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I think I finally found a solution to a problem I've been having, and posting here in case it helps anyone. This is my current setup, minus a few umbrellas. I can put both panels together for a giant 2x2 meter diffusion source, but this one works great as a giant soft source. However, look at the light pattern on the panel. The barndoors aren't controlling the spill properly. It *seems* like it's because the default reflector is a 90 degree spread, allowing the light way out to the sides. This is as far back as I could get without a lot more spill on the background (you can see some on the bottom right even as is). Ideally I should be able to back it up about 2 meters, and with the barndoors, have it hit only the entire panel, or less for various affects. I could bring up the bottom one so that only a 1x1 area is lit, for less light from the bottom, or I could narrow the sides to get a 2 meter tall by 20cm wide strip light effect. At all times I want to use one large door to keep it off the background, and the other to prevent flare in the camera. I bought the 50 degree reflector, and that seems to have fixed my problem. Much more concentrated beam that can be used without barndoors pretty well, and using the doors I can really slice the light into a square, filling only what I want.
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| # ? Feb 1, 2010 15:05 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 23:30 |
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poopinmymouth posted:lights
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| # ? Feb 1, 2010 16:15 |
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Seamless, like the stuff PIMM is standing on there, is usually paper right? So when you get it shitted up with foot prints and model blood, you just tear it off and roll out more?
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| # ? Feb 1, 2010 17:06 |
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squidflakes posted:Seamless, like the stuff PIMM is standing on there, is usually paper right? So when you get it shitted up with foot prints and model blood, you just tear it off and roll out more? I used to work with a studio that insisted on only using vinyl for white seamless backgrounds. They wasted so much money, and I wasted so much energy arguing.
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| # ? Feb 1, 2010 17:09 |
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Just got my grids from saxonpc.com . If you want some grids but don't want to pay Honl prices for them, saxonpc seems to be a good deal. I got the Shipping Saver set in the larger 55x85 size for the Vivitar 285HV and they fit like a glove.
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| # ? Feb 2, 2010 02:08 |
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poopinmymouth posted:However, look at the light pattern on the panel. The barndoors aren't controlling the spill properly. What don't you just use grids?
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| # ? Feb 2, 2010 02:15 |
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brad industry posted:What don't you just use grids? Because a grid still gives you a circle. I do have a 20 degree, but I use it for isolating parts of the photo, not on the panel, and until I got this new larger reflector, there are no grids that fit the default reflector, it's 14.5cm, all grids are 18cm. But it's more important that I can shave off the circular edges into a square to fill the panel than to have it not spill over the sides. Even with a grid I can't fill the entire square without lots of spill on all 4 sides.
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| # ? Feb 2, 2010 11:04 |
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poopinmymouth posted:Because a grid still gives you a circle. I do have a 20 degree, but I use it for isolating parts of the photo, not on the panel, and until I got this new larger reflector, there are no grids that fit the default reflector, it's 14.5cm, all grids are 18cm. Know a local place that stocks Lee's Filters? Ask for a role of 280 black out foil. Like stiffer black aluminium foil, can be cut and reused. Will solve spill issues believe me, it's a godsend on film sets when you only have barn doors. http://www.leefilters.com/lighting/...C4630B29462927/
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| # ? Feb 2, 2010 14:31 |
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XTimmy posted:Know a local place that stocks Lee's Filters? Ask for a role of 280 black out foil. Like stiffer black aluminium foil, can be cut and reused. Will solve spill issues believe me, it's a godsend on film sets when you only have barn doors. Yeah I want to get some of that too, and affix a little on each barndoor to fold over when I really need tight spill control. Thanks for the exact name/number of it.
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| # ? Feb 2, 2010 16:56 |
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poopinmymouth posted:Yeah I want to get some of that too, and affix a little on each barndoor to fold over when I really need tight spill control. Thanks for the exact name/number of it. It looks (although it's hard to tell exactly from that photo), that the problem may be with your barndoors - the higher-end theatrical ones (which I seem to recall you mentioning you were using in #c) have little 'wings' on the vertical parts to combat exactly the kind of spill you're getting there. It's probably easier to see it than it is to explain it. 
