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Dizzybone
Nov 24, 2007



Tortolia posted:

So I just completed World 5, and either I made some sort of horrible mistake in the process or the game just wants me to think that I did.

Sure, World 5 is a poisonous cesspool and full of death and decay, but then I get to Astraea. She seems to want nothing more than to create a sanctuary in the middle of the chaos and she's got a knight perfectly willing to protect her as she does so. She's essentially helpless once I manage to get Vinland out of the way, she falls quickly to three Moving Soul Arrow volleys, and I get the Pureblood Soul. Now there's this really ominous organ song playing in the Nexus. Moreover, Astraea's soul can either get me another cloud spell from Freke, or a healing spell from Yuria (and her witchcraft is supposed to be the dark arts).

For all the NPC chatter about how the Demons Souls are a source of evil power and I need to be careful (admittedly from the priests, those pansies), this is the first time the game's actually got me wondering just how heroic I'm being.


Good stuff.

What's even more of a downer is that you didn't even have to attack her. Once you've killed her bodyguard, you can walk up and speak to her, and she says a few things to make you feel like poo poo and then kills herself. That's where I am in the game now

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Policenaut
Jul 11, 2008



Dizzybone posted:

What's even more of a downer is that you didn't even have to attack her. Once you've killed her bodyguard, you can walk up and speak to her, and she says a few things to make you feel like poo poo and then kills herself. That's where I am in the game now

Yeah, I have to admit that fight was pretty much the only one that really made me stop and think.

I mean, Maiden Astraea and Garl Vinland are both just chilling out in the Valley of Defilement with all those plague fetus things in the river of blood surrounded by worshippers (who are murdered if they fall in the river) and are pretty happy. Then you just bust in and get told off for plundering and when you finally win, she basically reminded you of what a dick you are. Until that point in the game, every single enemy boss you fought was just either a gigantic untalking monster or an insane person. Maiden Astraea and Garl Vinland are perfectly normal "demons" who apparently are doing nothing wrong that you gently caress up solely for their Souls

Oh, and if you're a sword user than don't bother with those spells. Get yourself the Blueblood Sword stat! The most powerful straight sword in the game, innate hide ability and the only weapon to get an attack boost from luck. Plus it looks bitchin' with the Dark Silver Armor set

Squint
Jul 14, 2007

Extremely Not Bad

More plot beardiness ahoy!

In the opening cinematic a short list of heroes who went into the fog before the player character is given, and one of the entries is "the maiden Astraea and her knight, Garl Vinland." The central theme of the Valley of Defilement is impurity, as the valley is supposedly the repository for all the world's filth and decay.

Going off of the spell and miracle descriptions for those available with Astraea's soul, she represented purity. It can be assumed that she and Garl originally entered the valley in an attempt to purify it, but succumbed to the valley's demonic presence and instead became its new custodians (Freke mentions how humans can become demons if you talk to him enough).

Being demons the least removed from their humanity, however, they still retain some ability to appeal to human nature through persuasion and seeding doubt, though their chamber has a pile of corpses and probably the single most deadly environment in the game, the hellbaby-infested pond of plague juice, which should be enough to convince you that they're not the good people they once were.


This next part you probably shouldn't read until you've beaten the game once.

At the end, it's revealed that killing all of those demons earns you an audience with the Old One, and the maiden in black refers to you as a "new demon" while the Old One approaches. It is likely that Astraea and Garl Vinland were in a similar situation earlier on, perhaps after killing whatever demon originally resided in 5-3.

The Old One, being your usual omniscient, immortal force, is well aware of your intentions as you enter, but is confident enough in the intoxicating lure of more souls to allow you to choose for yourself. Astraea and Garl chose demonhood.

Squint fucked around with this message at Mar 31, 2009 around 11:46

Tortolia
Dec 29, 2005

Hindustan Electronics Employee of the Month, July 2008


Policenaut posted:

Oh, and if you're a sword user than don't bother with those spells. Get yourself the Blueblood Sword stat! The most powerful straight sword in the game, innate hide ability and the only weapon to get an attack boost from luck. Plus it looks bitchin' with the Dark Silver Armor set

I got Freke's spell, which means that he's taught me everything he can. Now to kill him for Mephistopheles!

