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BurningCourage
Mar 13, 2007


STOP THE PRESSES

Our benevolent overlords Namco-Bandai USA have decreed that a Tales game will actually be released outside of Japan! That game being Tales of Graces F, the version of Tales of Graces that the PS3 received. There's been nothing mentioned about the details of the localisation other than "it's coming" so we'll undoubtedly receive more news soon.

For those unfamiliar with Tales, this is HUGE news. Since Tales of Vesperia, Namco lost hope in the series's chances outside of Japan and totally stopped localising them until now. If you enjoy Tales games at all, make sure to buy ToGF when it gets released!

Splash page announcing it
TOGF Facebook page setup by Namco, more specifically new community manager Filthierich

No details on whether it's the PS3 version or the rumoured Wii version+PS3 content that Namco were apparently working on.

BurningCourage fucked around with this message at Feb 2, 2011 around 21:46

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Rei_
May 16, 2004

The difference between confinement and rest is a shift in perspective


Tales of Destiny was one of my first RPGs on the PSX, and I loved the rest of the series... I'm currently slogging through Tales of Symphonia, trying to finish it before Vesperia comes out.

Oh, does anyone know where I can get the Abyss US opening? Where they replaced the vocals with guitar?

BurningCourage
Mar 13, 2007


More info on ToH's battle system thanks to someone on the TOSF:


Emotional Gauge:
Consecutively using things like normal attacks and skills consumes this gauge. Finishing a series of actions will cause the gauge to automatically recover. Using the gauge a lot will increase the number of actions and decrease defense power. Using the gauge a little will cause the opposite. Also, the character's feelings will have an influenece on the gauge.

So think the CC gauge, but with a couple of new twists.

Combination Gauge:
When in battle you can call someone to help a party member or other things, this gauge shows your trust of a party member. This gauge is consumed by using a non-battle party memeber for backup, this is called a "Connect Command". Calling for help will cause a backup character to come in and join together with someone to perform a combination attack.

There are nine different elemental attributes. Obviously, attacking these weak points causes larger damage to be done. Attacking these attributes causes the damge amount, hit ratio, and critical ratio to go up.

Samurai Sanders
Nov 4, 2003



I love Tales games, though some much more than others. Also, I must be the only one who loved Legendia, and especially Norma. She must have had a terrible VA in English to make people who played that version hate her.

I hope to God that Tales of Hearts is good, because the two outsourced DS Tales game were aaargh. The first was downright terrible, and the second showed moments of brilliance but at the same time had some horrible design decisions that somehow made me hate it more.

edit: the Tales of Symphonia sequel was a disappointment for me. There are only two real main characters, and both of them are annoying as hell. Also, the combat controls are bizarrely unresponsive compared to every other Tales game, which I have no explanation for.

Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at Aug 21, 2008 around 00:09

Overbite
Jan 24, 2004

Oh, there's a little trick to opening this cart.


If Tales of Hearts comes out in NA what version would they bring over, the anime or cg? Maybe both?

Kauka
Jan 23, 2005



Can I post here if I don't appreciate the games? I promise I'll be constructive! I really just want to understand why you think these games are good, the combat always feels like buttonmashing to me and the story has never managed to captivate me. I haven't played all of them but I've tried maybe 2-3 of the games on different systems.

Ornamented Death
Jan 25, 2006

I'M A DRAGON! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!

Kauka posted:

... but I've tried maybe 2-3 of the games on different systems.

Which three did you play? That could make ALL the difference.

Kauka
Jan 23, 2005



Ornamented Death posted:

Which three did you play? That could make ALL the difference.

Uhm I'm not really sure to be honest. I know I played Tales of Phantasia, and maybe Symphonia.

Rei_
May 16, 2004

The difference between confinement and rest is a shift in perspective


Was Symphonia the one with the guy who wore the red jacket with two swords? It really depends on how sappy you like your RPGs, because that'll only ever be the real major difference in Tales games. They all have SIMILAR worlds with similar levels of technology and 'lol religion is evil' overtones. The only difference is if the love interest is a bitch or a mute girl who writes love letters in your palm. Each game REFINES the combat system further, and introduces a few twists on weapons/magic.. Beyond that they largely all play the same.

My favorite still has to be Abyss because it featured Jade, the worlds' biggest prick. I swear to GOD he was such a loving DOUCHEBAG, it was awesome.