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| # ? Feb 2, 2010 21:57 |
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SoundMonkey posted:It looks (although it's hard to tell exactly from that photo), that the problem may be with your barndoors - the higher-end theatrical ones (which I seem to recall you mentioning you were using in #c) have little 'wings' on the vertical parts to combat exactly the kind of spill you're getting there. It's probably easier to see it than it is to explain it. I know the photo makes it look like it's those corner flares, and they are a problem, but the bigger problem is just how wide the reflector throws the beam (90 degrees). It was spilling past even the middle of the large sides when backed up any further. barndoor wings and black cinefoil are good for smallish spills, but this was a major spillage problem from just too wide angle of a reflector. The new 50 degree one works much better.
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| # ? Feb 2, 2010 22:13 |
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PIMM, what is the reason for wanting square light on your diffuser?
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| # ? Feb 2, 2010 23:09 |
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So he won't have to worry about spill? He shoots through them.
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| # ? Feb 2, 2010 23:18 |
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I'm not sure what the point of having it square and not spill, if that's an issue why are you doing this vs. just a softbox? Maybe I'm misunderstanding but grid vs. barn doors would give you the same light shooting through that panel, not sure what square has to do with it.
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| # ? Feb 2, 2010 23:40 |
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squidflakes posted:PIMM, what is the reason for wanting square light on your diffuser? brad industry posted:I'm not sure what the point of having it square and not spill, if that's an issue why are you doing this vs. just a softbox? The idea of the barndoors is that I can make the light source any shape from the full size of this panel down to a 10x10cm source based on the position of the barndoors. If I narrow the sides so it's just emitting a thin vertical slice, I can get the light affect of a long stripbox, then if it's too narrow, just widen the doors to taste. brad industry posted:
A 1x1 meter softbox will give a different type of light than 1 meter octobox. That's not to mention that squaring off the light would let me fill the entire 1x2 meter panel, something not possible with a grid unless you move it back far enough to fill the whole panel, with tons of spill on all 4 sides. Tell me how you'd fill the entire panel with a gridded reflector without spilling light all over the background and ceiling (ceiling bounce will alter the look vs side only light). And that all comes back to the point that working barndoors (something every system but the quadra has easily available, Alienbees, normal elinchrom stuff, profoto, etc) will let you have a perfectly controllable beam in any rectangular dimension you should desire. It's not like it's crazy weirdo voodoo to want squarish light patterns. poopinmymouth fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2010 around 00:10 |
| # ? Feb 3, 2010 00:07 |
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It's a very neat way to go about a flexible light source actually.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2010 00:27 |
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poopinmymouth posted:A 1x1 meter softbox will give a different type of light than 1 meter octobox. Well, the reason the light is different is because in an octabox the light bounces off twice as many sides on the inside, which makes it softer than a rectangular softbox which only has 4 sides. quote:Tell me how you'd fill the entire panel with a gridded reflector without spilling light all over the background and ceiling (ceiling bounce will alter the look vs side only light). If I wanted a fully lit square panel I wouldn't bother with a grid and a diffusion screen at all, I would just use a softbox. Otherwise you're just going to have to flag spill if you want it all the way to the edges of the screen. I don't think a big, gridded circle of light going through that and a similarly sized barndoor-ed square of light through that are really going to be all that different though unless you really, really care what shape the catch lights are. If I had a rectangular softbox and wanted it square I would just flag it, that would be the simplest solution. To me the advantage of diffusion panels over softboxes is that the head isn't in a fixed position, so you can shoot through the panel at an angle, weird distances, stick whatever kind of modifier you want on it before going through the panel, or like you said barndooring to get a strip light* and things like that. If you're just shooting straight through it and want a square of light what's the advantage over a softbox? I don't think you're doing it "wrong" or anything I'm just curious, if two things are mostly equal I tend to go with the one that is easier to set up and requires less equipment. I know some people who exclusively light things with diffusion panels because they're so flexible... they rule. * quick and fast way to make a strip light: just A-clamp two sides of a normal softbox shorter.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2010 00:30 |
