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The Saw series would have been much better as loosely connected shorts-- they tried to be all slick with plot twists and drama, but the only real draw is always "wow I've never seen anyone die like THAT before." The concept of people having to injure themselves to escape death is movie gold. You can root for the characters to escape and still satisfy the bloodlust inherent to horror fans.
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Dec 12, 2014 22:50
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Those movies have atrocious characters and dialogue even when compared to slasher films.
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Dec 13, 2014 02:43
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The Saw series is great if you're into horror SFX, if I remember correctly it was pretty much all practically done, too, pretty neat to watch. Same with the Evil Dead remake, I think.
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Dec 13, 2014 03:19
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CopywrightMMXI posted:Saw 6 was surprisingly good. Just watch 1, 2, & 6. Wait, you thought the stupid healthcare one is worth recommending?  I mean, okay, it does have the villain attempting to clean up some of his mistakes in the most hilarious ways, but it is not at all a good film unless you're going for laughs.
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Dec 13, 2014 03:29
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Caros posted:Wait, you thought the stupid healthcare one is worth recommending? 6 is good in a "ha ha look at this horrible loving person get tortured" way, but that's about it. 1-3 are the only ones worth watching. And the opening scene of the last one just for the realization that it's not a fake movie-in-a-movie thing, and is in fact an actual movie you are watching.
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Dec 13, 2014 04:25
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Neumonic posted:The Saw series would have been much better as loosely connected shorts-- they tried to be all slick with plot twists and drama, but the only real draw is always "wow I've never seen anyone die like THAT before." The concept of people having to injure themselves to escape death is movie gold. You can root for the characters to escape and still satisfy the bloodlust inherent to horror fans. And in the last two installments they pretty much turned in to unwinnable trap gauntlets for the victim who would eventually die no matter what.
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Dec 15, 2014 17:53
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I give the Saw series credit for actually having a running plot throughout its seven installments. It may have gotten convoluted and stretched suspension of disbelief, but how many other horror franchises make it through 5+ movies while maintaining a running story? Each film advanced the story and fleshed out the characters. And killing off John in Saw 3 to let Hoffman take over as the main antagonist was actually pretty forward-thinking, considering most horror franchises would never really kill off their original villain. Also, brining back Dr. Gordon at the end of 7 to explain away various traps' medical necessities was something I genuinely didn't see coming. But yeah, after John dies and Hoffman takes over, the traps pretty much just become unbeatable torture devices which often kill people who aren't even being tested.
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Dec 16, 2014 03:43
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So for a few months, I was without the internet, and so I didn't get to follow this thread, but I have been slowly catching up these last couple months. One of the reasons it took so long is the thread produced so many great recommendations, and I've been watching a lot of horror movies. A figured I would share a few of my experiences. Triangle : One of the things I love about horror movies is their ability to make you ponder the implications of the reality they present, and Triangle does a great job of making that seem both maddeningly horrific, and just hopeful enough to make you keep going. When everything came together at the end it really hit me how devastating this situation was for her. I also loved reading some of the calculations people made about this movie, like how many times she killed "herself". Definitely worth a re-watch.
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Dec 16, 2014 03:56
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Wer : A huge problem I have with bad or mediocre horror movies (which, as horror fans, I'm sure we've all sat through a metric poo poo-tonne of) is that there is no payoff at all. A great movie, like Blair Witch, can scare you without ever showing anything that would seem scary out of context, but it earns its ending and scares with a well paced and crafted experience designed to keep the tension and horror up. Lots of bad and mediocre horror movies try to go for this ending too, but without ever earning it, or they do it because they are cheap and unimaginative. With lots of these lovely horror movies, I often only keep watching to see how crazy poo poo will get by the end, and enjoy the madness when the climax comes. So when you get a movie that isn't that great, and then ends without showing a cool monster, or some neat kills, or SOMETHING visually interesting, it's a real gently caress you. A great big "you wasted your time". The pornographic equivalent would be the sears catalogue: a bit of cleavage to get you excited, but never even a hint of a nipple. Anyway, my point is that Wer is the opposite of those movies. Watch it and enjoy the insanity.
