Hot, sweaty, Bullpup love... - The Something Awful Forums

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > The Firing Range > Hot, sweaty, Bullpup love...

Vorlonesque: Sep 17, 2005; Killing planets since 1876

Smegmalicious posted:

The problems with the trigger have to be fixable. If a p7 can have a great trigger so can a bullpup.

Considering that the gunsmith I got my AK bullpup managed a really smooth <8 pound trigger pull out of it (which isn't ideal I'll admit, and is longer than a nice single-action feeling AR trigger...but it basically feels like a slightly heavier/longer really smooth 2 stage trigger (its a better pull than some other AKs I've shot)), I would say that a rifle built from the ground up as a bullpup with some thought put into the issue should be able to manage a very nice trigger (it might take some more work to make one and thus make it a little pricier...my bullpup cost more than your run of the mill Maadi because of the number of hours he spent getting the long piece of heavy duty piano wire perfectly shaped and as short/straight as possible (not to mention he had to have done some sort of work on the thing given how its more accurate than most AKs I've seen)).

# ? Dec 14, 2008 16:23

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# ? May 20, 2013 12:00

Nill: Aug 24, 2003

GI Joe Dirtbag posted:

The PS90 would be awesome if 5.7 wasn't so ridiculously expensive without reloading.

But it's pretty much the same as 45acp now.

That was my excuse too, now I need to find another reason to keep me from buying one.

# ? Dec 14, 2008 17:13

Cyrano4747: Sep 25, 2006; I am a closet nazi apologist.

GI Joe Dirtbag posted:

The PS90 would be awesome if 5.7 wasn't so ridiculously expensive without reloading.

Have you looked at the cost of even cheap poo poo 5.56 recently? Or, god help you, .308?

# ? Dec 14, 2008 17:58

Craptacular: Jul 11, 2004; I have the 50th and Final Pony Av!

McCheese posted:

E: in theme with the thread, I have always had a thing for the SA80 family of guns. Aside from a horrible AK reciever kit, is there any way to get one in the US?

From what I've read, there was a very small number of semi-auto SA80s (like low single-digits) imported into the US before 1989.

# ? Dec 14, 2008 17:58

kill me now: Sep 14, 2003; What part of "I'm a Cyborg" are you people still not getting exactly?

Cyrano4747 posted:

Have you looked at the cost of even cheap poo poo 5.56 recently? Or, god help you, .308?

Brown bear .223 25c/rnd
39c/rnd 5.7 ammo

They are out of silver bear in .308 but it was like 28c/rnd not too long ago.

# ? Dec 14, 2008 18:28

Nill: Aug 24, 2003

kill me now posted:

Brown bear .223 25c/rnd
39c/rnd 5.7 ammo

They are out of silver bear in .308 but it was like 28c/rnd not too long ago.

You're seriously comparing FN ammo to Brown Bear? And that price is crap, you can get it cheaper at most any retail store.

# ? Dec 14, 2008 19:21

TenementFunster: Feb 20, 2003; Can't post for 8 days!

myrtar posted:

man, everybody but me is talking about my gun in here.

For the record, I love it: I'm indifferent to the drop-free tactical reloads that Dear Gtab is concerned with; the dust seal is pretty cool in exchange.
The trigger is indeed stiff, no way around that.
I've never experienced any problems with full 30rd mags (and I've used many).
It can be suppressed without major work (Skyshark) if you can sort out 922R compliance.
There's an aftermarket forend to replace the factory phonebook with a vfg rail

The charging handle break was user error; I cleared it like a marine, not a civilized person should (and neither I nor this rifle had any business doing this). A friend induced a double-feed by riding the handle down instead of allowing it to slam, then instead of clearing properly, I beat the poor thing on the table, fracturing the locking tab on the charging handle. It fell off later, but its loss didn't impede weapon function. The Rat is a pro with makeshift punches (fixing was a matter of roll pin replacement).

Also, the dust cover over the action is known to grab and tug on serious moustaches; watch your handlebars.

wow that thing sounds like a total albatross and I'm glad I don't have one

# ? Dec 14, 2008 19:54

kill me now: Sep 14, 2003; What part of "I'm a Cyborg" are you people still not getting exactly?

Nill posted:

You're seriously comparing FN ammo to Brown Bear? And that price is crap, you can get it cheaper at most any retail store.