Didn't realize the Blueblood Sword had such good stats, but I'd have to grind out 4 more strength and 6 more dex to wield it, so that can wait for another playthrough anyway.

I really did like world 5 in general, even if the lack of being able to dodge caused some close calls when the giant goblins came running. Great atmosphere, and with the Adjudicator +5 and a Regen ring I just didn't even bother curing the swamp poison, I outhealed it regardless.

Vallens
Jan 27, 2004

Get back in line you drunken fool!

Just a quick tip on PVP.

If you drop an item, Black Phantoms can see it and pick it up. I started emptying my stash of slave shields by dropping them where a phantom would see it. They would run up to grab it while I run in behind them and backstab their rear end. Its a hell of a sneaky thing to do, and I'm sure my victims curse themselves for falling for such a silly trap.

Mattjpwns
Dec 14, 2006

In joyful strains then let us sing
ADVANCE AUSTRALIA FUCKED


My copy of this arrived today - I'm loving it so far. Been looking for a current generation Monster Hunter style game, and this fits the bill perfectly. I'd probably never have heard of this if not for the previous post about it. Thanks goons!

N'thing the "thread title is awesome" love, too.

Sunday Punch
Mar 4, 2009

There you are in your home, and the soldiers smash down the door and tell you you're in the middle of World War III. Something's gone wrong with time.


I'm trying to get the items in front of the two dragons in 1-1. Now I assume that I need to lure the red dragon away to the bridge, otherwise he just torches the roost area with fire. Problem is, he doesn't seem to be flying away from his perch when I run around on the bridge. He was happy to toast the bridge the first run through this level, but not now that I'm going back to pick up things I missed the first time. Any ideas on how to lure him away/get those items?

Tortolia
Dec 29, 2005

Hindustan Electronics Employee of the Month, July 2008


Sunday Punch posted:

I'm trying to get the items in front of the two dragons in 1-1. Now I assume that I need to lure the red dragon away to the bridge, otherwise he just torches the roost area with fire. Problem is, he doesn't seem to be flying away from his perch when I run around on the bridge. He was happy to toast the bridge the first run through this level, but not now that I'm going back to pick up things I missed the first time. Any ideas on how to lure him away/get those items?

Kill it in 1-2 with a bunch of magic or arrows and it'll be gone for good.

The Raglay
Apr 11, 2007



So I may be shooting in the dark here, but I thought I'd ask regardless. I'm waiting until I get the sword of searching before I try for Pure Darkmoonstone again, but I do remember the last time I looked at the upgrade window for my +4 katana that the magic parameter would change from "A" at +4 to... "A" at +5. The "A" was highlighted in blue, meaning it was an actual increase, but the letter stayed the same. Is this simply a display bug and it will actually upgrade to "S", or are there actually tiers within each letter?

I ask because I'm thinking of tracking down the Phosphorescent Pole and pumping it full of colorless souls to get the magic parameter to "S". If the sword does actually upgrade to an "S" parameter, then it becomes more a matter of weapon attack speed. If the sword stays at "A", I think the pole would be more powerful for a magic user.

Hamburger Test
Jul 2, 2007


The Raglay posted:

So I may be shooting in the dark here, but I thought I'd ask regardless. I'm waiting until I get the sword of searching before I try for Pure Darkmoonstone again, but I do remember the last time I looked at the upgrade window for my +4 katana that the magic parameter would change from "A" at +4 to... "A" at +5. The "A" was highlighted in blue, meaning it was an actual increase, but the letter stayed the same. Is this simply a display bug and it will actually upgrade to "S", or are there actually tiers within each letter?

I ask because I'm thinking of tracking down the Phosphorescent Pole and pumping it full of colorless souls to get the magic parameter to "S". If the sword does actually upgrade to an "S" parameter, then it becomes more a matter of weapon attack speed. If the sword stays at "A", I think the pole would be more powerful for a magic user.
I'm fairly sure there are several levels within each grade. You should be able to see the attack bonus change when you're looking at the upgrade window if it's a higher level of A. (Press square while talking to Ed)

I have that exact weapon on my noble and went and got the phosphorecent pole seeing that it would upgrade all the way to S; meanwhile hoping the attack speed would be better than other pole arms, it's not. All in all I find the pole arm inferior in most aspects. Also keep in mind the base magic and physical damage on your upgraded uchigatana is actually a lot higher than that on the pole.