Pb and Jellyfish fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Dec 16, 2014 |
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Dec 16, 2014 03:58
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Wolfen : Holds up surprisingly well, and has a couple of really nice shots. I love the mythology they present in the movie, even if it isn't necessarily true even in-universe. I also think the detective from this movie and the cop from C.H.U.D. should have been partnered up for some sexy and dangerous adventures. Tales from the Hood: THE poo poo? THE poo poo??? AH YES, THE poo poo! THE poo poo, THE poo poo, THE poo poo! What a fantastic performance and a fun movie. I really liked the final segment, for a movie that seemed pretty silly at times, it brutally slams the message home in that one. The movie almost forgets the characters and just talks right to the viewer.
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Dec 16, 2014 03:59
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As Above, So Below : gently caress what a thoroughly enjoyable movie. Great pacing, characters that weren't annoying shitbags, people being intelligent in a horror (?) movie, a literary framework, scary when it wanted to be, thrilling when it wanted to be, and with an ending that didn't suck. This was one of my favourite movies of the year and I hope we see more like it. There were a lot of things I loved about this movie, but I think the fact that it was filmed in the catacombs really stands out. Rather than just use this claustrophobic setting for the horror elements, the movie also does a great job of conveying the excitement and fascination of exploring such an extreme environment. I find it incredibly impressive when a film can elicit a feeling that isn't normally drawn upon in movies. Most of the time, you get to laugh, be grossed out, thrilled, made sad (or that sappy kind of "awww"), or scared. That's being a bit derivative, but my point is that there are some emotional responses that (fiction) movies just don't usually go for, especially "positive" feelings. The best example of this I can think of is in Jurassic Park, when the jeep rolls up and you really see the dinosaurs for the first time. When I first saw the movie (and every time since, honestly) I really felt the kind of wonder Allan Grant felt as well in that scene, and the movie really swept me up in the amazement of these incredible animals and the implications of their existence. I was just as eager as the characters to find out how they did it. For a brief scene or two, there isn't really any of the traditional "tension" that usually make stories function (though it quickly comes back), ie no one is in danger, there isn't a problem that needs to be resolved; there is no conflict for a short amount of time. The scene really captures that sense of awe and wonder, and because it's such a brilliant movie, it really draws you in and makes you feel that too. Anyway, I though AA,SB had a few scenes that were just exciting because they were discovering some amazing historical treasures, and the characters just get so excited that it pulls you in too. Obviously it's not to the same extent as Jurassic Park, but I really appreciated these moments. Between these scenes, the ending, the likeable characters, and just the general tone of the movie, it was really great to see a movie that can be that scary and intense without being cynical. How many horror movies these days are so sincere? I feel like this is a big part of why people are saying it's not really a horror movie, but I don't think you can say it isn't at least somewhat a horror movie. If this isn't a horror movie, then neither is Poltergeist, although those are both valid arguments you could make.
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Dec 16, 2014 04:27
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TheJoker138 posted:6 is good in a "ha ha look at this horrible loving person get tortured" way, but that's about it. 1-3 are the only ones worth watching. And the opening scene of the last one just for the realization that it's not a fake movie-in-a-movie thing, and is in fact an actual movie you are watching. I'm actually a proponent of the Saw films in terms of hatewatching or watching for amusment rather than to be horrified. Six is actually really high up my list on the latter catagory because there are so many stupid things in it that its hard not to laugh. I especially like the detective being confronted with the fact that he was planting evidence by way of fingerprints. His decision to kill everything in the room, plant more fingerprints with the same loving hand and then burn the place to the ground just to be sure was... special The final film is great just for the machine gun on a pivot. I just wish they'd had the doll show up.  - Do you want to play a game? I call this 'the machine gun game' it is my favorite. I always win.That opening scene is pretty what the gently caress in a charming sort of way. quote:I give the Saw series credit for actually having a running plot throughout its seven installments. It may have gotten convoluted and stretched suspension of disbelief, but how many other horror franchises make it through 5+ movies while maintaining a running story? Each film advanced the story and fleshed out the characters. And killing off John in Saw 3 to let Hoffman take over as the main antagonist was actually pretty forward-thinking, considering most horror franchises would never really kill off their original villain. I do sort of wish they'd kept the overall theme just a bit longer. The first two films were actually sort of interesting on first watch while you were trying to figure out the killer's angle on things. Why steal a detective's son for this, why get yourself caught and so forth. The latter films pretty much explained that as "Because murder is fun yo."
