grognards.txt

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mandrake776: Nov 6, 2006; There's nothing quite like urinating in the open air.

This game here is some pretty ridiculous grognardism. I'm not even certain what they were trying to prove with it, but the amount of :smug:

is overwhelming.

# ? Sep 11, 2009 00:17

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# ? Apr 24, 2024 16:08

NorgLyle: Sep 20, 2002; Do you think I posted to this forum because I value your companionship?

This guy is crazy for all kinds of reasons, but when he talks about gaming...

quote:

To me, when I walk into a geek shop and there are a bunch of 30 year old guys sitting at a table playing D&D, I can't help but feel a vague contempt. It's probably a character flaw; who am I to be judgmental? I roleplay too. But to me, D&D is the roleplaying equivalent of Chutes & Ladders, while my game system and campaign setting are, I don't know, Civilization, or at the very least, Risk. You walk into a public place and see a bunch of obvious adults spinning the little arrow and getting all excited because they hit a ladder, or screeching in rage because they landed on a slide... to me, that's pretty much the same thing as watching a bunch of adults rolling d20s so their 17th level Paladin can do 12 hit points of damage to a beholder, while the thief is picking the lock on a door down the hall, and the cleric is standing by to throw a Cure Light Wounds when necessary. It's just childish. It ain't real roleplaying. And the people I know who get into their late 20s and early 30s and D&D is still the only RPG they want to play? It may be tactless to say it, but anybody that looks at these guys knows there is something badly wrong with them.

# ? Sep 11, 2009 02:26

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

NorgLyle posted:

This guy is crazy for all kinds of reasons, but when he talks about gaming...

oh god I'm grognard.txting myself here:

don't get me wrong, I love me some RPG games, but if you were to take that quote and replace D&D specific stuff with RPGs in general, he kind of has a loving point.

:goonsay:

# ? Sep 11, 2009 02:34

Drox: Aug 9, 2007; by Y Kant Ozma Post

Error 404 posted:

oh god I'm grognard.txting myself here:

don't get me wrong, I love me some RPG games, but if you were to take that quote and replace D&D specific stuff with RPGs in general, he kind of has a loving point.

Why do you hate yourself?

# ? Sep 11, 2009 02:38

NorgLyle: Sep 20, 2002; Do you think I posted to this forum because I value your companionship?

Error 404 posted:

oh god I'm grognard.txting myself here:

don't get me wrong, I love me some RPG games, but if you were to take that quote and replace D&D specific stuff with RPGs in general, he kind of has a loving point.

I don't expect anybody to wade through his walls of words, but just to demonstrate that we're not dealing with a normal guy being picked on for a bad quote, lets go back a little further:

quote:

Where it was basically the HeroClix thing all over again. I posted a few notices saying I was looking for players. A few people responded that my game sounded cool, and what version of D&D was I running? To which I would spit venomously and say "I don't use D&D, D&D isn't a roleplaying system, I use my own system". (No, really. I'd type back something like ::spitting contemptuously:: I don't use DnD, I have my own system. I want to actually ROLEPLAY, not move a cardboard stand up around through a dungeon packed with monsters and treasure and moronic magic items.)

EDIT:

Or a bit more recent:

quote:

Now. I've written 7 novels and a memoir of my time in Basic Training, call it 100 hours for each, with seems fair. That's 800 hours. ...

Huh. So I'm an expert Game Master, an expert writer (of crap no one will pay me for), and a Master Class spouse/parent.

NorgLyle fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Sep 11, 2009

# ? Sep 11, 2009 02:43

Countblanc: Apr 20, 2005; _{Help a hero out!}

lol he thinks Risk is a good game, that's cute. he might as well praise monopoly.

# ? Sep 11, 2009 02:44

Cyrai: Sep 12, 2004

Error 404 posted:

oh god I'm grognard.txting myself here:

don't get me wrong, I love me some RPG games, but if you were to take that quote and replace D&D specific stuff with RPGs in general, he kind of has a loving point.

You'd have a point if you also included things like sports, video games, and most everything people enjoy. What makes this grognardy is that he has no trouble with RPGs, just D&D. Other stuff is fine, but D&D is plebeian

# ? Sep 11, 2009 02:45

NorgLyle: Sep 20, 2002; Do you think I posted to this forum because I value your companionship?

I can't stop with this guy:

quote:

Now, every once in a while I happen across a site where the management has a wonderfully enlightened attitude towards free expression and they've taken a vow to never, ever, under any circumstances ban any user no matter how provocative, controversial or confrontational that user may be.

