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As long as the baby has a brain stem, it can theoretically survive - albeit very impaired.
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Apr 20, 2009 19:47
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| # ¿ Apr 25, 2024 11:48 |
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Disheartening fact: The baby can feel pain, but lacks the part of the brain that differentiates pain from other sensations - in a sense, everything hurts. It also cannot express discomfort. It might be in agony, and no one could ever know.
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Apr 20, 2009 19:57
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reflir posted:Ah yes, the phenomenal consciousness of a brainless baby Pain sensation does not require consciousness. People in vegetative states and comas regularly experience migraines, which can be seen with an EEG. Whether or not the pain is 'experienced' is a matter of philosophical debate. My girlfriend, a nurse, has a family member who is also now missing most of his brain. Edit: I'm not talking Terry Schiavo here. I'm taking about an unconscious, but effectively 'aware' person. This baby, for example, is not vegetative. Just motionless and uncomprehending.
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Apr 20, 2009 20:25
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Tweek posted:So when was the wedding? Saw that coming a mile away.
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Apr 20, 2009 20:28
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The Butcher posted:It's not a matter of philosophical debate. There is nothing that actually experiences the pain. Okay sure the nerves may fire if caused pain, but there is nobody there to hear them. A MYSTERIOUS TEXT posted:what the hell are you talking about you gibbering retard Wikipedia posted:"Children with this disorder are born without a forebrain, the largest part of the brain consisting mainly of the cerebral hemispheres (which include the isocortex, which is responsible for higher level cognition, i.e., thinking). The remaining brain tissue is often exposed—not covered by bone or skin.[2]" Forebrain missing. Everything else is in-tact, including hippocampus, amygdala, pituitary, medula, etc. Really, it doesn't take much to look this up.
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Apr 20, 2009 20:31
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reflir posted:If pain sensation does not require consciousness, what is the point of general anaesthesia for surgery? Having no memory of pain does not mean pain wasn't experienced. Pain is not a subjective experience - it's a quantifiable, biological function. Anesthetic (and I live with an anesthetist) paralyzes the body and renders you incapable of remembering the experiences. Pain is still felt, it simply isn't remembered. There is no emotional association. Edit: Again, this enters into a philosophical debate.
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Apr 20, 2009 20:35
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A MYSTERIOUS TEXT posted:Stuff. Okay then.
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Apr 20, 2009 20:37
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iamyourgoldfish posted:You can't have this both ways. Pick a definition: either "pain" (electrical activity that occurs between sensory neurons and somatosensory cortex) or "pain" (the conscious experience of neural activity). The first one. I can't think of a better word than 'felt.' Err...generated?
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Apr 20, 2009 20:42
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mR sPoon posted:Digeridude, you are loving retarded. That would mean a lot more if I had any idea who you were.
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Apr 20, 2009 20:44
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iamyourgoldfish posted:So the neurons fire off their little electrical bursts. Something on the other end, like a cortex, turns thousands of little electrical bursts into something meaningful. Then, by your definition, pain is the reaction to these inputs, rather than the inputs themselves? I don't subscribe to that, personally. It's like asking, "Is an electric motor being powered if the magnet has been removed?" Well, yeah, in a sense, but there's no way you'd ever know it. And if that motor contained a tachometer, it would report that it wasn't being powered as it's based on rotation speed. In the case of this baby, which could be said to be missing the entire motor - then fine. It's still reasonable, though, to think that unconscious people still react to pain. The brain DOES register the signal, in that case. They simply cannot vocalize or move to express it.
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Apr 20, 2009 21:03
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emches posted:Only if there is a functional brain. Functional anterior cingulate gyrus. There's no telling if this baby has one - probably not.
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Apr 20, 2009 21:23
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iamyourgoldfish posted:"Pain" doesn't exist if it isn't experienced. Neurons fire whether the impulse goes anywhere or not. You're using the same word for the electricity in your sensory neurons and the subjective experience of the electricity. The latter requires a cortex (or something), the former is just electricity. Only takes a couple of seconds: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22anterior+cingulate+gyrus%22+pain
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Apr 20, 2009 21:29
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iamyourgoldfish posted:Now, without using wikipedia, tell us where the anterior cingulate is located. For bonus points, tell us how retarded you are for suggesting that someone with no forebrain might possess one. Something hasn't really struck you yet, has it? Anencephalics die after sixty seconds. This one has been alive for nearly a month (assuming it's true), suggesting that it has more of a brain than most.
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Apr 20, 2009 21:41
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| # ¿ Apr 25, 2024 11:48 |
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iamyourgoldfish posted:Let me get this straight - it's plausible to you that, while this particular baby needs a feeding tube because she doesn't have the reflexes required to swallow, she might possess anything like a functional cortex? You know what? You're right. The baby can't feel pain, and so it's completely fair for her to keep it alive. I'm done here - I'm off to kill some sponges and jellyfish without remorse.
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Apr 20, 2009 21:56
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