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Dr Snofeld posted:As an aside, there's a bunch of different versions of King's Bounty, it seems, but are they all worth playing or does one supersede the rest? You want Armored Princess/Crossworlds. The original The Legend (not the original original, obviously) is worth a look if you can't get enough of it, but I think AP improves on The Legend in subtle ways, like toning down the strength of magic, as well as adding a few fun units, like Demonologists. The main issue I have with the KB games is that after 20-30 hours or so, I get burnt out on them since I'll have all the skills I really need (doublecast, Sacrifice, Mind Control, etc.) and most of the "endgame" units I want, so it all plays out very much the same. I also loathe the boss fights, too, but ymmv on that.
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 15:28 |
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| # ? May 20, 2013 22:31 |
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Vivec posted:just downloaded fallout1, what's a good character build to use? The "Gifted" trait is very, very good - the skill reduction / level is irrelevant and mostly countered by the extra point in intelligence anyway. "Small Frame" is also another good one with effectively zero downsides. Charisma is your dump stat, as it mainly affects how many followers you can have at time. Good skills to tag are speech and small guns.
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 15:31 |
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GrandpaPants posted:
5 actually has some great fan made scenarios and even a fan "expansion" which improves and expands the campaign. Makes the game much better, but I don't have nay links on me at the moment. Should be able to google search HoMM5 fan patch or expansion.
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 15:34 |
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Nessin, how do you define value anyway? Are you taking into account development costs and opportunity cost project decisions that the companies make? For the games on consoles, you have to take into account publishing costs like manufacturing costs and the order shipments to the retailers like Best Buy and Gamestop. Add that in with the verification process and you get significant costs for breaking into the market. This also limits the kind of discounting that you can get for console games. Digital distribution has significantly lower. The server costs and maintenance costs are much lower per unit. Sure you can pocket it yourself, but in a competitive market, your competitors are going to try to pass the savings onto the consumer to grab market share. Right now consumers and developers are both better off because there's money on the table. The indie market is actually healthier than ever and you're seeing projects like Kickstarter. Maybe overaggressive businesses will drive the weaker ones out of business, but in the end they can't sustain running below the organization's operating costs.
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 15:39 |
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gradenko_2000 posted:HOMM 1 is mostly skippable, as the HOMM design as we know it was still very rough - just 4 different factions and the tactical screen is claustrophobically small.
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 15:49 |
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Since I discovered Steam and GOG I've spent hundreds, and maybe even over £1000 on sale games. Do I play them all, or even a sizeable minority? No. Has the monetary value of games been devalued in my mind? Yes, absolutely. But you're getting £3-4 per title from me that you would never have received in any other scenario. And because there are hundreds of thousands of collectors like me the world over, you're getting that in volume.
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 15:52 |
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Dr Snofeld posted:As an aside, there's a bunch of different versions of King's Bounty, it seems, but are they all worth playing or does one supersede the rest? There are 2 different kinds of King's Bounty games. The one I am saying I like is the original King's Bounty which was a randomized world full of castle you have to conquer in order to get map pieces to find the king's scepter. It uses a system of combat very much like Heroes of Might and Magic, and is considered the spiritual predecessor to HoMM. It is a really fun casual game that you can go for a high score on. The original King's Bounty was remade on the PS2 as Quest For The Dragonbone Staff. The new King's Bounty: The Legend is a game that is very much like the original, but it's very long, not nearly as random in the critter placement, has quests, has a talent tree, all kinds of extra stuff. Of the King's Bounty: The Legend games, Armored Princess with the Crossworlds expansion would be the best.
