Whedon World: Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Dollhouse, Dr. Horrible, and S.H.I.E.L.D.

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The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The TV IV > Whedon World: Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Dollhouse, Dr. Horrible, and S.H.I.E.L.D.

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

And it had Joss Whedon being treated like a retard and dancing around the yard.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2008 00:47

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# ¿ May 24, 2013 23:33

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

Stonefish posted:

Clerks Animated was very hard to describe. I mean, isn't there a rule somewhere that says you can't do flashback humour in the FIRST EPISODE of your show?

Second, and I always thought it was good, but not the second coming of Christ that Kevin Smith thought it was.

# ¿ Aug 4, 2008 14:16

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

Low Key Liar posted:

perhaps they tag teamed Dru and Darla. that could either be intimate or the exact opposite.

Naw, in the immortal episode Spike mentions the two of them never allowing to do anything like that.

# ¿ Aug 6, 2008 00:26

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

redshirt posted:

Great points that cannot totally be discounted.

The Knights bugged me too till I realized it's not about the practicality of killing Dawn or not, but rather Buffy's commitment to life -- other people's lives, truly and completely. She is the Slayer - a Killer - but she proves she is more by not killing Dawn, and rather sacrificing herself. It may be stupid - for instance, if Glory gets the key and destroys our world with Dawn dead too, what's the point? Except never accepting the notion that the ends justify the means, and killing Dawn, for whatever worthy reason, is still killing an innocent person, for nothing she did.

How's that work?

Well the whole thing was meant to be a parallel to the end of season 2 where she had to kill Angel to stop another hell portal from opening and it almost destroyed her, so she was not willing to make that sacrifice again.

# ¿ Aug 29, 2008 02:47

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

richardfun posted:

So he fights demons as a human, in Hell, and lives on? That seems like a bit of a stretch

He's survived so far with a mix of magic( healing rituals, and a glamour to make everyone think he's still a vamp), his reputation, and the demons not wanting to offend the senior partners by killing him before they want him to die.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2008 20:29

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

Rhyno posted:

There were some basic points that Joss had laid out for Season 6. Fred and Illyria, Oz coming back to train Nina and Wes coming back. There was other stuff but I forget what else right now.

Yeah but that was all pre-pre-pre-production spit balling. Not even to the level of Xander having Ben's role in season 5. Seth Green hadn't even been asked if was interested in doing it.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2008 01:39

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

Well Paris getting the role was more of a "let's see if she'll take the role of a coked vapid whore who does nothing but spend her father's money and not see the irony." Giles isn't even the end of it though, it also has Ogre from Skinny Puppy, and for some unknown reason Sarah Paulson. As in Andrew Lloyd Weber's ex-wife, every female lead Weber ever wrote had me in mind, Sarah Paulson.

I want to like it since some of the songs do sound really good, but the writer/director is a giant self-inserting douche nozzle and the acting/singing from the guy who plays Paris and Ogre's brother is the first performance in a movie I've actively cringed at.

# ¿ Sep 10, 2008 01:09

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

Yeah, that's who I meant. All these drat white people look alike to me.

# ¿ Sep 10, 2008 18:49

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

Sometimes they're right though, as it is on the DVD the first episode of Firefly would have been a terrible show premiere.

# ¿ Oct 30, 2008 11:39

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

Stonefish posted:

Until I learned that Joss was just a complete bastard like that, I figured it was a final bit of respect for her, not a massive fakeout

It was, he added her to the credits mainly as a thank you so she can add featured cast member on Buffy to her resume.

I never said I didn't like the first episode, just that it could have been edited better to serve as a premiere. The Battle for Serenity Pass shouldn't have been the first scene of the series. It dampens its effect on Mal if you see what he was like during the battle before the meet the current Mal. They could cut the flashback, opened with the Train Job's ante-credit scene and with the extra time add back into the pilot the scene where Book hints at the importance of Serenity to Simon. Then they could have saved the flashback for later in the series when you have a better idea of how important the battle was to Mal and have started getting curious to see it.

# ¿ Nov 4, 2008 02:18

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

FabioClone posted:

He did kill that girl werewolf...

He also ate that zombie.

# ¿ Dec 11, 2008 03:58

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

Spaceboy posted:

The Buffy one-shot was decent, though. It was nice to see Buffy back in High School, and JOYCE! Also, Giles has the best Giles moment in the comic series so far.

Yeah it was nice to see the unaired pilot from the cartoon show see the light of day in some form. I think it was the first thing done by Jeph Loeb I've enjoyed in about 2 years. The last being that one episode of Heroes he wrote in season 1.

# ¿ Jan 2, 2009 14:12

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

Stonefish posted:

At that point in time, that's what they still thought, no?

