Demon's Souls: This is harsh. Evaluate me

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Shalinor: Jun 10, 2002; _{Can I buy you a rootbeer?}

Policenaut posted:

I think the melee combat is definitely far from button mashing. There's a lot that goes into proper timing, movement, and positioning that makes combat a lot more rewarding, there are still times when things die to mashing R1 (like the enemies in the first stage) but as you get further in you'll start having to form strategies. It's pretty sweet, having to come up with methods to fight each enemy.

Simple example - I'm soul level 40, and I'm currently fiddling around with 4-1, 3-2, 2-3, etc. A ways into the game. So I went back to 1-2, just to fiddle around.

The blue knights there can STILL take me from full health to dead in ONE combo if I'm snoozing. I was yawning through everything else, let one of them get a shield slam off on me, didn't dodge the followup, aaaaand dead. Woops.

The melee combat is extremely fulfilling, and requires a fair bit of skill. Button mashing will get you killed fast.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2009 22:05

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# ¿ Apr 20, 2024 04:44

Shalinor: Jun 10, 2002; _{Can I buy you a rootbeer?}

The Raglay posted:

If you feel your game lag for a moment and you're not in spirit form, you're being invaded. It'll take a minute or so, so use that time to prepare. On the flip side, be very careful of ambushes when invading. Treat every corner as a threat. Item's like the thief ring do work during PVP, and likewise any spell effects on your character (like mana regen from the crescent falchion) will be visible to another player.

Also, learn where the Black Phantom spawns in (by yourself invading in that level) - it's always the same spot, which can give you some hint as to direction of likely attack depending on the map and its choke points.

# ¿ Mar 30, 2009 19:51

Shalinor: Jun 10, 2002; _{Can I buy you a rootbeer?}

McCoy Pauley posted:

I've noticed this as well. I think the rating of the bonus for Dexterity increases, so there's that, but yeah, I'm still not sure the Scraping Spear was a good use of my Winged Spear +7.

The dexterity bonus increase is substantial (D->S), though I never actually sat down and compared the damage before and after that upgrade. I just assumed it would be stronger AND have dex bonus. I guess this explains why the spear wasn't so amazingly much better like I was expecting.

# ¿ Mar 30, 2009 22:27

Shalinor: Jun 10, 2002; _{Can I buy you a rootbeer?}

Arrrthritis posted:

Another thing i'm wondering about the game- Just how diverse are the melee weapons? Am I going to be stuck with a single sword tree, or will I have everything ranging from flails to poleaxes to clubs to spears?

There is at least one spear, a bunch of swords European-style swords (small and large varieties), a bunch of Japanese-style swords, a couple of slashing / middle-eastern swords, a bunch of clubs (small and large and various others), axes, daggers/knives of various sorts, punch weapons (both blunt and bladed), and there's even a spiked shield you can swing at people.

All of which tend to be upgradeable through around 3-6 different paths, with a number turning into some entirely different special sort of weapon if you upgrade properly.

You can also dual-wield any of the above at will however you lie, as everything can potentially be one-handed. You can also two-hand any of the above.

Two-handing a spiked shield all the way through the game? Why yes, yes you can, if you have nerves of steel and don't mind dying often.

EDIT: As far as buying a PS3 for this game? For me, it would actually be close. This + Uncharted or Little Big Planet would be enough to sway me, easily - usually I would wait for 3 games I really wanted (and obviously signs that there was more on the horizon), but this one's good enough that it would reduce that to 2 for me, if that helps you at all?

Shalinor fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Mar 30, 2009

# ¿ Mar 30, 2009 23:00

Shalinor: Jun 10, 2002; _{Can I buy you a rootbeer?}

Unone posted:

Just got this game today. Holy poo poo this is hard.

I get the feeling I really shouldn't be going in swords swinging. I really need to adapt my tactics.

Time for a reread of the thread I guess.

Don't worry about dying. No, really - try not to worry about it. The number of souls you get in the first level is poo poo anyways, you can't spend them until you beat the boss (which you may well die multiple times on), and the deaths teach you a great deal. Die often, experiment, and figure out what works and what doesn't. Until you get decent at the game (which means learning to time your blocks and dodges, amongst other things), you will die too often to collect a significant number of souls anyways.