Well last time i checked since FN is the only one making 5.7 ammo and the statement I was quoting was comparing 5.7 ammo prices against "even cheap poo poo 5.56" I'm not sure what your problem is.

Just googling around real quick i didn't see anything significantly less expensive for 5.7 ammo if you know someplace with a better price then by all means post up a link.

# ? Dec 14, 2008 20:03

Nill: Aug 24, 2003

kill me now posted:

Well last time i checked since FN is the only one making 5.7 ammo and the statement I was quoting was comparing 5.7 ammo prices against "even cheap poo poo 5.56" I'm not sure what your problem is.

Just googling around real quick i didn't see anything significantly less expensive for 5.7 ammo if you know someplace with a better price then by all means post up a link.

Leme see... ah, here it is http://www.google.com/search?q=outside

Seriously, regular price at the outdoor store around here is at least a dollar less a box and it goes on sale every couple months for ~$16 a box. Licenced FN brick & mortar dealers always seem to have it for less than online stores.

# ? Dec 14, 2008 20:32

kill me now: Sep 14, 2003; What part of "I'm a Cyborg" are you people still not getting exactly?

Nill posted:

Leme see... ah, here it is http://www.google.com/search?q=outside

Seriously, regular price at the outdoor store around here is at least a dollar less a box and it goes on sale every couple months for ~$16 a box. Licenced FN brick & mortar dealers always seem to have it for less than online stores.

I just went "outside" and didnt see any 5.7 ammo on sale

Also $16 a box is still $.32/rnd which is still way more then cheap 5.56 ammo.

# ? Dec 14, 2008 22:46

TCD: Nov 13, 2002; Every step, a fucking adventure.

Gtab posted:

.458 Win Mag is specifically named by the US Forestry dudes as being the best bear-fucker, according to a document highmeh showed me.

I support that Garand.

Where the hell can I buy one of these.

That would be the sweetest bear gun around here. I was going to replace my 12 gauge with a lever action .45-70 but hot poo poo that's great.

# ? Dec 14, 2008 23:05

Nill: Aug 24, 2003

kill me now posted:

$16 a box is still $.32/rnd which is still way more then cheap 5.56 ammo.

Good thing it doesn't perform like "cheap" ammo then.

If you're expecting to find filthy steel-cased russian prices for this stuff, I'm sorry. Compared to even the cheapest brass .223 it's a fair price, compared to equivalent quality ammo it's a loving bargain.

The 5.7x28 that's out there now certainly isn't overpriced for what it is, but I will agree that the popularity of the PS90 would be greatly served by a plinking-grade round.

Supposedly FN was in talks with Wolf a couple years back to make 5.7 ammo but nothing materialized.
Until such a deal gets revisited, reloading is the price you'll pay for plinker 5.7x28

# ? Dec 14, 2008 23:16

TapTheForwardAssist: Apr 9, 2007; Only The Hague can judge me.

Nill posted:

Supposedly FN was in talks with Wolf a couple years back to make 5.7 ammo but nothing materialized.
Until such a deal gets revisited, reloading is the price you'll pay for plinker 5.7x28

I thought that you're not supposed to reload 5.7, since there's very, very little margin for error in such a small high-pressure round. Recall the dude on THR what blew his fingers off earlier this year?

Pics are down, but it was pretty wicked: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthre...5.7x28mm+reload

I'm really surprised FN couldn't work a deal with Wolf/Prvi for plinker ammo. Wolf sells freaking 6.5 Grendel, and I imagine there's less of a market for that.

# ? Dec 15, 2008 01:01

charliebravo77: Jun 11, 2003

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

I thought that you're not supposed to reload 5.7, since there's very, very little margin for error in such a small high-pressure round. Recall the dude on THR what blew his fingers off earlier this year?

You could probably safely do it. That guy was an idiot and used like 2x the amount of powder he should have and tried to blame it on FN.

# ? Dec 15, 2008 01:05

Nill: Aug 24, 2003

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

I thought that you're not supposed to reload 5.7, since there's very, very little margin for error in such a small high-pressure round. Recall the dude on THR what blew his fingers off earlier this year?

Overloading with the wrong powder can blow up anything. The guy was a moron that wanted to squeeze a fat check out of FN to cover his own stupidity.

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

I'm really surprised FN couldn't work a deal with Wolf/Prvi for plinker ammo. Wolf sells freaking 6.5 Grendel, and I imagine there's less of a market for that.

