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Goatstein
Dec 4, 2006



Here's a great picture



Photograph taken from an asbestos-equipped Apache helicopter during a record-setting drop of a phased-thermite-plasma accelerant (PTPA) at Los Calderos Volcano, Nevada, reaching a temperature of at 4,972 K (kelvin) with a heat-signature of 689 solar units.


http://www.dcmilitary.com/stories/021408/waterline_28153.shtml

quote:

New Record Earth Temperature Set at Army's Money-Burning Experiment Facility
By Phil Kramer, NFA Megafire Public Affairs

A world record was established at Army Megafire Facility Alpha on February 1, 2009, as Army Funds-Annihilation Warfare Center Division dumped an experimental compound on the long-burning monetary pyre, creating a sustained temperature of nearly 5,000 Kelvin (K).

With the Chief of Fire Operations (CFO), the head of the Office of Flammability Research, army and defense department dignitaries, scientists, engineers, and a crowd of media from across the country looking on, the famous "Megafire" exploded into a pyroclasm that produced an illumination index of over 30,000 LVXq3, described as "briefly brighter than a million Suns." NFWC Nevada’s scientific and technological community has been researching the viability of using experimental long-burning thermite compounds to burn taxpayer money at never-before imagined speed and intensity.


‘‘This technology here is a huge leap forward in funds disposal,” said CFO, Gen. John Havermas. ‘‘It will (one day) give us tactical superiority when it is adapted to widespread use and give our Sailors and Marines the edge. It is important that the U.S. Military is always in the forefront of cash-flashing tech because I never ever want to see a Sailor or Marine in a fair fight. I always want them to have the advantage.”

‘‘We brought out the brightest minds to begin the fire...and chose the dead Los Calderos volcano not just because of its geographic approbriability, but because of its location close to so many high-tech military establishments,” said Chief of Fire Research, Brigadier General Sean E. ‘‘Smokey” Woodworth III. ‘‘I think that [the project's founder] General Brewer is up there watching today with a big smile on his face.”

The world record temperature was witnessed by Dr. Richard Haas and Catherine MacGillicuddy and will be submitted to the Guinness World Record authority.

Woodworth also noted, ‘‘We should never lose sight of always looking for the next big thing, always looking to make our fire better, bigger, hotter than what anyone else can put on the table.”

Brewer’s cash-burning project includes key partnership with a diverse group of collaborators, including Boeing, Blackwater, Dyncorp, Lockheed-Martin, Executive Outcomes, the Heritage Foundation, Charles Stark Draper Lab, Inc., General Atomics, Dupont, the Department of Energy (Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory), U.S. Army Academy, the Civillian Core of Firegeneers, Army Postgraduate School, and the United Kingdom.

‘‘We are seeing the culmination of years of research coming together to bring focus to exciting new technology,” said Landay. ‘‘Here at CFS we are striving to move (science and technology) from vision to results.”

CFS Megafire will continue experimentation, testing and evaluation of its enormous conflagration and further increase its size until it reaches a maximum of five miles in diameter. The program's goal is to demonstrate a fully-sustainable fire capable of annihilating one billion dollar bills per second by 2020.

So basically, they're going to continue adding size and intensity to the fire, which I'm sure many of you have been following since its inception. The decision not to use nuclear weapons in this project remains a controversial one, I know, but I think they have demonstrated that they're capable of similar results with proven tech.



Above is a basic diagram of the project. Until recently, money has been shipped in from Smithfield Army Base and then hauled arduously up the side of the dormant volcano with old dirt roads. With the re-opening of the Carson City Mint and the building of the new eight-lane Highway 540 with service to Los Calderos, the whole project will be streamlined exponentially, creating thousands of jobs. I don't think I have to tell you the technological advantages we've gained from this project thus far.



As you can see above, while the United States does have something of a lead on the rest of the world, our fire-supremacy is threatened like never before by emerging threats on the world fire stage, and even by non-traditional asymmetrical forces such as rain. It makes me feel proud to be an American to know that this project is scheduled a Class-I priority.

