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Officer_Bulbock
Jul 28, 2007



Severed posted:

Thanks for the information. I've read through the tutorials and I'm still suffering some very low FPS (20-30) in some areas of the map; mostly outside. Here's a diagram to illustrate:



Basically, whenever the player is in the outside area to the right of the building, the FPS drops dramatically if the player is facing the entire building. Where can I put HINTs to help improve this? The outside area is basically a parking lot, so its pretty bare outside of street lamps and sidewalks, etc.

edit - If it helps, the layout of the indoor area is only one story, so no multiple levels in the facility. The area that is diagonal is where the entrance to the building is. That little area where you see the box in the bottom right of the building was just my attempt at making a window for illustration purposes.

One posibility would be to use a func_areaportalwindow so that the interior fades to black and it won't render unless you're close. Problems are that lots of open areaportals at once take a toll so you might want to block off a few windows permanently.

Other than that, if you can see into most of the building from outside and it's full of props there isn't so much you can do- if the player can see all of the building's rooms from the outside then those rooms have to be rendered unless you change the geometry (try and keep most of building's detail in inner rooms which can't be seen from the outside).

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ExtraNoise
Apr 11, 2007



Rectus posted:

Valve uses individual textures for each sign/character, it's probably the best way.

You also can't split up textures when using overlays, unless I'm missing something.

Isn't it possible to change the size of the overlay to the size you want, change the scaling of the texture inside of that overlay, and then offset it so that the individual part of the texture is what's shown in the overlay?

I'm pretty sure that's a valid technique.

If it has to come down to individual textures for each sign, that's pretty unfortunate. I suppose each one could be pretty small. (Edit: 64x64?)

Is there a limit to how many overlays can be applied to a surface?


Many hours later edit: Alright nerds, now's your chance to shine. Resistance is futile.



ExtraNoise fucked around with this message at Apr 25, 2010 around 06:25

Rectus
Apr 27, 2008


ExtraNoise posted:

Isn't it possible to change the size of the overlay to the size you want, change the scaling of the texture inside of that overlay, and then offset it so that the individual part of the texture is what's shown in the overlay?


I never knew you could change the texture scaling. The entity properties for the overlay aren't that intuitive.

You probably should use whatever method that works best for you.

Officer_Bulbock
Jul 28, 2007



I'd definitely say individual textures for each sign/word overlay. Making each character an overlay and pasting hundreds of them is just begging for annoyances to crop up later, and filesize isn't really that big an issue.

ExtraNoise
Apr 11, 2007



So I'm having some problems with Lightmaps:



They were working great. By default their scale was set to 16 and appeared very bright. I lowered them to 8 and they looked perfect. But when I made some changes to the lights in the scene the textures blew out to a bright white again. Lowering the Lightmap scale to 1 had seemingly no effect.

What's going on? Are the lights illuminating the brushes enough that they just look like their Lightmap scales are out of whack? For only two lights it seems awfully even. I'm pretty confused.

ExtraNoise
Apr 11, 2007



I'm still having the same issues as the problem above. I can't figure it out. Anything using the lightmap scale appears blinding white, even when I set the scale to 1.

I initially thought that maybe there were just too many other lights in the scene and these may be affecting the textures with lightmaps. However, removing all lights still blows out the textures and they appear bright white.

I then thought it might have something to do with cubemaps (for whatever reason) so I rebuilt them and it had no effect.

I don't mean to double-post, but does anyone have any ideas?

Irish Taxi Driver
Sep 12, 2004

We're just gonna open our tool palette and... get some entities... how about some nice happy trees? We'll put them near this barn. Give that cow some shade... There.

Are you compiling fullbright or is it loading in fullbright?

EDIT: Have you read this?

Irish Taxi Driver fucked around with this message at May 1, 2010 around 05:54

ExtraNoise
Apr 11, 2007



Irish Taxi Driver posted:

Are you compiling fullbright or is it loading in fullbright?

Nope, it should be loading as normal. RAD is set to normal when compiling and there are lights in the scene.

The texture I am using is glass/light_flourescent02
I haven't been able to find any specific documentation online for this particular texture, so I imagine it's pretty straight forward. flourescent01 does some straaange stuff, though.


Edit: Standing very close to the texture while looking at it with the flashlight off causes the HDR effect to "darken" and you can see part of the texture, but only when the lightmap scale is set to 1. 8 or 16 causes it to be white no matter how you look at it.

