Wiibrew Megathread: What the hell do you mean I can't update?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Games > Wiibrew Megathread: What the hell do you mean I can't update?

.TakaM: Oct 30, 2007

Kiggles posted:

I'm pretty sure this is your problem. 4.0 doesn't break anything when it is installed, but it does break things when you install/update homebrew. Do not change anything that is currently working and simply hold out on installing anything until potential workarounds can be discovered.

Yah it seems 4.0 is the problem, nintendo blocked wad installers or something, looks like I need to downgrade.

# ? Apr 8, 2009 14:10

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# ? May 25, 2013 19:20

Code Jockey: Jan 24, 2006; I shoot my gun and Java be dancin'

.TakaM posted:

Yah it seems 4.0 is the problem, nintendo blocked wad installers or something, looks like I need to downgrade.

That, or again, knowing the community, a patch will be out soon enough. Then again, I'm really, really impatient when it comes to these things, so I'd probably end up trying a downgrade.

Can 4.0 be downgraded safely?

# ? Apr 8, 2009 14:15

.TakaM: Oct 30, 2007

One of my buddies seems to know a foolproof way to downgrade so I think I'll give it a shot.

# ? Apr 8, 2009 14:18

Xythar: Dec 22, 2004; echoes of a contemporary nation

Can you even downgrade without cIOS? I haven't really been keeping up.

# ? Apr 8, 2009 14:24

.TakaM: Oct 30, 2007

Okay, wasn't gonna work, I'll just wait till a work around for 4.0/whatever my problem is.
I can rent wii games for free anyways ;p

# ? Apr 8, 2009 14:57

ExcessBLarg!: Aug 31, 2001

Xythar posted:

Can you even downgrade without cIOS? I haven't really been keeping up.

Yes and no. You need to install a cIOS at some point to actually run the downgrader. I don't believe a cIOS is stricly necesssary to downgrade, it just happens to be that the downgrader everyone uses requires it. Whether or not you can install the cIOS depends on which updates you already have. To explain further, here's a wall of text:

Here's the current state of things. There's basically two things necessary to softmod a Wii. First, you need the ability to run unsigned code in the first place (which allows limited access to the system--basically to do anything a game can do), and second, you need the ability to convince the Wii to install unauthorized packages (wads) which allows for privileged access to the system including full control over the hardware, drivers, system menu, channels, etc..

Running unsigned code (the first thing) can be done with the Twilight Hack, or done by the Homebrew Channel once installed. The only known way to install unauthorized packages (wads) is to exploit a fakesigning bug, that is, to improperly sign packages but in a way that convinces old versions of the Wii firmware that the packages are properly signed. The fakesigning bug was originally available in all versions of the Wii's IOSes (remember, the Wii contains multiple versions of its operating system in firmware for backwards compatibility with older games), but various firmware updates have fixed them one-by-one.

So firmware history to the present:

v3.2 and below: All IOSes contain fakesigning bug, twilight hack can be used to install homebrew channel, wad manager can be used to install unauthorized packages.

v3.3 (pre 10/23/08 update): Some IOSes (30, 31, 37) patched to correct fakesigning bug which prevents the use of some homebrew (e.g., Wii Freeloader). Other IOSes left unaffected, homebrew switches to exploiting those.

v3.3 (post 10/23/98 update): All previously-released-but-vulnerable IOSes are patched. Should've fixed the problem "for good", but is still vulnerable to IOS16 workaround (see below).

v3.4: Same deal as v3.3, except also disables Twilight Hack (which is quickly worked around), and attempts to disable PatchMii (custom IOS) by installing a fake IOS254. Still vulnerable to IOS16 workaround. Also vulnerable to some other, unreleased exploit that was used to allow Homebrew Channel to install on v3.4.

v4.0: Disables Twilight Hack for good, patches IOS16 workaround, patches the unreleased exploit used by Homebrew Channel to install on v3.4.