When I come across these sites, one of two things happens:

Either (a) within a few days, a week at the most, I so infuriate the operator of the site that he or she make a one time only exception to their rules because I am just SUCH a total shitbag and they can't STAND it, or, (b), within a few weeks, a month at the most, I have so utterly alienated everyone on the site that there's little point in me hanging out there any longer.

# ? Sep 11, 2009 02:47

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

NorgLyle posted:

I can't stop with this guy:

someone should buy him an account here, and try to get a mod to give him posting immunity.

P.S. yeah I'm reading through his site and posted too soon. looks like the first quote is the most reasonable(ish) thing there.

# ? Sep 11, 2009 02:53

crime fighting hog: Jun 29, 2006; I only pray, Heaven knows when to lift you out

The 'I'm a master writer' bit is so awesome. I'd love to read his 'novels'

# ? Sep 11, 2009 03:14

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

Traditional Games > TG Discussion: ::spitting contemptuously:: I don't use DnD, I have my own system.

# ? Sep 11, 2009 03:38

Nucleic Acids: Apr 10, 2007

I know this question kind of answers itself, but how can anyone so full of themselves get others to sit down and play a game with them for an extended amount of time?

# ? Sep 11, 2009 03:46

J. P. Beagley: Apr 11, 2008

MY GAME SYSTEM

# ? Sep 11, 2009 03:49

ManMythLegend: Aug 18, 2003; I don't believe in anything, I'm just here for the violence.

semicolonsrock posted:

Jut switching in from 3.5 I am frustrated at not being able to effortlessly whip up a min maxed character, and kind of annoyed that the fighter seems to have turned into a solely melee class (This kind of forced specialization is awful). Longbow wielding human fighters were pretty much my favorite character.

# ? Sep 11, 2009 04:24

Poe: Jul 22, 2007

crime fighting hog posted:

The 'I'm a master writer' bit is so awesome. I'd love to read his 'novels'

What kind of masterpiece does skipping the editorial process allow you to self-publish on Amazon? The Fear Masters, that's what. :smug:

EDIT: Also not to be missed: ZAP FORCE!

quote:

Welcome to Sparta City, circa 1995, where seven super-powered teenagers fight for their lives and their freedom against covert cabals of ancient, evil immortals who yearn to outfit them all with high tech alien mind control slave collars – or low tech earthly bodybags, whichever works.

Yes, here in Sparta City, it’s the neurotically networked 90s as they never really were, a time and a place when centuries old evildoers scheme, conspire, machinate and manipulate, while teenage superheroes leap, flip in midair, hurl lightning bolts, cast illusions, punch, kick, fly at supersonic speeds, kick rear end, take names, and generally blow stuff up real good.

Seven stalwart students at Sparta University, inadvertently given unique and insane ultrapowers by an exotic on-campus psychology experiment gone horribly awry, and now avidly sought after as super-powered slaves by every other secret super society on the planet –

GALLANT, team leader, who at the age of 19 is both selfless and cynical, and whose super-agility and inhumanly unerring aim make him an all but unbeatable hand to hand combatant and absolutely deadly with anything he can throw, especially the hard energy discs and explosive energy globes his alien tech gauntlets generate;

TESLA GIRL, an 18 year old French Canadian hottie who can turn heads with her high voltage beauty and whose electrically supercharged metabolism can generate lightning bolts powerful enough to melt a combat tank into molten slag;

STRAIGHTLACE, the 18 year old diminutive blonde babe with the attitude of a pit bull who can fly faster than a speeding Sidewinder and smash through solid concrete without taking a scratch;

RAMPART, 19 year old African-American star athlete and honor student who can leap tall buildings in a single bound while carrying a Cadillac Seville over his shoulder;

LOBE-O, wheelchair bound 16 year old supergenius with an advanced college placement whose telepathic powers can trace a fleeting thoughtwave through a million muddled mundane minds;

GLAMOUR, a husky Innuit plain Jane psych major whose psychically projected mental illusions seem real enough to leave lipstick marks on a frat boy’s cheek, or boot shaped bruises on a bad guy’s rear end;

WARPER, the 19 year old star college quarterback who can open teleportals with his mind, when he’s not charming phone numbers out of any nearby cuties with his All American good looks;

MAINFRAME, the ageless, bodiless former maintenance man who now only exists as a self aware electronic impulse haunting any machine or set of circuitry he cares to inhabit at any given time;

Together they are ZAP FORCE, reluctant heroes fighting to protect an innocent and ignorant global populace, or at least, their own drat selves, from enslavement or death at the hands of the ancient evil immortals who secretly run the world:

BARON SAMEDI, centuries old blustering boss-man of the voodoo-themed Clan Loa, whose sheer raw strength can crumble solid concrete and whose brutal will to dominate will not be denied by uppity interfering newcomers like those no good Zap Force punks;

THE BARONESS, Baron Samedi’s crafty, malevolent and utterly ageless wife and co-Monarch, whose vast mental prowess can (and does) enslave entire populations, including, of course, her own entirely unsuspecting husband;

THE OLD ONE, an inhumanly brilliant schemer born before written history began, who remembers the angels, gods and devils of ancient Sumeria and Babylonia as his contemporaries, peers, and more often than not, siblings, and whose own Royal Clan, the Eldest, is the most respected, hated, and feared of any in existence on Earth today.

STEPHEN SANTERIOS of Clan Loa, psychic assassin and master of the incomprehensibly advanced technology left behind on Earth by the long gone alien H’nnr

Put it all together and what do you got? D.A. Madigan's ZAP FORCE!!

Poe fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Sep 11, 2009

# ? Sep 11, 2009 04:48

RagnarokAngel: Oct 5, 2006; Black Magic Extraordinaire

ManMythLegend posted:

semicolonsrock posted:
Jut switching in from 3.5 I am frustrated at not being able to effortlessly whip up a min maxed character, and kind of annoyed that the fighter seems to have turned into a solely melee class (This kind of forced specialization is awful). Longbow wielding human fighters were pretty much my favorite character.

Why don't people ever get this is meta gaming to the extreme? To the world in-game you are not a "Bow using fighter" you're "a guy who uses a bow". A ranger and fighter using a bow are, in-universe, no different in profession.

# ? Sep 11, 2009 05:00

Countblanc: Apr 20, 2005; _{Help a hero out!}

Poe posted:

What kind of masterpiece does skipping the editorial process allow you to self-publish on Amazon? The Fear Masters, that's what.

EDIT: Also not to be missed: ZAP FORCE!

lol the black guy jumps high and is strong

# ? Sep 11, 2009 05:06

ManMythLegend: Aug 18, 2003; I don't believe in anything, I'm just here for the violence.

RagnarokAngel posted:

Why don't people ever get this is meta gaming to the extreme? To the world in-game you are not a "Bow using fighter" you're "a guy who uses a bow". A ranger and fighter using a bow are, in-universe, no different in profession.

If people understood that then this thread would not nearly be so big.

# ? Sep 11, 2009 05:06

Nerdlord Actual: Apr 14, 2007; Awaken to your true self with Wisconsin Potatoes; Grimey Drawer

RagnarokAngel posted:

Why don't people ever get this is meta gaming to the extreme? To the world in-game you are not a "Bow using fighter" you're "a guy who uses a bow". A ranger and fighter using a bow are, in-universe, no different in profession.

look at you so dumb, of course there's a difference! They're named two different things in the book. now stop trying to ruin my IMMERSION and let me roll a ranged fighter :argh:

# ? Sep 11, 2009 05:45

Drox: Aug 9, 2007; by Y Kant Ozma Post

Phuzzy posted:

look at you so dumb, of course there's a difference! They're named two different things in the book. now stop trying to ruin my IMMERSION and let me roll a ranged fighter

maybe we should bump up the obviousness a notch and go from (melee) fighter and ranger to MELEEr and RANGEr

# ? Sep 11, 2009 05:49

Fidel Cuckstro: Jul 2, 2007

Phuzzy posted:

look at you so dumb, of course there's a difference! They're named two different things in the book. now stop trying to ruin my IMMERSION and let me roll a ranged fighter

You know, I do think there is something legit to the complaint, if tangential. With PHB2, the developers have shown a willingness to build melee classes that key off a single non-strength attribute (avengers, virtuous bards, beast-form druids, etc)...which then allows those classes to use their magical ranged/area/close attacks off the same bonus. However, the martial classes (and, to be fair, barbarians and wardens also fall in here) are stuck with ranged weapon proficiencies that they can't really take advantage of because they need to dedicate their attributes to strength.

Basically- if they're willing to let Prescient Bards use charisma as a stat for their ranged weapon attacks, I don't see why they can't let strength do the same thing.

Maybe this is better off here than in the 4e thread, but I think it's an issue that I'm starting to notice more and more.

edit- although I think wardens and barbarians don't get the ranged proficiencies in their class package, so...

# ? Sep 11, 2009 06:14

Cyrai: Sep 12, 2004

Poe posted:

What kind of masterpiece does skipping the editorial process allow you to self-publish on Amazon? The Fear Masters, that's what.