The Raglay
Apr 11, 2007



Hamburger Test posted:

I'm fairly sure there are several levels within each grade. You should be able to see the attack bonus change when you're looking at the upgrade window if it's a higher level of A. (Press square while talking to Ed)

I have that exact weapon on my noble and went and got the phosphorecent pole seeing that it would upgrade all the way to S; meanwhile hoping the attack speed would be better than other pole arms, it's not. All in all I find the pole arm inferior in most aspects. Also keep in mind the base magic and physical damage on your upgraded uchigatana is actually a lot higher than that on the pole.

I can see the change in grade. The letter is blue, indicating an upgrade, though it says it is upgrading from "A" to "A". Yes, the magic bonus does increase, but I was confused that it wasn't jumping to "S". I'm going on memory, but I believe the pole has higher base damage than the Uchigatana would at +5. I could be wrong about that. Still, if the speed is that bad then I won't bother.

Hamburger Test
Jul 2, 2007


The Raglay posted:

I can see the change in grade. The letter is blue, indicating an upgrade, though it says it is upgrading from "A" to "A". Yes, the magic bonus does increase, but I was confused that it wasn't jumping to "S". I'm going on memory, but I believe the pole has higher base damage than the Uchigatana would at +5. I could be wrong about that. Still, if the speed is that bad then I won't bother.
Get a Mirdan Hammer or Halberd and try it out yourself, it's exactly the same animation and speed. I don't know about Sais but I assume it's the same as well. The only positive is the range/speed they have when being used two handed but you're still losing the fast wide swing of the katana. I simply can't see my self dropping my trusty shield to use a pole arm properly in the majority of situations.

Unone
Nov 28, 2005


Just got this game today. Holy poo poo this is hard.

I get the feeling I really shouldn't be going in swords swinging. I really need to adapt my tactics.

Time for a reread of the thread I guess.

Residentearth
Jun 19, 2002

dear die hard, you rock. ps do you know mad max?

Unone posted:

Just got this game today. Holy poo poo this is hard.

I get the feeling I really shouldn't be going in swords swinging. I really need to adapt my tactics.

Time for a reread of the thread I guess.

Best tactic is to block and wait for an opening. On your first run through the levels: take it SLOW. Watch your step and click on the blood spots to see how people are dying.

hoodrow trillson
Jul 15, 2001



Sunday Punch posted:

I'm trying to get the items in front of the two dragons in 1-1. Now I assume that I need to lure the red dragon away to the bridge, otherwise he just torches the roost area with fire. Problem is, he doesn't seem to be flying away from his perch when I run around on the bridge. He was happy to toast the bridge the first run through this level, but not now that I'm going back to pick up things I missed the first time. Any ideas on how to lure him away/get those items?

I can vouch for the fact that it's possible to just run up there and take them, if you're fast and lucky. I just got the game and started it yesterday, so this is from a complete beginner: I just ran through and took them.

Shalinor
Jun 10, 2002

Can I buy you a rootbeer?


Unone posted:

Just got this game today. Holy poo poo this is hard.

I get the feeling I really shouldn't be going in swords swinging. I really need to adapt my tactics.

Time for a reread of the thread I guess.
Don't worry about dying. No, really - try not to worry about it. The number of souls you get in the first level is poo poo anyways, you can't spend them until you beat the boss (which you may well die multiple times on), and the deaths teach you a great deal. Die often, experiment, and figure out what works and what doesn't. Until you get decent at the game (which means learning to time your blocks and dodges, amongst other things), you will die too often to collect a significant number of souls anyways.

EDIT: for anyone that remembers back pre-release, can you please tell us how the hell that one guy managed to get through the game despite never upgrading / dying constantly / sucking miserably? I can't imagine how someone like that would ever beat this game, it seems like he'd just die over and over again once he hit 3-1, 3-2, 4-1, etc.

Shalinor fucked around with this message at Mar 31, 2009 around 20:23

JGTheSpy
Jul 31, 2002
Excuse me, but if I could have a moment of your time, I'd like to explain why you're not actually enjoying that game that you're enjoying. You see, I am in fact an expert. At games. I know, it's impressive.

JGTheSpy posted:

I just sent off an email to Play-Asia asking to cancel my order. They cancelled it and told me that they still don't know when they're getting a new shipment. It looks like NCSX is getting shipments every other day so I placed a new order with them. It's nice of them to post status updates.

