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Fang
Jul 9, 2001

Why couldn't Fluttershy finish her carrot?

She was a little horse

The Rat posted:

I just had to post this somewhere.

http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11628


quote:

Everything you can expect from an SKS, reliable, accurate, stainless-steel lined barrel.

At least it's not one of those gosh darn aluminum chambers:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3323697&postcount=39 posted:

Delta guys tell me of shooting a round and then having to extract the casing with a cleaning rod while on the Street Without Joy. The aluminum chamber caused problems as it would pit and when the shell fired it would fill the pit holes and the extractor could not get the shell out.

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Fang
Jul 9, 2001

Why couldn't Fluttershy finish her carrot?

She was a little horse

The Rat posted:

Yeah, that's the part that really made me . Although I suppose I shouldn't be complaining that much; I sold a Yugo SKS in an ATI folding stock for $240 there.

Does that make me one of them?

No, it makes you a good businessman. The people who are buying at these prices clearly want to pay that much for the gun; nobody's forcing them. The only people we can be mad at for the prices are the panic buyers.

Fang
Jul 9, 2001

Why couldn't Fluttershy finish her carrot?

She was a little horse

Roundboy posted:

*sigh* does gunbroker *ever* have a great deal on things ?

I got a great deal on my Mini-14 off Gunbroker.

Fang
Jul 9, 2001

Why couldn't Fluttershy finish her carrot?

She was a little horse

Pitch posted:

So... does he think reducing the mass of the slide is a good thing?

It can be in some applications. A lighter slide requires a lighter recoil spring to cycle, so during both spring compression and when the slide slaps the frame, less force is transmitted to the gun, thereby reducing perceived recoil.

Fang
Jul 9, 2001

Why couldn't Fluttershy finish her carrot?

She was a little horse

Pitch posted:

But a lighter slide on a lighter spring will still be absorbing the same force from the ignition, requiring more rearward motion to damp it. I assume something bad will happen if your sprung mass requires more rearward motion than the frame allows.

You'd probably want to pair it with a reduced-radius firing pin stop and a beefed-up mainspring to eat up some of that momentum early on. Or maybe shorter slide life is considered acceptable in race guns. I've never looked much into the racegun side of 1911s, although talking with some guys from STi indicates that they really understand 1911 dynamics.

Fang
Jul 9, 2001

Why couldn't Fluttershy finish her carrot?

She was a little horse

Linux Republican posted:

Wouldn't this only be the case on something blowback operated? In recoil operation, the force with which the slide is moving back should be affected more by the mass of the slide itself once it unlocks. It's not being operated by the force from the ignition directly, it's being operated by the recoil energy generated when the bullet leaves the barrel. Once it unlocks, the rearward energy is based on the inertia of the slide. Wouldn't the excess energy be transferred to the frame when the barrel is cammed down?

It's my 'slept-in' day, so maybe I'm missing something.


Would all that be the reason for this bit, since the mainspring would absorb some of that rearward energy before the barrel disengages the slide?

Right. The momentum of the barrel and slide together equal the momentum of the bullet leaving the barrel (minus a smidgen that is transferred to the frame due to the off-center barrel). The source of the slide+barrel motion is simple conservation of momentum. When the barrel cams down and hits the vertical impact surface in the frame, the portion of the momentum equal to the velocity of the system times the mass of the barrel (minus whatever has been changed from kinetic to potential energy in the recoil and mainsprings) goes with the barrel.

The mainspring is relatively heavy (Colt spec calls for 23 pounds) and is recocked at a good deal of mechanical disadvantage to the slide, so it's a great place to ditch a bunch of slide/barrel kinetic energy right off the bat. And because the kinetic energy is being redirected into a spring, the effect is usually perceived as reduced recoil.

Fang
Jul 9, 2001

Why couldn't Fluttershy finish her carrot?

She was a little horse

Crowley posted:

How good/bad are Norincos anyway?

The receivers are dimensionally awesome and made of a great grade of steel. Small parts suck, the barrel is okay, and the bolts are usually crap.

This is all what I've been told; I have no personal experience in this regard.

Edit: To clarify, the way the small parts suck is due to dimensional inexactness and incorrect hardening. Bolts are often found that are too soft and/or have angled locking lugs.

Fang fucked around with this message at Dec 21, 2009 around 23:46

Fang
Jul 9, 2001

Why couldn't Fluttershy finish her carrot?

She was a little horse

Gewehr 43 posted:

Some of us just don't get anything from shooting AR's.

Don't you know that you have to like things other people like?

Fang
Jul 9, 2001

Why couldn't Fluttershy finish her carrot?

She was a little horse

Cyrano4747 posted:

I don't know as much about how pistols wear as rifles, but on rifles at least throat and muzzle erosion start to impact accuracy long, long before the wear on the rifling is bad enough to be noticeable to the naked eye.

That doesn't happen nearly as much when you're not dealing with high-pressure bottlenecked rounds. 1911s will generally keep good accuracy until the rifling wears down (provided the barrel doesn't shoot loose, of course). I don't know if this continues to apply when dealing with higher-pressure rounds like 9mm or .40 S&W, but I bet it does.

Fang
Jul 9, 2001

Why couldn't Fluttershy finish her carrot?

She was a little horse

infrared35 posted:

HKs, too.

Elmer Keith used to say that you could expect about a 5,000 round life from a pistol barrel if you were shooting jacketed ammo. Obviously things have improved a bit since the 1940s.

