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I bought 10 GE AFCI breakers (THQL1115AF2) for the sub-panel which feeds most of the 15A house circuits. Larger appliances are on another panel they added upstream with the 200A service upgrade some years ago. However, I'm considering replacing the sub-panel as well, since the bus is Al and it's probably around 25 years old. Is this even worth doing and can I use the GE breakers in another brand of box with a copper bus? There's also a transfer switch between the old 100A panel and the newer 200A panel, which I have hooked up to an inlet. Would simplifying things down to one box with a generator interlock improve on voltage drops and dimming lights? I imagine electricians hate questions about dimming lights because the cause could be anywhere upstream of the light, or the high-current appliance kicking on.
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| # ? Jul 19, 2012 22:20 |
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| # ? May 26, 2013 02:06 |
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Carabus posted:I bought 10 GE AFCI breakers (THQL1115AF2) for the sub-panel which feeds most of the 15A house circuits. Larger appliances are on another panel they added upstream with the 200A service upgrade some years ago. However, I'm considering replacing the sub-panel as well, since the bus is Al and it's probably around 25 years old. The new subpanel will list what breakers are compatable with it. If you're getting dimming lights, it's possible there's just loose connections, especially if you've got aluminum lugs. Turn all your power off and torque up all your connections. Make sure you're not going to blow yourself up on the line side of your main in that transfer switch. If that doesn't fix it, call the power company. Dimming lights in the whole house are usually their fault. Especially if you have 200A service now; they typically won't replace your service conductors or transformer until there's a complaint about voltage sag.
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| # ? Jul 20, 2012 13:17 |
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I can't address the generator issues but you can install a circuit breaker into any panel that it is UL listed for. It should tell you which panels it's listed for on the side of the breaker.
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| # ? Jul 20, 2012 13:22 |
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Carabus posted:I bought 10 GE AFCI breakers (THQL1115AF2) for the sub-panel which feeds most of the 15A house circuits. Larger appliances are on another panel they added upstream with the 200A service upgrade some years ago. However, I'm considering replacing the sub-panel as well, since the bus is Al and it's probably around 25 years old.
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| # ? Jul 20, 2012 13:30 |
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Well the poco isn't likely to do poo poo so I'll just accept the flickering, I'm probably the only one who really notices or cares, and ideally the incandescents should be replaced eventually. On the other hand, after spending a couple hours just putting a few breakers in this cramped sub-panel I might was well start with a new box rather than spend hours fishing around matching the hots with the neutrals, extending short wires, etc. It's really a pain to do alone and neatness suffers. I can also hear the new AFCI breakers buzz up close (is that normal?) so I'm gonna get someone to help me and sign off on everything. edit: It appears the AFCI buzzing issue is normal. Carabus fucked around with this message at Jul 21, 2012 around 04:54 |
| # ? Jul 20, 2012 16:32 |
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I have a confounding voltage drop issue at my project house. Whenever any high draw device (power tool for instance) starts up, voltage immediately drops and the motor bogs. Starts off at 120V, drops to 90-100V. This seems to happen on every circuit. I just rewired the whole house (from knob and tube to NM) and installed a new panel The service going into the house right now is very old 2 wire that I am soon to replace with new 3 wire service but while I'm waiting for the power co. to do that, I've run a 12ga temporary jumper cable from the old service fuse panel to the new circuit breaker panel Any ideas on how to diagnose this voltage drop issue?