Rei_ fucked around with this message at Aug 21, 2008 around 00:49

grantsnx
Mar 11, 2006
Forget Regret

I've been playing Tales of Innocence on the DS lately (even though I don't speak any Japanese.) It's basically just Tales of the Abyss portable, but it does seem really easy.

I've also been playing Abyss lately but the game can be boring because I lost my save and I miss having full Sunlight chambers in every skill that can have them. FOF effects flying everywhere is awesome.

BARRY CHUCKLE
Apr 16, 2005

my names barry! you may know me as the better one of the chuckle brothers! we are the greatest comedy act ever and if you disagree we'll come and do your plumbing!


I'm replaying Abyss right now, right before the last boss and as this is my second time through I've been doing a bunch of sidequests I missed like getting the flightstones, Muei Fire 2 and also Muei Wing which is easily missed. I've been having even more fun with the battle system this time, unlocking longer combo AD Skills and being able to chain base to arcane and so on. All I wish is that the story in general was better but it's still tolerable by jrpg standards and the characters (mostly Jade, Luke and Asch) are interesting and are developed well through the story. My biggest problem is that the whole middle section of the story is complete nonsense and nothing that happens ever has any weight and also the Order of Lorelei's command structure makes no sense whatsoever.



Kauka posted:

Uhm I'm not really sure to be honest. I know I played Tales of Phantasia, and maybe Symphonia.

Just so you know Phantasia doesn't count, the battle system is antiquated compared to the modern Symphonia/Abyss/Vesperia system or any of the others and the game isn't really enjoyable anymore.

Ornamented Death
Jan 25, 2006

I'M A DRAGON! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!

BARRY CHUCKLE posted:

Just so you know Phantasia doesn't count, the battle system is antiquated compared to the modern Symphonia/Abyss/Vesperia system or any of the others and the game isn't really enjoyable anymore.

Phantasia is fine so long as you're not playing the godawful GBA port.

Kauka
Jan 23, 2005



Ornamented Death posted:

Phantasia is fine so long as you're not playing the godawful GBA port.

I think I played a hacked translated ROM.

Samurai Sanders
Nov 4, 2003



I have to say that while I love Tales games, I almost never like their stories, they are either inane or complete nonsense (like other JRPG stories, but even more so). I think of them as only a framework for silly character interactions to be built on.

Adam Bowen
Jan 6, 2003


Kauka posted:

Can I post here if I don't appreciate the games? I promise I'll be constructive! I really just want to understand why you think these games are good, the combat always feels like buttonmashing to me and the story has never managed to captivate me. I haven't played all of them but I've tried maybe 2-3 of the games on different systems.

Same. I've put some time into ToP, Destiny, and Symphonia. The combat is the real problem for me, it's just pounding on the attack (or special attack) button and it never feels like you have all that much control over what's happening. Real-time battles aren't necessarily a bad idea, but real time from a side-scrolling perspective just doesn't work. I could definitely have gotten into ToP if I had played it back in the SNES days, but since then the novelty of a real-time RPG isn't that big of a deal anymore. And the storylines seem about on par with an episode of Inuyasha. I really enjoy all of the games visually though. It's one of the main things that makes me keep trying them.

BARRY CHUCKLE
Apr 16, 2005

my names barry! you may know me as the better one of the chuckle brothers! we are the greatest comedy act ever and if you disagree we'll come and do your plumbing!


Ornamented Death posted:

Phantasia is fine so long as you're not playing the godawful GBA port.

Well if you're playing the PSX version then it's way better than Destiny but it's still not worth it unless you've already played the better Tales games. Eternia is the earliest one I'd recommend playing to someone who isn't familiar with the games and even then Abyss or Symphonia are much better.

KariOhki
Apr 22, 2008


I played Phantasia (SNES version) for about two hours out of boredom one day as training before I started Symphonia. It was fun, but I don't see myself going back to it anytime soon.

Symphonia...I really only bought and played it because of the sequel coming soon. It had to have been the most cliched RPG I've ever played. By the end of the game I was throwing my hands up in the air and screaming "What next?!" after every twist. But I think this just made me like the game more

I own the PS2 director's cut of Destiny, but haven't played it yet, mainly because I don't feel like going through a Japanese game. Vesperia makes me want to buy a 360.

