|
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge grover, it is greatly appreciated!grover posted:They're required in kitchens (2 dedicated 20A GFCI circuits), bathrooms, garages, laundry rooms, outside, and a few misc other rooms. Pretty much anywhere there is water and an increased shock hazard. They're also a common way to retrofit 3-prong outlets older homes where there is no ground. grover posted:Generally speaking, 30A=#10, 20A=#12 and 15A=#14. There are tables in the NEC for larger cables. Thank you again. You're great 
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2010 05:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 18:41 |
|
|
Socratic Moron posted:In areas with water, do other fixtures have to be special as well? For example, in a bathroom, does the light socket (you screw a bulb into) in the shower have to be something other than the $2.00 home depot special? Nope, feel free to cheap out. I can't say that I've ever seen a GFCI light fixture... Hair dryers all have GFCI plugs, that's about the closest you'll get to a GFCI appliance.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2010 06:26
|
|
|
Socratic Moron posted:Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge grover, it is greatly appreciated! Bathrooms are required to have a 20A dedicated GFCI outlet that can't feed anything but bathrooms. All bathrooms can share one GFCI if the lights and fan are on another circuit, OR you can put the lights and fans on the same circuit as the GFCI, but you can't share this circuit with another bathroom. There are restrictions on how close you can put $2 light fixtures to showers before needing waterproof fixtures, but pretty much, yeah, you're fine with whatever.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2010 10:20
|
|
|
I've been checking the electrical wiring in my house during these cold winter months and haven't identified any real problems (outside of some silly circuit design I intend to rectify in the near future). Occasionally, maybe twice a day, I have very short power outages, it seems. My clock on my oven has to be reset constantly and since my father has been at the house recently during the day, he's reported that the lights flicker at the same time. Is there any way that I can set something to track when I'm getting these power slumps without sitting in my house and unblinkingly staring at a lightbulb for hours?
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2010 21:00
|
|
|
Ohhh kay. I'll post a thread after closing, but I confirmed what the home inspector already told me: Three GFCI outlets in the kitchen/bathroom. One of them is wired backwards. The other two are fine- at least they light up properly in the GCFI tester. The three prong outlets in the rest of the house that have air conditioners plugged into them? Not grounded. At all. As expected. The exposed electric cables I have been able to find in crawlspaces and whatnot are 1954 spec, whatever the hell it is they used back then. Few other things as well, (shag carpet yay) but not like the burn-the-house down variety.
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2010 22:42
|
|
|
Dragyn posted:Is there any way that I can set something to track when I'm getting these power slumps without sitting in my house and unblinkingly staring at a lightbulb for hours? When you get home, if the clock is the wrong time, it will tell you how many hours and minutes since the power went out.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2010 05:30
|
|
|
Smiling Jack posted:Ohhh kay. I'll post a thread after closing, but I confirmed what the home inspector already told me: Are the three GFCI outlets on the same circuit?
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2010 18:18
|
|
dorquemada posted:That's right about the time the industry was transitioning to PVC outer sheathing for wires from cloth. Cloth insulated romex isn't as dangerous as it looks, but still, if you're doing rewiring work you may as well replace it. I'm not sure. Here's a picture of the panel:  Click here for the full 1536x2048 image. Labels, starting on the left and moving down: Top 2: Range Lights, 2nd fl W/P outlet sp88  D/W (dishwasher, I presume) Bathroom Main Right: Dryer (currently no washer/dryer in house) Appliance Lights 1st flr Burner 2 outlets den 1 outlet sm bedroom I'm thinking "appliance" might be the kitchen circut, not sure. This is what happens when a little old lady has her house rewired by a friend. There is also an outdoor GFCI outlet, wired correctly for the sprinkler system.
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2010 22:30
|
|
|
Figured one of you guys might know the answer to this. I need to move an electric water heater. The spot where it makes the most sense in terms of space is far enough away where the slack in the line wont be enough. Current line is 10-2 and I have like 6 feet of extra 10-3 handy from an old project. I am going to splice this in to extend the line. What is the relevant code I need to pay attention to when making this splice? Can I attach a junction box into the joist area in the ceiling, get some wire clamps/grommets at the inlet/outlet, use wire nuts to connect the lines, and slap a cover on it to call it a day? State is Ohio and I know this method will be safe but I dont know if something in Ohio building code might not agree with it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2010 07:33
|
|
|
dietcokefiend posted:Figured one of you guys might know the answer to this. Yep. J-box in an accessible location securely fastened to something immobile, wire nuts on the wires, cable clamps on the openings. Staple/clamp the wire within 18" of the j-box and every 3' after that. If the j-box is metal, connect a grounding pigtail to the ground wire in your cables.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2010 14:48
|
|
|
babyeatingpsychopath posted:Yep. J-box in an accessible location securely fastened to something immobile, wire nuts on the wires, cable clamps on the openings. Staple/clamp the wire within 18" of the j-box and every 3' after that. If the j-box is metal, connect a grounding pigtail to the ground wire in your cables. Perfecto... thanks!
