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qwako
Sep 11, 2009
I wish I could read the Bas-Lag trilogy for the first time again :(

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Evfedu
Feb 28, 2007
Even the end of the first one? Christ.

Double Deus Ex Machina I've hunted for thousands of miles to come to you now at Exactly The Right Time so that there's nothing redeeming about this ending.

Enjoy cleaning up after the making GBS threads bug-soul-cripple that the moth wanted to feed on over Motley (going against everything we've been told about how they're attracted to those they've been in proximity to) whilst the Plot Spider sat outside and doop-a-derped.
for not much of a pay-off.

My interest and enjoyment of the book was p. much a bell curve. Does The Scar improve on this?

Turpitude
Oct 13, 2004

Love love love

be an organ donor
Soiled Meat

Evfedu posted:

Even the end of the first one? Christ.

...

My interest and enjoyment of the book was p. much a bell curve. Does The Scar improve on this?

While I disagree with your opinions on Perdido, if you liked even a little bit of it then you'll like The Scar, which is an all around better book.

What I like about Perdido is the fact that it's just a hosed up story in a world full of them, and it doesn't have to have a happy ending because most stories don't. The ending wasn't engineered to make you feel bad, the ending just is what it is. It's not the type of world where a motley crew of steampunk heroes and magicians save the day from the evil empire and ride off to the next adventure in their dirigibles.

Mr.48
May 1, 2007

Evfedu posted:

Even the end of the first one? Christ.

Double Deus Ex Machina I've hunted for thousands of miles to come to you now at Exactly The Right Time so that there's nothing redeeming about this ending.

Enjoy cleaning up after the making GBS threads bug-soul-cripple that the moth wanted to feed on over Motley (going against everything we've been told about how they're attracted to those they've been in proximity to) whilst the Plot Spider sat outside and doop-a-derped.
for not much of a pay-off.

My interest and enjoyment of the book was p. much a bell curve. Does The Scar improve on this?

It might be better in the sense of not having an ending at all as opposed to a crappy cop-out deus ex machina ending. Not a big fan of Mieville, bought the first three Bas-Lag books based on goon hype, ended up disappointed.

Slo-Tek
Jun 8, 2001

WINDOWS 98 BEAT HIS FRIEND WITH A SHOVEL
I suppose it is expected that everything be shadowy, darting, half-seen and multi-dimensional and unknowable whatnot. The grindylow are reasonably creepy, especially since you only get little vignettes between 100 pages of something else.

But when you just read the grindylow stuff back-to-back, it gets a little bit squick-libs. The grindylow have inexplicable...limb farms...and bile factories...and skin libraries. If the book had gone one another 200 pages he would have mentioned three additional [inexplicable][yucky][infrastructure]. Tumor Arenas, and Eyeball Quick-E-Marts.

Shanty
Nov 7, 2005

I Love Dogs

Slo-Tek posted:

I suppose it is expected that everything be shadowy, darting, half-seen and multi-dimensional and unknowable whatnot. The grindylow are reasonably creepy, especially since you only get little vignettes between 100 pages of something else.

But when you just read the grindylow stuff back-to-back, it gets a little bit squick-libs. The grindylow have inexplicable...limb farms...and bile factories...and skin libraries. If the book had gone one another 200 pages he would have mentioned three additional [inexplicable][yucky][infrastructure]. Tumor Arenas, and Eyeball Quick-E-Marts.

China writes it so well, though, that for my money he could have thrown "Tumor arenas" in there and I would have been right loving with him.

Tumors! Fighting tumors!

Probably after a few readings I can see it getting stale, though, but as a lot of people in the thread have talked about, his mystic little hints really work on the first readthrough. Probably since you never know what he's going to expand into a major plot point. I mean Island of the Mosquito People! sounded like the biggest throwaway reference of them all but drat if it didn't become a huge pivot in the story.

Mucktron
Dec 21, 2005

"But I've been twelve for a very long time"
I just finished Perdido Street station and I'm working my way through The Scar. I enjoyed Perdido Street Station, but I find hands-down The Scar to be heads and above Perdido.

I think over-all it's because I didn't really like any of the characters in Perdido but with The Scar I really have become emotionally invested in all of the characters plights. Especially Tanner who's remaking when he's on Armada is one of my favorite scenes so far in the book just because it's so graphic yet so well written.

I did want to address my own thoughts on the ending of Perdido. I think that Issac's choice to not give Yagharek his flight back might not have been the happiest ending and a rather anti-climactic one, but it fits with the books extremely grim tone. To have a happy ending would have felt out of context with the rest of the story.