Some detail: In v3.2 and below everything was exploitable. Prior to the 10/23/98 update, some things were patched but some IOSes were still exploitable. The 10/23/98 was an attempt to "fix things for good" by patching all released IOSes.

The problem was that there was a (publically) unreleased IOS, IOS16, that came on a Wii Backup disc (used by authorized repair shops to return repaired Wiis to factory configuration) which was both 1) properly signed, thus installable on v3.3/v3.4 Wiis, and 2) vulnerable to the fakesigning bug, allowing other unauthorized packages to be installed on v3.3/v3.4 Wiis. This IOS has since been patched and comes with the v4.0 system update, to prevent the old version from being installed on v4.0 and beyond.

Now, if you're on firmware v3.2, you're good to go. If you're on the pre-10/23/98 v3.3 firmware, you're basically good to go, but there's a few programs that won't work (and have since been abandoned). If you're on post-10/23/98 v3.3 or v3.4 firmware, you can install Homebrew Channel, but you can't install unauthorized WADs unless you download the unpatched IOS16 from somewhere. If you do, you can run the IOS Downgrader program to downgrade the patched IOSes to vulnerable versions--you still run whichever system menu version you were running before (3.3 or 3.4), but you're using "v3.2 IOSes" which lets you pretty much do anything.

OK great, so as long as you have fakesigning vulnerable IOSes, you can install custom IOSes, which are hacked versions of regular IOSes that enable other features. Currently the one everyone uses is cIOS 36 rev 9 (the 9th custom revision of original IOS 36), which actually installs itself as IOS249. One of the things you can do with the cIOS is use the "cIOS Downgrader" (a really poor name, since it has nothing to do with the "IOS Downgrader") which allows you to "downgrade" your Wii firmware to any version v2.0-v3.3 from any other version, including v4.0 as long as a cIOS is installed. This is good since it lets people get back to v3.2 from v4.0 if they've installed a cIOS before.

As for v4.0, at this point you cannot install cIOSes or the Homebrew Channel after upgrading if you haven't already installed a cIOS prior to upgrading. However, upgrading doesn't block previous installations of cIOSes (except PatchMii) or the Homebrew Channel, so as long as you have both those installed prior to upgrading, you can use any homebrew compatible with cIOS, which includes the downgrader allowing you to get back to v3.2.

At this point though, it's recommended not to use Nintendo's firmware upgrader anyways. Waninkoko has released a custom firmware updater that installs v4.0 while keeping all the fakesigned vulnerable IOSes from v3.2, which again, pretty much lets you do anything you could do on v3.2.

Now, keep in mind that future Nintendo firmware updates are still very risky. Nintendo could've released an upgrade that disables cIOS, leaving folks with a firmware version that allow neither unauthorized packages to be installed, nor means to downgrade. Doing so would be silly in some sense, since the cat & mouse game would continue and someone would just release a custom upgrader that leaves all vulnerabilities intact, as was done for v4.0--but it's something to be aware of.

If you're interested in running v4.0, this is the most comprehensive guide I've seen. Following that through step 5 is sufficient for homebrew. Step 6 is only necessary for piracy (grr), but step 7 is useful to prevent future disc firmware updates from screwing up your system.

Sorry for the wall of text folks, but I haven't seen all the pieces in one place and I just spent the last week figuring this poo poo out, so maybe it's helpful.

ExcessBLarg! fucked around with this message at Apr 8, 2009 around 16:08

# ? Apr 8, 2009 15:56

ExcessBLarg!: Aug 31, 2001

ExcessBLarg! posted:

v4.0: Disables Twilight Hack for good, patches IOS16 workaround, patches the unreleased exploit used by Homebrew Channel to install on v3.4.

Oi. Apparently the v4.0 update does not patch the unreleased exploit used by Homebrew Channel and DVDX to install on v3.4.