This thread is for discussion, support, and awe of the Megafire. If you are going to criticize the money fire for political purposes please begin a new thread, preferably in LF.

Goatstein fucked around with this message at Feb 6, 2009 around 04:15

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Majestic
Mar 19, 2004
WHY YES I ENJOY THE TASTE OF COCK IN THE MORNING THANK YOU FOR ASKING

I love you Goatstein.

Alctel
Jan 16, 2004

I love snails

how many arabs does it kill?

Red Ken
Dec 28, 2008

by DocEvil


Whilst I am very excited at the ability of the US Army to burn money at competitive rates (especially now that the Chinese military is experimenting with similar fires), is it not possible that these fires could spread, and burn up other reserves of money aside from the intended target? I know that burning money is the mission of the US Army, I just don't see how this method will be accurate than the old lighter-and-dollar-per-soldier techniques. I wouldn't want to see civilian funds combusted by this (admittedly magnificent) new fire.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Attorney at Funk
Jun 3, 2008

...the person who says honestly that he despairs is closer to being cured than all those who are not regarded as despairing by themselves or others.

A year back I read something in PopSci about how the Pentagon was going to start working on mobility platforms for this technology starting in 2010, with the bulk of the research dedicated to an orbital delivery system. With the Obama administration cutting back on defense spending in the 2010 budget, is that no longer feasible? It's be a real shame to lose our technological edge to free up money for condoms and the NEA.

DOCTOR ZIMBARDO
May 8, 2006

I'M JUST ASKING QUESTIONS


That's an impressive fire. I've always been amazed by other Megafire projects undertaken by the United States and other nations. Take a look at this mock-up of an experimental man-portable unit, the MX-87 Ben-Burner.



It's a seriously sexy piece of infantry hardware, I don't think anyone can deny that. What's more, given its high burn temp but low heat transfer rate it's possible to be deployed under nearly any circumstance. The 87 isn't exactly "high speed low drag" but it is a reliable, and sturdy squad resource with the possibility to redefine transformational network-centric 5th generation tactical warfighter moneypit operations.

Cavaradossi
May 12, 2001
Svani per sempre
il sogno mio d'amore

American advances in the military money-fire space are very sensible, given the experience of General Galtieri, who allowed his country to collapse into economic ruin and thereby nearly defeated the British in the Falklands. Only an emergency programme of kicking miners to death and stealing milk from schoolchildren allowed Britain to regain its superiority - a nasty surprise for what everyone would agree is a 2nd-rate power.

hypocrite lecteur
Aug 21, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post


Pretty neat. Has anyone read the recent Wired article about how they're considering a shift to some sort of sustained plasma field for incineration? A bit less impressive, both visually and in scope, but when the money is burned into ash particles as fast you can pour it into the hole, who cares, right?

Also the thing to remember about that graph is that while it might seem like we've got quite a head start on China in the money hole department, their current capacity for money burning is nothing compared to their projected capacity over the next decade. They're working very hard at achieving money burning parity, with an eye towards one day eclipsing the size and efficacy of America's money burning abilities. We really have to think up a more sophisticated and efficient money hole if we're going to stay on top in the future -- the aforementioned plasma solution might be it, but if not, it's my sincere hope that Obama will slip in a couple billion bucks for research and development with this stimulus package.

Goatstein
Dec 4, 2006



Alctel posted:

how many arabs does it kill?

Wow, great question. Currently this fire has only resulted in the deaths of a small dozen number of contractors, pilots and delivery-drivers, none of whom, I believe, were Arab (and there's certainly no way to crosscheck their DNA records now, LOL.) However, as is detailed in Jane's Advanced Flammability Manual 5-2007, fire is what's known as "modular" tech. That is, most types of fires can be force-multiplied and deployed in different burning capacity, not just for the purpose of the oxidization of large swaths of cotton-paper. Obviously any kind of change in the established mission would require a new investment in funding for fact-finding purposes.

