girl he fed on was the last time he ever drank human blood. Well that was a big fat lie, wasn't it? We know that during the Boxer rebellion, when we joined back up with Darla because he wanted to try to be evil again, he fed off of murderers, thieves, and rapists to "prove" to Darla he was still Angelus, but she saw right through him and tried to get him to kill a baby but he wouldn't do it. Then during WWII he fed (and turned!) that guy from the submarine who's name I can't recall. Later, in the 70's, he fed off of that cashier from the doughnut shop after he was shot and killed. There's also issues with when/how vampires need to be invited. The worst offender I can think of is when Jenny's uncle is murdered by Angelus. He just walks right into his apartment without being invited at all.
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Jul 27, 2008 04:46
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Ain Paradisum posted:It's a hotel, he didn't need an invite. Really? I don't recall ever seeing anything that implied/said it was a hotel room. I'm not saying it wasn't, I just don't recall. Of course, if we try hard enough, we might even be able to think of a circumstance where a vampire couldn't enter a hotel room anyway.
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Jul 27, 2008 07:12
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IndieRockLance posted:Season eight of Buffy runs alongside season five of Angel. I thought season 8 took place a year after that? It took a year for Buffy, Xander, et al to find the slayers, get funding, secure a castle, etc...Basically, there was a season 7.5 that we only saw a few glimpses of, generally in the form of Andrew.
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Jul 27, 2008 19:08
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LividLiquid posted:This never bothered me until now. Wow. I really wish they'd at least give us some kind of magic bollocks answer as to why this isn't possible. Well, Willow was copying the exact same Gypsy (though I guess in today's PC age we should say Romani, yes?) curse, so it would have the same conditions. Which reminds me of another point that no one seemed to catch on to our notice until Wesley in Season 5. Everyone was running around since Buffy season 2 saying "Angel can't bump any uglies or he'll lose his soul!" Umm....WRONG! It's perfect happiness that brings out Angelus, NOT sex. Didn't you notice that the first time Angel lost his should it wasn't mid-coitus, or even at climax, it was minutes or hours later, when Angel was sleeping next to Buffy. Granted, I understand that they might not have caught on right then. But then in Angel season 2 he has sex with Darla hoping to bring out Angelus and failed. That should have proved right then and there to everyone that merely having sex doesn't being out Angelus. It's not until Season 7 when he and Eve go at it for a while because of Lorne's voodoo that they seem to catch on, and Wesley tells him there are millions of relationships out there where people are happy, but don't have perfect happiness. And you're trying to tell me that in the 100+ years since the Gypsies (sorry, Romani) cursed him , he never once had sex? I know that for most of it he was brooding, but he DID shack back up with Darla a few years right after, and you KNOW they had sex. And at no point in the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, or 60s he had sex? He didn't start living in sewers eating rats until the doughnut shop incident in the 70s.
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Jul 28, 2008 02:07
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Man, sometimes I get tired of seeing something in Angel that contradicts something earlier. In the first episode of Season 5, Angel goes to "Spanky's" house and gets choked, to no effect because vampires don't breath. But...in Buffy season 2 Spike chokes Drusilla to stop her from fighting and leaves with her, because she passes out.
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Jul 29, 2008 22:31
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Ain Paradisum posted:Seriously? She let her figure go after season 2, and got that trashy tramp stamp and I thought she looked far worse. Wow, you are a dumbass who has no idea what a real woman looks like. See, women have these things called curves. They occur at breast and hip-level. Woman are not meant to be sticks. Which isn't to say they should be fatties either, far from it, but Charisma Carpenter in seasons 2-5 of Angel was much hotter than she was in Buffy and season 1. You probably thought that Sarah Michelle-Gellar was hottest when she was half-anorexic in season 7? ETA: I gotta agree with you on the tramp stamp, though. God those things are terrible.
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Aug 3, 2008 17:28
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redshirt posted:We need pictures for comparison. Let the people decide! Alright.   Those two are from season 1-3 of Buffy.  Season 1 of Angel.  Season 2 of Angel...I guess this was when she was starting to "let herself go."  Her last appearance on Angel, as a guest star in season 5. Wow...what a chunker. How a fatty like that was able to pose in Playboy, I'll never know. Which reminds me, if you do a google image search with even moderate filtering turned on, all off the nude and semi-nude pictures of her you'll find are after she "let herself go."