EDIT: Also not to be missed: ZAP FORCE!

Why would you want super-powered slaves? I'm sure people like Flash and the Green Lantern would just quietly follow orders and never, ever try to escape

EDIT: downloaded samples to my Kindle

# ? Sep 11, 2009 06:41

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

NorgLyle posted:

This guy is crazy for all kinds of reasons, but when he talks about gaming...

That whole blog is a peach - pure concentrated essence of grognard. He brags about the Kindle sales of his terrible, terrible books and repeatedly mentions how upset he is at the lack of comments on his blog. He also has the Angry Fanboy thing down perfectly (gently caress you, Neil Gaiman! gently caress you, Brian Michael Bendis! gently caress you, George R. R. Martin! gently caress you, John Rogers!) Dude's in his 40s and just starting training for a Call Center position. Not bad for a Master Class spouse/parent!

# ? Sep 11, 2009 07:06

Pieces of Peace: Jul 8, 2006; Hazardous in small doses.

DeclaredYuppie posted:

You know, I do think there is something legit to the complaint, if tangential. With PHB2, the developers have shown a willingness to build melee classes that key off a single non-strength attribute (avengers, virtuous bards, beast-form druids, etc)...which then allows those classes to use their magical ranged/area/close attacks off the same bonus. However, the martial classes (and, to be fair, barbarians and wardens also fall in here) are stuck with ranged weapon proficiencies that they can't really take advantage of because they need to dedicate their attributes to strength.

Basically- if they're willing to let Prescient Bards use charisma as a stat for their ranged weapon attacks, I don't see why they can't let strength do the same thing.

Maybe this is better off here than in the 4e thread, but I think it's an issue that I'm starting to notice more and more.

edit- although I think wardens and barbarians don't get the ranged proficiencies in their class package, so...

That's what they added Heavy Thrown weapons for, isn't it? It makes more sense for the dedicated melee fighters to use stuff like javelins instead of whipping out a bow (that's right, it's got more realism, grognards :smug:

). Hell, Heavy Thrown weapons are fantastic for fighters, like Drox pointed out in the 4e thread where the delightfully poorly-written complaint came from.

# ? Sep 11, 2009 07:52

The General: Mar 4, 2007

ManMythLegend posted:

If people understood that then this thread would not nearly be so big.

If you people realized how shallow and lovely 4.fail is, there wouldn't be a need for this thread :colbert:

You idiots need to grow up and use MY SYSYEM! loving manchildren itt

# ? Sep 11, 2009 08:06

Countblanc: Apr 20, 2005; _{Help a hero out!}

i don't use any system. i embody the concept of roleplay; by merely existing i have played and am currently playing every fantasy troupe ever devised

# ? Sep 11, 2009 08:07

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

Countblanc posted:

i don't use any system. i embody the concept of roleplay; by merely existing i have played and am currently playing every fantasy troupe ever devised

I'm a Wizard irl.

# ? Sep 11, 2009 08:56

The General: Mar 4, 2007

Countblanc posted:

i don't use any system. i embody the concept of roleplay; by merely existing i have played and am currently playing every fantasy troupe ever devised

Freeform is lower than LARP. Get out.

# ? Sep 11, 2009 09:19

Etherwind: Apr 22, 2008; Can't post for 80 days!; Soiled Meat

Error 404 posted:

I'm a Wizard irl.

Psions �ber alles.

# ? Sep 11, 2009 11:11

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

Etherwind posted:

Psyker �ber alles.

fixed.
now roll for warp

# ? Sep 11, 2009 11:17

Etherwind: Apr 22, 2008; Can't post for 80 days!; Soiled Meat

quote:

<Etherwind> !r d10#3
<foxxbot> Etherwind, 9 9 9

# ? Sep 11, 2009 11:21

Fidel Cuckstro: Jul 2, 2007

Pieces of Peace posted:

That's what they added Heavy Thrown weapons for, isn't it? It makes more sense for the dedicated melee fighters to use stuff like javelins instead of whipping out a bow (that's right, it's got more realism, grognards ). Hell, Heavy Thrown weapons are fantastic for fighters, like Drox pointed out in the 4e thread where the delightfully poorly-written complaint came from.

Well, it looks more like they added the heavy thrown property because they couldn't convince themselves that basic ranged attacks could function off anything other than dexterity unless they made a particular exception...just as they couldn't convince themselves at first not to force melee basic attacks to key off strength. However in the second case they decided that wasn't necessary and added in the melee training feats.

