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Computer viking posted:Mmh, it's more that the old UI was also an acquired taste for a niche of power users - good for keeping a small and loyal fan base, less so for expanding into the great unwashed masses. I guess moving to a new codebase was seen as a good time to re-target for, well, a lower but more common denominator. How is that expected to work? The only thing Opera had going for it that I can see was that it was a niche product for power users. If Opera is just a regular browser like any other then why shouldn't anyone just use Firefox or Chrome, which have far greater name recognition and are explicitly supported by most websites?
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Jun 27, 2014 01:25
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Tiggum posted:How is that expected to work? The only thing Opera had going for it that I can see was that it was a niche product for power users. If Opera is just a regular browser like any other then why shouldn't anyone just use Firefox or Chrome, which have far greater name recognition and are explicitly supported by most websites? Good question, really. Then again, why should anyone use chrome when IE11 is fine? I think they're going for "nicer, smarter UI" plus the compression system (offroad mode). It also identifies as something close enough to chromium that near enough all sites treat it as chrome, so the compatibility problem is mostly solved. Given that very few people actually use more than a couple of bookmarks, and even fewer use mouse gestures, it's probably a competitive alternative to chrome for many users ... shame about having to compete against google's advertising and bundling, of course. There's also the aspect where they make most of their money selling software and services to companies, and the browser is something they do to keep the employees sharp and the brand interesting. (Well, a fair bit of income is also from the mobile ad network they run using some tiny spare fraction of their massive amount of servers and bandwidth.) Computer viking fucked around with this message at 08:38 on Jun 27, 2014 |
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Jun 27, 2014 08:33
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Computer viking posted:Good question, really. Then again, why should anyone use chrome when IE11 is fine? I think they're going for "nicer, smarter UI" plus the compression system (offroad mode). The differences between IE and Chrome are far greater than the differences between Chrome and Opera
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Jun 27, 2014 08:59
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Wheany posted:The differences between IE and Chrome are far greater than the differences between Chrome and Opera Yes, IE11 is by far more usable out of the box.
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Jun 27, 2014 09:23
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Wheany posted:The differences between IE and Chrome are far greater than the differences between Chrome and Opera Sure, though it remains the same problem of "why make the effort to use this other thing when what I have fills the same basic needs". And I really do believe opera and chrome are slowly diverging. There are already small things like the weird bookmarking system(s) in opera, or the sort of nifty tab peek they just added in devel (which goes well with ctrl-tab, though the design idea was to make it easier to pick out the right tab if you have so many ones open that they turn into anonymous little nubs) - or their optional cloud compression "offroad mode".
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Jun 27, 2014 09:31
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I like (metro) IE on my Surface Pro, I use it more than anything else; the reason is pretty simple, the interface is better. It is the exact same reason I use Opera (12) on a desktop, devoid of a touch screen; the interface is better. I start to get annoyed in Chrome (I use it almost daily in a limited manner) and the new Opera pisses me off more because it isn't actually Opera. You mentioned Windows and Office in terms of their long-term code base as examples to moving toward the new Opera, I would like to point out that they do nearly everything possible to maintain backward compatibility even if they drastically change something. I know that my only hope is the Otter browser; given the advancements in a couple months, including windows binaries  , I suspect it is round about a year off of replacing Opera 12 for the masses. Given it is the only upgrade path any Opera 12 users would ever consider, any mention of the Otter browser there?
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Jun 27, 2014 09:42
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EvilMoFo posted:You mentioned Windows and Office in terms of their long-term code base as examples to moving toward the new Opera, I would like to point out that they do nearly everything possible to maintain backward compatibility even if they drastically change something. More in terms of "radical interface changes for debatable reasons". MS are admittedly much better at keeping the keyboard shortcuts working, though. Separately - how much more or less annoying than chrome would new opera have been if it were released under a different name? (A rose by any other name might not get the same reception, etc. Not to imply that it's entirely rosy.) Computer viking fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Jun 27, 2014 |
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Jun 27, 2014 11:10
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There's still a gigantic gap in that Microsoft has a near-monopoly in terms of personal/office OS and office suites whereas Opera had a tiny, niche hold on the browser "market". The Microsoft analogy fails because all Microsoft needs to do is maintain its market share in those software categories instead of expand it.
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Jun 27, 2014 11:17
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Sure - random large changes are way less risky if your userbase have little real choice.
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Jun 27, 2014 11:22
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Computer viking posted:Separately - how much more or less annoying than chrome would new opera have been if it were released under a different name? (A rose by any other name might not get the same reception, etc. Not to imply that it's entirely rosy.) I still wouldn't use it, but it would be way less annoying. I'd still be annoyed that Opera was being discontinued to work on this new browser that was way worse, but calling it the same thing when it very clearly isn't is just obnoxious.
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Jun 27, 2014 11:32
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Computer viking posted:More in terms of "radical interface changes for debatable reasons". MS are admittedly much better at keeping the keyboard shortcuts working, though. If it had been called something else then I would be confused as to why the devs were ditching opera to make chrome. I then would have switched like I did already.