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Aug 3, 2008 19:41
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hope and vaseline posted:Anyone picked up Buffy s8 #17 yet? Great setup issue, if a little confusing with the back and forth between different scenes, but the reveal in the end was pretty crazy. They're finally tying the Fray series into canon, and pretty well too. I was expecting Amy to be the madwoman as she's been pretty active behind the scenes of whatever twilight is, but once Fray's brother said she sounded sad over the mention of Buffy's realizations, I knew it had to be Willow. Really interested how this all plays out. I thought it was a decent issue, with a nice twist at the end. (BTW, do we need to spoiler it still? I mean...those of us who read the comics have already read it, and those who don't won't know or care what we're talking about.) I honestly thought it was going to be Drusilla. We have heard nothing about her (AFAIK) since Angel season 2. Maybe an appearance in a non-canon comic, but that's it, so I was hoping it would be her. And it would have fit, too...dark haired lady who speaks in riddles. And I think they were trying to get us to think that it was her, as well.
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Aug 9, 2008 15:40
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So I finished working my way through all of Angel, and now I'm on to Buffy (cause unlike Angel, there's several episodes I haven't seen.) But I was reminded of something that really bugged me when I first watched it, and bugs me still. In "Earshot," Jonathon is in a clock tower with a rifle to (presumably) kill students. But then he admits he was just going to kill himself. Umm....bwa? You go to a clock tower, with a scoped rifle to kill yourself? Not buying it. I can buy the clock tower part...wanting to do it in a secluded spot...but a rifle? It would be very hard to position a rifle to kill yourself, and why the gently caress would it have a scope?
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Aug 15, 2008 06:06
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Now working my way through season 5 of Buffy, and yet again, questions arise that, if thought about too much, make you enjoy it less. Glory needs the key to bridge the gateway between dimensions and rule over her own world. The monks decided to keep her from Glory by sending her to The Slayer in the form of a sister, so that she'd love it and do everything in her power to keep it safe (they lucked out on that one. History is full of some sets of siblings just not getting along at all. Cain and Abel, anyone?) The knights, on the other hand, feel the best way to keep Glory from having the Key is to destroy it, which in this case means killing Dawn. If the Key is destroyed, Glory can never have it. You know...I gotta side with the knights on this one. Why didn't the monks just destroy the key? Or, if they felt it was too valuable, would making it into a tiny grain of sand at the bottom of the ocean be a better choice? Let's see Glory find it then.
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Aug 28, 2008 01:25
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And now I'm just starting to watch "The Body," and I feel really bad for Brian. The guy that went on a date with Joyce and even sent her flowers. Can you imagine the ribbing his friends must have given him? I mean, drat, a woman dies to avoid a second date with you? There's no getting over that.
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Aug 28, 2008 03:56
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Felicia Day is now in a Sears commercial. Just thought I'd mention that. Fake edit: we should rename the thread "Just Joss:Buffy/Angel/Firefly/Dr.Horrible/The Dollhouse/Also Felicia Day is awesome"
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Oct 3, 2008 03:31
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redshirt posted:For no good reason, I'd like to list all the vampires we saw in the tv shows from strongest to weakest. There were a lot of vampires. Didn't we already do this? It might have been in the last Joss mega-thread we had, though...oh, and it was everyone we've seen, not just vamps. I guess the thing to ask is this: Are we going with just pure, raw strength, or are we factoring in their knowledge and skills at fighting and weapons? And something I always found odd...Kakitos was a really old vamp, so old he has...cloven feet and hands? The Master and the Prince of Lies were also really old, but they look more like bats/Nosferatu/Ubervamps. Why is this?
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Oct 9, 2008 20:07
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Stonefish posted:Can't mention that scene without bringing up the hair, can we now? Which always bothered me because I thought vampires couldn't grow hair?
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Dec 19, 2008 18:53
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Zombiest posted:My recent eval at work: I'm Whedon fan and I don't get it either...I can't even place what series it's from, or who said it. I'm guessing...Firefly, and Cap. Reynolds?
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Mar 26, 2010 18:34
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LividLiquid posted:Did Vocoders even exist in 2002? That piece of poo poo Cher song ("Believe"?) was made in like 98 and it was autotoned to Hell and back.