Goatstein fucked around with this message at Feb 5, 2009 around 23:36

post-feminist rimjob
Jan 15, 2005

There's no money in poetry, but then there's no poetry in money, either


Attorney at Funk posted:

A year back I read something in PopSci about how the Pentagon was going to start working on mobility platforms for this technology starting in 2010, with the bulk of the research dedicated to an orbital delivery system. With the Obama administration cutting back on defense spending in the 2010 budget, is that no longer feasible? It's be a real shame to lose our technological edge to free up money for condoms and the NEA.

Nice straw man, but this project actually saves us money in the long run -- if we didn't incinerate our surplus money in a smoldering caldera, we'd have no choice but to use other, more expensive measures, such as manual shredding.

Next time, think before you post.

airza
Dec 21, 2007

...then eternity asks you and every individual in these millions and millions about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not.


Alctel posted:

how many arabs does it kill?

The rate at which it kills arabs is comparable to the previous strategy of throwing your money into a hole in the ground, but it consumes less money per arab (mpA)

Loveline
Dec 30, 2005



Wow, what a waste of money I mean there is NO WAY this is going to get us space marines and orbital weapon drops. Geeze guys lets get out priorities straight and stick with the cool stuff, eh.

JonathonSpectre
Jul 23, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 5 days!


Why so much focus on the Money-Hole? What about the Soldier-Hole, or the Energy-Hole? These are important things that America needs to waste also, and all this emphasis on the Money-Hole over them is taking valuable destructive capability away from modernizing our soldier- and energy-wasting facilities.

Grum
May 7, 2007

by mons al-madeen


I feel like I'm missing something. Why are they burning money? Can't they just print more?

kingcobweb
Apr 16, 2005

Tits and cooters, Mr Bond.


Red Ken posted:

Whilst I am very excited at the ability of the US Army to burn money at competitive rates (especially now that the Chinese military is experimenting with similar fires), is it not possible that these fires could spread, and burn up other reserves of money aside from the intended target? I know that burning money is the mission of the US Army, I just don't see how this method will be accurate than the old lighter-and-dollar-per-soldier techniques. I wouldn't want to see civilian funds combusted by this (admittedly magnificent) new fire.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Look, despite whatever liberal garbage you want to spew out, the solid truth is that militarized money-burning is fundamental to the way that America works. The more money we can burn up at once, the farther everyone else keeps their money away from us. This is good because of all the dirty germs their money could carry, and potentially affect us.

But you anti-money-burning liberals would never understand that, so just go back to your Prius

Attorney at Funk
Jun 3, 2008

...the person who says honestly that he despairs is closer to being cured than all those who are not regarded as despairing by themselves or others.

post-feminist rimjob posted:

Nice straw man, but this project actually saves us money in the long run -- if we didn't incinerate our surplus money in a smoldering caldera, we'd have no choice but to use other, more expensive measures like manual shredding.

Next time, think before you post.

Huh, I guess you didn't read the article. It was going to be a joint venture with NASA, who was working on converting freshly processed dollars from the Mint into a low-efficiency rocket fuel.

Here's the article archived online: http://www.popsci.com/node/30794

airza
Dec 21, 2007

...then eternity asks you and every individual in these millions and millions about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not.


JonathonSpectre posted:

Why so much focus on the Money-Hole? What about the Soldier-Hole, or the Energy-Hole? These are important things that America needs to waste also, and all this emphasis on the Money-Hole over them is taking valuable destructive capability away from modernizing our soldier- and energy-wasting facilities.

Right now the energy hole is in hiatus- One of Obama's first orders on Jan 20th was a suspension of research into the energy hole while further research was performed on its feasiblity. From the 'green collar' propaganda-perspective, it is difficult to find a source of energy with similar density to oil. Since we are right now putting all of our oil in a giant hole and lighting it on fire in order to have the greatest enviromental damage and wastefulness, it might be difficult to find a 'green alternative' to this.