NCSX just shipped my order and it looks like they still have plenty of copies. I'd suggest anyone with a pending Play-Asia order do this if they're getting impatient.

TheQat
Oct 19, 2003



Just ordered this from NCSX (at 1615 EST--we'll see if they really do ship same day if it's before 1700). I loved Etrian Odyssey II for the DS and generally love other stupid-difficult games, so I'm thinking I'll love this.

Tzar
Jun 9, 2005

Dammit DeeDee, you've failed me for the last time!


hoodrow trillson posted:

I can vouch for the fact that it's possible to just run up there and take them, if you're fast and lucky. I just got the game and started it yesterday, so this is from a complete beginner: I just ran through and took them.

Same here, just make sure you're not carrying any souls and wear the silliest combination of gear to maximize your fire resistance and you might even survive one missed dodge (phys def doesn't matter so strip of everything you can, doing it while over half encumbrance is stupid.) The blue dragon's tail will probably kill you once unless you're REALLY lucky, but as long as you get the furthest away item first it shouldn't be a big deal.

hoodrow trillson
Jul 15, 2001



Tzar posted:

Same here, just make sure you're not carrying any souls and wear the silliest combination of gear to maximize your fire resistance and you might even survive one missed dodge (phys def doesn't matter so strip of everything you can, doing it while over half encumbrance is stupid.) The blue dragon's tail will probably kill you once unless you're REALLY lucky, but as long as you get the furthest away item first it shouldn't be a big deal.

I wasn't even wearing any fire stuff, I just kinda blazed through it doing some rolls. I should add that I was playing a thief and didn't have much gear, since it was my first time through, so I was pretty light.

Policenaut
Jul 11, 2008



Shalinor posted:

EDIT: for anyone that remembers back pre-release, can you please tell us how the hell that one guy managed to get through the game despite never upgrading / dying constantly / sucking miserably? I can't imagine how someone like that would ever beat this game, it seems like he'd just die over and over again once he hit 3-1, 3-2, 4-1, etc.

esegk? He constantly was using up Crescent Moon herbs, like, so much that you could almost call it a manual HP Regeneration. He brunt forced it, just like how he brunt forced Yakuza 3 and White Knight Chronicles (the Yakuza 3 stream was loving hilarious. He didn't know how to use any Heat moves)

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008


Is that his level of skill or did he make the video to show that it was possible to button mash your way to victory?

The Raglay
Apr 11, 2007



Jimbot posted:

Is that his level of skill or did he make the video to show that it was possible to button mash your way to victory?

He was just plain awful.

Whorehey
Jun 2, 2006
You saw it here first folks...

So in my farming for souls in 4-2 from the reaper there and by checking my pure white tendency there for the Makoto, I noticed that the black phantom Urbain respawns, just like a regular enemy. The cool part is that every time I kill him, he drops 3 chunks of Dark Moonstone and a Stone of Ephemeral Eye. Now I'm just stocking up before NG+

Mister E
Oct 2, 2006

Mr. Forums Poster, Welcome Back. We Missed You.

JGTheSpy posted:

NCSX just shipped my order and it looks like they still have plenty of copies. I'd suggest anyone with a pending Play-Asia order do this if they're getting impatient.

Yeah, I just placed my order with NCSX earlier today and they've already processed it and it's shipping out. So if you've got an order you aren't getting anywhere with somewhere else, I suggest canceling it and going with them.

Now I'll get to join in the fun of having my rear end handed to me from anything and everything over and over again!

hoodrow trillson
Jul 15, 2001



I did my order the NCSX. I had some UPS woes (not NCSX's fault) and their customer service was pretty much instant over email, even though it was like 7PM.

McCoy Pauley
Mar 2, 2006
Gonna eat so many goddamn crumpets.

Whorehey posted:

So in my farming for souls in 4-2 from the reaper there and by checking my pure white tendency there for the Makoto, I noticed that the black phantom Urbain respawns, just like a regular enemy. The cool part is that every time I kill him, he drops 3 chunks of Dark Moonstone and a Stone of Ephemeral Eye. Now I'm just stocking up before NG+

Wait -- say what now? I sure could use some chunks of Dark Moonstone like that. What exactly are you doing? Where is this Black Phantom Urbain on 4-2? Are you at 100% WT?