Issac also makes his choice out of seeing what Lin went through at the hands of Motley and even though the female Garuda tells him that what she went through isn't the same as how he views rape, he still can't help by empathize through Lin.
Secondly, the female Garuda tells him to please respect her people's judgment on Yagharek. Even though he didn't know what Yagharek had done, Issac's choice to agree to help him is what released the slack mouths in the first place. Intentional or not, Issac's caused enough damage to New Crobuzon.

I'm not saying it's the perfect ending, but I see the logic that Mieville had when he wrote it.

Lord Jigger
May 8, 2008

Mucktron posted:

I'm not saying it's the perfect ending, but I see the logic that Mieville had when he wrote it.

The ending is a bit of a downer, and I guess you could justifiably call it anti-climactic, but I too thought it really fit the tone of the book overall, and what happens right at the end makes sense to me.

I just started the Scar and I hope it's as good as everyone says. I'm only about 50 pages in but so far I'm liking the characters.

Mucktron
Dec 21, 2005

"But I've been twelve for a very long time"
Juuuuust finished The Scar last night, and yeah, it's THAT good.

The BIG twist I did not expect was something so amazingly subtle who Bellis's letters were addressed to that it just made the book for me. How the twist was "resolved" at the epilogue was fantastic as well and really showed some key development for that character.

Now to read the Iron Council, though I fear I'm going to be very under-whelmed after how much I loved The Scar.

CrimsonGhost
Aug 9, 2003
Who watches The Watcher?

Mucktron posted:

Now to read the Iron Council, though I fear I'm going to be very under-whelmed after how much I loved The Scar.

The Scar is by far one of my favorite books ever. Iron Council is great but it unfairly had to battle The Scar and nothing really matches up to it. It found a way to blend the new weird and classic lit into a masterpiece.

Turpitude
Oct 13, 2004

Love love love

be an organ donor
Soiled Meat
The Brucolac is the best modern vampire I've read, and I love the idea of the blood tax in his vampire-owned district. I wonder if they drink Vodyanoi and cactus sap? When an ex tried to sass me with some poo poo about Twilight I shoved The Scar in her hands and told her it features REAL vampires--the desperate addict kind!

I also love that Mieville leaves the big fight between Doul and the Brucolac behind closed doors. I also loved the giant naval battle. What a scene, and poor Tanner Sack.

Encryptic
May 3, 2007

Turpitude posted:

I wonder if they drink Vodyanoi and cactus sap?

The cactacae were safe from the anophelii women, so I don't imagine the vampires would have any use for them.

Oasx
Oct 11, 2006

Freshly Squeezed

Mucktron posted:

I'm not saying it's the perfect ending, but I see the logic that Mieville had when he wrote it.

I am surprised when people say they dont like the ending but who else think The Scar is the best of the three books, to me the whole book is a downer. I like the book but the way it ends kinda makes everything you just read meaningless, and that has always been a pet peeve of mine.

Mucktron
Dec 21, 2005

"But I've been twelve for a very long time"
I think The Scar works best when you don't think of it as the story of Armada , but rather the personal changes that Bellis goes through along her journey. That manages to turn the story from :smith: into :unsmith:

LofwyrSai
Jul 19, 2006

Le réalité et toi, vous ne vous entendez pas, n'est-ce pas?
Finished the trilogy today. For some reason I liked PSS the best - perhaps as it had the best horror arch and I enjoyed all the government behind the scenes exposition with the Ruttgutter. Felt like Iron Council was the weakest - I just never cared about any of the characters. Not bad - just not up to the first two books level.

nixar55
Jul 25, 2003

She packed my bags last night. Pre-flight. Zero hour nine a.m. And I'm gonna be high as a kite by then.
God, I still can't get through Iron Council.

I enjoyed Perdido for its atmosphere but agree that the ending was messy. The Scar was amazingly good, tighter. This thread is making me want to read it again. But Iron Council... it's the same problem I had with Perdido. Mieville is more of an idea-driven author than a character-driven one. Some of his characters are great, but it's more about the sense of wonder and awe. A lot of his characters seem like mouthpieces for his ideas than actual, breathing people (or garudas) with real lives. The chapter about Lin creating her art, for example. Iron Council just has so much political stuff in it, just so unsubtle, I couldn't even care about the characters or the plot.

But I really loved The City & The City. Fascinating main characters, mysterious, suspenseful plot, and containing a lot of trademark Mieville weirdness, but much more focused.