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Dec 16, 2014 04:31
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Everything fell apart after getting rid of Jigsaw, and putting him in flashbacks for the rest of the films shows how much they realized it was a mistake. Especially since they immediately replaced him with two helpers, neither of whom understood his philosophy or actually followed his legacy. They should just reboot it with Tobin Bell and nobody else, and have him in remission instead of dying, but with the same life lessons.
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Dec 16, 2014 06:31
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Pb and Jellyfish posted:As Above, So Below : gently caress what a thoroughly enjoyable movie. Great pacing, characters that weren't annoying shitbags, people being intelligent in a horror (?) movie, a literary framework, scary when it wanted to be, thrilling when it wanted to be, and with an ending that didn't suck. This was one of my favourite movies of the year and I hope we see more like it. Have to say, I caught this film on your recommendation and you're right, its actually pretty good. I have to say I wish they'd focused more on the overall feeling of dread rather than relying on the jumps scares as they did for a chunk of the film. As Above, So below absolutely thrived as a film when it was just about creepy, slow build up, and my only complaint about it is that I feel they kicked it into high gear just a tad bit too soon. It absolutely is a horror film and anyone who says otherwise is just plain wrong. That said I can't be the only one who had a brief flashback to the demon genitalia from VHS:Viral at the end of the film. I started laughing so hard when they came up through the manhole and my wife couldn't figure out why and got kinda pissed at me. quote:Everything fell apart after getting rid of Jigsaw, and putting him in flashbacks for the rest of the films shows how much they realized it was a mistake. Especially since they immediately replaced him with two helpers, neither of whom understood his philosophy or actually followed his legacy. They should just reboot it with Tobin Bell and nobody else, and have him in remission instead of dying, but with the same life lessons. Pretty much this, yeah. Saw was an interesting film when it was about a crazy man with an ideology that you can almost, just barely sort of agree with. Like you'll watch the film and hear him say "People who don't cherish life do not deserve it" etc, and you'll have a quarter of a second of thinking... yeah, I sort of... wait, no, that is hosed up. That uncomfortable feeling of feeling even a tiny bit complicit in things adds a lot of uncomfortable undertones to the film. I frankly want a saw film where they reboot it, strip out some of the torture porn and make it more of a psychological thriller, but I know that sure as gently caress isn't happening.
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Dec 16, 2014 07:20
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hypersleep posted:I give the Saw series credit for actually having a running plot throughout its seven installments. It may have gotten convoluted and stretched suspension of disbelief, but how many other horror franchises make it through 5+ movies while maintaining a running story? Each film advanced the story and fleshed out the characters. And killing off John in Saw 3 to let Hoffman take over as the main antagonist was actually pretty forward-thinking, considering most horror franchises would never really kill off their original villain. I was also impressed that they managed to make the soap opera plot (let's be honest here) somewhat coherent, and even foreshadow stuff. From what I've read they didn't know at the time of the third movie that there would be a fourth, but they still included a clip of John pouring wax on a dictaphone tape to foreshadow a reveal in the next movie. Edit: Currently done with the sixth installment, and I may be Stockholm-syndroming pretty bad because I still think there are redeeming features of all the movies. I wish the filmmakers would have forced upon themselves a smaller budget instead of making every trap the size of a football stadium, this would also have called for less suspension of disbelief. In V, the second most hated movie in the franchise, I liked the theme of the main puzzle being that teamwork could have saved them all. Still, the original Jigsaw and the successor are two very different horror monsters. One is so calculating that he even lets himself get caught as part of a puzzle, he has a sort of moral code he lives by, and nothing to lose since he´s already dying. The other one is really into killing and is really sloppy about it so he constantly needs to cover his tracks. kjetting fucked around with this message at 10:45 on Dec 16, 2014 |
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Dec 16, 2014 08:56
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The Black Mirror Christmas Special is very close to being a VHS sequel
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Dec 18, 2014 05:10
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Holy poo poo I started Basket Case and I love it, how have I not seen this before? Anyway what did you guys think of Silent Night? I thought that it actually stood up to the original, I won't say it's better but it's at least as good. That scene where the little girl brat finally gets it makes me feel awful but one of the most satisfying kills ever.