EDIT: for anyone that remembers back pre-release, can you please tell us how the hell that one guy managed to get through the game despite never upgrading / dying constantly / sucking miserably? I can't imagine how someone like that would ever beat this game, it seems like he'd just die over and over again once he hit 3-1, 3-2, 4-1, etc.

Shalinor fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Mar 31, 2009

# ¿ Mar 31, 2009 21:20

Shalinor: Jun 10, 2002; _{Can I buy you a rootbeer?}

Sunday Punch posted:

Jesus christ that fight against Tower Knight was intense. Every time I'd knock him down he fell in such a way so that I was pinned between his shield and a wall.I just had to wait for him to get up so that I could go back to chipping away at his health. Finally felling him after 15 minutes of frantic dodging, rolling and munching grass was a relief. I'm glad I killed him on my first attempt too, I didn't notice any shortcuts in 1-2.

The shortcut in 1-2 is running. There's that long-cut underground with the dogs, but once you know the area you can clear down to the end in one or two minutes at most. Run by the mini-phalanx, ignore the guys on the first tower, run the second stretch (take out the archers), ignore the guys on that tower too, then run the last stretch. Very quick, and great for farming grass later.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2009 19:37

Shalinor: Jun 10, 2002; _{Can I buy you a rootbeer?}

Putting maneater on a tiny path and making all of his moves knock you off said path for insta-death was a dick move, but putting an unavoidable respawning red phantom mind flayer on the way TO said dick move is the crowning dick moment of the dick kingdom.

gently caress you, maneater. You don't even have a cool intro cinematic, you dick.

EDIT: VV

Which dagger? My +4 Quality Dagger may as well be nerf for all the notice he takes of it. As it is, I can reliably take him, but it requires a large number of perfectly timed rolls under paralysis bolts (+ a backstab, treated with turpentine, to get him down to under half heath). It's just irritating to have to do that every time before you even GET to the boss, and I end up burning a ton of resources on him only to get one-shotted by the boss 30 seconds in.

Shalinor fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Apr 3, 2009

# ¿ Apr 3, 2009 04:15

Shalinor: Jun 10, 2002; _{Can I buy you a rootbeer?}

Jimbot posted:

If that happens, how will you be able to cast resurrect on them?

Pretty sure resurrect is good explicity for reviving blue souls you summon into your game, a/o reviving other blue souls when you're a blue soul. Or I guess for being a helpful black phantom.

# ¿ Apr 3, 2009 16:48

Shalinor: Jun 10, 2002; _{Can I buy you a rootbeer?}

McCoy Pauley posted:

When you do get past the 3rd span, my advice is just to keep on running for the fog door to the boss, rather than tackle the enemies at the end of the span. They don't follow you through the fog door, obviously, and it's a lot easier to tackle them from behind once you have access to the 1-3 archstone.

Also keep in mind that this game isn't necessarily meant to be played in the order of 1-1->1-2->... - instead, do 1-1, then do 2-1, then do 3-1, and so on, then go back to 2-2 after you've done the others, more or less.

Some of them aren't so bad to do right after, but 1-2 in particular can be pretty harsh if you're new to the game. The archers at the end stand a good chance of pin cushioning your candy rear end while you try desperately to dodge around the blue knight that can kill you in 1-2 hits.

# ¿ Apr 3, 2009 20:26

Shalinor: Jun 10, 2002; _{Can I buy you a rootbeer?}

Fuzz posted:

Huh... I always beat 1-2 right after 1-1. The Tower Knight is probably one of the easiest boss fights in the game... not the second easiest, (that would be Garl Vinland or the Stormbringer) but he's up there.

Which classes have you taken that route?

They don't matter so much even a little ways into the game, but for 1-1/1-2/2-1/(maybe)3-1, I suspect that Thieves and similar are going to have a slightly rougher go of it than someone a little meatier with a better shield.

# ¿ Apr 3, 2009 21:44

Shalinor: Jun 10, 2002; _{Can I buy you a rootbeer?}

Sunday Punch posted:

Right. Umm, where can I get a talisman? (I wish the manual wasn't in chinese)

You'll find one over the course of gameplay, a/o depending on your initial class.