Can't wait for Kraken in May. Between that and the new Ian McDonald in July, I predict some great reading this summer.

SaviourX
Sep 30, 2003

The only true Catwoman is Julie Newmar, Lee Meriwether, or Eartha Kitt.

Bleh, after the intensity and sheer delight I got out of Council (political comments aside, which is a really weak excuse to not like a book, btw, especially since they were in PSS too), TC&TC was just so much pretentious 'but which of us is, like, real... man...' posturing mixed up in stilted dialogue that wanted to be Chandler-like but wasn't, I barely even finished it.

Still in the early stages of The Scar, and while I freely admit that one shouldn't read these books for character, the imagination and style behind them are excellent.

nixar55
Jul 25, 2003

She packed my bags last night. Pre-flight. Zero hour nine a.m. And I'm gonna be high as a kite by then.
I don't get how it's weak to not enjoy one-note characters. I didn't like them in PSS and I didn't like them in IC. There were just more characters like that in IC.

What I liked about The City & The City was that is was different in tone from the three very sprawling novels before it. It was a quick, weird read. I liked the main character and his counterpart in the other city. I didn't find it pretentious, I thought it was similar in themes to things he touched on in PSS and IC, but was more allegorical, so it felt more natural.

Mucktron
Dec 21, 2005

"But I've been twelve for a very long time"
Sadly, as much as I raved about The Scar. I cannot get through IC. When I look back though, I think The Scar worked because it's character base was MUCH smaller then IC, which lead to an easier time to expand and develop them. With IC, I felt like Mieville was throwing the entire ensemble with a manic-like style, which of course lead me to not care about -anyone- in the book. Where as, in The Scar, I sincerely enjoyed and cared about all the characters.

SaviourX
Sep 30, 2003

The only true Catwoman is Julie Newmar, Lee Meriwether, or Eartha Kitt.

I think I'm going to have to reconcile the fact that I like fragmented narratives that have a lot more to do with imagery and language than they do with actual character, because I still love the gently caress out of IC. And as someone that has actually read both a lot of fantasy and literary works (and political, post-colonial ones at that), I can say that Mieville bringing in his own views on things is fine and doesn't bother me much at all, because it's a loving novel and what an author brings to a novel (one who can write, anyway, opposed to Ayn Rand) isn't going to annoy or irritate me if done well.

P much I don't always read books for strong characters, sorry writing classes, I'm sorry. If I had to care about the people in books, I'd have stopped reading long ago.

Hedrigall
Mar 27, 2008

by vyelkin

SaviourX posted:

I think I'm going to have to reconcile the fact that I like fragmented narratives that have a lot more to do with imagery and language than they do with actual character, because I still love the gently caress out of IC.

As much as i love good characters (which is why Harry Potter is one of my favourite series ever), IC appealed to me pretty much why you said. I can never decide whether IC or The Scar is my favourite. Usually depends on which of them I last read. Speaking of which, I'm going to re-read The Scar soon...

Hedrigall
Mar 27, 2008

by vyelkin
:siren: TONS OF KRAKEN INFO :siren:

Well here is a fuckload of new information about Kraken courtesy of Amazon.com. The following may constitute minor spoilers:

Amazon.com posted:

With this outrageous new novel, China Miéville has written one of the strangest, funniest, and flat-out scariest books you will read this—or any other—year. The London that comes to life in Kraken is a weird metropolis awash in secret currents of myth and magic, where criminals, police, cultists, and wizards are locked in a war to bring about—or prevent—the End of All Things.

In the Darwin Centre at London’s Natural History Museum, Billy Harrow, a cephalopod specialist, is conducting a tour whose climax is meant to be the Centre’s prize specimen of a rare Architeuthis dux—better known as the Giant Squid. But Billy’s tour takes an unexpected turn when the squid suddenly and impossibly vanishes into thin air.

As Billy soon discovers, this is the precipitating act in a struggle to the death between mysterious but powerful forces in a London whose existence he has been blissfully ignorant of until now, a city whose denizens—human and otherwise—are adept in magic and murder.

There is the Congregation of God Kraken, a sect of squid worshippers whose roots go back to the dawn of humanity—and beyond. There is the criminal mastermind known as the Tattoo, a merciless maniac inked onto the flesh of a hapless victim. There is the FSRC—the Fundamentalist and Sect-Related Crime Unit—a branch of London’s finest that fights sorcery with sorcery. There is Wati, a spirit from ancient Egypt who leads a ragtag union of magical familiars. There are the Londonmancers, who read the future in the city’s entrails. There is Grisamentum, London’s greatest wizard, whose shadow lingers long after his death. And then there is Goss and Subby, an ageless old man and a cretinous boy who, together, constitute a terrifying—yet darkly charismatic—demonic duo.