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| # ? Jul 21, 2012 03:03 |
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Here's probably a simple one: We live in Berkeley, California and my girlfriend got a British electric kettle for her birthday: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Russell-Hob...8/ref=de_a_smtd The plug is obviously not going to work, and she was just going to get a cheapo converter to plug it in to the normal wall socket. I thought that might not be the best idea. I checked behind the fridge and (gas) stove, and I don't see any of the huge 240v wall sockets like I sometimes see for dryers here, so I don't think we have any in the apartment. Is there anyway to wire this up to a normal USA wall plug and have it function without a) setting the house on fire or b) taking 2x as long to boil? Here is a picture of the plug and little info panel for reference: 
dunkman fucked around with this message at Jul 21, 2012 around 05:26 |
| # ? Jul 21, 2012 05:16 |
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dwoloz posted:I've run a 12ga temporary jumper cable from the old service fuse panel to the new circuit breaker panel
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| # ? Jul 21, 2012 05:22 |
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dunkman posted:Is there anyway to wire this up to a normal USA wall plug and have it function without a) setting the house on fire or b) taking 2x as long? edit: Or a US version of a Russel Hobbs kettle. Aren't gas ranges faster anyway? Carabus fucked around with this message at Jul 21, 2012 around 05:41 |
| # ? Jul 21, 2012 05:31 |
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Carabus posted:Not really. Even if you had the 240V from a dryer outlet (unused by a dryer of course) it is a different frequency. Probably will work anyway but no, just buy a new kettle. While this makes large amounts of sense to you and I, unfortunately the kettle was used in an episode of Sherlock Holmes. http://coolspotters.com/appliances/...#medium-2066179 So, best efforts need to be made to see if it is possible to wire up to be used somehow. Is there some non-insanely expensive inverter/transformer that would be used? She wanted to grab some 100 watt one from radio shack for $25, but I thought the 3 kW draw on the box might not be a good match.
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| # ? Jul 21, 2012 06:43 |
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You're looking at a $200-ish transformer to run your $60 electric kettle. Luckily, since it's not motorized, it's unlikely that the 10 hz difference will cause any problems since it's all getting rectified down to DC anyway. http://www.quick220.com/220_catalog.htm thelightguy fucked around with this message at Jul 21, 2012 around 07:20 |
| # ? Jul 21, 2012 06:52 |
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Thanks, I'll lay that out for her. Without the 240v US plug, I think we might just use this as a show piece or something.
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| # ? Jul 21, 2012 07:13 |
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Carabus posted:edit: Or a US version of a Russel Hobbs kettle. Aren't gas ranges faster anyway? I can't speak for a gas range, but an electric kettle will bring a pot of water to the boil a lot faster than an electric range.
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| # ? Jul 21, 2012 08:32 |
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Carabus posted:Well, that sounds sketchy. All utility power comes to the load center and your entire house through 12-awg jumper cables? Also, how is your panel wired if you only have one 120V leg from the power company? It does seem sketchy, yes, but it is only for temporary construction (power tools), no one lives there. I also have it on a 20A fuse so it won't overload. The jumper goes under the main disconnect breaker screw. Then another jumper goes to the other main disconnect screw. Its pretty jury rigged. Now that I think more about it there's probably some part of that jumper mess that isn't making a good contact Edit: AHA! Just got back from the house; I figured it out. It was a bad fuse! Weird stuff. It allowed current to pass through but not very much apparently. dwoloz fucked around with this message at Jul 22, 2012 around 00:24 |
| # ? Jul 21, 2012 16:17 |
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I want to do some quick re-wiring on my exterior circuit breaker box, and I need to get access around it to run some conduit to the box. It's surrounded by stucco, and I can't figure out a way to break the stucco without electrocuting myself. Here's what it looks like:  There are two conduit runs right now, and I basically want to add a third. It's a 100 amp box if that makes any difference.
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| # ? Jul 27, 2012 20:28 |
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I'd like to get a hottub over the coming months and I had a question about my panel. I've rewired some of my house and repaired all sorts of horrid wiring over the years, however i've never pulled new wire all the way back to the panel (I know i know, however I've installed jboxes to easily fix issues) anyway, I have 5 baseboard heaters, range, electric water heater, and that is it for 220v appliances. I know that most hot tubs are 40 - 60 amps@ 220 (avoiding the 110 stuff) What are my options in terms of making this work? Could I install a subpanel to be legal and retain this panel? I have certainly never pulled a permit and as I'd need to pull the meter to replace the panel I figure I need to do this right. Do they make different breakers for this panel? Who even makes it? UL? I'm assuming it is from the 70's - 80's? I'm in Washington State for code related things (Tacoma)     
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| # ? Jul 29, 2012 02:33 |
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Confused_Donkey posted:Who even makes it? UL? I'm assuming it is from the 70's - 80's? That lettering looks like it's from the 70s. Is there no main breaker on that panel? 