Cavaradossi
May 12, 2001
Svani per sempre
il sogno mio d'amore

hypocrite lecteur posted:

Also the thing to remember about that graph is that while it might seem like we've got quite a head start on China in the money hole department, their current capacity for money burning is nothing compared to their projected capacity over the next decade.

Remember that Chinese money-burning capability is artificially inflated by the peg of the yuan against the dollar. The Obama administration are trying diplomatic means to get the Chinese to strengthen the yuan, but sensible military strategists of course know this will be ineffective. The only way to approach this problem is to make the dollar weaker: for example, a large military-led programme of borrowing money and setting fire to it.

lipstick thespian
Sep 20, 2005

by Ozmaugh


This is my dream project, and I've been following it for quite some time. Incredibly sexy, and the civilian applications (the investment banking and automotive industries have long expressed sharp interest in partaking in the added efficiency this new money-burning system brings) are not to be scoffed at.

Some might say the money could be better used elsewhere, but this program is actually cheaper than spending these dollars on hospital care or education as the dollars spent in those fields will still need to be burned or reprocessed (due to wear and tear and breakage) and burning them under controlled circumstances such as this saves on the considerable cost of employing garbage disposal personnel tasked with picking up broken dollar bills from the pavement or from the hands of formerly sick people.

hypocrite lecteur
Aug 21, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post


DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:

That's an impressive fire. I've always been amazed by other Megafire projects undertaken by the United States and other nations. Take a look at this mock-up of an experimental man-portable unit, the MX-87 Ben-Burner.



It's a seriously sexy piece of infantry hardware, I don't think anyone can deny that. What's more, given its high burn temp but low heat transfer rate it's possible to be deployed under nearly any circumstance. The 87 isn't exactly "high speed low drag" but it is a reliable, and sturdy squad resource with the possibility to redefine transformational network-centric 5th generation tactical warfighter moneypit operations.

The best part about this portable unit is that it can actually be created at home by enthusiastic and patriotic Americans. There was even a how-to article in January's Popular Mechanics, and portable money burners have been ruled as protected by the Second Amendment, so if you feel strongly about our country remaining #1 and care to contribute, there's nothing stopping you from doing so. I intend to post a TFR thread soon on how to convert your basic homebrew device to be able to deal with pocket change.

airza
Dec 21, 2007

...then eternity asks you and every individual in these millions and millions about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not.


There has been some talk of the money burning program with the energy burning program. For example, rolling all of our money in oil and then throwing it into the volcano. It has been suggested as an effective compromise and has enjoyed wide support in this news cycle, but typical Democrat partisanship is preventing it from reaching the Senate Floor*.

*All proposals for wasting equity have to be proposed by the Senate.

TedNugent
Sep 23, 2004
The Nuge

With the T53-B Laser Fire Accuracy Guidance System, we can direct streams of fire with unprecedented accuracy insuring less civilian casualties.

mooyashi
Sep 7, 2004


Will this be more or less effective at killing Marines than IEDs, Vehicle Accidents, or the Osprey?

Brucie Banner
Jun 18, 2008

by Fistgrrl


If anything, this highlights the need for us to continue the work on missile interception technology. If we added nuclear tech to this flammability research, we could easily double or triple our mpA as well as our overall temperature. As has been pointed out often in these threads, we can't readily do that without a feasible countermeasure for ballistic thermonuclear missiles. Here's hoping Obama changes his mind (lol, get it? Change?) and re-directs focus on those missile defense platforms with that additional 8 percent he's adding to the Pentagon budget.

Attorney at Funk
Jun 3, 2008

...the person who says honestly that he despairs is closer to being cured than all those who are not regarded as despairing by themselves or others.

airza posted:

There has been some talk of the money burning program with the energy burning program. For example, rolling all of our money in oil and then throwing it into the volcano. It has been suggested as an effective compromise and has enjoyed wide support in this news cycle, but typical Democrat partisanship is preventing it from reaching the Senate Floor*.

*All proposals for wasting equity have to be proposed by the Senate.