All of them—and others—are in pursuit of Billy, who inadvertently holds the key to the missing squid, an embryonic god whose powers, properly harnessed, can destroy all that is, was, and ever shall be.

It sounds just incredible. I can't wait!

RoboCicero
Oct 22, 2009

"I'm sick and tired of reading these posts!"
I am positively giddy. Sounds like a return to the "olde-style" type of books -- though that's not surprising, since I think I read in this thread that he wrote The City and The City for his dying mother. 480 pages of Mieville-style horror :dance:

plumpy hole lever
Aug 8, 2003

♥ Anime is real ♥

Hedrigall posted:

:siren: TONS OF KRAKEN INFO :siren:

Well here is a fuckload of new information about Kraken courtesy of Amazon.com. The following may constitute minor spoilers:


It sounds just incredible. I can't wait!



Getting a major Pratchett vibe from this.

Pratchett-esque humour coming from Mieville would be pretty much the best thing ever.

Notahippie
Feb 4, 2003

Kids, it's not cool to have Shane MacGowan teeth

soag.242 posted:

Getting a major Pratchett vibe from this.

Pratchett-esque humour coming from Mieville would be pretty much the best thing ever.

It also sounds to me like a weird version of Foucault's Pendulum. Which is also awesome.

Mucktron
Dec 21, 2005

"But I've been twelve for a very long time"

soag.242 posted:

Getting a major Pratchett vibe from this.

Pratchett-esque humour coming from Mieville would be pretty much the best thing ever.

Especially because I've described Mieville's Bas-Lag world as "Discworld meets Peter Jackson's Meet the Feebles" It takes the "Wow! This is my magical world filled with wonderious races and lands!" notion and fills it with violence, horror and lots and lots of poop.

Shanty
Nov 7, 2005

I Love Dogs

Hedrigall posted:

:siren: TONS OF KRAKEN INFO :siren:

Well here is a fuckload of new information about Kraken courtesy of Amazon.com. The following may constitute minor spoilers:


It sounds just incredible. I can't wait!

If he pulls this off it'll be my favourite book of all time, but I can't help but feel that he's going a little TOO all out with the new weird stereotypes. "a branch of London’s finest that fights sorcery with sorcery" in particular sounds uncomfortably close to fanfiction territory.

On the other hand, he's never given me cause to doubt his capabilities with stuff like this so I'll be cautiously looking forward to reading it!

StabbedUp
Aug 23, 2009
I read Looking for Jake about a year ago and have just finished King Rat and Perdido Street Station.

Looking for Jake was good but not great for me. Lots of wierdness but nothing really eye-opening. He builds tension well.

King Rat I absolutely loved. His talent for wierdness and tension-building works much better in the novel format. Where in Looking for Jake I had only just got my head around the story's props before it finished King Rat really drew me in and had me invested in the hero.

Perdido Street Station grew on me. For a while it seemed pointless odd but once acclimatised I found myself fascinated by the drama. I like the way he uses allusions. The moths seemed an allusion to the film Aliens and an ingenious retelling of that story.

If people haven't picked up a Mieville book yet I would suggest King Rat as a starting point.

Turpitude
Oct 13, 2004

Love love love

be an organ donor
Soiled Meat

StabbedUp posted:

Perdido Street Station grew on me. For a while it seemed pointless odd but once acclimatised I found myself fascinated by the drama. I like the way he uses allusions. The moths seemed an allusion to the film Aliens and an ingenious retelling of that story.

Definitely, I would say the whole Greenhouse sequence in Perdido was a huge wink to Aliens. I enjoyed much of the book in the same spirit!

King Rat is great I agree, I also enjoyed how about half the book is this giant chase scene. It's a very fun and quick read.

Notahippie
Feb 4, 2003

Kids, it's not cool to have Shane MacGowan teeth

Turpitude posted:

Definitely, I would say the whole Greenhouse sequence in Perdido was a huge wink to Aliens. I enjoyed much of the book in the same spirit!

King Rat is great I agree, I also enjoyed how about half the book is this giant chase scene. It's a very fun and quick read.