Going off guesses, it probably had a lot to do with how the parent case and projectiles for 6.5 Grendel were already part of the Wolf Gold line. Alexander Arms probably also played up the prospect of it being adopted by the US Military.

So it was a cheap gamble to possibly be in on the ground floor of the next big caliber and AA was no doubt more than accommodating since no-one was making their rounds in quantity before then.
5.7x28 on the other hand would have required a far greater investment with its peculiarities of dimension, payload, and special finishes. (FN uses a special lacquer to ease feeding and extraction of the essentially straight walled case)

# ? Dec 15, 2008 01:26

Smegmalicious: Mar 13, 2002; I wake up in the morning and I piss excellence.

I heard that the Saudi army or something bought a large number of p90's. Has anyone heard anything about this? Maybe if the 5.7 round actually gets adopted somewhere it'll get more common.

Are we in agreement that the p90/ps90 is the best bullpup in terms of design (leaving the round out of it).

# ? Dec 15, 2008 02:48

TenementFunster: Feb 20, 2003; Can't post for 8 days!

Smegmalicious posted:

Are we in agreement that the p90/ps90 is the best bullpup in terms of design (leaving the round out of it).

no because the magazine is unacceptably flawed in that it is totally hosed if they get knocked around

# ? Dec 15, 2008 02:51

Smegmalicious: Mar 13, 2002; I wake up in the morning and I piss excellence.

TenementFunster posted:

no because the magazine is unacceptably flawed in that it is totally hosed if they get knocked around

Then what is?

# ? Dec 15, 2008 02:58

TapTheForwardAssist: Apr 9, 2007; Only The Hague can judge me.

Huh, a bunch of ARFers are now throwing a fit that Steyr "pulled a SIG 556", that the new AUG isn't what everyone was hoping for:

quote:

Steyr SCREWED US.

It's basically an A1 with a top rail and a 3" side rail on the right receiver. Improve receiver material and machining and that's it.

NO FULL RAILS.

NO BOLT RELEASE BUTTON.

IT IS NOT THE AUG A3.

Steyr had the chance to give us something different. To distinguish themselves from MSAR and TPD. They had the chance to give us an updated A3 model and instead they SCREW us by repackaging an A1 AUG.

I'm so pissed off right now. I was told by Jack Riddle in August of this year that it would have rull rails. It doesn't. We were presented the A3 at SHOT 2008 and the 2008 NRA Convention and we're not going to get it.

We've been had. They are basically selling AUG A1s at $2,300 a pop, which is only slightly less expensive than the pre-1989 AUGs are right now. I suspect the factory in Austria never fully tooled up for the A3 and since they already crank out A1s for the Austrian military that's what they're going with for the US market outside of slapping a top rail on and having an improved receiver that's being done by Sabre. Pure bullshit.

They didn't even bother to try and to improve the stock or VFG. MSAR textured the pistol grip and redesigned the VFG to give it a bit more ergonomic feel. Steyr is basically making the same drat stock with ZERO changes. I really don't understand the lack of effort on the design front. I don't get it. They go to all the trouble to contract with Sabre Defense and set-up the business end of things and just crank out the same old same rifle. Where is the motivation to purchase this new AUG if you already own an A1 or an A2? Where is the compelling argument to purchase this new AUG over an STG or a AXR? I have always been pleased with Steyr firearms, BUT the Steyr name alone isn't worth hundreds of dollars more to me over other reliable rifles.

I'll give Sabre Defense credit for upgrading and improving the rifle on their end too bad Steyr in Austria couldn't put in some drat effort.

I'm looking more at the MSAR version anyway, but why would Steyr not just ship the current-issue A3? If they're having Sabre make the receivers and barrels, wouldn't it be easiest to just send them a bunch of AUG A3 kits rather than making some odd A1/A3 hybrid just for the US market.

Kinda the same thing as the SIG556, why not just ship over the furniture/sights/rails that usually go on the 551 and mount them on a US-made 551 barreled receiver?

I am amused that no matter what mag a new design takes, 50% of ARFers throw a fit:
*takes AR15 mags*: "NOOOO, the special mags were awesome and now it's just a lame AR wannabe!"
*takes different mags*: "This is bullshit, I have like 200 P-mags that won't work in it and they should've made the US version take AR mags because this is AMERICA."

# ? Dec 15, 2008 03:18

TenementFunster: Feb 20, 2003; Can't post for 8 days!