And I really don't know why you think javelins make more sense than a bow? Bows have greater range, do more damage, and (at least until you get a magical thrown weapon...which honestly isn't one of the first things a warrior is going to want) you don't lose your ranged attack after you throw your weapon away. And if you honestly want to pretend that's somehow more realistic, it'd probably be even more realistic for the fighters/warlords to carry around daggers or shurikens to throw since they're small and wouldn't be a nuisance to carry around...but those are light thrown.

I mean at least for the warlord, they went out of their way to add some ranged powers for them in Martial Power- but they gave all of them a "you must use a heavy thrown weapon" requirement. All fine and good I guess, but then I don't know why they bothered giving them training in simple ranged weapons they'd never want to use. Looking at the prescient bard, though, they don't have any sort of limitation on the weapon type. They can key their attacks off charisma regardless of whether it's a heavy thrown, light thrown, or ranged weapon. They're in trouble too if they have to use a basic ranged as well, but that seems the exception that proves the rule for them.

And I don't even know why "it makes sense" is a good argument here. With a couple of feats you can give your caster melee training, a superior weapon, and have them doing respectable basic attacks. It may be a bad idea, but you can do it. I can't see any reason why you shouldn't let fighters/warlords/TWF rangers get decent "bow attacks" aside from some "durr little quick guys use a bow not big slow guys" reasoning that they no longer seem to really subscribe to.

# ? Sep 11, 2009 13:00

Fidel Cuckstro: Jul 2, 2007

DeclaredYuppie posted:

Well, it looks more like they added the heavy thrown property because they couldn't convince themselves that basic ranged attacks could function off anything other than dexterity unless they made a particular exception...just as they couldn't convince themselves at first not to force melee basic attacks to key off strength. However in the second case they decided that wasn't necessary and added in the melee training feats.

And I really don't know why you think javelins make more sense than a bow? Bows have greater range, do more damage, and (at least until you get a magical thrown weapon...which honestly isn't one of the first things a warrior is going to want) you don't lose your ranged attack after you throw your weapon away. And if you honestly want to pretend that's somehow more realistic, it'd probably be even more realistic for the fighters/warlords to carry around daggers or shurikens to throw since they're small and wouldn't be a nuisance to carry around...but those are light thrown.

I mean at least for the warlord, they went out of their way to add some ranged powers for them in Martial Power- but they gave all of them a "you must use a heavy thrown weapon" requirement. All fine and good I guess, but then I don't know why they bothered giving them training in simple ranged weapons they'd never want to use. Looking at the prescient bard, though, they don't have any sort of limitation on the weapon type. They can key their attacks off charisma regardless of whether it's a heavy thrown, light thrown, or ranged weapon. They're in trouble too if they have to use a basic ranged as well, but that seems the exception that proves the rule for them.

And I don't even know why "it makes sense" is a good argument here. With a couple of feats you can give your caster melee training, a superior weapon, and have them doing respectable basic attacks. It may be a bad idea, but you can do it. I can't see any reason why you shouldn't let fighters/warlords/TWF rangers get decent "bow attacks" aside from some "durr little quick guys use a bow not big slow guys" reasoning that they no longer seem to really subscribe to.

# ? Sep 11, 2009 13:00

mandrake776: Nov 6, 2006; There's nothing quite like urinating in the open air.

Error 404 posted:

I'm a Wizard irl.

I ropeplay as him.

# ? Sep 11, 2009 13:25

Drox: Aug 9, 2007; by Y Kant Ozma Post

Pieces of Peace posted:

That's what they added Heavy Thrown weapons for, isn't it? It makes more sense for the dedicated melee fighters to use stuff like javelins instead of whipping out a bow (that's right, it's got more realism, grognards ). Hell, Heavy Thrown weapons are fantastic for fighters, like Drox pointed out in the 4e thread where the delightfully poorly-written complaint came from.

If you want a ranged fighter, pick up Deft Hurler Style, Quick Draw, and a ranger multiclass. I want to play this character now.

# ? Sep 11, 2009 16:03

HKR: Jan 13, 2006; there is no universe where duke nukem would not be a trans ally

You phlebs still you dice in your role playing adventures? Might as well pull out a laptop and play WoW together. Real role players use dice-less systems :smug:

# ? Sep 11, 2009 17:15

crime fighting hog: Jun 29, 2006; I only pray, Heaven knows when to lift you out

HKR posted:

You phlebs still you dice in your role playing adventures? Might as well pull out a laptop and play WoW together. Real role players use dice-less systems

You guys actually 'role play'? I'm so good at roleplaying, I don't even exist

# ? Sep 11, 2009 17:18