Personally, I can't stand King Rat. The basic idea is fun, but it's too obviously some kind of weird fanfic to the 90's rave scene. The surprise "In drum and bass, you don't dance to the melody. You dance to the BASS" bit made me roll my eyes so hard they almost fell out of my head. It just seemed like an extension of the weird self-importance that people really really into a music scene often develop.

fliptophead
Oct 2, 2006
Just wanting to chime in: I've read the Bas-Lag novels as well as UnLunDun - now looking for copies of the rest of China's books.

I've recently started Stephen Hunt's "Court of the Air", which strikes me as a YA cross between Philip Pullman and China Mieville and is currently scratching my Bas-Lag itch.

Anyone else read this? The basic premise of the book can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Court_of_the_Air

Dekenai
Mar 11, 2009

Recently started "Court of the Air" - liking it so far, but I'm less than 100 pages into it... I also have his other two, "Kingdom Beyond the Waves" and "Rise of the Iron Moon", which I'll be tackling next ("Philip Pullman with a dose of benzedrine", reads a review excerpt on the back cover, which sounds interesting). Might report and review when (if?) I finish...

I'm also trying to drag my kids into steampunk via Hunt's "Cloudchasers" books, with partial success. The 9 year old daughter likes them, so I might try her on "Un Lun Dun" when her attention span has increased a bit.

And my mum preordered "Kraken" for me for my birthday - hurry up, May!

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

The Court of the Air is loving terrible. It's a ridiculous, bloated mess of a book that makes very little coherent sense. Hunt has a good imagination but he just crams as much poo poo in as possible with no idea of pacing or flow. Towards the end I had no idea who was doing what, and I no longer cared. It was like watching the third Pirates of the Caribbean movie. He's no China Mieville, and he's definitely no Philip Pullman.

Also I have no idea why anyone would bother writing a critical allegory about the evils of communism in loving 2007.

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

Dekenai posted:

Recently started "Court of the Air" - liking it so far, but I'm less than 100 pages into it...

Ahahaha buckle the gently caress up.

If you want your kids to read fantastic steampunk, get them onto Philip Reeve's "Mortal Engines" series.

fliptophead
Oct 2, 2006

freebooter posted:

The Court of the Air is loving terrible. It's a ridiculous, bloated mess of a book that makes very little coherent sense. Hunt has a good imagination but he just crams as much poo poo in as possible with no idea of pacing or flow. Towards the end I had no idea who was doing what, and I no longer cared. It was like watching the third Pirates of the Caribbean movie. He's no China Mieville, and he's definitely no Philip Pullman.

Fair call - it was lacking in the character development, but in terms of an action-packed storyline you can hardly fault it. Look at it from the perspective of a young teen though and you'll find it ticks all the right boxes :)

I'd rather my kids read that than left behind or something...

Plus it'll get them ready for the kick in the pants of Pullman, then all the rest that follow!

I'll admit I had trouble keeping track of all the characters, but it got me through my boring daily commute. And THAT is all that matters...

remigious
May 13, 2009

Destruction comes inevitably :rip:

Hell Gem
I just had to chime in and say that The Scar is hands down one of my all time favorites. I had that special tingly feeling when I was reading it that is very rare. It is really hard to explain, but I just knew I had something really special in my hands. It was everything I look for in a novel, it was unlike anything I had ever read before.

Hedrigall
Mar 27, 2008

by vyelkin
:siren: KRAKEN PREVIEW CHAPTER :siren:

You can read Chapter 1 of Kraken here: http://www.panmacmillan.com/extracts/displayPage.asp?PageID=7991

Edit: i'm not going to read it, but I did skim over it briefly, and noticed that the room he's describing is one I've been in :smug:

Hedrigall fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Mar 16, 2010

pantX0r
Jan 7, 2004
hey, back again!

Hedrigall posted:

:siren: KRAKEN PREVIEW CHAPTER :siren:

You can read Chapter 1 of Kraken here: http://www.panmacmillan.com/extracts/displayPage.asp?PageID=7991

Edit: i'm not going to read it, but I did skim over it briefly, and noticed that the room he's describing is one I've been in :smug:

I liked it, the main character seems pretty interesting, and it spoiled less than the description on amazon.

Mucktron
Dec 21, 2005

"But I've been twelve for a very long time"
So far I am very much liking this. Too bad it comes out in the states after it comes out in the UK. Oh well, that is what amazon.uk is for.

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vty
Nov 8, 2007

oh dott, oh dott!
Does Scar take awhile to get going? I'm around 15%(kindle) into it She's at the lovers.. just found out the Johannes guy works for them; and really find it...boring so far. I do like Chinas writing, though. Just not finding much of an interesting story to grab onto.

It's also my first CM book; should I have done them in a different order?

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