Smegmalicious posted:

Then what is?

none, they all suck

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

Huh, a bunch of ARFers are now throwing a fit that Steyr "pulled a SIG 556", that the new AUG isn't what everyone was hoping for

wait, so it isn't this:

That isn't as much rail as the A3, but much more and you'd have Picatinny behind your drat ears

TenementFunster fucked around with this message at Dec 15, 2008 around 03:25

# ? Dec 15, 2008 03:23

BrutalDumpTruck: Aug 2, 2006; If you aren't angry, you're blind.

eh, the AUG is

anyway. I haven't ever shot one, and I have no use for it, but bullpups give me a little chubby.

# ? Dec 15, 2008 03:47

Gtab: Dec 9, 2003; cop killer
cop killer
cop killer

BrutalDumpTruck posted:

eh, the AUG is anyway. I haven't ever shot one

Thats why you think this

# ? Dec 15, 2008 03:50

BrutalDumpTruck: Aug 2, 2006; If you aren't angry, you're blind.

Gtab posted:

Thats why you think this

you're probably right, and I have two AR's right now anyway. spending 2000 bux or more on another semiauto 5.56 rifle doesn't really appeal to me.

It's .308 time, bitches!

# ? Dec 15, 2008 03:58

TapTheForwardAssist: Apr 9, 2007; Only The Hague can judge me.

BrutalDumpTruck posted:

you're probably right, and I have two AR's right now anyway. spending 2000 bux or more on another semiauto 5.56 rifle doesn't really appeal to me.

It's .308 time, bitches!

Ah, so you'll be getting one of these then?

# ? Dec 15, 2008 04:10

Gtab: Dec 9, 2003; cop killer
cop killer
cop killer

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

Ah, so you'll be getting one of these then?

The FAL, yes.

# ? Dec 15, 2008 04:11

TapTheForwardAssist: Apr 9, 2007; Only The Hague can judge me.

TenementFunster posted:

none, they all suck

wait, so it isn't this:

That isn't as much rail as the A3, but much more and you'd have Picatinny behind your drat ears

The issue is apparently the SHOT 2008 showed one thing, the promotional video another, the website pic another, etc.

Not sure how much of it is Steyr being inconsistent, and how much of it is people counting hearsay, speculation, and something they saw in a 1983 movie as somehow constituting a blood oath from Steyr that it will be in Configuration A/B/C.

Meh, the MSAR is $1000 cheaper with optic, seems to have ironed its issues out, and is purely US made. MSAR has a side-rail (which most guys are putting lights on) and you can bolt a rail on top. Plus I like the old-school Steyr optic anyway.

I'll observe the situation from afar until late 2009 (assuming I work overseas most of that year), and then buy whatever seems cool on the market.

If I get an AUG, I do want to stencil something cool onto that lovely blank canvas on the right side:

# ? Dec 15, 2008 04:19

BrutalDumpTruck: Aug 2, 2006; If you aren't angry, you're blind.

I'm kicking around the idea of a .308 EBR, but it won't be the RFB, that's for sure. It's a cool idea, but I want a teething period before I buy. I wasn't insanely impressed with the SU-16 that I shot, though it is a good cheap truck gun that you can abuse without remorse if you must have a semi-auto in .223. My semi-auto truck gun is and always will be the SKS.

# ? Dec 15, 2008 04:27

Skyssx: Feb 2, 2001; by T. Fine

Haha. Steyr just saved me $2300. Thanks Steyr!

# ? Dec 15, 2008 05:15

Rodrigo Diaz: Apr 16, 2007; Knights who are at the wars eat their bread in sorrow;
their ease is weariness and sweat;
they have one good day after many bad

Just how bad is the FAMAS?

# ? Dec 15, 2008 20:06

TheReverend: Jun 21, 2005

Yeah I'm looking more and more at the MSAR but I'm afraid of replacement parts, service, etc.

# ? Dec 15, 2008 20:40

DJExile: Jun 27, 2007

Put a toy up on the G22.

This is a pretty cool Bushnell Trophy red/green dot with 4 reticles. Got a great deal on it for $85, MSRP was around $120

# ? Dec 15, 2008 21:10

Gtab: Dec 9, 2003; cop killer
cop killer
cop killer

That seems a lot like buying your Monopoly set a Hot Wheels set.

# ? Dec 15, 2008 21:27

DJExile: Jun 27, 2007

Gtab posted:

That seems a lot like buying your Monopoly set a Hot Wheels set.

I know, I love it.