There's a new guide, unfortunately somewhat complicated, that uses the DVDX v3.4 installer in a roundabout way (downgrade IOS35, which allows an unpatched IOS35 to be installed, which allows a cIOS to be installed) to install a cIOS on v4.0 only as long as you have the Homebrew Channel.

So if you do have the Homebrew Channel, but don't have a cIOS installed, that guide will help you get a cIOS installed which can the be used to downgrade to v3.2.

Which also means that, as soon as another game exploit is found, clean v4.0 installations should be exploitable.

# ? Apr 8, 2009 16:22

Code Jockey: Jan 24, 2006; I shoot my gun and Java be dancin'

I am genuinely surprised that there aren't more game exploits than the Twilight one. Maybe just because up till now we didn't need another one?

# ? Apr 8, 2009 16:40

Vinlaen: Feb 19, 2008

Thanks for all of the information.

I'm a little confused on the WAD installation thing though.

If you're on System Menu 4.0 with cIOS installed, can't you still use the WAD Manager to install fake-signed WADs?

The way I thought it worked as that if the WAD Manager used IOS 254 (cIOS) than it could do whatever the heck it wanted to which includes installing WADs, etc, etc.

Am I wrong in my understanding?

# ? Apr 8, 2009 16:42

FlyingCheese: Jan 17, 2007; OH THANK GOD!

I never thought I'd be happy to see yet another lubed up man-ass.

Code Jockey posted:

I am genuinely surprised that there aren't more game exploits than the Twilight one. Maybe just because up till now we didn't need another one?

That's exactly why there isn't. We never needed to find another one until now. There are most definitely hundreds more, we just have to find one.

# ? Apr 8, 2009 17:08

Dessert Rose: May 17, 2004; so delicious...

FlyingCheese posted:

That's exactly why there isn't. We never needed to find another one until now. There are most definitely hundreds more, we just have to find one.

Further, if one had been found it would be in the best interests of the homebrew community not to release it, since it might get patched in, say, the v4 update along with the Twilight hack.

The idea is to let the "enemy" know as little as possible - it costs them a not-insignificant amount to release a patch, so if you know 5 exploits, only one is required to do what you want, so only release that. When they then release a patch for it, you can move on to exploit 2, and they can't fix it until their next patch cycle. If you release all 5 then all 5 get patched in the next update cycle and you've wasted a lot of time.

I would really kill for a page that described in great detail everything that had been done. I remember when I first got interested in this and all anyone would say about the Trucha exploit was that it was a "key in the Windows registry" or something (which doesn't have anything to do with anything at all). There's a page on wiibrew now that explains how it works, which is awesome. I love reading about how this stuff is implemented, and I wish the 3.4 exploit was considered releasable.

Dessert Rose fucked around with this message at Apr 8, 2009 around 18:15

# ? Apr 8, 2009 17:30

ExcessBLarg!: Aug 31, 2001

Vinlaen posted:

If you're on System Menu 4.0 with cIOS installed, can't you still use the WAD Manager to install fake-signed WADs?

The way I thought it worked as that if the WAD Manager used IOS 254 (cIOS) than it could do whatever the heck it wanted to which includes installing WADs, etc, etc.

cIOS is installed as IOS249 these days.

I'm not actually sure how WAD Manager select which IOS to use. I know there's custom versions of it to use IOS16, for example. I think by default it uses regular IOS36 since that's the version that's common and vulnerable in all firmwares through v3.2. Presumably it supports using IOS249 if it's either found, or the others are no longer exploitable. Even if it didn't, it would be trivial to modify WAD Manager to use IOS249.

But yes, one of the main advatages of using the custom 4.0 updater is that IOS36 remains unpatched, so things like Preloader will install successfully whereas they otherwise wouldn't, even with a cIOS installed (since they don't use it).

Edit: Silly me, from WAD Manager v1.3 README:

code:

[ NOTES ]:

- If a Custom IOS is detected, WAD Manager will load it automatically to
  take advantage of its benefits.

So there you go.