EDIT: Are you just going to that hole where you rescue St. Urbain and fighting the phantom there?

McCoy Pauley fucked around with this message at Mar 31, 2009 around 21:25

Cowboybot
Sep 27, 2007
On a steel horse I ride

anyone want to play tonight? I really need some help in New Game+ as alot of things strike down with a sickness. Lost shittons of souls so far.

Who Gotch Ya
Jun 27, 2003

streetdoctors.com
Yes, we are hybrid rappers.


What does it mean when you die and it says ! LOST BLOOD !?

Also, I killed the dude who was hanging out in the nexus by the man and woman sitting on the things. The guy who was like "oh woe is me". Should I have not killed him?

Zarick
Dec 28, 2004



Sadly enough, the easiest time to get the loot under the dragons is the first time through the level (aside from pure WT or after beating both dragons requiring a trip to 1-4). Lure the dragon to the bridge, get him to start his breathing. Then haul rear end back to the other side, and you should be able to pick up everything except the item closest to the blue dragon with minimal danger. However, that last item is a Ring of Great Strength, an amazing item if you want to play a heavily-armored guy, because wearing plate and still being able to roll is a very, very useful thing. It's possible to bait the blue dragon's attack. Get into his range, he'll raise his tail. Back off, let him slam it down, and then rush in, grab the ring, and slide off the side down onto the lower ledge. It's worth noting that you don't get hit by fire on the lower ledge so it's an excellent way to escape the red dragon in a hurry.

I got the Purple Flame Shield, the Ring of Flame Resistance, and the Ring of Great Strength from up there on my first runthrough of 1-1 as a barbarian, and all of them were extremely useful. If you're a lightly armored guy, it might not be worth it since two of those items are really more useful to someone who has more equip weight to sling around.

Something else I'm not sure about... something indicated that there's four levels of encumbrance... 1/4 of your equip weight or less (fastest), 1/2 your equip weight or less (good rolling), up to your max equip weight (slow, awkward rolling) and over your max equip weight (no rolling or running). The thing is, I can't tell the difference between the fastest two. Is there one? Has anyone else noticed a significant difference between 1/4 and 1/2?

cortXbomb posted:

What does it mean when you die and it says ! LOST BLOOD !?

Also, I killed the dude who was hanging out in the nexus by the man and woman sitting on the things. The guy who was like "oh woe is me". Should I have not killed him?

LOST BLOOD means you're bleeding from a weapon that causes you to bleed, probably rolling skeletons in 4-1, right? For some reason on NPC enemies it only seems to happen when you die, but on players it can happen frequently depending on their weapon. You probably shouldn't kill anyone in the Nexus, but if it's the "oh, Saint Urbain, I love you so much" guy, then I haven't noticed him having any actual effect.

Who Gotch Ya
Jun 27, 2003

streetdoctors.com
Yes, we are hybrid rappers.


Zarick posted:


LOST BLOOD means you're bleeding from a weapon that causes you to bleed, probably rolling skeletons in 4-1, right? For some reason on NPC enemies it only seems to happen when you die, but on players it can happen frequently depending on their weapon. You probably shouldn't kill anyone in the Nexus, but if it's the "oh, Saint Urbain, I love you so much" guy, then I haven't noticed him having any actual effect.

Yeah it was them. Does it have a negative effect on my character other than the usual dying?

Zarick
Dec 28, 2004



cortXbomb posted:

Yeah it was them. Does it have a negative effect on my character other than the usual dying?

Nope. If you get it when you're alive, you lose HP fairly steadily, though. Soldier's Lotus is fairly easy to come by, since the soldier guys in Boletaria pretty much all have a chance to drop it.

LoG
Mar 9, 2004

CHOMP


gently caress this game in its stupid loving rear end in a top hat. I was expecting a hard game but this is just ridiculous. I'll probably be putting it up in SA Mart soon.

Edit: So all my souls are trapped in the Phalanx room so I can't buy any Firebombs. I guess this is where the farming comes in with the respawns to go buy some poo poo?

LoG fucked around with this message at Mar 31, 2009 around 22:57

Dantes
Sep 3, 2003
It can never be too cold.