Edit 2:

Irish Taxi Driver posted:

Have you tried another texture or making a new one?

Well then. Don't I look quite the fool.
Looks great. Thanks!

ExtraNoise fucked around with this message at May 1, 2010 around 06:04

Irish Taxi Driver
Sep 12, 2004

We're just gonna open our tool palette and... get some entities... how about some nice happy trees? We'll put them near this barn. Give that cow some shade... There.

Have you tried another texture or making a new one?

ExtraNoise
Apr 11, 2007



Next question. I've had this as a problem in all of my maps, but it's never been quite so noticeable as in a brightly-lit corridor.



Why are all the props/characters always so dark? What am I forgetting to add to my maps?

At first I thought it was just a lack of cubemaps, but adding more and rebuilding them doesn't seem to help much.

Irish Taxi Driver
Sep 12, 2004

We're just gonna open our tool palette and... get some entities... how about some nice happy trees? We'll put them near this barn. Give that cow some shade... There.

Its the origins of the props. If its in a bad place they just come out black.

Use info_lighting to make a new lighting origin for them.

ExtraNoise
Apr 11, 2007



Is there a good tutorial out there for reskinning for L4D2? I can't find one online. Maybe I'm using the wrong search terms.

Also, is it possible to change the character models/arm models in L4D2 similar to mods for HL2? I figure if I'm going to do this, I should do it right.

Dodgeball
Sep 24, 2003

Oh no! Dodgeball is really scary!


Slightly off-topic, but this is the only thread I think I can catch both:

Irish or FB, how do you get music to play over Ustream while broadcasting video? I don't want to use the microphone-to-speaker method because I have a dog that likes to bark at EVERYTHING and I like to yell at her for barking at EVERYTHING.

Irish Taxi Driver
Sep 12, 2004

We're just gonna open our tool palette and... get some entities... how about some nice happy trees? We'll put them near this barn. Give that cow some shade... There.

I just played music in the background and used headphones.

ExtraNoise
Apr 11, 2007



Alright, so I'm pretty happy with the lights (finally!) and decided to start setting up my prefabs for "red alert" in the hallways.

My ingenious (heh ) solution was to simply dim the lights in the corridor and then add two red spot lights on both sides of the hallway with a falloff that spans the length of the red-alert light. It's white, so I was hoping it would look red as the red light glowed. Right now I have it on a soft fade.



The fade looks pretty good, but the light looks pretty awful. Very corny. Would moving it right between the two panels and in front of the light bar prevent that obnoxious red circle? It's not exactly the worst, but still.

Lastly, and I've been lucky because I can't figure this out, but how do I turn down the intensity of the overhead lights? I reduced the HDR and saw no difference, changed the "brightness color" to gray and saw no difference (maybe?) and even tried adjusting the falloff but that was fairly sharp. What's the best way to do this?

My last question is in regards to the light textures of the panel lights. In Hammer they look dark, like they are turned off. In game they are glowing as in the screenshot above. How is this controlled? Can I "turn them off" in Hammer?

Thanks for any help, guys. Your advice is invaluable.

Rectus
Apr 27, 2008


ExtraNoise posted:

My last question is in regards to the light textures of the panel lights. In Hammer they look dark, like they are turned off. In game they are glowing as in the screenshot above. How is this controlled? Can I "turn them off" in Hammer?

This is handled by the material file. You turn it off by making a new material by copying from the the VPK, renaming the file to something unique, removing the "$selfillum 1" line from it and replacing the materials in hammer with the new one.

ExtraNoise posted:

Lastly, and I've been lucky because I can't figure this out, but how do I turn down the intensity of the overhead lights? I reduced the HDR and saw no difference, changed the "brightness color" to gray and saw no difference (maybe?) and even tried adjusting the falloff but that was fairly sharp. What's the best way to do this?

What kind of lights are you using? Playing around with the 50% and 100% falloffs works best in my experience. Try setting the 50% falloff to a lower value for more diffuse lighting.

Rectus fucked around with this message at May 11, 2010 around 07:10

Fishbus
Aug 30, 2006

Dis freekin post

Dodgeball posted:

Slightly off-topic, but this is the only thread I think I can catch both:

Irish or FB, how do you get music to play over Ustream while broadcasting video? I don't want to use the microphone-to-speaker method because I have a dog that likes to bark at EVERYTHING and I like to yell at her for barking at EVERYTHING.