That's what they said but it had more of the air of rationalization than actual belief. Like finding excuses after they realized they had the power to do something.

# ¿ Jan 3, 2009 22:21

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

Stonefish posted:

Well they've only brought back every character that didn't die, and at least one that did. In the space of one "season", or about as much dialogue as two TV episodes. If they can get over that (like Futurama did), they might get on to actually telling some nice small-scale stories.

Well bringing back Dracula was awesome since they got to explain what makes him different from other vamps plus we got to learn that he's totally gay for Xander.

# ¿ Jan 14, 2009 00:33

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

Frasier was constantly on TV for over 20 years.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2009 06:22

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

ShardPhoenix posted:

I'm not sure how I feel about this new storyline but I'm interested to see where it goes.

Hate to reply to this a month after the fact but now that we have the Season 6 issues that correspond to the change, it makes a certain amount of sense and could have some cool consequences.

# ¿ Feb 24, 2009 03:50

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

Well it's been shown multiple times that demons that used to be human react poorly to anything that reminds them of being human. Look at how Angelus obsessed over Buffy because of all the emotions she brought up in Angel.

# ¿ Mar 13, 2009 09:04

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

LazyDivey posted:

Sarah Michelle Gellar is reportedly in talks to reprise her role as Buffy on the big screen.

http://www.darkhorizons.com/news/13...a-buffy-movie-/

Here's hoping...

So all it took was getting her knocked up to make her want to return?

# ¿ Apr 12, 2009 17:19

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

Kojiro posted:

The way I heard it Jasmine was meant to be a Buffy villain, and Angel was meant to get The First.

Yeah, Buffy was still going to get Caleb though. The whole point was to the put the two of them together again.

# ¿ Jun 2, 2009 01:55

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

Bunnita posted:

From what I remember it does that because the big bads etc got shuffled around between Buffy and Angel (this happens at least one more time also) and so they had the Fred storyline in reserve and kind of threw it in there.

That sounds odd but I swear that is what I heard. Spike was supposed to be the big Bad and Oz was supposed to be involved, but he left the year before so I'm not sure.

Anyway you got Fred! And that makes it all worth it

That doesn't sound right at all, Buffy season 5 was concurrent to 2, and the big bad for 5 was Glory who was an integral part of the entire season.

# ¿ Jun 23, 2009 02:07

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

I think he's saying Ben is working for Glory?

# ¿ Jun 23, 2009 03:03

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

Bunnita posted:

I thought she inhabited him from a very early age and just got more and more powerful as time went on. I don't think he made any kind of deal. He was a nice guy until the end, he tried to save Dawn but also knew he would die with Glory.

Spoilered that because it looks like we have people not done with season 5 yet

While he was trying to help Dawn escape Glory told him that if Dawn got away he'd be stuck with her forever, but if the ritual was completed he didn't have to die so he betrayed Dawn

# ¿ Jun 23, 2009 03:29

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

Abe posted:

Wait, what? How would that have worked?

Not very well, which is why the idea was scrapped before anything was even written about the season. When people mention alternate story lines nine out of ten times it was just an idea they threw up the board during a brainstorming session in the writers room.

# ¿ Jul 2, 2009 04:17

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

PriorMarcus posted:

The narrative still has massive plot holes, and brining angels into the Slayerverse really muddies the waters for everything that's come before and the involvement of the Powers.

That was the only part of Aftermath that I actually liked. If The First could take advatage of the balance swing of there being two slayers to do all she did in Season 7 it only makes sense for the PTB to do the same after the massive shift Wolfram and Hart caused.

# ¿ Jul 23, 2009 04:40

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

When you find out Conner was never under Jasmine's spell is when I started changing my opinion of the character. He knows what she looks like, but he doesn't care, she's his daughter. He's going to love her unconditionally and be a better father than Angel or Holtz ever was to him. And that's a big part of why he loses it when he kills her.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2009 14:05

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

zVxTeflon posted:

Spike was fine whenever he wasnt dressed up like some GQ model deuchebag.

Counterpoint. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYXO1-qgVAc

# ¿ Feb 27, 2010 14:05

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

Sounds like a bad time to be The Wasp.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2010 21:04

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

AmbassadorFriendly posted:

Apparently they're rebooting. It kinda irks me too because I thought they'd find some great unknown to play Cap and then they pick Chris Evans, who I actually liked as Human Torch. I've seen him try and act dramatic and it doesn't really do anything for me. I also liked Chiklis as Grimm. It was Galactus, Dr. Doom, Invisible Woman, and Mr. Fantastic that made those movies suck.