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Jun 27, 2014 12:17
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So I'm upgrading to a new computer, and I'd like to just copy/paste my bookmarks and hopefully, the passwords and poo poo my wand has saved. What files are these, and where the hell does Opera hide them?
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Jun 27, 2014 19:56
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This is probably a stupid question. Why is Opera Next showing a ton of bandwidth usage when it's doing almost nothing? I'll have a dozen 4Chan tabs set to auto-update, and Opera Next will be using 1.5MB/sec. Why?
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Jun 27, 2014 20:26
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Blhue posted:So I'm upgrading to a new computer, and I'd like to just copy/paste my bookmarks and hopefully, the passwords and poo poo my wand has saved. What files are these, and where the hell does Opera hide them? For Opera 12 and down, go to opera:about in your browser and check out the paths. Most of my settings are in C:\Users\<Username>\AppData\Roaming\Opera\Opera\, but mail is in C:\Users\<Username>\AppData\Local for some reason. Interesting files to back up, depending on how much you use those features: bookmarks.adr notes.adr search.ini speeddial.ini wand.dat
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Jun 27, 2014 21:11
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NFX posted:For Opera 12 and down, go to opera:about in your browser and check out the paths. Most of my settings are in C:\Users\<Username>\AppData\Roaming\Opera\Opera\, but mail is in C:\Users\<Username>\AppData\Local for some reason. Cool, thanks. Kind of worrying that copying the wand is as simple as I hoped it would be, but convenient for the time being.
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Jun 27, 2014 21:15
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There are also 3rd party programs that can decrypt the wand file to show you all saved passwords, so uhm, don't use it like KeePass or put it on online storage (unless theres a masterpassword set that might be used for stronger encryption?) Of course if it's offline and someone has direct access to your pc you usually have bigger problems anyway.
RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Jun 27, 2014 |
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Jun 27, 2014 21:23
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Computer viking posted:MacOS 9 vs X Computer viking posted:having to work up brand recognition for something new. Computer viking posted:Separately - how much more or less annoying than chrome would new opera have been if it were released under a different name? Computer viking posted:Oh, and the internal "we'll kill you if you use this in public" codename was opium.  The russian thing though is probably just russians being ballsy and not giving a gently caress.  Computer viking posted:I kind of prefer the chimera allusion in "chromera", though.  Computer viking posted:Mmh, it's more that the old UI was also an acquired taste for a niche of power users - good for keeping a small and loyal fan base, less so for expanding into the great unwashed masses. I guess moving to a new codebase was seen as a good time to re-target for, well, a lower but more common denominator. Computer viking posted:if you have so many ones open that they turn into anonymous little nubs)  Any chance of this ever being possible again in Chromera?
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Jun 28, 2014 11:25
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Quick answers: Rightclick+scroll is apparently one of the top causes of "wtf just happened" among opera 12 users, so it's unlikely to return as an enabled by default thing. I can nag about off-by-default but don't expect wonders. Removing favicons in short tabs is to make it slightly more likely to see what is in the tab - the typical case is apparently that most tabs are from one or two sites, and they feel the favicon is completely useless in that case ... as opposed to a bit of text, which is merely near-useless. I see the usefulness of favicons on your case, but ...
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Jun 28, 2014 12:56
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Blhue posted:So I'm upgrading to a new computer, and I'd like to just copy/paste my bookmarks and hopefully, the passwords and poo poo my wand has saved. What files are these, and where the hell does Opera hide them? http://www.portablefreeware.com/?id=1763 The original page for the tool is now defunct as it was somewhere on My Opera, but it works great.
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Jun 28, 2014 13:01
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Computer viking posted:the typical case is apparently that most tabs are from one or two sites, and they feel the favicon is completely useless in that case ... as opposed to a bit of text, which is merely near-useless. I see the usefulness of favicons on your case, but ... Do what IE does and colour the tabs from the same domain similarly. Also IE11 has by default a menu in the tab bar to let you reopen the last 10 tabs you closed.
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Jun 28, 2014 13:07
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Computer viking posted:Quick answers: Rightclick+scroll is apparently one of the top causes of "wtf just happened" among opera 12 users, so it's unlikely to return as an enabled by default thing. I can nag about off-by-default but don't expect wonders. Computer viking posted:Removing favicons in short tabs is to make it slightly more likely to see what is in the tab - the typical case is apparently that most tabs are from one or two sites, and they feel the favicon is completely useless in that case ... as opposed to a bit of text, which is merely near-useless. I see the usefulness of favicons on your case, but ...
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Jun 28, 2014 13:25
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Computer viking posted:Quick answers: Rightclick+scroll is apparently one of the top causes of "wtf just happened" among opera 12 users, so it's unlikely to return as an enabled by default thing. I can nag about off-by-default but don't expect wonders. Riso posted:Also IE11 has by default a menu in the tab bar to let you reopen the last 10 tabs you closed.