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| # ? Jul 29, 2012 15:04 |
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kid sinister posted:Is there no main breaker on that panel? The bottom 60s (60s?) are the disconnect for the lower half. My old Wadsworth was wired like that. Man, you've got to get some gasketing material, or something, on that door at the very least to keep the bugs out before you have a fire. That is not an outdoor box. Are the wire nuts legal? I had to seperately junction box all of my short leads before they reached my panel. drat. Inspector would have a field day with that box. Not saying you did any or all of that. PainterofCrap fucked around with this message at Jul 29, 2012 around 16:08 |
| # ? Jul 29, 2012 16:04 |
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PainterofCrap posted:Man, you've got to get some gasketing material, or something, on that door at the very least to keep the bugs out before you have a fire. That is not an outdoor box. I dunno. It's got a drip cover on top and no knockouts. I sell a lot of outdoor rated stuff that doesn't have gaskets.
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| # ? Jul 29, 2012 16:13 |
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PainterofCrap posted:The bottom 60s (60s?) are the disconnect for the lower half. My old Wadsworth was wired like that. I was wondering why those 60s looked like they just fed the busbars. Then how do you cut the power for the top breakers? Pull the meter?
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| # ? Jul 29, 2012 17:52 |
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that panel is a zinsco. i work in tacoma and those are super common around here. and yeah, you have to pull the meter to kill the top half of the split bus. you can still buy zinsco breakers but i would recommend a panel change and not adding anything to that panel. they're a known fire hazard, along the lines of FPE. PM me if you have questions about what's required in tacoma in terms of permits and stuff. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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| # ? Jul 30, 2012 00:15 |
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N/M, found the answer on my city's website.
Bank fucked around with this message at Jul 30, 2012 around 17:26 |
| # ? Jul 30, 2012 01:59 |
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How long do you think a 121 watt outdoor transformer can survive with a 150 watt load? Apparently seven years. I'm not the genius that set this up, just happened to notice the yard lights were on when I went to the store, and off when I got back. Also a nice ozone smell when I got out of the car. Transformer smelled lovely, btw, and was incredibly hot (even the cord was very hot to the touch). I'm getting 9 ohms across the prongs on the plug, which, if my math is correct, works out to about 13.3 amps. Secondary is open, so hopefully it didn't send 120 volts to the lights. Glad I pulled up when I did, that transformer normally sits just outside my bedroom window.Going to order a 200 watt tomorrow, and also check all the lights and wiring to make sure nothing besides being undersized contributed to the ozonefest. crocodile posted:that panel is a zinsco. i work in tacoma and those are super common around here. and yeah, you have to pull the meter to kill the top half of the split bus. you can still buy zinsco breakers but i would recommend a panel change and not adding anything to that panel. they're a known fire hazard, along the lines of FPE. PM me if you have questions about what's required in tacoma in terms of permits and stuff. I had a Zinsco panel in one apartment I lived at. The kitchen light decided to short one day (years of previous tenants running 100 watt bulbs in a 40 watt fixture) and started spitting sparks all over. The switch wouldn't work (I'm guessing the contacts welded together), so I flipped the breaker. The breaker never tripped, despite being extremely hot to the touch. The switch was smoking a little and had to be replaced. Cheap rear end landlord just replaced the sockets in the fixture despite promising to put a fluorescent fixture in. some texas redneck fucked around with this message at Jul 30, 2012 around 05:26 |
| # ? Jul 30, 2012 05:21 |
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some texas redneck posted:Transformer smelled lovely, btw, and was incredibly hot (even the cord was very hot to the touch). I'm getting 9 ohms across the prongs on the plug, which, if my math is correct, works out to about 13.3 amps. No excuse that this was done, but transformers are subject to impedance of the alternating current at 60hz. The "effective resistance" is higher than a DC ohmmeter will show.
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| # ? Jul 30, 2012 06:14 |
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Maybe this is a silly question, but can I utilize the same conduit raceway for two grounding wires? (one for my grounding rod which is solid #8 and the other for my plumbing jumper which will be an insulated #6)
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| # ? Jul 30, 2012 18:32 |
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Bank posted:Maybe this is a silly question, but can I utilize the same conduit raceway for two grounding wires? (one for my grounding rod which is solid #8 and the other for my plumbing jumper which will be an insulated #6)
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| # ? Jul 30, 2012 22:31 |
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Thanks! I actually ended up posting this in another forum and they mentioned it's ok as long as I don't exceed the fill requirements of the conduit. Should be fine given the conduit is 3/4" and should be more than enough for two ground wires. Can't wait to finally re-route this wire (it's been almost a year since I've been meaning to do this  )
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| # ? Jul 30, 2012 22:47 |
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insta posted:No excuse that this was done, but transformers are subject to impedance of the alternating current at 60hz. The "effective resistance" is higher than a DC ohmmeter will show. I had a feeling something like that was going on. Had it actually turned into a 1600 watt space heater I think the plastic casing would have been more liquid and less warped solid, though if I had to guess I'd say the case was north of 200F when I disconnected it. Definitely hotter than a radiator hose anyway  I'm half tempted to plug it into my Kill A Watt and see what it's actually pulling, but it was enough that the cord was hot to the touch when I unplugged it.
