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Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

BabyRyoga posted:

I have automatic updates turned off, and haven't checked for/installed any updates in months according to windows update.

This is the best way to get infected you know that right?

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Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

alanthecat posted:

What's a nice virus I can use to test MS Security Essentials? I want to see what its logs look like so I can consider building a tool for checking all our PCs for detections. Yes, we have less than ten. Or does anyone know of such a tool already?

Well here's some files that MSE will detect viruses in: http://cd.textfiles.com/htoolbox/virus/

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

computer parts posted:

I guess the question now is "why did the FBI have this information".

At first I thought it was a registry of devices being used by the FBI and its staff. Then I realized that 12 million devices is 4 times as many people as work for any branch of the federal government, and the FBI itself only has 35,890 workers.

There's about 47 million active iPhones in the US (about half of Americans own smartphones, about 30% of those smartphones that are active are iPhones), so the FBI apparently recorded information on a little over 1/4 of them.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

pixaal posted:

Maybe they have info on all of them and the laptop in question didn't have a complete database. Something that large, well why have 1 person hold on to all the data?

Well that's the thing, why exactly would the FBI have that data at all? There's not really a reason the FBI should have it, no way that there's 12 million iPhone users suspected in crimes that would justify having this data. Or even the million or so who had more info in the data.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

eames posted:

So this article about "badBIOS" over at arstechnica... please tell me that is a hoax?

http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/10/meet-badbios-the-mysterious-mac-and-pc-malware-that-jumps-airgaps/

The key thing is that this is pretty much impossible to spread on a wide basis, due to the fact you have to know very specific hardware attributes in order for it to function on a wide range of target computers. Hell, the sound thing for one simply won't work in places where there's sufficient environmental noise, or sufficiently poor quality speakers.

It's the kind of thing where if it's going to be deployed anywhere, the person attacking already has knowledge of all the hardware details of the target facility.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

KillHour posted:

So why the hell was it deployed on a security researcher's laptop of all places?

Why wouldn't it be? Isn't that the most logical place for a very difficult to set up attack to be tried?

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

dpbjinc posted:

Yeah, the "communicates with sound" bit isn't the impressive bit. I can speak to my tablet and have it translate my English words to text with over 95% accuracy; it should be fairly simple for a virus to read binary digits sent by another machine. For a virus to attack multiple disparate platforms at the firmware level is the part that sounds fishy; you'd need a government backing you to pull that off, and I'm pretty sure they'd keep it away from security researchers at all costs.

This first requires your virus to know how to interact with all the neccesary audio hardware while in the EFI/BIOS stuff without the benefit of standardized drivers at the OS level.

It would be trivial if this was proposed to be simply a Windows or OS X virus to have access to it and not need extensive work on the writer's side to ensure it supports everything. That's completely different at the EFI/BIOS level.

Paul MaudDib posted:

Audio networking is actually a surprisingly robust technique
..when you have standardized audio hardware APIs to work with, or are working with known hardware. Which you don't have for the EFI/BIOS level malware supposed here, and you wouldn't have if you were attempting to implement such a malware in the EFI/BIOS level and you did not previously find out the hardware your target's using by other means.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

Ynglaur posted:

I'm unsure where else in SA to ask, but this thread seems like it has people who know what they're doing?

What is the Goon consensus on the best antivirus for a local machine? I've been using MSE but anytime my laptop is near idle it spins everything up, which spins the fans on, which is loud, annoying, etc. I can get McAfee for free through my ISP (Cox): is it as terrible as YouTube parody videos suggest? I had a horrible experience with BitDefender a couple years ago. After uninstalling it, it leaves a pre-boot checker, which fails because it's not installed. Basically, I had to re-image two laptops because of this.

Thoughts, comments, and you-don't-really-know-what-you're-talking-about replies welcome.

Have you tried running a full scan in MSE anytime recently? It may be trying to scan things it hasn't already checked while the computer's idle.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

Technogeek posted:

Everything I understand about how apps work on Android is telling me that this post makes no sense whatsoever. Wouldn't you still have to approve the actual install before the app in question can start making GBS threads up the phone?

This is correct. Android "scanners" are almost entirely useless.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe
It's a "good idea" in the same way that not getting in an accident is a good idea. It doesn't accomplish anything in practice.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

Technogeek posted:

What exactly is the difference between "java trojan" and "malicious APK" in this scenario?

A "java trojan" is a thing that doesn't exist on Android. No stock browsers or major third party browsers for Android have Java support for web pages (There's some addons you can get for Firefox that let you do it though).