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Jun 28, 2014 15:58
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Are you using a lot of different browser windows? I've never had my Opera lose a closed tab (unless you restart it). Also my version has a button to manually clear the list of closed tabs, unless you rack up 150 closed tabs in 10 minutes that should solve the problems (and you can always access that stuff via history).
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Jun 28, 2014 16:15
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RoadCrewWorker posted:Are you using a lot of different browser windows? RoadCrewWorker posted:Also my version has a button to manually clear the list of closed tabs, unless you rack up 150 closed tabs in 10 minutes that should solve the problems (and you can always access that stuff via history).
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Jun 28, 2014 16:23
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Closed tabs have always stuck to the respective window process and are usually sorted by most recently closed, so unless you close a ton of tabs and then exit the window (and its associated session) you shouldn't lose them that easily. Hell, if you try to get to something you closed hours ago in a different window searching/browsing the history will get you there 100x faster anyway.
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Jun 28, 2014 16:36
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Pure speculation from the guy I talked to: It seems the padding on the narrow tabs is partially to try and nudge people into using more than one window (since it works better both UI and performance-wise). Maybe.
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Jun 28, 2014 20:15
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That makes no sense, the tabs are alraedy sandboxed into their own processes.
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Jun 28, 2014 20:35
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Riso posted:That makes no sense, the tabs are alraedy sandboxed into their own processes. Computer viking posted:Pure speculation from the guy I talked to: It seems the padding on the narrow tabs is partially to try and nudge people into using more than one window (since it works better both UI and performance-wise). Maybe. Here's one more question that might be interesting to answer: When Opera 15 came out and everyone complained about it being literally Chrome, some people, including Haavard made noises about there being a lot of time spent writing a custom gui toolkit. Was that just noise, or what is up with that? Was that done to enable changes in the future that would be impossible with Chrome? Or was it entirely an under-the-hood thing to either satisfy developer aesthetics in the code, or satisfy some targeted performance profile?
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Jun 28, 2014 20:57
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I don't think absolutely everything is held by the tab processes, though. Things like the frozen previews of each tab might well be per-window, and I don't know how they do in-memory caching - or for that matter, which tabs they keep alive in the background. Anyway, the UI part remains true. And no, I wouldn't recommend holding your breath - though I don't know if it's on the roadmap. No idea about the GUI code part either, I can try asking.
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Jun 28, 2014 21:30
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I just installed Opera 23 because an addon said it needed it. Where the gently caress are my options? My settings page has like 5 different choices and there are no preferences, or bookmarks, and I can't enable the menu bar? What the hell is this. Whatever, uninstalling that garbage. Is there a way to upgrade from opera 12.15 to 12.17 without having to manually switch over all the settings and bookmarks etc? Is it worth the effort even? I only bothered because my screenshot extension stopped working in 12.15  .
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Jul 26, 2014 05:37
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Opera (Next) has been really glitchy with the keyboard shortcuts as of late. For example, I will try to search for something (Ctrl+F) and Opera will sometimes randomly switch tabs instead. Also it has become buggy with the embeded videos in forum posts. Like, you can't get the overlay controls to show properly so you can use them.
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Jul 26, 2014 07:37
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AbstractNapper posted:Opera (Next) has been really glitchy with the keyboard shortcuts as of late. For example, I will try to search for something (Ctrl+F) and Opera will sometimes randomly switch tabs instead.
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Jul 26, 2014 08:40
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The mouse gesture UI circle ironically made the gestures glitch. You can turn that off in opera:config. Just search for gesture and uncheck the box for "Show Gesture UI". Gesture threshold also might help if it still happens.
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Jul 26, 2014 16:26
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There's a bookmarks manager in Opera Next; enabled in opera:flags and accessed with opera:bookmarks. You can add bookmarks with the heart button, but there's no UI to get to them afterwards apart from the manager (and perhaps URL bar searching?). No idea where they're going with it.
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Jul 27, 2014 16:45
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I finally gave up and switched to chrome. Good bye sweet princess. 
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Jul 27, 2014 18:24
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omeg posted:I finally gave up and switched to chrome. Good bye sweet princess. Same here. It's something I've been trying to avoid but opera 12 wasn't really cutting the mustard and gesture are gimped in the "opera-chrome" releases. I found an extension for chrome that has some really good gesture support "Smooth Gestures", which has made the move smoother.
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Aug 9, 2014 13:38
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I would wholesale switch to chrome if it would import my bookmarks correctly. For some reason it only gets about 40% of them and loses all of the folder sorting.
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Aug 11, 2014 03:35
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Otter recently added bookmark importing. I don't use it yet and it's still largely unfinished, but maybe there's enough stuff there to try it out?
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Aug 11, 2014 03:43
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TychoCelchuuu posted:Otter recently added bookmark importing. I don't use it yet and it's still largely unfinished, but maybe there's enough stuff there to try it out? So did opera 22/developer, incidentally. I think I mentioned the in-progress bookmarks manager upthread, too.
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Aug 11, 2014 07:58
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Not comparable, because Otter had a bookmark manager after six months.
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Aug 11, 2014 12:14
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