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| # ? Jul 30, 2012 22:48 |
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I have a fairly simple problem with what I think is going to be a complex answer. In my house, we have an upstairs bedroom. The lights for this room are controlled by a switch at the bottom of the stairs. Obviously this is a pain in the tail if you want to go up to the room with the lights on then switch them off once you're up there. There aren't any light switches upstairs for these lights to turn them off. Is there any "easy" solution to this? I thought there had to be some sort of ceiling light you could wire in that was wirelessly controlled by a couple of wireless switches but I'm having trouble finding such a thing. I know the "right" answer -- which is the one I'm afraid of -- is adding another switch upstairs. I'm really not wanting to do this since whoever did the wiring in this 1920s house didn't do it correctly at all so trying to figure out what the hell goes to what is a nightmare. Any ideas of a solution? I even thought about using a pull chain light upstairs and keeping the downstairs switch on all the time but even this has drawbacks. If I'm upstairs with the lights on and want to turn them off before I go downstairs, that makes it so I wouldn't be able to turn them back on from downstairs to go back up. Ugh. Old houses are such a pain in the tail.
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| # ? Jul 31, 2012 02:25 |
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If there's a neutral in the circuit then there are a number of wireless controllers you can get. You switch out your switch for a smart switch (which holds all the brains), and it comes with a little wireless controller that you can keep by your bed. If it's an old house, though, you probably don't have a neutral in that circuit and the solution becomes a lot more complicated.
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| # ? Jul 31, 2012 04:48 |
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My buddy is living aboard his 31' fiberglass sailboat currently. We're getting ready to rewire the 120v system. I'm looking for any advice or suggestions on how to do this. This is a very crude MS paint diagram of what we hope to do. Also of note, the boat may end up in a dock with 50hz, 240v power, if that makes any difference. Also, the 120v and 12v systems are completely isolated from one another. This is the layout. The [blue] is the existing 30amp plug (looks like this). There's a sorry looking 30amp breaker box with two 15a breakers (mounted within 6" of a propane tank, but above the level of the "drain" that vents outside the boat). The first lead goes to galley/kitchen towards the rear, and the second outlet is in the head/bathroom, and AFAIK, doesn't have a GFCI(?) thing. Since he works from "home", and the boat isn't really designed to be heated/cooled (it's designed to be sailed in the Bahamas, where it's 72F year-round), he runs a 5.5A 5500BTU apartment cooler in the summer pretty much continuously off the galley outlet, and in the winter runs an 8amp ceramic space heater continuously in the winter off the head/bathroom outlet. Also, he'd probably want to be able to power a 800w microwave on occasion, plus whatever 12v fridge system he ends up installing (2amps?). We're looking at replacing it with the [red] diagram. A 50 amp socket, new circuit breakers, in addition to the galley and bathroom outlets, we want to add a third outlet on one side, for his laptops (3.5amp each), etc. On the other side we want to add a plug by the chart table, and then another leading forward to the v berth/forward cabin. Finally, this is sitting in salt water, if that makes any difference. The existing 120v infrastructure survived 35 years, so I'm not too worried about it, but whatever was in there might have been "marine grade", or whatever the nearest equivalent is. I'm thinking hospital quality plugs. 