Airzie, Airzie, Airzie We had a thread on the energy hole no more than a month ago, and I demonstrated then that the energy hole just isn't in the same league as the current Megafire program, and hasn't been for decades. If you're going to keep carrying torches for outdated systems, the least you could do is present new data to support it.

redscare
Aug 14, 2003


The size of this fire clearly calls for the development of a new money delivery system. The current systems of truck, helicopter, and dirigible are clearly insufficient.

Ideal Gas
May 16, 2008

Statistical conformity through random motions


This is obviously a great advance, but I do not believe that the future of monetary-incineration lies with such devices of mass money-burning. Such projects such as the Objective Independent Budget-Incendiary Weapon, or OIBIW, bring money-burning capacities to the tactical level where so much of today's tax-revenue is cremated - the unique targeting system and above-room temperature 20mm allows individual soldiers to acquire monetary targets quickly and efficiently and then, heh, "waste 'em" without having to expend money that could be burned on things like so called "training" or "fire discipline". The OIBIW has already incinerated millions of dollars during testing alone and will be far more useful for ground-pounding cash-burners than a huge money-pyre.

Cavaradossi
May 12, 2001
Svani per sempre
il sogno mio d'amore

JonathonSpectre posted:

Why so much focus on the Money-Hole? What about the Soldier-Hole, or the Energy-Hole?

The M-Hole, the S-Hole and the E-Hole are all valuable programs, but they shouldn't be viewed as competing with each other. Rather, they can all be seen as part of the overall "America-Hole" program. The world is in awe at how the US has been and will keep being the biggest A-Hole.

hypocrite lecteur
Aug 21, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post


Wheelchair Guy On Oz posted:

Will this be more or less effective at killing Marines than IEDs, Vehicle Accidents, or the Osprey?

There's actually a proposal stuck in committee right now to begin having Marines shovel money into the inferno by hand. This has two immediate benefits; first, the rate of money going into the money hole is increased a little bit, and more importantly, the money that we would have spent on the Marines in terms of benefits, pensions, VA, etc. is now money that we're free to dump in the money hole. They're thinking it should clear committee shortly, and we'll probably see a test run of human delivery methods early in 2010.

post-feminist rimjob
Jan 15, 2005

There's no money in poetry, but then there's no poetry in money, either


Cavaradossi posted:

Remember that Chinese money-burning capability is artificially inflated by the peg of the yuan against the dollar. The Obama administration are trying diplomatic means to get the Chinese to strengthen the yuan, but sensible military strategists of course know this will be ineffective. The only way to approach this problem is to make the dollar weaker: for example, a large military-led programme of borrowing money and setting fire to it.

This is predictable Keynesian nonsense -- the dollar itself has no intrinsic value, unless measured in relation to precious metal, and therefore any plans to weaken our currency that don't involve the additional immolation of thousands of tons of pure gold will ultimately be doomed to failure.

I suspect I'm wasting my time with you, but you really should read von Mises' Treatise on Economics before you try to make any more sweeping economic pronouncements.

Nonsense
Jan 26, 2007



I don't think that fire is hot enough, man the DMOs really need to start hassling the DoD and the PRZ to get some more power pumped into that hole.

Red Ken
Dec 28, 2008

by DocEvil


kingcobweb posted:

Look, despite whatever liberal garbage you want to spew out, the solid truth is that militarized money-burning is fundamental to the way that America works. The more money we can burn up at once, the farther everyone else keeps their money away from us. This is good because of all the dirty germs their money could carry, and potentially affect us.

But you anti-money-burning liberals would never understand that, so just go back to your Prius

OK, can we try to keep ad hominem attacks out of this debate? I'm not against the mass burning of our tax money by the US Army, and I even considered signing up as a PCE (pecuniary combustion engineer for those of you who don't know Army lingo). And I think this new fire is a great thing - I just worry that it might not be a practical improvement on current methods of destroying our hard-earned money.