ExcessBLarg! fucked around with this message at Apr 8, 2009 around 18:10

# ? Apr 8, 2009 18:08

savesthedayrocks: Mar 18, 2004

I've been following this since it came out, but finally got a hd to work with. I got the usb loader to install, but I get this error:

[+]ERROR: Custom IOS could not be loaded!
(ret=-4100)

I'm on version 3.4U, with wiibrew on ios36 v12.18 which is the latest from what I understand. I followed the tutorial to the t, with my ios in the root folder and everything. Any ideas what the error code is trying to tell me to do? So far google isn't helping me out too much.

# ? Apr 8, 2009 18:41

fishmech: Jul 16, 2006; I see a ship in the harbor
I can and shall obey
But if it wasn't for your misfortune
I'd be a heavenly person today

So I just want to get what installing System Menu 4 will do me. Right now, I already have the latest Homebrew Channel and DVDX for 3.4 installed on my Wii. I don't want to bother using USB Loader or otherwise running "backed-up" Wii games. My system menu is currently 3.4U.
What would happen to my current setup if do install 4.0? There's a bunch of stuff I want to buy on the Shop Channel, so what homebrew stuff would I lose out on by installing System Menu 4?

# ? Apr 9, 2009 01:26

Edoraz: Nov 20, 2007; Takin ova da world

fishmech posted:

So I just want to get what installing System Menu 4 will do me. Right now, I already have the latest Homebrew Channel and DVDX for 3.4 installed on my Wii. I don't want to bother using USB Loader or otherwise running "backed-up" Wii games. My system menu is currently 3.4U.
What would happen to my current setup if do install 4.0? There's a bunch of stuff I want to buy on the Shop Channel, so what homebrew stuff would I lose out on by installing System Menu 4?

Lose the ability to get the Homebrew Channel back for any reason if you lost it (till they find another way), but gain SDHC support.

# ? Apr 9, 2009 01:33

Cream: May 6, 2007; Fett-kart

fishmech posted:

So I just want to get what installing System Menu 4 will do me. Right now, I already have the latest Homebrew Channel and DVDX for 3.4 installed on my Wii. I don't want to bother using USB Loader or otherwise running "backed-up" Wii games. My system menu is currently 3.4U.
What would happen to my current setup if do install 4.0? There's a bunch of stuff I want to buy on the Shop Channel, so what homebrew stuff would I lose out on by installing System Menu 4?

You can access the shop without having to install 4.

http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Wii_Shop_and_IOS61_installer

# ? Apr 9, 2009 01:37

ExcessBLarg!: Aug 31, 2001

savesthedayrocks posted:

I've been following this since it came out, but finally got a hd to work with. I got the usb loader to install, but I get this error:

[+]ERROR: Custom IOS could not be loaded!
(ret=-4100)

Exactly what step is failing?

Error suggests that you don't have the cIOS installed. If you run "AnyTitle Deleter" do you see an entry for "IOS249" under "System Titles"?

savesthedayrocks posted:

I'm on version 3.4U, with wiibrew on ios36 v12.18 which is the latest from what I understand.

This is an instance where the latest version isn't the best. In particular, that version of IOS36 is the one with the signing bug fixed. So if you had tried installing the cIOS with it, it probably didn't work.

savesthedayrocks posted:

Any ideas what the error code is trying to tell me to do?

If you have a cIOS (IOS249) installed already, it should work as is I believe, but in case it needs an unpatched IOS36, you may be best off runing the cIOS Downgrader to downgrade your firmware to version 3.2, then start the tutorial over from there.

If you don't have a cIOS installed already, you'll have to locate and install IOS16 using WAD Manager. Then use the Custom WAD Manager to install cios_fix.wad. Then run the IOS Downgrader. Afterwards, you can optionally run cIOS Downgrader to return to firmware 3.2, but running IOS Downgrader alone should give you a working IOS36 with which you can install the cIOS for the USB loader. I'm not sure there's a great guide that explains the process better than the above, but you can try this or this.