Xenix
Feb 21, 2003


BARRY CHUCKLE posted:

Well if you're playing the PSX version then it's way better than Destiny but it's still not worth it unless you've already played the better Tales games. Eternia is the earliest one I'd recommend playing to someone who isn't familiar with the games and even then Abyss or Symphonia are much better.

Ug. Eternia was so boring. I don't get all the Phanasia hate. It's been the only game in the series I really liked. All 3 PSX games were so-so to bad, Symphonia didn't grab me, and neither has Abyss so far. Maybe I just liked the team that put it together better than the rest of the games. Kinda sucks, in a way, that they went and did their own thing after Phantasia. Then again, I like a decent amount what Tri-Ace has put out since then.

BanjoFish
Nov 24, 2007


I just finished playing Abyss at the recommendation of people in the Vesperia thread a few weeks back. I really like the battle system, and the concept of the story was cool, but really clumsilly presented.

Are Tales games always really slow to start? It took 10 hours or so for Symphonia to get going, and even longer for Abyss. I definitely enjoyed Symphonia a little more, but for me, Abyss does have one thing over Symphonia:

Rei_ posted:

Jade, the worlds' biggest prick. I swear to GOD he was such a loving DOUCHEBAG, it was awesome.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005

CG: IT'S ME AGAIN, ASSHOLE
CG: THE ONE WHO HATES YOU, REMEMBER?


I've only played Symphonia to the end, but I really enjoyed it, despite the pretty silly plot. If I had to say why I liked it, it'd probably be that the whole game feels very polished and ultimately satasifying. The world(s) are large and have lots of places to explore with lots of sidequests, the dungeons fairly well constructed with some genuinely decent puzzles that help break it ever so slightly away from the extreme linearity found in many JRPG dungeons, the battle systems are fast paced and allow just enough action-based control that it seems "different" from any other RPG yet familiar enough that you still feel like you're having a solid strategic/tactical RPG experience, and finally while the stories are relatively simple and even silly they still feel like a lot of charm and soul went into their construction. Chrono Trigger has, by all accounts, a cliche-filled, silly plot, but it's almost tongue-in-cheek and has so much charm that it's still fun and adventurous. I got that same feeling from Symphonia and what little I've played of the others. All of these little, nice things come together to make an all around solid experience in a genre that usually only requires one glaring fault for it to sour for a given player.

I currently have Tales of the Abyss in my rather large queue of games lined up, but before that I'll probably tackle the PSX version of Tales of Phantasia. I'd like to get both of those out of the way before I try Vesperia, which is looking to be the biggest and best of them all.

Overbite
Jan 24, 2004

Oh, there's a little trick to opening this cart.


I've played Phantasia, Destiny, Eternia, Symphonia, Legendia, Tempest, and Abyss. The only ones I've finished are Symphonia, Legendia, and Abyss. Out of those Abyss is the best mostly because of Jade.

I don't plan on ever playing Tempest again because it's so bad and because it's in Japanese. I'm right at the end of Destiny and probably should get around to finishing it. Someday.

Skychrono
May 11, 2007

I'll make you cry like I did when my daddy died!


Ever since I got to college I rarely finish games, but Abyss is one of the few exceptions I've made - once I made it past the maybe five hour barrier I was hooked. It really is an incredible game, and has a lot of the highlights of Tales Of games in general - namely characters that you can actually care about.

I have trouble playing NON Tales games, now, because the characters aren't talking to each other enough. Some games have things like that - campfires in Breath of Fire 3, emotion events in Star Ocean 2 - but in most Final Fantasy games, the lack of dialog makes the characters seem empty (...which they are, but that isn't my point).

Skyelan
Sep 17, 2007

Beauty is in the kawaii of the beholder


Like others have said, the primary reason I love Tales games is the characters, and a bonus if it has one of the more entertaining battle systems. They're always kind of cliche (Especially Symphonia), yet they feel so much more fleshed out because depending on how much you let yourself view skits, there's constant back and forth, you know how they think and feel about everything going on, about eachother, and most of the stuff about them casually talking about stuff even outside the plot, so it's not like a constant string of exposition and downer angst and crap. They interact more with eachother, when in most RPGs all you know is how characters mesh with the main character and they could be basically nonexistent to eachother.