LoG posted:

gently caress this game in its stupid loving rear end in a top hat. I was expecting a hard game but this is just ridiculous. I'll probably be putting it up in SA Mart soon.
Why did you post that ? You don't say where you're stuck so we can't help you and the rest of us like the game so we won't sympathize with you.

Tell us what boss and we'll help you get to speed.

Hackan Slash
May 31, 2007
Hit it until it's not a problem anymore

I just started NG+, and I'm not finding it that hard.

Maybe that's because I'm co-oping with crazy japanese guys and we're steamrolling the levels. I think I ended up beating 3 different levels with 6 different guys, and it was emasculating.

One of the guys was one-shotting everything with the cleaver and then went toe-to-toe with with the old hero.

Suprisingly, four of the six were women with beggar clothes, the magic turban and magic kryss. Everything dies in one soullight. Some BP's tried breaking in and they'd get hit with 15 moving soul arrows and die immediately.

Also, as an early warning to to BP's, you won't be able cast evacuate when someone tries to break in. I use the extra time to move behind their spawn and then run up and backstab them.

Fuzz
Jun 2, 2003

I'm an annoying drama queen fuckass with an online videogame grudge, but I still love Starfleet Dental

Vallens posted:

Just a quick tip on PVP.

If you drop an item, Black Phantoms can see it and pick it up. I started emptying my stash of slave shields by dropping them where a phantom would see it. They would run up to grab it while I run in behind them and backstab their rear end. Its a hell of a sneaky thing to do, and I'm sure my victims curse themselves for falling for such a silly trap.

This is absolutely brilliant, and is now being added to my repertoire.

LoG posted:

gently caress this game in its stupid loving rear end in a top hat. I was expecting a hard game but this is just ridiculous. I'll probably be putting it up in SA Mart soon.

Edit: So all my souls are trapped in the Phalanx room so I can't buy any Firebombs. I guess this is where the farming comes in with the respawns to go buy some poo poo?

Stop being a pussy. Also, you really don't need firebombs to kill Phalanx. The lock-on camera is a terrible idea for certain situations, and that's one of them. Just run around luring the mini Phalanxes off of him and then slash/stab/whack/whatever them in the back to kill them in like 2-3 hits. Once you've whittled most/all of them down, just beat on the main body until he dies, he doesn't have any sort of attack of his own. It's really not that hard... probably one of the easier things about 1-1, actually.

LoG
Mar 9, 2004

CHOMP


Sorry for the nerd rage. I'm stuck on Phalanx after spending like 2 hours trying to get to the fucker. I'll stop being a pussy and get evaluated by the harshness.

Zarick
Dec 28, 2004



If you're ragequitting in 1-1, maybe you should give up, honestly. You will get better, but the levels will get worse.

McCoy Pauley
Mar 2, 2006
Gonna eat so many goddamn crumpets.

Zarick posted:

If you're ragequitting in 1-1, maybe you should give up, honestly. You will get better, but the levels will get worse.

I'm not sure I would go that far. There's definitely a learning curve to this game, and you're past the steepest part of it once you're past Phalanx and can start spending souls to up your stats and upgrade your weapons. No matter how hard you find later levels after 1-1, you can always just go back and slowly grind souls and pick up healing grasses until you're ready to try something harder. And frankly, once you get a little used to the mechanics, most bosses have at least one way where you can just cheese past them, sniping from a distance or something else that presents very little risk. Random combat can still get tricky, particularly if you're not paying attention, but I think you're almost certainly going to feel yourself getting better at the game as you progress past 1-1.

Keep at it.

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Tzar
Jun 9, 2005

Dammit DeeDee, you've failed me for the last time!


Whorehey posted:

So in my farming for souls in 4-2 from the reaper there and by checking my pure white tendency there for the Makoto, I noticed that the black phantom Urbain respawns, just like a regular enemy. The cool part is that every time I kill him, he drops 3 chunks of Dark Moonstone and a Stone of Ephemeral Eye. Now I'm just stocking up before NG+

This confuses me . First of all I didn't even know you could face BP urbain, is that with or without rescuing him (that is, is he in the nexus or 4-2 when he's a BP), if he's in 4-2 he must only appear when WT is pure black, wouldn't you killing him repeatedly raise the tendency every time, or are you manually lowering it before you return to the nexus?... I just really want to kill him actually, UMBASA!

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