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I have a client who wants something like this, and I'm so nervous, I've never done anything like it and I'm scared I wont be able to do it. Any help would be much appreciated. It's a yogurt company, so it'll probaby be the container the yogurt goes in, with the water around it.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2010 00:42 |
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poopinmymouth posted:And that all comes back to the point that working barndoors (something every system but the quadra has easily available, Alienbees, normal elinchrom stuff, profoto, etc) will let you have a perfectly controllable beam in any rectangular dimension you should desire. It's not like it's crazy weirdo voodoo to want squarish light patterns. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're using standard theatrical barndoors on that, right? If so, see if you can find a snoot for that size (they're 6" wide, all black, not much like photography ones). It'll clean up the beam a bit, and you can still mount the barndoor on the accessory holder at the end of the snoot. Some places may call it a top hat. They're also dirt loving cheap. Or find a way to mount a strobe on the back of a Source 4 and solve all your problems at once. I tried this once and it sort-of worked... gives you a round beam, 4 shutters to make it any shape you want, ability to vary edge hardness, slot for gobos, gel holder, etc. I really need to give it another shot in a non-comedy way, because if done right, it'll also let you throw the light unholy distances. EDIT: The main problem is that you have to get the flash tube through a 2cm hole in the back of the parabolic reflector, to get it to the same position the bulb would be, for the optics to work properly. EDIT THE SECOND: I'm at work and I'm bored, so I'm working on this. It looks like it'll actually work, with an unmodified SB800. SoundMonkey fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2010 around 01:09 |
| # ? Feb 3, 2010 01:00 |
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Ok, I'm gonna say this worked. I did it the ugly stupid way with a microphone stand, because I don't have my lightstands at work. I used a Source 4 25-50 Zoom, but any Source 4 would have worked. Here's the setup (don't laugh). Lamp housing removed, SB800 at 85mm jammed up against the hole where the lamp was:  This is the beam without any modification - perfectly round, the edge could have been hard if this entire rig wasn't incredibly rickety and hard to adjust (the Source 4 was set to a 45 degree beam angle, the door was about 3 feet from it):  Just using the lamp's shutters, I was able to get pretty much any shape I wanted, any size I wanted, within reason. Here's the square you were looking for:  ...and with the beam edge softened a bit, just to make sure the Source 4 optics are still working as designed:  And the monstrosity when it actually fires:  SB800, triggered via CLS because I didn't have my triggers here. It may not be the most practical thing in the world, but with some refinement, you can get the kind of control you want. You also get the optical advantage of the lighting fixture... this is with a 25-degree beam angle, shuttered in to the smallest beam I could get. It's hard to see any kind of scale in this, but that rectangle of light is about six inches across, and the screen, according to the drafting here, is 55 feet from where the light is.  EDIT: There's a few more shots in the set, if anybody's interested. http://www.flickr.com/photos/jleane...57623338393030/ SoundMonkey fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2010 around 02:12 |
| # ? Feb 3, 2010 01:28 |
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brad industry posted:
It's for the flexibility like you mentioned. There are times when I want the light harder in one direction, or softer in the other, and I just don't feel like I get that flexibility with a softbox, not to mention this whole setup was cheaper than a single good 1x2 meter softbox, and I have 2x, or even a 2x2 meters soft light source, which I don't even want to imagine the cost of. It's about having flexibility on set, and once I get the barndoors working, changing from a 2x2, to a .1x2 to a 1x1 takes about 20 seconds vs changing out the softbox or flagging it off. Soundmonkey, looks like a good thing if you need perfect control and have lots of space, but I think that's just a tad overkill for my needs. I just need to shave off a little of the sides, not have laser precision.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2010 09:53 |
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somnambulist posted:I have a client who wants something like this, and I'm so nervous, I've never done anything like it and I'm scared I wont be able to do it. Any help would be much appreciated. You need insanely short flash durations, hotshoe flashes work well for this. You also better believe that wasn't shot open like that. I'm imagining they shot it closed, several times, and comped in the top from one shot, and bottom from another, and the perfect product interior from a 3rd static shot. Also remember you can grab splashes from any frame to use comped in on the final.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2010 09:54 |