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 15:53 |
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r1ngwthszzors posted:Nessin, how do you define value anyway? Are you taking into account development costs and opportunity cost project decisions that the companies make? For the games on consoles, you have to take into account publishing costs like manufacturing costs and the order shipments to the retailers like Best Buy and Gamestop. Add that in with the verification process and you get significant costs for breaking into the market. This also limits the kind of discounting that you can get for console games. I'm not making a judgment on value. The problem with frequent sales is people will wait for a sale to buy something a price point when they would have been willing to pay higher. That doesn't apply to everyone, but there are people out there who will buy a game for 50 bucks right now, but choose to wait because in the near future there will likely be a sale. It doesn't even have to be a value decision, it could just be they really want to play the game while it is new, or want to play with other friends who have it. The promise of quick and frequent sales means the opportunity cost (regardless of whether its time or money) is worth the wait. The value side of the house works the same way. If someone is willing to pay $50 for a game and feel it is worth that $50, but then holds off because they know in a month or two they can get that $50 game for only $35, then the game company is out money that people would have paid purely because they've come to expect a discounted price within the time frame they're willing to pay a higher price. It's also interesting that you make the satement: quote:Right now consumers and developers are both better off because there's money on the table That is part of the point, you're assuming that will always be true. There is a breaking point, where the costs to develop a game don't match up with what people are willing to pay for it. Maybe we'll never reach that point, and if we do reach it there could be any number of reasons for it. Regardless, at the end of the day, the problem with frequent sales is that they make people view a product as not worth buying until it's on sale, even if they're willing to pay the non sale price.
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 16:17 |
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So, this Witcher 1 Mac port is never coming to GOG? I picked it up last summer but might actually get around to playing it more if I didn't have to reboot. Guess I should have known that Steam would never hold out on me.
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 16:30 |
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nessin posted:I'm not making a judgment on value. The problem with frequent sales is people will wait for a sale to buy something a price point when they would have been willing to pay higher. That doesn't apply to everyone, but there are people out there who will buy a game for 50 bucks right now, but choose to wait because in the near future there will likely be a sale. To back up your point, I had some interest in Witcher 2 when it came out, but I held off for a sale. I bought it during the Christmas sale because GOG said that it was the cheapest they planned for it to be for some time. If they HADN'T said that, I likely would've waited even longer for a "better" sale, which to date, hasn't happened. If a massively hyped and expected game were to come out, say Half Life 3 (haha, yeah right), and Valve said that it was going to be $60 for at least one year after purchase, that they didn't plan to discount it, there'd be people lining up to get it at launch at full price who would otherwise have waited for a sale. Where if they don't go that route, then some people will wait for a sale, because sales are expected now, and buy it for $20 off 2 months later. And Valve just shorted themselves cash they otherwise would've had.
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 17:13 |
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macnbc posted:If a massively hyped and expected game were to come out, say Half Life 3 (haha, yeah right), and Valve said that it was going to be $60 for at least one year after purchase, that they didn't plan to discount it, there'd be people lining up to get it at launch at full price who would otherwise have waited for a sale. Interesting point but I don't think Valve is the best example to use here. If Portal 2 is any indication, they'll push out HL3 at full price for a couple months and then use their tried and true sales methods to knock that down significantly to reach more customers. Portal 2 was selling for a tiny fraction of what it initially cost and it hadn't even been out for a few months, it's still been less than a year since it came out and the game has already been marked down as low as $7.50. I'm not sure what I'm getting at here, I'm just mad I bought it on launch day for full price (on PS3 even, during that months long PSN outage  ) just to see it drop to 1/10th of its cost soon after. I suppose hat wearing Gog dude has a point in that there's no way I'm paying full price for HL3 because Steam's own sales have conditioned me to not pay full price for anything, even their own AAA titles. Then again it's Valve, and it's Half Life 3. I'm sure millions will jump on that wagon on day one and millions more will hold out for the inevitable sale/Purple Box bundle. I imagine after how well Portal 2 did Gabe knows exactly how to price HL3, when to put it on sale, and for how much, and still manage to maximize profits and keep his customers happy. Portal 2 is $20 now and it's still on the Steam top 20 best sellers list.
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 17:40 |
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duomo posted:So, this Witcher 1 Mac port is never coming to GOG? I picked it up last summer but might actually get around to playing it more if I didn't have to reboot. Guess I should have known that Steam would never hold out on me. Given that CDP went to the effort of porting Witcher 1, and given that DOSBox is platform independent, I'd be very surprised if we reached 2013 without some form of OSX support on GOG.