Abyss is definitely my favorite, for the aforementioned genius of angst-ruining that is Jade, and for the many genre-defying story concepts it introduced like (Huge spoilers, do not mouse over this poo poo if you haven't played) The party not putting up with Luke's bullshit ever, and when he fucks up big they throw up their hands and go 'Screw it, you're worthless, selfish, gullible, and a liability, and you caused the death of innocent people with your crap. Go gently caress yourself', topping it off with not just instantly going 'Oh okay, well, since you're sorry, welcome back'. They berated and doubted his 'change' as much as anyone would. Which in turn lead to the main character becoming likable, and then changing again when he realizes being too selfless made him just as frustrating.

The final boss NOT transforming into a giant monster of doom and ancient evil, just getting his clothes torn, letting down his hair, and throwing himself at you again. This is loving unheard of in jRPGs since practically the conception.


And of course the aforementioned Jade. Nothing helps plot stutters quite like someone who will knowingly make fun of every stereotype they act out and confess he just wants to drive 'you youngsters' insane while he can.

Symphonia is still the best starting point and my recommendation for anyone who hasn't played a Tales game though, so long as you expect a ton of cliches and massively telegraphed plot twists. As suggested, it gets to the point where I'm not sure the whole story isn't a lovingly crafted parody.

vvv I guess I just don't understand how disliking the cast and story doesn't make someone like Jade MORE. He spends all his time making light of drama and wangst, mocking everyone around him, and all around being a dick in response to stupidity. But that's just me. vv

Skyelan fucked around with this message at Aug 21, 2008 around 04:54

mune
Sep 23, 2006


Wow, if Tales of the Abyss is the best game of the series, I am staying far, far away from everything else in this series.

Tales of the Abyss had one of the worst storylines ever. I appreciate the effort but it really was terrible. Jade Curtiss, a good character? Please, there were no good characters in that game. If it had an event skip it may have been tolerable, but I finished it just to say that I finished it. I would say that the extra scenes you could view if you pressed select were the best parts of the game.

I really don't see how someone could say Tales of the Abyss had a good story. It had a good battle system, one which took far too long to load on the overworld. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, and that I'm the only one who found this game insufferably retarded with a decent combat system. At least Star Ocean 3 had good characters (if a similarly terrible plot)...

Rei_
May 16, 2004

The difference between confinement and rest is a shift in perspective


Look, if you want to talk about insufferably retarded, I don't think most people finish 80 hour games just to say they finished them and then come into appreciation threads to hate on them.

I mean what the hell? Did you play it just to hate it?

Stow
Feb 14, 2004


I'm thinking you started mashing X/O during your 'I've got to finish this' phase and skipped every aspect of character development in the last half that makes Tales of the Abyss great. Even the villains of Abyss had more meaningful development than the main cast in SO3.

It's fine to hate it, but if you put 60-100 hours into it and really did finish both it and SO3 and still think this you're probably retarded.

grantsnx
Mar 11, 2006
Forget Regret

Skyelan posted:

Abyss is definitely my favorite, for the aforementioned genius of angst-ruining that is Jade, and for the many genre-defying story concepts it introduced like (Huge spoilers, do not mouse over this poo poo if you haven't played) The party not putting up with Luke's bullshit ever, and when he fucks up big they throw up their hands and go 'Screw it, you're worthless, selfish, gullible, and a liability, and you caused the death of innocent people with your crap. Go gently caress yourself', topping it off with not just instantly going 'Oh okay, well, since you're sorry, welcome back'. They berated and doubted his 'change' as much as anyone would. Which in turn lead to the main character becoming likable, and then changing again when he realizes being too selfless made him just as frustrating.



That was definitely one of my favorite parts of Abyss.

Stow posted:

Even the villains of Abyss had more meaningful development than the main cast in SO3.

Yes a lot of them are really sympathetic. Largo is killed by his own daughter and you basically murder Arietta's mom, then her later (she's only a 16 year old girl.)

grantsnx fucked around with this message at Aug 21, 2008 around 05:48

raditts
Feb 21, 2001

The Kwanzaa Bot is here to protect me.

Rei_ posted:

Tales of Destiny was one of my first RPGs on the PSX, and I loved the rest of the series...

It was the first one I played too. I'm pretty disappointed that they decided for whatever reason that we didn't need the PS2 Director's Cut here, though. Are there any third-party translations being done of that one? Because the Youtube videos make it look freakin' awesome.