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Dec 18, 2014 16:00
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sticklefifer posted:Everything fell apart after getting rid of Jigsaw, and putting him in flashbacks for the rest of the films shows how much they realized it was a mistake. Especially since they immediately replaced him with two helpers, neither of whom understood his philosophy or actually followed his legacy. They should just reboot it with Tobin Bell and nobody else, and have him in remission instead of dying, but with the same life lessons. I'll never argue that less Tobin Bell is a good thing, but I do think that they were able to do something very interesting with the Hoffmann character. It was great decision to have him totally disregard Jigsaw's philosophy, it led to some really good stuff in the last few movies. It was much more entertaining than if they just substituted Hoffmann for Jigsaw and kept everything else status quo. The idea that Jigsaw inspires these disciples who completely ignore his teachings and just like to hurt people is miles better than the typical horror franchise tactic of doing the same story over and over. Anyway holy poo poo, have all these Bava films been on Netflix all year? I know they had Bay of Blood but all the sudden I'm seeing like 5 different Bava films here that I didn't notice before. Baron of Blood, Black Sunday, Black Sabbath, and The Girl Who Knew Too Much are all there. I haven't seen any of them, are there any I should watch first, or maybe one I should avoid? I watched a lot of Argento in October, Bava is a one of the biggest holes left in my horror viewing resume.
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Dec 18, 2014 16:15
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Basebf555 posted:Anyway holy poo poo, have all these Bava films been on Netflix all year? I know they had Bay of Blood but all the sudden I'm seeing like 5 different Bava films here that I didn't notice before. Baron of Blood, Black Sunday, Black Sabbath, and The Girl Who Knew Too Much are all there. I haven't seen any of them, are there any I should watch first, or maybe one I should avoid? I watched a lot of Argento in October, Bava is a one of the biggest holes left in my horror viewing resume. Black Sunday is one of my favorite horror films of the 60's, and Black Sabbath is a really good anthology. I haven't seen the others yet so I can't comment, but those two at least are essential viewing.
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Dec 18, 2014 16:52
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The Girl Who Knew Too Much is the first giallo and John Saxon is cool in it.
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Dec 18, 2014 18:06
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Not sure but the Black Sabbath that's on Netflix might be the edited one so I'd skip it if it is, Black Sunday loving owns though and Kidnapped (Rabid Dogs) is also great.
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Dec 18, 2014 18:34
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I think the Bava movies have been up for more than a year now. When they first put up Black Sunday they had that mixup where it was the video and audio for Frankenheimer's movie with the subtitles for the Bava movie running.
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Dec 18, 2014 20:43
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Black Sunday rules, watch it immediately. I saw it for the first time within the last year or so because it was on Netflix. It's a gem.
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Dec 19, 2014 04:43
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Hat Thoughts posted:The Black Mirror Christmas Special is very close to being a VHS sequel A sequel to VHS, right, not direct-to-VHS trash, right?