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 17:42 |
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HOMM3 has the best town music of all the games. Stronghold forever: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmCwz9zf01I
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 18:06 |
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signalnoise posted:In my opinion the best Heroes of Might and Magic game is the original King's Bounty but I'm a purist I guess It really was though. I mean some of the later ones were very good games, but they got far too complicated and you spent too much time managing poo poo and not enough playing. And then some Russians bought the name King's Bounty and released yet another King's Bounty (and Armored Princess/etc) that was better than the current HOMMs. Welmu posted:The "Gifted" trait is very, very good - the skill reduction / level is irrelevant and mostly countered by the extra point in intelligence anyway. "Small Frame" is also another good one with effectively zero downsides. The big downside to small frame is that you pretty much have to take gifted (it's overpowered) and if you take small frame, you aren't taking Bloody Mess. macnbc posted:To back up your point, I had some interest in Witcher 2 when it came out, but I held off for a sale. I bought it during the Christmas sale because GOG said that it was the cheapest they planned for it to be for some time. And on the other hand, I preordered it at full price, like I do with many games. I don't think sales belittle a products value. They continue to add revenue when revenue has died off, and the people that were interested at full price but want it at a sale are just going to wait for inevitable sales anyway. They are certainly going to be timed at points when residual sales are tapering off, valued to still turn a profit, and spaced out from original release far enough so as to not anger people that paid full price. Like every other product out there. You can get the latest fashions, a year later, cheaper.
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 18:37 |
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Aaaaaand Assassin's Creed won't start-up no matter what I do. Fuckin' balls
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 20:19 |
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Dissapointed Owl posted:Aaaaaand Assassin's Creed won't start-up no matter what I do. Don't worry; it's a terrible, uninspired game.
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 20:23 |
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Gray Area posted:Don't worry; it's a terrible, uninspired game. I had it on 360 when it came out. It was great fun. And of the many things to call this game, uninspired seems like an odd choice. Especially when it came out.
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 20:26 |
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glug posted:And on the other hand, I preordered it at full price, like I do with many games. I don't think sales belittle a products value. They continue to add revenue when revenue has died off, and the people that were interested at full price but want it at a sale are just going to wait for inevitable sales anyway. They are certainly going to be timed at points when residual sales are tapering off, valued to still turn a profit, and spaced out from original release far enough so as to not anger people that paid full price. Like every other product out there. That's great in a perfect world where time isn't a factor. Games can be profitable for a long time, but what good does it do us (the consumer) if the game development house closed down 6 months after release because too many people were waiting on a sale? And really: quote:the people that were interested at full price but want it at a sale are just going to wait for inevitable sales anyway That is the whole point of the discussion. So you agree that frequent sales cause people to wait to buy it despite being willing to pay retail price?
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 20:28 |
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I wouldn't say it's bad, just obsolete.
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 20:28 |
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Gray Area posted:Don't worry; it's a terrible, uninspired game. Yeeeeeah. You know what you shouldn't do when someone bought something they wanted but it isn't working? Tell them not to worry because it sucks. Even gamefaqs know better than that. nessin posted:That is the whole point of the discussion. So you agree that frequent sales cause people to wait to buy it despite being willing to pay retail price? Unlikely, unless they are huge hoarders and have a backlog bigger than jesus. Everyone knew Skyrim will end up at 75% at the end of this year, and yet, it sold an absurd number of copies at full price. Earlier adopters work like that. They want it when it's new and fresh.
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 20:28 |
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Saoshyant posted:Unlikely, unless they are huge hoarders and have a backlog bigger than jesus. Everyone knew Skyrim will end up at 75% at the end of this year, and yet, it sold an absurd number of copies at full price. Earlier adopters work like that. They want it when it's new and fresh. Seriously? We can debate the whole industry survival statements I've made till the cows come home, but your post (as with glugs, although indirectly) implies that you agree with the fact that some people will be interested in the game but intentionally wait until a sale to buy it because they are used to sales coming fairly quickly. Effect on people buying games on sale against studios is a whole other issue from the idea that frequent sales encourage people to wait for a sale to buy a game at retail price even if they're interested at the retail price.
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 20:39 |
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Why is it hard to understand? There are earlier adopters and there are those who'd rather wait for a sale because they know it's coming eventually. Both balance out enough that videogames keep selling and be profitable in most cases. I myself buy things I really want at release and wait for a sale on most other things, because they aren't a priority and games ALWAYS go down in price. Heck, even Starcraft 2 infamous for never being on sale had a 50% sale before last Christmas when I then snagged it. I basically don't understand the point you're trying to make.
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 20:45 |
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Saoshyant posted:Yeeeeeah. You know what you shouldn't do when someone bought something they wanted but it isn't working? Tell them not to worry because it sucks. Even gamefaqs know better than that. It's not even true. 
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 20:49 |
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Welmu posted:Charisma is your dump stat, as it mainly affects how many followers you can have at time.