Samurai Sanders posted:

I love Tales games, though some much more than others. Also, I must be the only one who loved Legendia, and especially Norma. She must have had a terrible VA in English to make people who played that version hate her.

God I hope so. Legendia was one of the worst RPGs I've ever played in my life.

raditts fucked around with this message at Aug 21, 2008 around 05:53

BARRY CHUCKLE
Apr 16, 2005

my names barry! you may know me as the better one of the chuckle brothers! we are the greatest comedy act ever and if you disagree we'll come and do your plumbing!


grantsnx posted:

Yes a lot of them are really sympathetic. Largo is killed by his own daughter and you basically murder Arietta's mom, then her later (she's only a 16 year old girl.)

Then you have Van, who instead of having a believable motive for wanting to create the replica world and destroy the old one has the characters repeatedly point out that he believes what he's doing is right and so on. Not only that, but you find out his reasons like a third of the way through the game and then when you think he's dead he comes back to do more of the same.

I don't like the God-Generals either though, or any of the other villains from the series.

BurningCourage
Mar 13, 2007


The closest we've gotten to an English ToD PS2 is the Phantasian Productions guy doing a test screen to prove that he could do it eventually

Speaking of him, the ToP PS1 script that was the last roadblock in his epic struggle to get his ToP patch done is 100% complete, now he just has to edit and test it.

http://www.tales-cless.org/

BARRY CHUCKLE
Apr 16, 2005

my names barry! you may know me as the better one of the chuckle brothers! we are the greatest comedy act ever and if you disagree we'll come and do your plumbing!


BurningCourage posted:

The closest we've gotten to an English ToD PS2 is the Phantasian Productions guy doing a test screen to prove that he could do it eventually

Speaking of him, the ToP PS1 script that was the last roadblock in his epic struggle to get his ToP patch done is 100% complete, now he just has to edit and test it.

http://www.tales-cless.org/

I got the Director's Cut SE ToD off Ebay because I liked the box and felt like buying something exotic (ie. in Japanese since I'm some sort of otaku enjoyable human being). It's way too complicated though, there's a bunch of stuff you can stick on your Swordian for upgrades and all the items and artes and everything mean you have to keep looking at the translations (or running my monitor in that splitscreen type thing)

I might get Destiny 2 some time since that's their second project although I expect I won't be playing it until 2020. Also Rebirth if they ever get to that.

Armitage
Aug 16, 2005

"Mathman is not here." "Oh? Where is he?" "He's in the Mathroom."

Ornamented Death posted:

Phantasia is fine so long as you're not playing the godawful GBA port.

What was wrong with the GBA port? I beat it and really liked it, despite it having possibly the most annoying random encounter monster in any jRPG to date(Magus. gently caress you Magus.)

I'm not sure if counting a random encounter near the end of one of these games counts as a spoiler, but I figured I'd spoiler it just to be safe.

Armitage fucked around with this message at Aug 21, 2008 around 14:14

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005

CG: IT'S ME AGAIN, ASSHOLE
CG: THE ONE WHO HATES YOU, REMEMBER?


I'm thinking of going through Symphonia again someday (trying for new titles and whatever), but one thing that always bothered me is that I never got to fight Abyssion after I got all the Devil's Arms. He wasn't where he was supposed to be when I checked at the end of the game, so I figured I had somehow missed out on the quest. Is that quest only completable for a limited time?

Sub-Actuality
Apr 17, 2007

And if you stare for too long into the abyss, the abyss stares back into you.


I haven't seen Tales of the World: Radiant Mythology (PSP) mentioned here - can anyone recommend for or against it?

CloseFriend
Aug 21, 2002

Un malheur ne vient jamais seul.


Phantasia is actually my favorite of all the ones that I've played. For some reason, I really, really love the character designs in that game, whereas in the other Tales games I usually think they're either too garish (Destiny, Eternia) or too boring (Symphonia). I actually thought the battle system felt very natural, especially in the PSX version.

I actually have the Japanese Destiny Director's Cut and Destiny 2; I need to get on those. The former actually has a separate quest from Leon's point of view that I was meaning to check out.