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2010 16:18
|
|
|
One last question which also relates to my other DIY thread. If I have my main electrical box in an area where I would have a projector screen covering it, am I breaking any big no-no style of electrical code? The access panel could still be opened, but it would require an additional step of moving the projector screen out of position. Its either that relatively easy step of moving something on the rare occasion that I need to reset a breaker or turn off power, or spending $$$$ on moving my service box like 4 feet.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2010 16:33
|
|
|
dietcokefiend posted:One last question which also relates to my other DIY thread. If I have my main electrical box in an area where I would have a projector screen covering it, am I breaking any big no-no style of electrical code? The access panel could still be opened, but it would require an additional step of moving the projector screen out of position.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2010 17:09
|
|
|
dv6speed posted:Not only is that a bad idea... it is entirely a big no-no as far as the electrical code is concerned.. Would this apply even if it was a flip-up or pull-down screen? EDIT:  I really want the punch the fuckers that designed my house. I am already moving the furnace and water heater. Bringing in someone to move that breaker box would be insanity 
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2010 17:14
|
|
|
babyeatingpsychopath posted:Yep. J-box in an accessible location securely fastened to something immobile, wire nuts on the wires, cable clamps on the openings. Staple/clamp the wire within 18" of the j-box and every 3' after that. If the j-box is metal, connect a grounding pigtail to the ground wire in your cables. On a related note... how do you tell when the staple is tight enough, but not too tight? Stapling 120V with metal staples makes me a little nervous
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2010 18:25
|
|
|
slap me silly posted:On a related note... how do you tell when the staple is tight enough, but not too tight? Stapling 120V with metal staples makes me a little nervous Generally speaking the staples for the larger wire have nice plastic/rubber insulating material on them and you just hammer for the fuckers in place. You get it snug and that is all that matters. Just dont go insane with a sledge or something.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2010 18:26
|
|
|
dietcokefiend posted:Generally speaking the staples for the larger wire have nice plastic/rubber insulating material on them and you just hammer for the fuckers in place. You get it snug and that is all that matters. Just dont go insane with a sledge or something. Plastic-coated is fine, or just use a staple gun wide enough. Don't cut the jacket and you're good. The outside of Romex can take a pretty decent beating, and the insulation around the wires inside THAT can take a pretty good beating, too. Can't blink sideways at the stuff with a razor knife in your hand, though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2010 23:45
|
|
holy poo poo I own a house  thanks for the help with the electrical; dedicated house thread to follow. Fake panelling and shag carpets galore.
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2010 01:43
|
|
|
Smiling Jack posted:holy poo poo I own a house
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2010 01:49
|
|
|
Cross posting with this gem from the plumbing thread since my water heater project ended up being such a barrel of laughs (I kid it was torture, loving kill me) http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3131944&pagenumber=10#post371789653 Retarded monkeys assembled my loving house. When I removed a flexible conduit material from my 10-2 water heater circuit I found a MASSIVE scorch mark which happened before assembly. The assholes must have tried to cut into the wires when the system was powered on, since all conductors in the line had a sharp cut mark on the same line going across. The Romex shell was burnt to a crisp about 2-3" up and down. My question right now is can the line still be used? I cut out the damaged section since I didn't need it anyways, but I just want to make sure that a line that was shorted some time in the past isnt going to creep back up and try to kill me someday.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2010 06:25
|
|
|
dietcokefiend posted:One last question which also relates to my other DIY thread. If I have my main electrical box in an area where I would have a projector screen covering it, am I breaking any big no-no style of electrical code? The access panel could still be opened, but it would require an additional step of moving the projector screen out of position.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2010 10:39
|
|
|
I've got a question about code. I'm putting in a new main panel, and my preferred location is close to a window. Can anyone advise as to whether there is a minimum distance I need to maintain between the two?