Hadlock fucked around with this message at Jul 31, 2012 around 13:35 |
| # ? Jul 31, 2012 13:33 |
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dunkman posted:Here's probably a simple one:
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| # ? Jul 31, 2012 16:49 |
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Well, we fixed it with old fashioned american ingenuity and know how. I just took some old thin speaker wire I had left over, wrapped it around the leads of the plug and just jammed them in our wall outlet near the gas oven. Works fine! But in reality, It turns out that the same company (http://www.strix.com/) makes the base stations for all Russell Hobbs, Chef's Choice and about 50 other kettle makers. So we took the kettle in to Target, found a base station that matched the display ones, and picked that up for about $25. It takes about 4 minutes to boil instead of 90 seconds like it would in the UK, but that's to be expected. So crisis averted. And now we have a back up kettle. British LED kettle on american base, exact same british base with different plug in front, not plugged in! 
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| # ? Aug 1, 2012 07:02 |
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So I was finally able to fish some wire from the breaker box to the front of my house, but want to make sure I am bonding it to the right location. I thought this was a bonding jumper, but this is actually one of two GECs required by my city that I am replacing. The service comes through what looks like lead piping. The spigot outside of my house (which the current GEC wire is connected to) is copper, and the pipe coming into my house is copper. Does it matter where I am bonding the wire? Here is the requirement directly from my city website: quote:A metal underground water pipe in direct contact with the earth for 10 ft. or more and electrically continuous by bonding around insulating joints to the points of connection of the grounding electrode conductor. Interior metal water piping located more than 5 ft. from the point of entrance to the building shall not be used as a part of the grounding electrode system or as a conductor to interconnect electrodes that are part of the grounding electrode system.
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| # ? Aug 2, 2012 20:19 |
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That means attach the grounding bond within 5 feet of the service entrance, preferably as close as possible to the wall. Also, lead pipes are only used for waste water, not supply water. That's probably galvanized steel pipe. You can test if it is with a magnet.
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| # ? Aug 3, 2012 01:43 |
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I started to replace some light switches for my parents today, only to discover their 25-year-old house unsurprisingly doesn't have grounded switches. The new switches, compliant with modern code, have a screw for a ground connection. My understanding is that under the NEC, we could simply ignore the ground if one were not available. But then we have the can of worms: Inside that double-gang wall box is a bundle of five ground wires connected with a wire nut. So there's ground available with some work. What's the correct course of action here? Split the ground bundle in half, jumper between the two, and pigtails to the switches? Molten Llama fucked around with this message at Aug 3, 2012 around 02:19 |
| # ? Aug 3, 2012 02:13 |
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Bank posted:So I was finally able to fish some wire from the breaker box to the front of my house, but want to make sure I am bonding it to the right location. I thought this was a bonding jumper, but this is actually one of two GECs required by my city that I am replacing. Is that the first place the water comes out of the ground? If so, attach with a cold water clamp. Connect as close to the spot where the water pipe emerges from the earth as possible.
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| # ? Aug 3, 2012 02:15 |
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kid sinister posted:Also, lead pipes are only used for waste water, not supply water. That's probably galvanized steel pipe. You can test if it is with a magnet. Not in Philadelphia...I'm still finding lead water mains now & then along with the occasional run in the basement. They're getting rarer...
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| # ? Aug 3, 2012 04:17 |
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PainterofCrap posted:Not in Philadelphia...I'm still finding lead water mains now & then Lead... mains? Are there a lot of  in Philly?Molten Llama posted:I started to replace some light switches for my parents today, only to discover their 25-year-old house unsurprisingly doesn't have grounded switches. The new switches, compliant with modern code, have a screw for a ground connection. For grounded metal boxes it is possible to ground to the box if you use self-grounding devices. Those things have a small spring to press one of their mounting screws against their own frame. I would just wire up a new ground pigtail to that existing bundle, don't bother splitting it. kid sinister fucked around with this message at Aug 3, 2012 around 18:39 |
| # ? Aug 3, 2012 18:35 |
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| # ? May 26, 2013 02:06 |
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kid sinister posted:For grounded metal boxes it is possible to ground to the box if you use self-grounding devices. Those things have a small spring to press one of their mounting screws against their own frame. I would just wire up a new ground pigtail to that existing bundle, don't bother splitting it. Thanks. Duh. I never considered the easy option. Seven conductors (existing bundle + two switches) was too many for the nuts I had or could find, so I immediately jumped to hacking it up into two smaller bundles.New pigtail (six conductors) to the existing bundle is much less work and still listed. I dig it. Molten Llama fucked around with this message at Aug 3, 2012 around 21:18 |
| # ? Aug 3, 2012 21:15 |
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