You can find one pretty early on, so long as you've got a decent shield and a blunt weapon (or happen to be really good at dodging/running). Spend all your souls, because you will probably die a few times doing this. Go to 4-1. Get past that first skeleton under the arch, go up the stairs, get past those skeletons, and now you're looking at a big castle wall with a gate. Look at the rightmost end of that wall, and you'll see a glow - go grab that, and that's your Talisman.

# ¿ Apr 4, 2009 18:55

Shalinor: Jun 10, 2002; _{Can I buy you a rootbeer?}

Irony.or.Death posted:

Good is a strong word; I just used the same strategy I use everywhere; clear until I have access to the primeval demon, quit the game to reset to neutral (unless I'm already leaning towards dark) then take out the npc black phantom and primeval demon in one run, and use an ephemral eye stone right before I land the killing blow on a boss.

Er, wait. So you clear to primeval, quit, which resets to neutral, then you start back up and you'd be neutral - and so wouldn't the primeval and NPC phantom be gone since you're not at black anymore?

# ¿ Apr 8, 2009 16:19

Shalinor: Jun 10, 2002; _{Can I buy you a rootbeer?}

Sunday Punch posted:

Wow, Adjudicator is an absolute joke of a boss fight. He's only got one melee attack, and it's so slow you'd have to make an effort to get hit with it. I just ran rings around him and slashed the wound in his side and he's down with no trouble. The samurai skeleton guarding the boss room put up way more of a fight.

He's slightly more hard if you try and fight him ranged (the tongue attack is slow enough that it fakes your attempt at dodging it now and then), but yeah, he's the easiest I've met so far. Still, Fool's Idol was only slightly harder.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2009 19:25

Shalinor: Jun 10, 2002; _{Can I buy you a rootbeer?}

Nick Biped posted:

I don't think it's necessarily the highest attribute. I got knocked off the environment once as a BP, and I lost the point from the Luck attribute, which was at 14 at the time. My highest one, though, was Strength, which was at 19.

Pretty sure it takes back whatever you last upgraded, ie. literally loses you your last soul level

# ¿ Apr 19, 2009 19:14

Shalinor: Jun 10, 2002; _{Can I buy you a rootbeer?}

Hamburger Test posted:

if you try using a shield with the polearm you will die; obvious I know, I just couldn't get over the fact that I'd have to put my shield on my back / remove it completely.

What?

I'm assuming here that the winged spear is the same as other pole arms, but being able to use it with a shield is a HUGE component of why I DO like it. I can attack, with significant range, without ever dropping my guard - that's a huge benefit in almost any fight. As far as I know, pole arms are one of the few types of weapons that you can do this with (the other I know of being rapiers, though I assume there are moer?). The only time it's cumbersome is if the attacker is doing massively stamina-draining hits, but then I can just dodge.

Why wouldn't you use a shield with a polearm?

# ¿ Apr 22, 2009 23:35

Shalinor: Jun 10, 2002; _{Can I buy you a rootbeer?}

Aries posted:

But then again my character is built and armed more as an assassin, so perhaps I'm playing in-character .

Assassins do tend to have to cheese some of the bosses, especially as you get a bit further into the game. They're powerful early game, but late game really start tapering off. But they're also really fun in PvP.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2009 19:18

Shalinor: Jun 10, 2002; _{Can I buy you a rootbeer?}

I don't think I would want to be high the first time I went into 3-1. That does a decent job of loving with you even when you're sober.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2009 17:25

Shalinor: Jun 10, 2002; _{Can I buy you a rootbeer?}

If anyone's interested, I ended up deciding to sell my copy for a cool $40 shipped. It's the (english) import copy, plays perfectly well, ps3 has no region locking, etc.

Nice if you want to save a few bucks, and you're not missing out on anything in particular compared to the NA release - it isn't the kind of online where you can play specifically with a friend on a whim.

EDIT: VV I'll ship overseas, too, so long as you toss in the bit of extra postage.

Shalinor fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Oct 4, 2009

# ¿ Oct 4, 2009 04:15

Shalinor: Jun 10, 2002; _{Can I buy you a rootbeer?}

Darknight630 posted:

I died there twice already, I decided to try my hand with the Blue Eyed Knight instead in that area.