Metallurgy has improved a lot. Usually, when people talk about the "superiority of modern firearms ," they don't know what they're talking about; however, when it comes to the things we can do with metal now, modern techniques have definitely surpassed what came before.

That's why I have to roll my eyes when crusty old types get huffy about only settling for forged USGI surplus parts. Sure, it's forged--but it's a forging from fifty years ago. It's not guaranteed to be categorically superior to a modern cast equivalent.

Fang
Jul 9, 2001

Why couldn't Fluttershy finish her carrot?

She was a little horse

Cyrano4747 posted:

How do you notice barrel steel behaving?

I'm wondering because I've seen a TON of shot out barrels on 40s era surplus pistols. You really notice it on the German stuff that just had the poo poo shot out of it for decades, especially the Lugers (although I think that's mostly due to people using insane loadings due to pervasive myths about needing an equivalent to +P+ to cycle them reliably), although I've also seen my own fair share of 1911s with heavy wear.

Meanwhile I've also seen people's range 1911s that they claim 20,000+ round counts on that have barrels that, at least to the naked eye, look perfectly fine.

Is the issue just the insane round counts that some of those 60 year old pistols have on them, or is the new steel really that much more wear resistant? I figured given your 1911 obsession expertise you probably have a somewhat unique view on this.

The steel is very much better than it used to be. 1911 barrels used to be matched with the slide by hand-fitting them to the point that at least one lug engaged to full depth, then firing a proof round. The pressure of the proof round would smoosh the metal in the lugs until all three lugs engaged, at which point it would be strong enough to suffer no further deformation. Nowadays, factory drop-in barrels usually only have partial engagement on a single lug, and they handle thousands of rounds without deformation.

Quality of heat treatment may also be a factor: We can control that a lot better now due to better measurement and heating mechanisms, which allows us to make metal harder without as much risk of brittleness or burning the metal. Better tools might help, too, by permitting more precise bore dimensions and crisper edges on the rifling.

Obviously, there's variation in steel strength quality between modern barrels. I once reamed and scraped the barrel ramp on both a $200 Kart match barrel and a cheap no-name barrel in short succession, one right after the other and the difference in hardness was palpable.

Fang
Jul 9, 2001

Why couldn't Fluttershy finish her carrot?

She was a little horse

Motronic posted:

Well....it sounds bad when you say it like that. Part of the proofing process was designed to cause plastic deformation to a couple of engagement lugs that were specifically designed to deform in a manner that causes secure engagement. This isn't all that uncommon today in lots of mechanical fitting procedures (non gun related).

What's also cool is that the 1911 slide bows upward under pressure, with the front and rear end both tipping down about the point of the breech face. This is why the most common point for the slide to crack is at the rear of the ejection port. I was talking to Dan Coonan at SHOT a couple years back and he mentioned that one of the problems he had to solve with his 1911-style .357 autoloaders was binding of the slide at the start of recoil due to how much it was flexing.

Fang
Jul 9, 2001

Why couldn't Fluttershy finish her carrot?

She was a little horse

chairface posted:

There was an AR-18 that's been repeatedly relisted on gunbroker, and for the first few times I foolishly bid on it, cuz the high bid (after half a dozen or more bids!) is usually still under $300. I've seen it get up near a grand and still wind up relisted because "RESERVE NOT MET." I don't know what this guy thinks he's going to get for an AR-18, but given how long he's been relisting it, he's clearly wrong. I just wanted a Widowmaker.

I think a solid 75% of all guns on gunbroker are there because some guy wants his wife to think he's trying to sell off some of his collection but just can't seem to find a buyer.

Fang
Jul 9, 2001

Why couldn't Fluttershy finish her carrot?

She was a little horse

infrared35 posted:

My S&W 64 has an import mark too, because it was sold to and used by Austrian Customs. A 29 is a little weird though; I'd like to know the backstory on that one.

There are punks all over the world who feel lucky.

Fang
Jul 9, 2001

Why couldn't Fluttershy finish her carrot?

She was a little horse

Cyrano4747 posted:

Honestly, that isn't half badly done.

If I had a G19 or something else like that which held no intrinsic collector's value / historical value but which I was highly unlikely ever to sell I could half see myself enjoying something like that.

Not for the price that that kind of work usually commands, however.

Engraving a Glock must be especially expensive given how hard the nitrocarbeurization leaves the metal. I've read that it takes special bits to cut the metal.

Edit: But why engrave a Glock? Their entire raison d'etre is to serve as an ugly, utilitarian appliance. You might as well put racing stripes and chrome accoutrements on a lawnmower.

Fang fucked around with this message at Jun 3, 2010 around 17:03

Fang
Jul 9, 2001

Why couldn't Fluttershy finish her carrot?

She was a little horse

kuffs posted:

Just discovered Armslist, the Craigslist for guns. Looks like there's some decent stuff to be had, but then there's still the usual

http://www.armslist.com/posts/36591...le-custom-ak-47

http://www.armslist.com/posts/35672...t-custom-finish

That FAL is just what you need for tactical operations in an ossuary.

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Fang
Jul 9, 2001

Why couldn't Fluttershy finish her carrot?

She was a little horse

Captain Log posted:

I'm still trying to iron out the character. Iranian immigrant in law school that is a die hard conservative? I think if I add that English is the second language I can get away with more.

If you can play it subtly enough, you should have him believe that all conservatives at heart agree with principles of Islamic fundamentalism.

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