Also that's one of the most original analogies I've heard in years. Well done.

# ? Dec 15, 2008 21:29

Gtab: Dec 9, 2003; cop killer
cop killer
cop killer

DJExile posted:

I know, I love it.

Also that's one of the most original analogies I've heard in years. Well done.

And I love you. Whenever I'm in YO HOOD I will shoot your funky retard bullpup and grimace the whole time, then buy you lunch.

# ? Dec 15, 2008 21:32

CmdrRat: Jan 15, 2004; Sucks at Russian Roulette

Smegmalicious posted:

I got to play with a PS90 and a Five-seveN today, and I was drat tempted to get them both. I don't like the safety on the 5-7, but it would be fun to have both of those.

Unfortunately I live in a communist state and can't have SBR's, but the PS90 is still pretty short with the 16" barrel. I like that ammo prices are either coming down or not going up like everything else.

I think the market is ripe for a good bullpup. If magpul actually manufactures theirs, or if kel-tec pulls their head out of their rear end and makes one that's not ridiculous, or if someone like sig or HK makes one, I think it would sell really well.

The problems with the trigger have to be fixable. If a p7 can have a great trigger so can a bullpup.

A year or two ago the local FN rep had a free shoot at a local range here in northern VA, thanks to TFR I got a chance to shoot both and love them.

Today, in part due to this thread I started creating a trust to buy a SBR PS90. God willing a box thread will present its self in March.

# ? Dec 15, 2008 22:12

TapTheForwardAssist: Apr 9, 2007; Only The Hague can judge me.

AlextheNotYetGreat posted:

Just how bad is the FAMAS?

Have you heard anything bad, or is that just "LOL Cheese-Eating Surrender Monkeys!!! Never fired and only dropped once!!!"

From what I've heard, they're actually pretty cool. I've got to fondle them a few times, but never shoot them. Back in 2004 when you could still carry Iraqi gear and not get in trouble, one Intel guy I ran across carried a FAMAS in preference to the M16, which was pretty ballsy.

I don't really speak French, so I just sidled up to a dude from the French 8th Marine Paras, and garbled out "C'est possible un photo, moi avec le Famas?" and he let me get a pic. I should've started getting fondle pics earlier than the last week of my tour, as a few nationalities had some really cool poo poo.

# ? Dec 15, 2008 22:40

Dick Burglar: Mar 6, 2006; ROBBLE ROBBLE ROBBLE!

myrtar posted:

There's an aftermarket forend to replace the factory phonebook with a vfg rail

Yeah, but if it's the one I'm thinking about, it's the size of a pistol rail. Not exactly prime real estate for the tacticool manchild in all of us.

# ? Dec 15, 2008 23:40

Groda: Mar 17, 2005

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

Have you heard anything bad, or is that just "LOL Cheese-Eating Surrender Monkeys!!! Never fired and only dropped once!!!"

From what I've heard, they're actually pretty cool. I've got to fondle them a few times, but never shoot them. Back in 2004 when you could still carry Iraqi gear and not get in trouble, one Intel guy I ran across carried a FAMAS in preference to the M16, which was pretty ballsy.

I don't really speak French, so I just sidled up to a dude from the French 8th Marine Paras, and garbled out "Voulez-vous coucher avec moi?" and he let me get a pic. I should've started getting fondle pics earlier than the last week of my tour, as a few nationalities had some really cool poo poo.

I'm surprised France is involved in Iraq at all. Are they there on embassy duty? Are there any French Foreign Legion troops stationed there?

# ? Dec 16, 2008 00:10

TapTheForwardAssist: Apr 9, 2007; Only The Hague can judge me.

Groda posted:

I'm surprised France is involved in Iraq at all. Are they there on embassy duty? Are there any French Foreign Legion troops stationed there?

Afghanistan, not Iraq.

I believe Legion might have some guys in Kabul, but all I've personally met are French Marine Paras.

# ? Dec 16, 2008 01:01

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# ? May 20, 2013 12:00

Rodrigo Diaz: Apr 16, 2007; Knights who are at the wars eat their bread in sorrow;
their ease is weariness and sweat;
they have one good day after many bad

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

Have you heard anything bad, or is that just "LOL Cheese-Eating Surrender Monkeys!!! Never fired and only dropped once!!!"

I haven't heard anything about it but it's a bullpup.

Really though it's the only significant bullpup I haven't heard anything about in this thread.

# ? Dec 16, 2008 01:36

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