You can just tell procaster to record "what's I hear" (aka, through speakers) or just through stereo-mix.

I threw a quick hack together, I told my input settings in windows to listen to stereo mix (instead of mic), and then the procaster to listen to my mic; the result: straight recording of the music (and steam/msn notification noises lol) to the stream

ExtraNoise
Apr 11, 2007



Rectus posted:

This is handled by the material file. You turn it off by making a new material by copying from the the VPK, renaming the file to something unique, removing the "$selfillum 1" line from it and replacing the materials in hammer with the new one.

Fantastic idea. Thanks.

quote:

What kind of lights are you using? Playing around with the 50% and 100% falloffs works best in my experience. Try setting the 50% falloff to a lower value for more diffuse lighting.

A simple "light" (omni). Would using light_spot work better? Can I change a light_spot to a rectangular area and aim one into the corridor and the other at the light strip to make it look like its glowing?

Playing around with it last night, it seemed like changing the falloff distance for the omnis worked pretty well, but it was still creating too much light on brush surfaces and not nearly enough light on the props (characters/dead guy in hallway).

Rectus
Apr 27, 2008


ExtraNoise posted:

A simple "light" (omni). Would using light_spot work better? Can I change a light_spot to a rectangular area and aim one into the corridor and the other at the light strip to make it look like its glowing?

No, you can't make the spotlight rectangular, but unless the edges of the lightcone needs to be really sharp, it doesn't matter that much.
The florescent lights in L4D are made with both a faint omni an a stronger spotlight.
Look at the L4D1 reference maps at how Valve did it.

ExtraNoise posted:

Playing around with it last night, it seemed like changing the falloff distance for the omnis worked pretty well, but it was still creating too much light on brush surfaces and not nearly enough light on the props (characters/dead guy in hallway).

If the props are too dark, you might want to use info_lighting entities to get them to light up properly.

Dodgeball
Sep 24, 2003

Oh no! Dodgeball is really scary!


Fishbus posted:

You can just tell procaster to record "what's I hear" (aka, through speakers) or just through stereo-mix.

I threw a quick hack together, I told my input settings in windows to listen to stereo mix (instead of mic), and then the procaster to listen to my mic; the result: straight recording of the music (and steam/msn notification noises lol) to the stream

Dang it, I don't seem to have the stereo mix function in my Volume controls. Plus I use UStream. Dang, thanks.

bbcisdabomb
Jan 14, 2008

SHEESH


ExtraNoise posted:



Are there any more screenshots? This is an awesome concept and I'm something of a trekkie

I really hope this gets even a beta. I will play it SO HARD.

e.

Dodgeball posted:

Dang it, I don't seem to have the stereo mix function in my Volume controls. Plus I use UStream. Dang, thanks.

Do you have a Dell? They've been disabling the Stereo Mix on their units for a while now.

double e. Looks like they've reversed that decision, but if you have an older model you're probably still screwed.

bbcisdabomb fucked around with this message at May 15, 2010 around 06:34

ExtraNoise
Apr 11, 2007



bbcisdabomb posted:

Are there any more screenshots? This is an awesome concept and I'm something of a trekkie

I really hope this gets even a beta. I will play it SO HARD.

I'm glad you're excited for it. I have a work-in-progress list on L4Dmaps:
http://www.l4dmaps.com/details.php?file=5560

I'll update there as new screens come along. And I'll probably continue posting here as I get stuck on various stupid parts. For example, I have to make the doors work soon and I'm absolutely dreading the sort of scripting I'll have to add to make that work. Same goes for the custom "star trek controls are not working sound" that would chime if the player tries to access something that doesn't work (like turbolift controls).

The last screenshot was this:



Same hallway, but it's almost done now. I just need to adjust the floor lights a bit again. The red lights fade in and out very much like they do on the show. It's all very... eerie.

Irish Taxi Driver
Sep 12, 2004

We're just gonna open our tool palette and... get some entities... how about some nice happy trees? We'll put them near this barn. Give that cow some shade... There.

ExtraNoise posted:

I'll update there as new screens come along. And I'll probably continue posting here as I get stuck on various stupid parts. For example, I have to make the doors work soon and I'm absolutely dreading the sort of scripting I'll have to add to make that work.