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Jun 11, 2010 21:06
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Since I'm in the middle of rewatching season 5, it brought back a question I always had about the key. Why? Why does it exist? Ok, I know what it does opens the gateway between all dimensions, Glory needs it to get back to hers and rule as a god again. But why does it exist in the first place? If the monks who guarded it were so keen on Glory never, EVER finding it, why did they make it a frail, fragile, mortal, human girl? Why not just take the Knights of Byzantium approach and destroy the drat thing so Glory can never, ever, EVER have it? Or at least just turn it into a tiny grain of sand at the bottom of the ocean? So even if she did try to use that snake thing to find it, it would jsut frown in the process? Ooh, better yet, turn it into a loving comet, or something. Can Glory go into space? I doubt it! It seems a lot of trouble could have been avoided if a few idiots weren't so idiotic about it.
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Jun 16, 2010 04:10
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thebardyspoon posted:So when Jasmine appeared how come vampires didn't fall in love with her but Angel did? He had a soul I guess but they probably should have mentioned it. Yeah, I guess it's just implied. The vamps and some demons weren't enthralled by her (like the midget demon Fred killed,) but Angel and other demons (Lorne, the bug thingies from the first dimension she "tested her plan" in...and those bug thingies had a soul? Odd.) were.
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Jun 18, 2010 03:55
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Green Crayons posted:I also like how there was an obligatory use of guns at the beginning of the series (wielded by Darla, I do believe) but once that was knocked out of her hands there was apparently a standing Hellmouth-wide memo sent out to all the bad guys that guns just don't work against the Slayer. Or something. Ugh, I'm not even a "gun person," but watching Darla "shoot" the pistols even made me cringe. You'd think after being around for over 400 years she'd learn how to aim. Or at least not try and shoot two at once. I'm glad he finally went back on this in Angel. It makes perfect sense for Wesley to use guns. He's an ok, but not great, physical fighter (nowhere near as good (and could never be as strong) as Angel, and not even as good as Gunn.) I kind of get why most demons and whatnot didn't use guns...they considered it "bad form." They take pride and pleasure in killing things with their own hands, but why in the gently caress did Xander (and possibly Anya) never get guns? They both suck at combat, Xander has no magic, Anya is just barely competent at it, it would make perfect sense for both of them to buy/steal/conjure up some shotguns and pistols, STAT! And speaking of conjuring, another season 6 sperg...ok, the gang spent all of Joyce's life insurance money on her hospital bills and what little bit of the mortgage they could...so why didn't Willow and Tara just magic up some more? I can't imagine it's against "The rules" of magic to conjure some measly little pieces of paper, that just happen to be green with large "$100" written on them, right?
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Jun 29, 2010 23:26
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Rhyno posted:Well what the hell else are you going to make an axe out of? Umm...an axe? Seriously, though, have you looked at a hubcap lately? Even a well made one? It is NOT the type of metal you want to make an axe out of.
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Jul 1, 2010 00:47
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A Big Dark Yak posted:I also figure Spike and Dru just stayed the gently caress away. Why wouldn't they? Spike and Dru never had any interaction with The Master. I'm sure they heard Angel and Darla talk about him, but they probably figured him for a wanker. And since Spike was interested in The Slayer, he was probably in Cleveland...maybe Wish Buffy dusted him and/or Dru, or he just got his rear end beat and decided to stay away and wait for the next Slayer to kill.
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Jul 1, 2010 17:57
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scarycactusjunior posted:Okay, here's what I really don't get: everyone assuming that Willow's magic use in Season 6 is an allegory for drugs. That's because it very clearly is. She goes to a freakin' back alley, finds a dealer (complete with junkies hanging out inside, no less,) gets a "fix" (I think at one point she even calls it "a fix,") and then proceeds to act like she's on LSD, including driving all wonky and crashing the car. And then when she sucks the magic out of Giles that he was given by the Coven, she once again (for a brief while,) acts like she's high or trippn' balls and is all, "Whoa...that's some good stuff you got there, Giles...I'm, like...one with the Earth and can feel all the people, man..." There is no way in Hell that poo poo is not a direct, blatant, and stupid allegory for drugs.