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2010 14:42
|
|
|
grover posted:Yeah, it's illegal, but so is jaywalking. As far as code violations go, I still wouldn't recommend it, but I wouldn't sweat doing this in my own house. (Actually, I've done far worse in my own house.) Just out of curiosity, what's the difference between a movable screen blocking the breaker panel and having a cabinet door covering it, with the panel recessed in the wall behind it? Either way is one simple action to remove the obstacle, and I know the cabinet doors are kosher, because I have one covering the panel in my office. When the inspector came out to do the rough-in inspection on my basement wiring, he even commented on how he liked the style of the door (I made a door with an oak frame and a magnetic white board panel). Sadly, the door is no longer with us, since my wife didn't like the fact that dry-erase markers would leave marks when they were erased.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2010 19:24
|
|
|
Smiling Jack posted:I'm not sure. Here's a picture of the panel:
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2010 21:42
|
|
|
This may just be something I need to ask an HV/AC guy about, but maybe one of you will know! Just looked at a house, and noticed that the air conditioner said it wanted a 30A fuse, max. The circuit breaker it's wired into is a 50A breaker. 20A seems like a pretty big difference to me-- that's something we'd ought to get fixed, right? I know it probably won't be too big a hassle to get fixed by the seller, but I thought I'd check in with you guys now since it's after-hours at most HV/AC places at the moment. House is 43 years old, and the AC unit is probably 10.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2010 01:56
|
|
dorquemada posted:One way to find out: flip the breaker and see what works and what doesn't. Yep, this. Seems to control the wired-backwards GFCI outlet by the sink along with another outlet. Smiling Jack fucked around with this message at 14:17 on Feb 2, 2010 |
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2010 02:24
|
|
|
effika posted:This may just be something I need to ask an HV/AC guy about, but maybe one of you will know! Just resize the breaker smaller. Unless it's feeding more than one thing, it's fairly simple to cut off mains power, pop out the old breaker, pulls the wires, wire up the smaller breaker, and pop it back in. Hell, I've done that live because my house doesn't HAVE a mains breaker. God bless lineman's gloves and arc protection gear!
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2010 10:37
|
|
|
Our closing is March 5th for an awesome 4br 1995-built ranch on a crawlspace. 200A service with a mains breaker, and everything is up to code except for an improperly terminated loose wire in the crawlspace, which is easy enough to fix. However there are some projects that need to be done and sooner rather than later. I'll know more about what I have to work with once we have the keys, but most of them shouldn't be too difficult. Install lights in vaulted living room ceiling - currently there are two recessed lights but they are more intended for highlighting the fireplace/mantle. Considering that a light switch already exists, it should be a simple matter of extending that circuit to two additional lights to be installed. Install overhead lights in BR1, BR2, BR3 and wire for ceiling fan installation - Why anyone would custom-build a home and not include overhead lights is beyond me, but this is going to be annoying. The light switch by the door does the whole "control top outlet for a lamp" thing. For this, I'm assuming I need all new outlets, disconnect the wiring from the switch and rewire all outlets to the main circuit line for the room, and run the cable up the wall and over to the center of the ceiling for light/fan installation. Power drop high up on the wall in the garage for a network rack - This will probably be one of the easier things to do, I just need to select a good spot to locate the rack. Replace multiple light fixtures - 10 Goto Lowes 20 Let wife buy whatever she wants 30 Turn off breaker and wire in fixture 40 goto 10 Install track lighting above kitchen counter - Circuit already exists for a light, i'd just need to patch up the ceiling where it is currently.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2010 15:51
|
|
|
We need a "Don't burn your barn down: the industrial wiring thread." thread. For those of you who don't follow the metalworking thread, I am the new proud owner of a South Bend metal lathe. This is a 3 phase piece of equipment, and as you might surmise, I only have single phase. (Yes I was aware of this before buying the equipment.) So anyway, I'm asking three questions. 1. Any good internet sources that I can use to brush up my 3 phase motor control knowledge? 2. In the real world, how to static and rotary phase converters differ as far as end result goes? And, more importantly, will a static phase converter tear up my beautiful 3 phase motor from imbalance, or is this over rated? 3. I've seen all sorts of plans on the internet for building both DIY static and rotary phase converters. How bad of an idea is this? While I'm not familiar with 3 phase power, I've been working with electricity and electronics since the 4th grade, so I got some idea of how not to kill myself. I'm more concerned about not killing my lathe.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2010 15:52
|
|
|
An important thing with most of the 3-phase converters is the amount of power the device draws. What is your lathe rated for?