(USER WAS PUT UP AGAINST A WALL AND SHOT FOR THIS POST)

Sigmund Fraud
Jul 31, 2005



A worthy investment, that will surely end the cold war. They will never be able to match this economically!

airza
Dec 21, 2007

...then eternity asks you and every individual in these millions and millions about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not.


I don't know why the goverment ignored my proposal for a supplemental civilian operated money hole. Providing the citizens with their tax refunds in the form of ten dollar bills dipped in lighter fluid with a box of matches encrusted with diamonds is an effective way to keep costs up while helping to burn money as quickly as possible.

Cavaradossi
May 12, 2001
Svani per sempre
il sogno mio d'amore

Sigmund Fraud posted:

A worthy investment, that will surely end the cold war. They will never be able to match this economically!

I just worry that this fire will turn the Cold War hot.

Loveline
Dec 30, 2005



Ideal Gas posted:

This is obviously a great advance, but I do not believe that the future of monetary-incineration lies with such devices of mass money-burning. Such projects such as the Objective Independent Budget-Incendiary Weapon, or OIBIW, bring money-burning capacities to the tactical level where so much of today's tax-revenue is cremated - the unique targeting system and above-room temperature 20mm allows individual soldiers to acquire monetary targets quickly and efficiently and then, heh, "waste 'em" without having to expend money that could be burned on things like so called "training" or "fire discipline". The OIBIW has already incinerated millions of dollars during testing alone and will be far more useful for ground-pounding cash-burners than a huge money-pyre.

Rumor has it the OIBIW will be canned in favor of the MAAI, the Monetary Automated Acquisition and Incineration project. Apparently the OIBIW has a AFF (acquire friendly foe) problems and was found to be taking money from its own budget! I really like the MAAI anyway since it utilized a UCDB Universal Currency Detector and Bypass which is capable of detecting 20 millions euros (metric lol) per second per civil service project. That since this will be much more useful against any foreign currency while keeping the american dollars burning at rate of 167 million per second per DARPA project. The MAAI combined with this awesome development from the Megafire project means that most likely the MAAI will be rushed through to operation.

Nonsense
Jan 26, 2007



airza posted:

I don't know why the goverment ignored my proposal for a supplemental civilian operated money hole. Providing the citizens with their tax refunds in the form of ten dollar bills dipped in lighter fluid with a box of matches encrusted with diamonds is an effective way to keep costs up while helping to burn money as quickly as possible.

Ummmm...I don't know if you know but those diamonds explode into several shards which catching the light of the pyre creates an intensified rainbow beam which will shred any ol' russkie "warship" in half. I know you agree with me, I just really thought you should know why you're right.

airza
Dec 21, 2007

...then eternity asks you and every individual in these millions and millions about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not.


Nonsense posted:

Ummmm...I don't know if you know but those diamonds explode into several shards which catching the light of the pyre creates an intensified rainbow beam which will shred any ol' russkie "warship" in half. I know you agree with me, I just really thought you should know why you're right.

Excellent. This technology will provide a strong 'first line' defense against our enemies' well-armed and highly visible fleet of large vehicles.

Goatstein
Dec 4, 2006



Nonsense posted:

I don't think that fire is hot enough, man the DMOs really need to start hassling the DoD and the PRZ to get some more power pumped into that hole.

Never happen. When I was in Iraq, stationed at FoB Striker (I was in a tour group for my honeymoon) I heard the local CFO giving the sitrep to the LGBT. Basically, the CFW prop is a matter strictly covered under subsection 23-Q of the DoD mani. Until that changes the CWD-b is strictly a 13-F.

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Svaha
Oct 4, 2005



I hear there have been some organized protests at the burning site just last week. The hippy liberal protesters say that this completely vital and essential project is wasting valuable tax dollars that could be better spent on hospitals or schools or some such ridiculous communist propaganda.

What these people don't understand is that in a giant money conflagration, it's inevitable that some otherwise useful money is going to be burnt. It's regrettable byproduct of money pyres, but it's never going to change, so it's best that you just accept it. You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs and all that.

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