Incidentally, here's what typical Android malware will look like, and how to remove it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGTV0bVbHh4

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

pixaal posted:

Actually why is the firmware in USB even writable?

Because it doesn't save any money to do it another way? Really, the same reason there's a full system on there to actively ahndle defects and presenting a unified storage space to the host OS rather than always going for the highest quality chips and a less robust firmware onboard.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

Captain Novolin posted:

Charge-only cables exist, and iirc they only have connectors for the pins that carry the power, and none of the others.

Note that for most devices this will prevent them from getting more than 100 milliamps of power off a USB port (due to negotiating for more power being made impossible).

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

pixaal posted:

Add in noScript, adblock misses so much.

No it doesn't, Adblock Plus blocks things perfectly if you bother to set it to block things.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

Ynglaur posted:

I received a document the other day in Word 2003 format. 2003? Really? WTF are you doing with Office 2003? This is the same type of company that would be paying Microsoft maintenance for the last 11 years, too.

Uh yeah dude a lot of stuff uses normal 97-2003 DOC because it's readable in much more things than DOCX.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe
Yeah, W3Schools has always had weird usage rates compared to other sources. If I remember right, they had IE going below 50% several years ahead of when the majority of other stat sources did, which kinda indicates to me they might have an unrepresentative sample.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

North Korea lets foreign tourists connect to the real internet now. It's that and a few government workers.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

Ynglaur posted:

Or that their sample doesn't include stolen copies of Windows, or something. I remember somebody pointed out a while back that the huge usage of Windows XP in China is driven by the fact that the vast majority of installations are unlicensed.

This doesn't make sense, as there's no way to track that someone used stolen copies through browser headers.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

Krotera posted:

The internet security software I've seen is usually software firewall plus stuff like a Web of Trust-style "can you trust this site?" plugin, a scanner that hooks into your email client, etc. It's probably less like an antivirus and more like a nagger that tells you about best practices.

To be honest, the nagging part is probably more useful day to day for inexperienced users than the antivirus.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

dpbjinc posted:

If you're connected directly to your modem, you should really invest in a router.

Yeah but these days, if you're directly connected to an ISP's modem it's almost certainly a modem/router combo where there's a firewall in place.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

22 Eargesplitten posted:

So, is that a good way to clean out any malware-riddled computer? My father wants me to clean up his old laptop for his ladyfriend because I'm "good with computers." I haven't ever really needed to clean a computer up like that because I'm careful, which prevents 90% of problems, and I keep an antivirus with an autoscan going.

Remove as much personal info as you can to be backed up, then format the hard drive/ssd and freshly reinstall Windows.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

BaseballPCHiker posted:

I think we're agreeing? :shrug:

Yes AV is useless, no I dont personally pay for or use any AV myself. I guess my question was more about what to recommend to users who I know will not run a system without any AV because they think that would be like barebacking it in a Tijuana brothel. I know they are going to use it so I might as well find the one that is the most unobtrusive and wont take up a ton of system resources.

They should all be updating to Windows 10 over the coming year, and that has MSE built in as Windows Defender and it's impossible for them to disable it. So just tell them to do that.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe
The Rkill, combfix etc stuff is more useful for figuring out what got in, and maybe how to stop it int he future then fixing things. You should still do a clean install or backup restore after you're done.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

OWLS! posted:

Actually, since you mentioned it, could you elaborate a bit on this? I remember the big brouhaha about it back in 2013 or so, with people getting really spooked, and then sort of nothing. No real analysis, and even some stuff coming out (I may be misremembering) saying it was overblown somewhat? Anybody done any analysis on it, or is it anecdotes or what?

As it turns out, all you can really do with the speakers built into computers for transferring data is to very very slowly (on the order of a few dozen bytes per minute) transfer data, assuming you even had a BIOS/EFI embedded malware listening and sending through the speaker. Some university research crew performed experiments using consumer hardware and got at most 300 baud transfer in ideal scenarios, since speakers aren't all that hot at being microphones - and in situations where they simulated conditions being worse like say a laptop across the room from a desktop it dropped down to about 30-40 successfully transferred bytes per minutes. So in ideal conditions, like 99 megabytes could be transferred over a month, in normal conditions, you could transfer like 1.75 megabytes.

So the thing he was claiming about it spreading by sound is right out, because at best it could put out tiny updates to what's already there, and there's no practical way for it to infect anew. If he even had any malware actually going on, it'd have been because some expert had broken in and brought the stuff onto the systems by way of physical access.

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Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

I think he's been pretty clear about "salvage what you can that ain't backed up, then format the bastard from a clean system or boot disc, or image a backup image on if available"

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