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Dec 19, 2014 17:42
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Skyscraper posted:A sequel to VHS, right, not direct-to-VHS trash, right? I'm pretty sure the former. Its been getting good reviews. If you've never heard of it or seen it find the tv series black mirror.
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Dec 20, 2014 12:01
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Little_wh0re posted:I'm pretty sure the former. Its been getting good reviews. Seconded, the Christmas special was incredible but my favourite episode was the one where the prime minister gets blackmailed.
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Dec 20, 2014 14:08
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Little_wh0re posted:I'm pretty sure the former. Its been getting good reviews. Oh, I've seen it (the series). I was afraid he was saying Charlie Brooker was phoning it in, a secret fear I've had ever since I heard they were making a Christmas special.
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Dec 21, 2014 00:27
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Where are you guys seeing the Black Mirror Christmas Special? I just blew threw s1 and s2 on netflix. Is it playing in the US anywhere?
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Dec 21, 2014 00:52
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Skyscraper posted:A sequel to VHS, right, not direct-to-VHS trash, right?
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Dec 21, 2014 01:16
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I loved Hellraiser and was shocked to find out Hellhound: Hellraiser 2 was any good, so I decided to watch 3 and 4; by that point, I was like "Well, I went this far, why not go further?" and oh boy I wish I had better decision-making processes. Hellraiser 3: Hell on Earth is worth watching, with the caveat that what makes it worth watching will also annoy hardcore fans of the first two: it's the most 80s sequel possible to Hellraiser. Sexy evil techno club setting? Pinhead is now Freddy Krueger? Unneeded backstory? Some over-the-top but cool special effects? The last 30 minutes are downright hilarious: Pinhead breaks through to Earth, so he turns everyone into a nightclub into cenobites and marches them down a city street doing battle with cops, with the cenobites being "symbolic" creatures like a DJ who shoots LPs that decapitate people or a bartender cenobite that throws an exploding drink mixer. Even the ending stinger is super goofy. Hellraiser 4: Bloodlines again has some stylish effects (if you ignore the CGI ones and the dog), 80s cheese (I know, it came out in the 90s but it has a very 80s feel to it), and an attempt at a pretty ambitious story. I would love to see the original cut (2 hours, different scenes) but even this is kind of a relief from the standard horror story: we get a prequel set hundreds of years ago, chronicling the Box's creation, a modern day story, and then a frame story set hundreds of years into the future with a final, definitive end to the series. Hellraiser: Inferno is a nice idea, taking Pinhead and the Box and turning them into devices to tell a Twilight Zone story, but it's telegraphed so hard it almost doesn't matter, I couldn't stand the lead actor, and many of the scares consist of "shake face" Jacob Ladder type scares that end up being the protagonist seeing things almost every time. Hellraiser: Hellseeker is boring. It's just Inferno again but with a potentially interesting twist saved for the final 10 minutes of the film; without revealing much, if that had happened about 40 minutes in and the movie continued in a direction that explored the idea of the twist, it would be so much better. So instead you get to see them telegraph the twist that Dean Winters (not exactly a super appealing actor, but not bad - sort of sleepwalks through the movie) killed his wife even harder than Inferno's twist, reuse a line and reveal straight from Inferno, then basically dump a Silent Hill level bit of exposition before deciding to end. The cinematography is competent, but it's the sort of baseline competence that points to its own mediocrity. Hellraiser: Deader is boring and poorly shot. A Vice reporter discovers a portal to hell, basically. I had to watch it in three 30 minute intervals. Hellraiser: HellWorld is hilariously lovely. Rick Bota is a master hack (also responsible for the previous two movies). If you want to watch a Hellraiser film set in the real world where somehow the franchise has spawned a wildly popular MMO that looks like a Newgrounds point and click flash game, Lance Henrikson throwing a LAN party to get revenge on teens, Henry Cavil getting a super spooky blowjob, or a fit 20 year old man chasing after his asthma inhaler like he's Indiana Jones going after the loving posion antidote then check it out. I've only managed to watch the first 15 minutes of the last film in the series, Hellraiser: Revelations, but it opens with the worst found footage I have ever seen. I repeat: I have seen VHS: Viral and THIS is much worse found footage. If you ever have a friend who blabs about found footage is lazy and bad because they just point the camera at stuff, show him say Safe Haven from VHS 2 and then this. The camera work truly does appear to be random: the camera is often doing a Sergio Leone close up on characters, bathroom stalls, shadows while shaking from subject to subject. I demand SuperMechaGodzilla watch it.