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poopinmymouth posted:Soundmonkey, looks like a good thing if you need perfect control and have lots of space, but I think that's just a tad overkill for my needs. I just need to shave off a little of the sides, not have laser precision. Yeah, well it was still fun as hell 
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| # ? Feb 3, 2010 10:54 |
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SoundMonkey posted:Yeah, well it was still fun as hell I can just imagine you focusing that thing right then gently caress down and blowing a neat hole the size of a nickel through your wall. XTimmy fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2010 around 11:32 |
| # ? Feb 3, 2010 11:26 |
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I've got an event coming up, outdoors, and I was wondering if I could get some advice on how to handle scenes with a large amount of back-lighting. The event is a yearly thing, and it is held in an outdoor free-standing pavilion. The roof starts around 3m and goes up to ~8m with the inside being completely open on all sides. So, there is usually a huge amount of sunlight coming in from every direction, and balancing that with my SB-800 caused a lot of blown out highlights and flat flash-light looking images. I was thinking of building the frame I was talking about earlier in the thread, which would give me a pair of 2x1 meter diffusion panels as a backdrop, but I'm worried that this might give me the same issues, only with softer light.
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| # ? Feb 3, 2010 22:30 |
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Do you guys think it's worth buying a YN-465 or Vivitar 285~ as opposed to this little guy I just stumbled upon: http://www.techforless.com/cgi-bin/...D=109696#pd_nav It has TTL and can work as an optical slave. My plan is/was to get two flashes and wireless triggers, but if this would be comparable with the YN or Vivi, then I'd grab it in a heart beat. e: From POTN quote:It is e-TTL compatible and offers full manual power adjustment down to 1/64th power, has a GN of 125@70mm ISO 100 and GN 135@105mm so its pretty powerful. It has a autofocus head that zooms from 24mm to 105mm. It sounds like this would be perfect for me, and they sell on eBay as well, so I can buy two of them, and even get $7 cashback. (With the optical slave sensor, would I need wireless trigger if I used one on my hotshoe for fill light to trigger the one on side for reflective lightning?) e: Bought two of them for $72, got $7 cashback, and I figure it's the cheapest way to get into learning about flash. The power is supposed to be close to the Vivi and it has TTL so, I'll deal I suppose. Shmoogy fucked around with this message at Feb 4, 2010 around 05:46 |
| # ? Feb 4, 2010 05:30 |
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Shmoogy posted:Do you guys think it's worth buying a YN-465 or Vivitar 285~ as opposed to this little guy I just stumbled upon: For that price, who gives a gently caress? Even if it falls apart in a month, it's not that much money.
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| # ? Feb 4, 2010 05:55 |
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HPL posted:For that price, who gives a gently caress? Even if it falls apart in a month, it's not that much money. I know but I just spent 800$ on a 17-50 2.8 and 70-200 f/4 and my fiance is going to have my balls, but I can't deal with on camera flash any longer, so whatever. Some people say it works some people say it wont work because my camera uses ETTL II, but I may as well be a man and learn to use manual anyway.
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| # ? Feb 4, 2010 06:00 |
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Shmoogy posted:Do you guys think it's worth buying a YN-465 or Vivitar 285~ as opposed to this little guy I just stumbled upon: I bought two of them last week, and they just arrived yesterday. Both are in good working condition and I think will be great for me to learn and expand with.
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| # ? Feb 4, 2010 14:27 |
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Lets talk about studio space for a second. I think it fits in the lighting thread. The magazine I'm working for is going to give me some space to be a studio. The intention is for it to be an open area where I can photograph people for the articles or create those fun editorial illustrations to accompany the articles. I don't have a ton of details but, the room is flexible because they are still building it. I can have walls put up or taken down. I'm going to see the empty space Monday morning and it should be completed by March 1. So what are some things to keep in mind as far as optimum size, design choices to avoid, anything I can have built into the ceiling if possible, type of ceiling lights installed, windows or no windows? I mean what makes sense and what is commonly done out there. I want to have a few options in mind because not everything will work out perfectly. I was thinking of optimum room of at least 20x30, blank white walls, unsure of type of overhead lighting, windows I can use for natural light, Plenty of outlets, and good temperature control.