If they're just slide doors you can use the origin movement method and a trigger_multiple with OnStartTouchAll to open them and OnEndTouchAll to close them. Dunno if that means they'll open for infected too.

ExtraNoise
Apr 11, 2007



Irish Taxi Driver posted:

If they're just slide doors you can use the origin movement method and a trigger_multiple with OnStartTouchAll to open them and OnEndTouchAll to close them. Dunno if that means they'll open for infected too.

I'm trying to think, is there a level where something like this exists that I can pull apart and attempt to rebuild from? The level from the Dead Air campaign in L4D where the crane lowers the container?

For some reason I'm having a hard time thinking of good examples.

Edit: I'm dumb. I'm thinking like to start an effect, not a trigger_multiple. I'll play with this and see if I can get it to work relatively easily.

ExtraNoise
Apr 11, 2007



This might be just as dumb a question as the above one, but is there any way to setup a brush so that when I open its properties it shows me the settings I had setup when I changed it from an object to a function or trigger?

For example, I select a brush, change it using Ctrl+T and then set it up as a func_door. When I select something else and come back to it, it acts as a blank object. I reselct "func_door" from the dropdown list and all my previous settings are erased. I've never seen it mentioned anywhere, but do you basically get only one shot to setup a brush's properties? Am I missing something really obvious?

Irish Taxi Driver
Sep 12, 2004

We're just gonna open our tool palette and... get some entities... how about some nice happy trees? We'll put them near this barn. Give that cow some shade... There.

ExtraNoise posted:

I'm trying to think, is there a level where something like this exists that I can pull apart and attempt to rebuild from? The level from the Dead Air campaign in L4D where the crane lowers the container?

For some reason I'm having a hard time thinking of good examples.

Edit: I'm dumb. I'm thinking like to start an effect, not a trigger_multiple. I'll play with this and see if I can get it to work relatively easily.

The doors from the shower room in ctf_2fort. exactly the same effect.

Solarin
Nov 15, 2007
Look cool, feel good, high AL.

ExtraNoise posted:

This might be just as dumb a question as the above one, but is there any way to setup a brush so that when I open its properties it shows me the settings I had setup when I changed it from an object to a function or trigger?

For example, I select a brush, change it using Ctrl+T and then set it up as a func_door. When I select something else and come back to it, it acts as a blank object. I reselct "func_door" from the dropdown list and all my previous settings are erased. I've never seen it mentioned anywhere, but do you basically get only one shot to setup a brush's properties? Am I missing something really obvious?

The problem might be your selection mode. When it's set to 'Solids' and you select a brush-based entity the normal object properties window doesn't come up. I think it treats it just as a normal brush in that mode.

Solarin fucked around with this message at May 16, 2010 around 02:05

ExtraNoise
Apr 11, 2007



Thanks for the help, guys. I've got the doors working. They need a little work, but I'm really happy with the results.

As for why it was displaying a blank object type when I selected it (after deselecting it) it was because I had ignore groups on. You'd think that wouldn't make a difference for an individual brush, but alas, there's the answer.

Severed
Jul 9, 2001

idspispopd

Has anyone made a Resident Evil mod for Left 4 Dead? I see a bunch that were under development, but I haven't seen one finished.

Luigi Thirty
Apr 30, 2006

Emergency confection port.


I'm having a weird problem with Hammer. When my 3D view camera is in the void, my side/front/top view windows work correctly. When I'm in a room, the side/front/top view windows go blank and stop responding until I go back to the void. Anyone have this happen to them? It doesn't matter what game or mod I'm editing, it does this in all of them.

Luigi Thirty fucked around with this message at May 18, 2010 around 03:50

ExtraNoise
Apr 11, 2007



I've run into another odd problem.



Why do the overlays on my doors not work? There should be an overlay on each door (for the title of the door) but after changing them to func_door they simply do not appear.

I opened up the overlays themselves and remapped them to the faces (the numbers of which did change and they appear on the doors in Hammer) but they do not appear in the game.

I couldn't find anything about func_doors not allowing for overlays, so I'm guessing I'm overlooking something. Anyone have any ideas?