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 20:50 |
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Saoshyant posted:Unlikely, unless they are huge hoarders and have a backlog bigger than jesus. Hello. Well, scratch that, I'm not usually willing to pay retail price because I don't usually care about being in on the latest games, because growing up there was no way to always be in on the very latest games, or at least all of the ones I wanted to play. Recent exceptions include Rayman Origins, Skyward Sword, and Xenoblade Chronicles... okay that's actually undermining what I'm trying to say. I sure didn't pay full MSRP for Rayman or Zelda despite buying them within weeks of release, though. I guess not liking a lot of the big blockbuster games that are popular these days helps. Well, "not liking" is a bit much, because I haven't played them, but not being sufficiently interested due to various reasons means paying 60 bucks is out of the drat question. Paying $15 when it goes on sale somewhere, maybe, if people can't shut up about the game, because I do love to be pleasantly surprised. I'm loving rambling and need to wrap this up. Anyway, I think there is something to what nessin says, mostly because the difference between the price histories of games from Ubisoft and Sega follow a much different arc than those of Nintendo, and I've seen on more than one occasion people commenting about waiting for price drops just knowing that there's blood in the water. Rayman Origins and Vanquish are two recent examples of this- gamers knew that poo poo wouldn't last long at 50 or 60 dollar pricepoints and even though they were willing to pay, many of them waited. (There were probably just as many who (said) they went out and bought these games right away and didn't regret it, though.) It's tough to say whether the attitude is prevalent enough to pose a real problem- this is one of those things where I think everyone is pretty much right in identifying certain things but it's difficult to piece together a whole picture. Ultimately what a game is worth in dollars is what the market will pay by definition, and all sides of the equation will make adjustments accordingly. Stuart Campbell seemingly enjoys being contrarian, or it just happens that he usually is, and he's written a lot about pricing and sales and what he concludes it means for the market. Some good reading (even in the reader comments) if anyone's interested still.
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 21:01 |
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This could be complete bollocks, but I remember hearing at one point that Steam would like to price things much lower but there's some legal reason they can't, so they put things on "sale" a lot instead?
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 21:14 |
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The Kins posted:Sales are bad! So have 50% off of the Might and Magic serieseses for the weekend. And again GOG fails at giving credit where credit's due. 3DO did not make any of these games, New World Computing did! I'm being really anal about this, but it just seems so ignorant blather out nonsense like that. Also, as several people have pointed out, you'll gain the most mileage out of buying Heroes III and Might and Magic I-VI, if you're in doubt on what to buy from the respective series.
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 21:14 |
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Personally, I picked up M&M7. Who knows when I'll get to it but for three bucks I don't really care I guess. I'M PART OF THE PROBLEM
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 21:22 |
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Discount Viscount posted:
Is there a specific article?
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 21:27 |
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r1ngwthszzors posted:Is there a specific article? Sorry, yeah, I realized after posting it that it's been quite a while since he was really hammering things home. He did a series of articles specifically looking at iOS sales and numbers over a short period of time a while ago. Give me a bit to dig those up. There's a recent-ish one about GTA 3 here, and actually it looks like he backlinks to previous examples in each one of these if you want to follow that rabbit hole. Fake Edit: Here's a good starting point. Or this one. Links aplenty to follow from there. Also hooray free Fallout! Maybe I'll be motivated to play it now that I don't have to stick a disc in/be worried about compatibility! Discount Viscount fucked around with this message at Apr 6, 2012 around 21:37 |
| # ? Apr 6, 2012 21:34 |
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Saoshyant posted:Why is it hard to understand? There are earlier adopters and there are those who'd rather wait for a sale because they know it's coming eventually. Both balance out enough that videogames keep selling and be profitable in most cases. I myself buy things I really want at release and wait for a sale on most other things, because they aren't a priority and games ALWAYS go down in price. Heck, even Starcraft 2 infamous for never being on sale had a 50% sale before last Christmas when I then snagged it. If you're completely disconnected with how sales in the retail industry are on a general schedule (Black Friday, Christmas, 4th of July, etc...), and can't see how random sales on a regular basis change the consumer purchasing decision, then it's not really worth going forward.