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2010 19:18
|
|
|
dv6speed posted:We need a "Don't burn your barn down: the industrial wiring thread." thread. 1) Motor controls are motor controls. The only difference is in the contactor going to the motor; a 3-phase will have 3 wires, a single-phase will have two. 2) A static phase converter uses some capacitors to introduce offset from your single phase long enough to have the motor start as a 3-phase motor. After that, your motor spins two-phased, so you're at either 57% power or 66% power, and loading near this creates significant heating. A rotary phase converter is just a single-phase motor with a three-phase generator attached, either wound around the same shaft or mounted to the output. This generates real live 3-phase power in your house! YAY! 3) Making one of these is dead simple. I wouldn't recommend building a static converter for a lathe. If you load it down, it overheats and dies. A rotary converter is as easy as getting a single-phase motor 20% larger (HP rated) than your 3-phase and wiring it to a suitable 3-phase generator. Another option is to build/buy/steal a 3-phase VFD. The super-cheap AC ones don't do much VF, they just vary the voltage after synthesizing 3-phase waveforms. It's basically a rectifier section, three single-phase synthesizer sections (2-8 SCRs), and a control section. The electronics megathread probably has some idea of how to actually build one that won't blow up.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2010 05:11
|
|
|
I have a single switch on 12 gauge wire. I want to tear that switch out, put in a two gang box with a second switch and run some 14 gauge wire to a new light. Therefore, I'd be tying together 12 gauge wire, 14 gauge wire, and 14 gauge pigtails. Is this ok? Thanks
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2010 09:29
|
|
|
Socratic Moron posted:I have a single switch on 12 gauge wire. I want to tear that switch out, put in a two gang box with a second switch and run some 14 gauge wire to a new light. Therefore, I'd be tying together 12 gauge wire, 14 gauge wire, and 14 gauge pigtails. Is this ok?
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2010 16:15
|
|
|
My wife and I just moved in to our first house last week and I've run into a bit of electrical issue. We were watching TV last night while microwaving something and the whole house lost power. After some investigation it appears that one breaker had tripped. Now, I would've hoped that someone had been smart enough to wire enough different zones to make sure the kitchen appliances weren't on the same breaker as the other side of the house, but I can understand if this is the case. I could only come up with about 11 amps of power usage (1000w Microwave, 300w Plasma TV, some CFL lights), but I can also imagine that perhaps the breaker is a bit sensitive (confirm or deny, they become more sensitive as they're tripped?) and it did look a bit older than the bulk of them. What I can't understand is why this one tripped breaker is killing power to the entire house? The kitchen appears to have been renovated right before we moved in and there was obviously some electrical work done since those are the only grounded outlets in the house. Is it possible their electrical contractor wired things up wrong to the breaker box and that's causing the problem?
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2010 21:26
|
|
|
BeastOfExmoor posted:Now, I would've hoped that someone had been smart enough to wire enough different zones to make sure the kitchen appliances weren't on the same breaker as the other side of the house, but I can understand if this is the case.  I'm pretty sure NEC requires that kitchen circuits not extend beyond the kitchen, but depending on how old your house is that doesn't mean much. My entire kitchen (minus the fridge I think) and front wall of my living room is all on the same circuit, so if we get too much going at once we'll lose power in both rooms. Did 100% of your house lose power? And were you able to restore it by flipping just the kitchen breaker, or did you need to flip the main power breaker up top?