Then it's really gonna blow your mind when the Captain America movie has the original WWII Human Torch in it.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2010 23:36

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

A Big Dark Yak posted:

Plus, it's pretty much the height of insane troll logic to have someone ask "Hey, I need to know just in case, is the show actually coming back?", get answered with "Well, it totally 100% was in secret, but then you wanted to know and now it's not!" and blame the cancellation on the first party.

Actually it was more Joss wanted to know immediately, right then and there, if they would get renewed, unable to commit to a renewal in January to a show that was limping along ratings wise and still not making much money after it's budget was cut by 1/3 he went with cancel. A month later the same president quit and was replaced by one of Angel's supporters in the network but Joss had already burned all his bridges. Of course this could be colored by the staff's resentment towards him since he hadn't had anything to do with the show for two years, comes back in, and starts making those demands of the network.

Gassire fucked around with this message at Jun 6, 2010 around 03:01

# ¿ Jun 6, 2010 02:59

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

That's the urban legend, supposedly he was pissed she concealed her pregnancy until after the first half of the season had been shot because he wouldn't have given her such a pivotal role if he knew.

# ¿ Jun 7, 2010 09:33

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

LividLiquid posted:

I also forgot about Daft Punk. So it's been around since at least 96. Probably much earlier.

The tech's been around for like 30 years, it used to be used as a type of SONAR.

# ¿ Jun 11, 2010 23:24

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

Nemo posted:

The whole gypsy curse doesn't even make sense as revenge if you think about it.

They curse him with a soul so he'll feel bad about what he did. They knew he'd need a soul to feel remorse. Why then did they include a trigger to remove the soul? Once he was souless, would he really care what he lost? Plus they're unleashing the same monster that killed all their people. How is that helping?

Just seems like a major dick move that wasn't really thought out that well.

A better curse would be to remove the soul of anyone he becomes perfectly happy with, and TELL HIM ABOUT THE CATCH. That way he'd live forever knowing he can't ever be happy, and he'll always care enough for that to hurt.

Even Joss admits the whole thing wasn't very thought out. The whole show was supposed to be an inversion of the cheerleader has sex and suffers for it horror trope. But it took until season 5 to Joss to realize how badly he was punishing Buffy every time she had sex.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2010 02:22

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

Gordon Shumway posted:

I thought the sex with Angel making him lose his soul was another girl growing up and living through high school metaphor for sleeping with a guy can turn him into a total dick.

Right, like I said he was trying to subvert the trope of people getting punished for premarital sex, and the first that happens after she has sex is some blonde gets killed. The show doesn't mention Buffy having sex without some horrible consequence until like season six. Joss explains it better on the commentary for the episode she sleeps with Angel.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2010 01:52

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

redshirt posted:

And wouldn't Jasmine and The First had to have either been in conflict or in accord, seeing as how they were only separated by a hundred miles or so as each tried to conquer the world. Seems like the kind of thing that might come up quick on a list of your "Conquering the World" agenda.

It's implied that when when Darla shows up to Connor in Season 4 it's actually The First.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2010 21:48

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

bobkatt013 posted:

Its a joke about the movie process. I mean they made Gun into Hurley from Lost.

Yeah the whole annual is Michael Bay's After the Fall. The very first page has a T-Rex cursing god for killing his wife and being turned into the very first vampire.

# ¿ Aug 22, 2010 20:05

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

Tupping Liberty posted:

Is that Buffy reboot still in the works somewhere? I wonder how they'll deal with this stuff. On the one hand, cell phones would be a huge asset, but on the other hand, the age of video surveillance would make it pretty hard.

It's less a reboot and more that the people who own the movie rights want to make a new movie that has nothing to do with anything Whedon.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2010 16:09

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

Makes me want to make a youtube video comparing certain scenes from Firefly and Outlaw Star while Smashmouth is playing.

# ¿ Sep 13, 2010 23:24

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

Assless Chaps posted:

Angel or Angelus? Care to explain a bit, for those of us (me) who don't read the comics?

Neither really, Angel and Buffy get chosen to create a new universe. They do so by loving in outer space, they then abandon it to save their friends. The universe gets pissed and possesses Angel to steal a giant magical gem that's the source of all magic in the world. Giles gets in the way and get's his neck snapped Calendar style.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2011 16:48

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

Argue posted:

In the Angel comics Illyria went into heat and the pheromones made Angel have a three-way with Kate and a half-panther lady.

Never trust a writer whose big break was from writing porn comics.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2011 04:06

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# ¿ May 24, 2013 23:33

Gassire: Dec 30, 2004; "They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

bobkatt013 posted:

Connor. Bones is no Mad Men

No but lead in mildly successful network TV show trumps lower secondary character in on a critical darling.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2011 00:55

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