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| # ? Feb 5, 2010 17:31 |
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I need a second flash to use as a hair light or for backgrounds. It will only be used off camera with Cybersyncs so I don't need TTL. I'm thinking about ordering the YN-462 from Deal Extreme at this point. It doesn't zoom but it has variable power output which I think would be more useful. Any other recommendations on a very basic flash? I'd like to keep it under $75.
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| # ? Feb 6, 2010 03:54 |
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AIIAZNSK8ER posted:Lets talk about studio space for a second. I think it fits in the lighting thread. The magazine I'm working for is going to give me some space to be a studio. The intention is for it to be an open area where I can photograph people for the articles or create those fun editorial illustrations to accompany the articles. I don't have a ton of details but, the room is flexible because they are still building it. I can have walls put up or taken down. I'm going to see the empty space Monday morning and it should be completed by March 1. One thing you'll probably want to keep in mind is that you want the windows easily coverable so you can seal them off you need to. It's so cool that you get a say in the room though! Large and open is always good, you can always move in temporary walls if you need to, but you can't take permanent ones away.
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| # ? Feb 6, 2010 04:17 |
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bung posted:I need a second flash to use as a hair light or for backgrounds. It will only be used off camera with Cybersyncs so I don't need TTL. I'm thinking about ordering the YN-462 from Deal Extreme at this point. It doesn't zoom but it has variable power output which I think would be more useful. Any other recommendations on a very basic flash? I'd like to keep it under $75. I'm also in this boat but I'd like optical slave if possible
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| # ? Feb 6, 2010 10:23 |
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AIIAZNSK8ER posted:Lets talk about studio space for a second. I think it fits in the lighting thread. The magazine I'm working for is going to give me some space to be a studio. The intention is for it to be an open area where I can photograph people for the articles or create those fun editorial illustrations to accompany the articles. I don't have a ton of details but, the room is flexible because they are still building it. I can have walls put up or taken down. I'm going to see the empty space Monday morning and it should be completed by March 1. Main thing I can think of is high ceiling. It can be a bitch to control bounce and spill you don't want if the ceiling is too low. Also if possible, grey walls are best.
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| # ? Feb 6, 2010 11:55 |
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XTimmy posted:I'm also in this boat but I'd like optical slave if possible Go buy the same one I did, they're more powerful than 430ex, and have optical slave sensor things built in. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...em=250485519405 Here is the thread on POTN where I found out about them http://photography-on-the.net/forum...ad.php?t=821101 Some guy just got his: quote:mine arrived today, and it is a beast. Much bigger and much more power than my 430exII. e: The promaster version sells for $250: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...&pf_rd_i=507846
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| # ? Feb 6, 2010 16:24 |
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poopinmymouth posted:Main thing I can think of is high ceiling. It can be a bitch to control bounce and spill you don't want if the ceiling is too low. does they grey help control bounce as well since it doesn't reflect as much?
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| # ? Feb 6, 2010 16:57 |
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AIIAZNSK8ER posted:does they grey help control bounce as well since it doesn't reflect as much? It stays neutral, and can be sent either way to white or black easier than white can be sent to black or vice versa. I think grey is a nicer background color anyway. :-D
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| # ? Feb 6, 2010 17:42 |
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You should see if you can convince them to put in a permanent cyclorama. 
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| # ? Feb 6, 2010 17:51 |
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nonanone posted:You should see if you can convince them to put in a permanent cyclorama. Then settle in for a life of screaming at people for touching it. Our cyc is 50' x 35' at the theatre I work at - the cleaning bill alone is hundreds of dollars. Quite a few hundreds, probably because it's really hard to clean a single piece of fabric that big.
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| # ? Feb 6, 2010 18:22 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 23:30 |
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I was thinking like one of the plastic ones that are sweet and wipe off super easy but they're quite expensive.
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| # ? Feb 6, 2010 18:30 |
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