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2010 21:42
|
|
|
BeastOfExmoor posted:My wife and I just moved in to our first house last week and I've run into a bit of electrical issue. We were watching TV last night while microwaving something and the whole house lost power. After some investigation it appears that one breaker had tripped. Now, I would've hoped that someone had been smart enough to wire enough different zones to make sure the kitchen appliances weren't on the same breaker as the other side of the house, but I can understand if this is the case. I could only come up with about 11 amps of power usage (1000w Microwave, 300w Plasma TV, some CFL lights), but I can also imagine that perhaps the breaker is a bit sensitive (confirm or deny, they become more sensitive as they're tripped?) and it did look a bit older than the bulk of them. What I can't understand is why this one tripped breaker is killing power to the entire house? The kitchen appears to have been renovated right before we moved in and there was obviously some electrical work done since those are the only grounded outlets in the house. Is it possible their electrical contractor wired things up wrong to the breaker box and that's causing the problem? If the kitchen was just renovated and the electrical circuits modified/upgraded, it was required to have been brought up to modern code, regardless of how old the house was. Is your house still under warranty? And yes, breakers can be overly sensitive, especially if they've tripped a lot in the past, which I bet yours has. It's an easy DIY replacement, but is dangerous since you're working in the electrical box, and the cables feeding your main breaker are still hot, even when you open (turn off) the main breaker. I'd make sure the main problem is addressed, though, don't just band-aid it. (Replace the breaker, too, though, it's only like $2.) grover fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Feb 23, 2010 |
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2010 22:03
|
|
|
Thanks for the replies. stubblyhead posted:
Previous to this I lived in a house built in the 40's that seemed to have the kitchen on the same circuit as the washer and dryer (not even on the same floor mind you) so I'm well aware of  circuits. I'd hoped this house would be different, but alas it looks like I now own the problem. As far as I can tell 100% of the house lost power and flipping the tripped breaker (I didn't spend too much time reading the labeling of it, but I will look closer tonight) restored power. The main breaker never tripped, which is what doesn't make sense to me. grover posted:Yes, modern code does prohibit this. You're required to have two dedicated GFCI-protect outlets feeding the kitchen, and only the kitchen. (They can feed outlets in the dining room and butler's pantry, too, but certainly not lights or rooms on the other side of the house.) Virtually everything else in the house can legally be on a single circuit (still a bad design), but the kitchen and bathroom are supposed to be separate to prevent not nuisance trips, but dangerous overload conditions that kitchen and bathroom appliances frequently cause, and nuisance trips are symptomatic of. I'm not sure what the history of the renovation is, I'm just going off the fact that they obviously did some work within the last few years. I'll take a look at the breaker a little closer tonight and take some pictures. I'd been wanting to take a look at doing some electrical work on the house (grounding all/some of the the outlets, possibly adding some outlets), but I'm kicking myself for not testing to see which circuits went where when we did the inspection.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2010 22:38
|
|
|
BeastOfExmoor posted:I could only come up with about 11 amps of power usage (1000w Microwave, 300w Plasma TV, some CFL lights), but I can also imagine that perhaps the breaker is a bit sensitive (confirm or deny, they become more sensitive as they're tripped?
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2010 23:01
|
|
|
Slugworth posted:I may get corrected by an actual electrician, but I was always taught that a circuit can only reliably handle about 80% of the amperage listed, due to resistance in the lines. So a fifteen amp breaker can only be trusted to hold about 12 amps before tripping. So, if you have 11 amps running consistently, all it would take is a little voltage spike (A fridge condenser kicking on), and you're outta luck. Breakers are rated by their overload current: the current that must be present for 5 or more minutes to trip. The more current, the faster the trip; breakers are all "inverse-time" devices. The number on most breakers is the 5-minute setting. That is, a 20A breaker will carry 20A for 5 minutes before tripping. Anything less and it shouldn't trip, ever. Most breakers can run at 4x or 5x rating for a second or two before tripping. "Instant-trip" zone is usually 10x-20x. So you could constantly pull 18A all day and not have a problem. You could even have a situation where you draw 30A for a few seconds and not trip; it's not until the circuit starts to pull 200-500A that the thing will instantly click. In general, when selecting circuit breaker size, you calculate the total load on the circuit and divide by .8. So if your load is 12A, you get a 15A breaker; 16A = 20A breaker. All this being said, breakers do wear out over time, and some brands suck. If you can't think of a logical reason you're pulling over 11A on a 20A circuit and the breaker is tripping, replace it. If it trips and it's new, something is about to catch fire in your wall somewhere, and maybe has already once.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2010 00:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 18:41 |
|
|
I got curious and started googling, and found a lot of sites that seem to agree with me, but use a lot of terminology that is over my head. http://www.rd.com/18099/article18099.html "As you add up the electrical loads, keep in mind that a wire rated at 15 amps can carry 15 amps all day long. However, 15-amp breakers and fuses can only carry 12 amps—80 percent of their rating—on a continuous basis. Continuous basis is considered to be a circuit loaded to capacity for three hours or more. This 80 percent rule applies to all breakers and fuses." Again, I might be missing something obvious here. Anyone care to shed some light?
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2010 04:13
|
|