For reference, that Blue Eyed Knight is a GREAT farming target for mid-level herbs once you can enter the zone from the 1-2 starting point. Super fast to get to, drops great herbs (and lower-level herbs all along the way to him), fair number of souls at that point in the game to boot, etc.

# ¿ Oct 7, 2009 00:42

Shalinor: Jun 10, 2002; _{Can I buy you a rootbeer?}

I never had much luck as a black phantom against anyone with a blue, mostly because my super-de-dooper assassin backstab never really killed anyone. So sure, I could get the drop, but before I could finish one of them off, the other would kill me (and if I backed off, they healed, and then that was it). I'd often take out the blue at least, but with a sliver of health left, then that was all she wrote.

... not that you guys countering blacks aren't cool and all, just, pretty much anyone with a blue means the black is almost always screwed, unless they're using broken equipment or similar.

(which is why, if you have a body, ALWAYS FIND A BODY BUDDY! Souls would dearly love to help you, all you gotta do is click the little blue symbol. So click it, dummy.)

Lesson 2 is: yes, playing an assassin is cool, but no, assassin classes in and of themselves still suck. The defining move, the backstab, is just a regular move in Demon's Souls that almost anybody can do, and a backstab with the kind of stats you'd have as a warrior or barbarian et al will result in a TON more damage than you're likely to do as a wimpy dagger waver in fancy black armor. So instead, be a barbarian/whatever that just happens to backstab and wear light armor.

Shalinor fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Oct 7, 2009

# ¿ Oct 7, 2009 23:21

Shalinor: Jun 10, 2002; _{Can I buy you a rootbeer?}

Harlock posted:

I'm really tired of this dragon in 1-2.

Also, I'm playing two characters at once, and my Thief is so much better at stuff because of the lesser encumbrance. My knight is getting wrecked just on 1-1.

Thieves are very good early game, but taper off quickly. Heavier classes are harder early on, but then get easier as you get further into the game and better at it (and soon start to completely outstrip thieves in every conceivable fashion).

If I could recommend one thing to new players, it's to NOT play the stereotypical thief. Regular fighters and barbarians and even mages can backstab just as well as someone oriented toward agility/thievery, but they can all (maybe shy mages) do it with FAR better weapons and damage numbers, once you get even a little ways into the game. Thieves, if you keep going for the agility weapons, just end up as this borderline class, not quite mages and not quite fighters, and thus not terribly good at either.

If weight is getting you down ( :haw:

) try a barbarian. I've heard they're a hoot to play as.

Shalinor fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Oct 8, 2009

# ¿ Oct 8, 2009 16:52

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# ¿ Apr 20, 2024 04:44

Shalinor: Jun 10, 2002; _{Can I buy you a rootbeer?}

Harlock posted:

My dream is to parry and riposte everything I possibly can.

You can do that fine as a fighter, or a barbarian, or even a mage - it just depends on weapon, and any of those can find parrying/riposting weapons. Don't dump points into the traditional thief path if that's all you want. The game plays like there are high level agility-focused weapons and armor, but ultimately, they either suck compared to most others or are strictly being-an-rear end in a top hat-in-PVP oriented.

Someone with high endurance can not only dodge just as well as you and backstab just a well, but they can do it while wearing real armor and holding a giant fuckoff sword AND some degree of shield - and you'll still be in black leather, with either a spear (that they could also use) or a dagger-alike.

(don't get me wrong, I played a thief type, and just about beat the game... except for that god damned loving panther guy with wings, seriously, gently caress him... but realistically, "thieves" aren't anything in this game, since your class doesn't dictate what you can do, and thief-focused stats railroad them toward ultimate mediocrity)

EDIT: VV I don't mean class, I mean playing like a thief. That is, bumping up agility, because thieves do that, etc. I tried to make an agile character focused on backstabbing and stealth and riposting, and that's a meaningless character type in this game. I was aiming for the high agility weapons, I dabbled a little in magic (thief/mage), etc, which meant I was very low on endurance and strength in the grand scheme of things, resulting in an in-between character that was quite weak at high level. Playable, but a bitch to do anything with.

Shalinor fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Oct 8, 2009

# ¿ Oct 8, 2009 16:57

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