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Dec 21, 2014 03:47
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Whispering Machines posted:Where are you guys seeing the Black Mirror Christmas Special? I just blew threw s1 and s2 on netflix. Is it playing in the US anywhere? Either a VPN or finding it in gray areas if they're in the US. The only legal way is if you have DirecTV on Christmas night. I'm glad I'm staying at my parents for Christmas.
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Dec 21, 2014 13:51
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timeandtide posted:Hellraiser Funny, I just rewatched the first two over the last two days. I still love them to death, 2 more so than 1. I've decided not to watch any of the others, even though I liked 3 when it came out and still kinda like Inferno. But the most telling thing about the sequels to me is that they completely do away with the skinned people. It's all about Cenobites and the box, but Frank and Julia have been infinitely more compelling and effective horror movie characters than those and it's a crying shame none of the sequels picked up on that.
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Dec 21, 2014 15:10
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I think Hellraiser 3 is my least favorite, not because it's the worst, but because it was the beginning of people making sequels to it that completely missed the point of the original. Turning Pinhead and co. into basically generic slasher movie villains, destroying a nightclub and killing everyone in it for no reason, is still one of the dumbest things ever. These are the same guys who in the last movie refused to take a girl who solved the box because she didn't comprehend what she was doing, but now they're just like "gently caress it, mass murder is AWESOME."
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Dec 21, 2014 21:01
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The attitude shift kind of makes sense; doing things the honorable way in the last movie got them hosed over. It's like the changing of the guard from mob-run casinos to giant, soulless, megacorp casinos. You start out comping people free drinks, but then you see you're losing money on it and then BAM, everybody's fair game now.
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Dec 21, 2014 21:09
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I do really like all the flashback scenes that are about Pinhead before he was Pinhead, though. Only somewhat related, but has their been any word on The Secret Gospels lately? Or how much of what's going to be in that book hasn't already been in the Hellraiser comics Barker has been writing?
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Dec 21, 2014 21:12
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TheJoker138 posted:I do really like all the flashback scenes that are about Pinhead before he was Pinhead, though. publication date of may 19, 2015. available for pre-order. it's shorter than i would've thought.
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Dec 21, 2014 21:17
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timeandtide posted:I loved Hellraiser and was shocked to find out Hellbound: Hellraiser 2 was any good I feel bad that it took you this long to watch the best movie in the series. IMO Hellbound: Hellraiser 2 is one of the greatest horror movies (and the best thing Barker has his name attached to) of the late 80s / early 90s. Now I'm pretty biased but I think that it is essential watching for anyone who likes weird, hosed up, extremely violent horror movies that's not just "torture porn". Mom with a blog fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Dec 21, 2014 |
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Dec 21, 2014 21:47
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i still don't think Hellbound is better than Hellraiser, but it's definitely a good enough sequel to inspire hyperbole.
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Dec 21, 2014 21:49
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:i still don't think Hellbound is better than Hellraiser, but it's definitely a good enough sequel to inspire hyperbole. Hellraiser is a better slow-burn horror movie, letting the creepiness slowly take over as the man in your fathers skin beckons you to come to him. Hellbound, however, is a non-stop cavalcade of "okay we're back wait what is going on ahhhh she's back oh jesus WHAT THE gently caress IS HE DOING  ."Bottom line, Jesus wept. 
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Dec 21, 2014 21:55
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I'm biased as well, in that Hellraiser is pretty much one of my top 10 favorite movies in any genre.
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Dec 21, 2014 21:59
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