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| # ? Apr 6, 2012 22:15 |
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nessin posted:That is the whole point of the discussion. So you agree that frequent sales cause people to wait to buy it despite being willing to pay retail price? No, I wasn't clear. People who were interested in the game when it was full price, but would rather wait until it's on sale instead of playing it when it is newly released are just going to do that, period. They are just more concerned about the money. edit: Not because they are used to sales coming quickly, but because they are unwilling to pay full price, and being the first to play it is not a drawing factor for them. Every game will eventually go on sale, period. I am assuming that developers don't drop the price until demand goes down. If they decided to not go with sales, it's not like the theoretical person who was waiting for Skyrim to hit a sale is going to go 'gently caress it, I'll buy it full price 9 months after release, I've waited long enough.' They are just playing another game, and will wait a year or two if need be. glug fucked around with this message at Apr 7, 2012 around 00:55 |
| # ? Apr 7, 2012 00:52 |
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For some reason I remember hearing that Crusaders of Might and Magic was fun with mods or cheats or something, but I couldn't find any info and the regular reviews seem pretty dire. Did I just make that up? Is it worth 3 bucks?
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| # ? Apr 7, 2012 00:58 |
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glug posted:No, I wasn't clear. People who were interested in the game when it was full price, but would rather wait until it's on sale instead of playing it when it is newly released are just going to do that, period. They are just more concerned about the money. You obviously have never done any marketing research. You make a point that sounds like common sense, unfortunately decades upon decades of marketing data shows that peoples purchasing decisions don't fall into neat little baskets like that.
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| # ? Apr 7, 2012 01:08 |
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Honestly, I don't mind the sales, it just means I get games I want for dirt cheap. Maybe I'll never get around to playing them, but at I'll have then when I eventually do. There's nothing wrong with having a backlog.
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| # ? Apr 7, 2012 01:36 |
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Starhawk64 posted:Honestly, I don't mind the sales, it just means I get games I want for dirt cheap. Maybe I'll never get around to playing them, but at I'll have then when I eventually do. There's nothing wrong with having a backlog. Agreed. It's not about buying games so you can play and finish them, it's about having games so you know when they're there when you need it. * Not to be taken entirely seriously
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| # ? Apr 7, 2012 01:44 |
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gradenko_2000 posted:Agreed. It's not about buying games so you can play and finish them, it's about having games so you know when they're there when you need it. This policy has actually worked for me in some cases.
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| # ? Apr 7, 2012 01:45 |
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I bought the MM 1-6 pack a few weeks back and have beaten 3. It holds up pretty well and is fun, even if it's kind of easy to mistakenly do things that cause...ramifications (3/4 through the game I inadvertently caused about 95 years of game-time to pass causing my entire party to age significantly, and render a NPC unusable since he'd die from old age whenever I rested). I haven't started 4-5 yet since I skipped to 6. I'd played it years ago and enjoyed it, and it's still fun. Definitely a different style, and it comes from that transition era of gaming where you've got a clunky-rear end 3D engine and sprite enemies and it's just charmingly janky all over. For $5 the pack is an absurd amount of RPG for the money, even if you skip 1-2 due to them being just TOO archaic. I'll probably take advantage of this sale to get 7, maybe 8.
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| # ? Apr 7, 2012 01:45 |
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Tortolia posted:For $5 the pack is an absurd amount of RPG for the money, even if you skip 1-2 due to them being just TOO archaic. Agreed, in terms of quality gameplay time per dollar I think the M&M six pack is far and away the best buy on GOG. HoMM 3 is up there too.
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| # ? Apr 7, 2012 01:53 |
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| # ? May 20, 2013 22:31 |
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gradenko_2000 posted:Agreed. It's not about buying games so you can play and finish them, it's about having games so you know when they're there when you need it. I wouldn't be surprised if this was part of what drives sales these days. It works on me generally, I pounce on the bundles and good GOG sales, but after shopping like this for almost two years, I can kinda say, "Wait a sec, I'll just get this next go round, it'll go on sale again." I bought HOMM3 maybe a year and a half ago, and here it is, on sale again. Ain't played it but once. I coulda waited. It doesn't drive down the value of games, it's just that the current sales bubble is being driven in part by the idea of scarcity of value, wondering whether this great deal or this great game will come around again. Clearly, a lot of times, it will. It's not killing games, it's just killing the idea that drop-dead sales will give you big numbers. Once gamers feel "secure" that their game will be around when they want it (an overall very good thing), it'll plateau.
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| # ? Apr 7, 2012 02:38 |
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