Luigi Thirty posted:

I'm having a weird problem with Hammer. When my 3D view camera is in the void, my side/front/top view windows work correctly. When I'm in a room, the side/front/top view windows go blank and stop responding until I go back to the void. Anyone have this happen to them? It doesn't matter what game or mod I'm editing, it does this in all of them.

Luigi!

When they "go blank", are they black? Do you have one of the 3D previews selected under view? Do you have "Show models in 2D" selected? If so, what happens when they go blank and you attempt to zoom in and out on them?

Irish Taxi Driver
Sep 12, 2004

We're just gonna open our tool palette and... get some entities... how about some nice happy trees? We'll put them near this barn. Give that cow some shade... There.

ExtraNoise posted:

I've run into another odd problem.



Why do the overlays on my doors not work? There should be an overlay on each door (for the title of the door) but after changing them to func_door they simply do not appear.

I opened up the overlays themselves and remapped them to the faces (the numbers of which did change and they appear on the doors in Hammer) but they do not appear in the game.

I couldn't find anything about func_doors not allowing for overlays, so I'm guessing I'm overlooking something. Anyone have any ideas?

Ive never tried putting overlays on moving brushes, I'm pretty sure you can't.

Luigi Thirty
Apr 30, 2006

Emergency confection port.


ExtraNoise posted:

Luigi!

When they "go blank", are they black? Do you have one of the 3D previews selected under view? Do you have "Show models in 2D" selected? If so, what happens when they go blank and you attempt to zoom in and out on them?

They're solid black, but they will show one model. Zooming in and out makes it larger or smaller. I haven't touched the settings. Show models in 2D is selected.

The 3D previews work, but the 2D ones don't.

Rectus
Apr 27, 2008


ExtraNoise posted:

Doors

Can you get regular infected to trigger the doors to open?
If not, then you can make the actual door props out of func_breakables, and parent them to the func_doors. This will get the added benefit of the door actually working as an obstacle for the infected.

Also if your door becomes complicated, you might consider putting it into an instance for ease of management.

Irish Taxi Driver
Sep 12, 2004

We're just gonna open our tool palette and... get some entities... how about some nice happy trees? We'll put them near this barn. Give that cow some shade... There.

Rectus posted:

Also if your door becomes complicated, you might consider putting it into an instance for ease of management.

I'd suggest doing that anyway for ease of use.

I emailed Valve about a few things and I got a response on them:

1. Instances in L4D1AT. Not planned.

2. Custom particles/soundscapes_manifests. Might be happening!

Fishbus
Aug 30, 2006

Dis freekin post

Whatever happened to the tf2 love in here

Luigi Thirty
Apr 30, 2006

Emergency confection port.


I reset my game configurations and now Hammer works again.

Irish Taxi Driver
Sep 12, 2004

We're just gonna open our tool palette and... get some entities... how about some nice happy trees? We'll put them near this barn. Give that cow some shade... There.

Fishbus posted:

Whatever happened to the tf2 love in here

I ain't got time to tf2

EDIT: Also tf2 frustrates me in ways l4d doesn't, and vice versa. I just feel more like l4d right now.

Irish Taxi Driver fucked around with this message at May 18, 2010 around 18:19

Rectus
Apr 27, 2008


Fishbus posted:

Whatever happened to the tf2 love in here

The TF2 map pool feels pretty saturated. Most new maps I've tried seem like dusty old rehashes of 5 CP and gravelpit style maps with not much new to add.

I also feel that making static deathmatch arena maps is kinda boring.

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Fishbus
Aug 30, 2006

Dis freekin post

I think a lot of it is simply down to Valve buying maps off the community, it brings a lot of interest towards generating content, but it can also bring out those looking for a quick buck, pretty much copying tried and tested, enjoyable 5pt CP maps that are quite solid but feels like there's no love behind it. I think the amount - and quality - of the maps would be much different today if valve said "no monies, but we'll put awesome maps in the game" as it would bring out the real passionate people. I actually expected nothing in return for steel, I was super happy that it was just going IN TF2, nevermind getting buxx for it.

As for what I'm doing right now, sure I'm making some maps, but I've not got as much time as I used to, but I'll have a lot of holidays to take soon, and my lust for getting out my older maps (I'm actually finishing off the level I did before steel!) is growing. Work is requiring less and less creative level design stuff and more support/placement/firefighting etc etc, so I actually want to do more stuff when I get home

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