# ? Apr 9, 2009 02:02

Code Jockey: Jan 24, 2006; I shoot my gun and Java be dancin'

So no news of Wii MAME lately, huh?

Having a hard drive would be very, very cool with MAME, though I'm sure the entire set of anything the Wii could emulate would easily fit on a big SD card.

# ? Apr 9, 2009 03:36

Echophonic: Sep 16, 2005; Kirby Gear Solid 3:
Snake Eater

I love how that downgrade helping program accuses people of being pirates if they have hacked WADs. That's such a great way to mess with idiots.

I think I'm just going to wait on a cIOS install or other workaround for the USB Loader for 4.0.

Edit: Actually, could I skip all the firmware downgrading/upgrading bullshit if I just did that workaround to where you install cIOSrev9? That doesn't seem too involved, all I want is the USB Loader.

Echophonic fucked around with this message at Apr 9, 2009 around 06:43

# ? Apr 9, 2009 06:14

Edoraz: Nov 20, 2007; Takin ova da world

Echophonic posted:

Edit: Actually, could I skip all the firmware downgrading/upgrading bullshit if I just did that workaround to where you install cIOSrev9? That doesn't seem too involved, all I want is the USB Loader.

That's what I did. v

v

Works just fine for me.

# ? Apr 9, 2009 07:18

Echophonic: Sep 16, 2005; Kirby Gear Solid 3:
Snake Eater

Edoraz posted:

That's what I did. vv

Works just fine for me.

Yeah, I just got done with it, worked fine. Now all I need is a drive that'll work with the stupid loader.

# ? Apr 9, 2009 08:02

Edoraz: Nov 20, 2007; Takin ova da world

Echophonic posted:

Yeah, I just got done with it, worked fine. Now all I need is a drive that'll work with the stupid loader.

The Toshiba 160gb USB Powered External HDD (mouthful...) works near flawlessly (i've only encountered one problem, and I think that was my fault or something i dunno).

It's like 60 bucks at Wally World.

Check and see if you can get one of those. I've heard good things about Westing Digital My Passport External HDDs too.

# ? Apr 9, 2009 08:27

Xythar: Dec 22, 2004; echoes of a contemporary nation

Yeah I'm using a 320GB MyPassport and it works great. I partitioned off 128GB for the Wii and basically use the rest as a giant USB stick.

# ? Apr 9, 2009 08:51

Bakkon: Jun 7, 2006; SQUIRTLE SQUAD

Xythar posted:

Yeah I'm using a 320GB MyPassport and it works great.

Seconding this. It came in black, but I got a white silicone sleeve for it, so it looks great sitting next to my Wii.

# ? Apr 9, 2009 16:59

FlyingCheese: Jan 17, 2007; OH THANK GOD!

I never thought I'd be happy to see yet another lubed up man-ass.

Bakkon posted:

Seconding this. It came in black, but I got a white silicone sleeve for it, so it looks great sitting next to my Wii.

Just be careful with those sleeves, hard drives generate heat and you have to make sure it's not getting too hot inside.

# ? Apr 9, 2009 17:22

MZ: Apr 21, 2004; Excuse me while I kiss the sky.

Was there a list online for compatible games for the USB loader? I can't find it now...

# ? Apr 9, 2009 19:09

100 HOGS AGREE: Oct 13, 2007; Oh super wow! That looks like a tasty thing for me to eat with my excellent beak!

I think you'd be better off finding a list of games that aren't. I haven't heard of any that don't work.

# ? Apr 9, 2009 20:03

MZ: Apr 21, 2004; Excuse me while I kiss the sky.

after about a couple of hours fiddling about I got it all sorted, 4.0 with usb loader all working nicely!

only thing I noticed is you need a disc (any disc, i.e. wii sports to play anything) for the game to boot off USB but it still works!

awesome!

# ? Apr 9, 2009 20:24

Sad Panda: Sep 22, 2004; I'm a Sad Panda.