Sebadoh Gigante
Jun 28, 2008



Rei_ posted:

Was Symphonia the one with the guy who wore the red jacket with two swords? It really depends on how sappy you like your RPGs, because that'll only ever be the real major difference in Tales games. They all have SIMILAR worlds with similar levels of technology and 'lol religion is evil' overtones. The only difference is if the love interest is a bitch or a mute girl who writes love letters in your palm. Each game REFINES the combat system further, and introduces a few twists on weapons/magic.. Beyond that they largely all play the same.

My favorite still has to be Abyss because it featured Jade, the worlds' biggest prick. I swear to GOD he was such a loving DOUCHEBAG, it was awesome.
Yes it was Symphonia... also 'lol religion is evil.'

Sebadoh Gigante fucked around with this message at Aug 2, 2010 around 05:54

mune
Sep 23, 2006


Rei_ posted:

Look, if you want to talk about insufferably retarded, I don't think most people finish 80 hour games just to say they finished them and then come into appreciation threads to hate on them.

I mean what the hell? Did you play it just to hate it?

I'm trying to understand what was so great about the story. I played it all the way through hoping it would get better. There were a couple okay parts, like about halfway during the game with (Luke's 'transformation') and I will actually admit that it is a realistic one in that he stumbles along the way and it takes awhile

I didn't finish it to say I finished it. I played through the game twice, actually, because I found the battle system to be pretty good.

I will take a step back and say that I was probably a little too vitriolic. I had just read on these boards earlier that "ABYSS IS SO GREAT GODDDD YOU'VE GOT TO GET IT" and I don't think the result matched my expectations. I would say for a jRPG it was above average, but I really don't think it's the second coming of Christ. Again, these comments aren't directed at posters in this thread but posters of previous threads that made it seem that way.

I really am trying to understand what makes the game so good, though, and honestly that's why I posted in this thread. I feel like many of the characters were ridiculous anime cutout stereotypes. Anise and Jade were the biggest culprits in this category. I feel like Guy, Luke, Tear, Ion, and the villains (especially Ash, Largo and Van ) were the only characters with real development. And I will say that I did skip Anise's scenes as much as possible, because I hate that voice.

Looking back on it, the game is actually pretty good, so I apologize for my scathing remarks earlier- they were admittedly undeserved. That being said, I don't think that any of my comments here were off base at all.

mune fucked around with this message at Aug 21, 2008 around 16:40

Calaveron
Aug 7, 2006



Nate RFB posted:

I'm thinking of going through Symphonia again someday (trying for new titles and whatever), but one thing that always bothered me is that I never got to fight Abyssion after I got all the Devil's Arms. He wasn't where he was supposed to be when I checked at the end of the game, so I figured I had somehow missed out on the quest. Is that quest only completable for a limited time?

Are you sure you have ALL the Devil Arms? Did you go to that snowy city to meet up with that dude? Is your party "complete"? Have you fought Kratos in that one forest and getting all the summons bar Maxwell?

Sub-Actuality
Apr 17, 2007

And if you stare for too long into the abyss, the abyss stares back into you.


mune posted:

I will take a step back and say that I was probably a little too vitriolic. I had just read on these boards earlier that "ABYSS IS SO GREAT GODDDD YOU'VE GOT TO GET IT" and I don't think the result matched my expectations. I would say for a jRPG it was above average, but I really don't think it's the second coming of Christ. Again, these comments aren't directed at posters in this thread but posters of previous threads that made it seem that way.

To be fair, no matter how terrible a game is, at least a few Games posters will absolutely love it and recommend it to everyone. You really have to take everything with a grain of salt and form your own opinions on this stuff, because in the end it all comes down to personal taste.

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Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005

CG: IT'S ME AGAIN, ASSHOLE
CG: THE ONE WHO HATES YOU, REMEMBER?


Calaveron posted:

Are you sure you have ALL the Devil Arms? Did you go to that snowy city to meet up with that dude? Is your party "complete"? Have you fought Kratos in that one forest and getting all the summons bar Maxwell?
Yeah, I FAQ-ed the poo poo out of Symphonia after I beat it and tried to do as many sidequests as possible at the end-game. So I got all of the Devil Arms, went to the supposed location, but oops! Not there. It's been a while since I pulled my save up so I guess it's possible I missed a Devil's Arm (I was sure I hadn't though...), or maybe I got it mixed up and checked the location first and then got the Arms or something stupid like that. If it's not a quest that is time-limited, then that's fine, I'll just do it properly in my next play through.

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