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Jul 1, 2010 21:02
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thebardyspoon posted:I was just wondering, was there a thread for Buffy or Angel when they were airing? Obviously not the really early seasons, I'm just curious what the reaction was to the end of the Dracula episode in Season 5 or the finale of season 2 of Angel in Pylea. I think the following would rank higher: Angel losing his soul Dawn appearing out of nowhere Darla being resurrected Spike getting his soul I imagine the last one there would be similar to a bunch of Lost threads where it would be five pages of: 
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Jul 2, 2010 18:54
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AmbassadorFriendly posted:gently caress yeah. That's when I finally knew that Wolfram & Hart was a real threat and not just a generic evil law firm that made problems for PIs. Yeah, that was a "holy poo poo!" moment, but then a big letdown the next season and two when they never really re-visit it.
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Jul 2, 2010 21:00
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Pope Guilty posted:No, no, no, the First can only appear as people who have died, which is why it can appear as Buffy. You're right, however: WARREN NEVER DIED! That's his point. If Amy whisked him away right at the instant his skin was torn off, but before he actually died, then he never died and The First should never have been able to appear as him. They should have come up with some other way of having Warren be alive...maybe as one of those "repercussions" they always talk about when you use Dark Magic.
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Jul 3, 2010 15:26
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thedouche posted:It would be legal I think, because it seems like the dead can be resurrected (in a non-zombie way) if they died some sort of mystical death (maybe haven't your skin ripped off by a pissed off witch is close enough). True, however when Willow resurrected Buffy she said she only had one chance to do it, because it required the Urn of Osiris, and they acquired the very last one in the world. Besides which, we know he wasn't just raised from the dead because Amy didn't raise him from the dead, she put some sort of "magic skin" on him the moment Willow torn it off and kept him alive.
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Jul 3, 2010 23:43
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I always wondered that if the gang's original plan re: Angelus/Angel in season 4 had worked, would Angel still have the perfect happiness clause? Originally, the Asian monk that de-souled him presumably was going to re-soul him. Could he have done so in the same way that the Demon did to Spike? Without any kind of "you start to enjoy it, you lose it!" errata? And I imagine Willow did it the same way because that was the only way she knew. Yeah. maybe she could have researched and come up with a new way, but time was of the essence.
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Jul 6, 2010 00:48
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Emancipator posted:If Angel got it on furry style with Nina then the curse is either broken, really, really, really specific or it's a case of crappy writing. Actually, it IS really specific. It has to be perfect happiness. Not mediocre happiness, not sex, but perfect happiness. The first time he lost his soul is wasn't during or right after sex with Buffy, it was a few hours later lying next to her as he realized he was in love with a beautiful; girl he was destined to be with who lived him back equally. THAT'S when he had his moment of pure contentment or whatever. The next (real) time he lost it it took an entire perfect day. He made amends with an estranged friend and son who hated him, killed the bad guy with the help of said friend and son, confessed his love for a different beautiful girl who also confessed her love, and then made love to her. So yeah, I'd say just dating and banging a werewolf chick isn't that likely to give him perfect happiness. He also banged Darla and Eve with no ill-effect. In fact, he probably had some sexing with Darla right after he got his soul, when he was trying to prove to her, Spike, and Drusilla that he could still be evil even with one. He only lasted a few days and only killed criminals and low-lifes, but there's no way he and Darla didn't bang at least once in that time. And then he went another hundred years (almost) with no sex at all? Ha! I doubt that. Ok, yes, from 1975 (or whenever) onwards, he lived as a bum eating rats and being kinda crazy and smelly, but for the first 3/4 of the century, he just didn't do much of anything. I find it hard to believe he didn't once find some hooker or floozy and get with her for funsies.
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Jul 6, 2010 20:55
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threeagainstfour posted:My feeling is that the curse includes the happiness clause because if Angel ever finds himself at a point in his unlife where he feels "true" happiness then he really isn't miserable anymore. Angel might be able to begin a real healing process and move on from all the guilt they made him carry. The gypsies weren't about to have that, so the curse comes with that nifty little soul removal bit. Ding, ding, ding, ding! We have a winner! The gypsy uncle even confirms this. He basically says that the soul was meant to torment him. As soon as it stops tormenting him, and allows him to achieve 'perfect happiness', then it's job is done and it is taken back. They didn't want Angel to ever really like having a soul. The would have preferred it if Angel spent all of his days like he spent them from 1975-ish till 1995-ish, living in misery in an alley, feeding off of rats and other vermin, and suffering because he both hates what he was and what he is, a vampire with a soul who gets no joy from the vampires enjoy, yet at times still yearns to do them, like when he drank from the dead diner guy and hated himself for it. They never intended nor wanted him to become a 'do-gooder' and redeem himself and maybe get a shot at being human, they wanted him to suffer.