For me the only game that doesn't work is House of the Dead 2 t although House of the Dead 3 does.

Check your own games at http://wiki.gbatemp.net/wiki/index.php/USB_Launcher_v1

# ? Apr 9, 2009 23:50

Echophonic: Sep 16, 2005; Kirby Gear Solid 3:
Snake Eater

Either I'm nuts or running the ISO Downgrader screws network connection speed up. Normally I get pretty quick speeds for FTPii and the Homebrew Browser, but after the downgrade it sucks and isn't stable. I ran a system update and now eveything's back to normal and USB Loader still works (with a -6 error, but that's hardly new

# ? Apr 10, 2009 03:25

Xythar: Dec 22, 2004; echoes of a contemporary nation

Hamelin posted:

I think you'd be better off finding a list of games that aren't. I haven't heard of any that don't work.

Some recent PAL games don't work, neither HotD:OK or MadWorld work for me and Zelda:TP doesn't either. This is on a US Wii, but they work fine in GeckoOS so I dunno why USB Loader has problems. MadWorld PAL is weird though, I had to get a hacked version of GeckoOS just to play it at all, so probably that same issue needs to be ironed out in USB Loader.

If all you've got is US games though on a US Wii it should be fine.

# ? Apr 10, 2009 04:56

Dessert Rose: May 17, 2004; so delicious...

Xythar posted:

Some recent PAL games don't work, neither HotD:OK or MadWorld work for me and Zelda:TP doesn't either. This is on a US Wii, but they work fine in GeckoOS so I dunno why USB Loader has problems. MadWorld PAL is weird though, I had to get a hacked version of GeckoOS just to play it at all, so probably that same issue needs to be ironed out in USB Loader.

If all you've got is US games though on a US Wii it should be fine.

MadWorld works fine for me, and I'm pretty sure I have the PAL version. Maybe it's your install that's messed up?

# ? Apr 10, 2009 05:01

Xythar: Dec 22, 2004; echoes of a contemporary nation

Are you running on a US or PAL Wii?

# ? Apr 10, 2009 06:18

Dessert Rose: May 17, 2004; so delicious...

Xythar posted:

Are you running on a US or PAL Wii?

US. Half the games I use USBLoader for are PAL.

# ? Apr 10, 2009 06:32

Xythar: Dec 22, 2004; echoes of a contemporary nation

Might be the modded version of USB Loader that has the problem then (the one that shows more games at once sans the anime). I'll try the original as well.

# ? Apr 10, 2009 06:37

Dessert Rose: May 17, 2004; so delicious...

Xythar posted:

Might be the modded version of USB Loader that has the problem then (the one that shows more games at once sans the anime). I'll try the original as well.

oh man, link me to that one, I want to see more than 5 games/screen

# ? Apr 10, 2009 07:09

Xythar: Dec 22, 2004; echoes of a contemporary nation

Ryouga Inverse posted:

oh man, link me to that one, I want to see more than 5 games/screen

http://www.tehskeen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11187

# ? Apr 10, 2009 07:24

Ballz: Dec 16, 2003; ...I'm sorry for your loss.

Xythar posted:

http://www.tehskeen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11187

The link that's in the last post of that thread seems to be for the source code of the mod, but not the compiled .dol itself. How do I get it to work on the SD card?

# ? Apr 10, 2009 17:16

Xythar: Dec 22, 2004; echoes of a contemporary nation

Oh. Click the word 'released' in the first post of that thread and it leads here:
http://wiinewz.com/forums/nintendo-...01-by-sorg.html

The compiled app is attached to that topic.

# ? Apr 10, 2009 17:51

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# ? May 25, 2013 19:20

Dessert Rose: May 17, 2004; so delicious...

Is there an easy way to build a WAD, or to dissect it? I have a channel version of the unmodded USB Loader and I'd like to replace it with one of the modded versions, but I don't want to lose the icon/music/etc.

# ? Apr 10, 2009 18:34

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