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Jul 7, 2010 14:33
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Adam Bowen posted:I'm not at all ashamed to admit that I did the work to come to the same conclusion. Season 5 had possibly the two hottest women to ever work with Joss (Nina and Eve) and he's worked with a lot of attractive women. The hottest woman on a Joss show is, and always will be, umm...well, I don't know her name, but she was April the Robot is "I Was Made to Love You." (Wikipedia tells me her name is Shonda Farr.) Screw fixing the Buffy-Bot, Willow should have fixed April and her and Tara could have hot lesbo threesomes without any of that pesky jealousy crap, since she was a robot and all. 
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Jul 8, 2010 15:20
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Gassire posted:Right, like I said he was trying to subvert the trope of people getting punished for premarital sex, and the first that happens after she has sex is some blonde gets killed. The show doesn't mention Buffy having sex without some horrible consequence until like season six. Joss explains it better on the commentary for the episode she sleeps with Angel. She has lots of sex with Riley that has no negative consequences? And sex with Parker was just that she felt slutty, not some horrible, world-ending thing. Hardly "horrible".
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Jul 11, 2010 03:48
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Am I the only one that actually sided with Wes when he took Connor? I mean...he did the best he could with the info he had. Everything he read and heard (including the might Hamburger Loa) told him the prophecy was true. And, to his credit, it DID come true. Both the literal version, "The father will devour the son" came true when Angel was drinking blood spiked with Connor's, and the metaphorical version of Angel killing him came true when he cut his throat at the end of season 4 to let the reality altering spell take effect. Poor Wes... 
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Jul 12, 2010 18:36
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I think his reluctance to tell anyone stemmed from the fact that he unequivocally thought that if Connor stayed with Angel he would die, and if he told anyone else, they would tell Angel and they'd convince/force him not to do anything.
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Jul 12, 2010 22:54
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redshirt posted:Unlike many here, I'm not a big fan of Season 5. I mean, it's still great cuz it's Angel, and certainly the last 3rd of the season is gold, AND there are some stellar standout episodes, but in comparison to the other seasons, I think it's the weakest, by far. (I rank them 4, 3, 2, 1, 5). I mean, Season 5 was essentially a reboot, AND they replaced Angel kicking down a door in the opening credits with Angel snapping shut a file folder. Nuff said. You put season 4 as the best season, so I don't think we can really trust your opinion on anything.
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Jul 13, 2010 03:05
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The problem is, he didn't act like a kid who was raised in a Hell dimension for 16 years, he just acted like any other angsty loving teen on the planet.
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Jul 14, 2010 02:45
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What I want to know is why did Jasmine have to have Connor diddle what was essentially herself in a shell body? What purpose did that serve? I know that character-wise it worked in a way because it made Connor easier to manipulate if he thought he had to protect "his child," but from a plot standpoint I see know reason why Jasmine had to have Connor have sex with her. So was that the only reason? So Jasmine could get him to kill a virgin?
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Jul 15, 2010 02:26
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AmbassadorFriendly posted:In all honesty I just want a God of War style Angel game. I don't know if that would fit the theme of Angel at all...Angel was never really the "kick everyone's rear end extremely hardcore!!!   " type. I mena...yeah, he kicked everyone's rear end, but not in the same way as God of War.
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Jul 23, 2010 18:21
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Green Crayons posted:We took this: You should have somehow worked a seabreeze into that...which requires real grapefruit juice from a real grapefruit., 
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Jul 25, 2010 17:02
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Tell him to skip most of She...the scene with him with the cellphone in the car, and as the fake museum tour guide are good, but that's it...
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Jul 26, 2010 22:07
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LostBanana posted:Now you're going to tell me James Marsters is American. It was really disconcerting to me when he was on Smallville. I know that's his real voice, but only ever hearing him do one of two English accents for Spike (and the second one is only like 1% of the time,) it was weird. Especially when he said "Clark," because the 'r' sound is always so soft in English accents, so it sounded like he was over-emphasizing it.
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Aug 8, 2010 19:29
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