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Ethnic Hairstyles posted:Shapeshifting minotaur sorcerer vampire adept. Thank god for magic damage and allergies.
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Jul 14, 2009 18:29
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In the same game that Servicio en Espanol mentioned, I'm a menehune, a metavariant dwarf. All I got out of it: Hairy as gently caress, and can see normally underwater. The metavariants aren't great for min/maxing BECAUSE of them being so uncommon. You're instantly recognizable, which screws over any normal runner.
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Jul 14, 2009 19:00
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MohawkSatan posted:Hairy as gently caress -2 on Grooming checks. Yeah, I was thinking that were I DMing a game I'd give metavariants outside their traditional homeland an extra Public Awareness point or something.
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Jul 14, 2009 22:31
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MohawkSatan posted:In the same game that Servicio en Espanol mentioned, I'm a menehune, a metavariant dwarf. All I got out of it: Hairy as gently caress, and can see normally underwater. The metavariants aren't great for min/maxing BECAUSE of them being so uncommon. You're instantly recognizable, which screws over any normal runner. It seems that in every edition but 4th, they got different stat increases than their baseline ones. I think it's cool they changed that because it offers a little more variety. I hadn't really looked at that section, or a lot of that book for that matter, because it seemed to be a repeat of the 3rd edition one with new stats.
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Jul 14, 2009 22:50
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:It seems that in every edition but 4th, they got different stat increases than their baseline ones. IIRC, most of the metavariants have the exact same stats as the standard metatype, but have some other small ability or interesting feature. The Infected, Drakes, shapeshifters, free spirits, AIs and random sapient creatures, all bets are off for them. Regeneration, Infection, poisin, multiple forms, being a living blob of magic, or being a Matrix god are common. Then you need to consider that Infected, Drakes, Shapeshifters, Free Spirits, AIs, those can all manage to be sneaky fuckers and pass for normal metas and do normal runs most of the time. Sapients, like Pixies, Centaurs, and Sasquatches, they are hosed as normal runners, as are some metavariants. Everybody is going to remember the one foot tall dude with wings, the loving WOOKIE, the damned Horseman, or the 3.5 meter tall bearded gun with bark for skin. Drakes suffer from this hugely the instant they shift to drake form(who isn't going to remember a loving DRAGON in the goddamned hit squad?), and AIs can never meet in the meat, unless you count riding a drone as in the meat. I'm beginning to think I've put too much thought into this. Eh, this is what I get for always being a monster in DnD, or an oddball in SR(excluding the nice, normal troll combat adept who got a single DV 18 hit on a security guard with a javelin). Edits for extra stuff, clarification, and typo. MohawkSatan fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Jul 15, 2009 |
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Jul 15, 2009 02:12
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Furball owns, little hairy man with big guns is cool.
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Jul 15, 2009 05:36
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MohawkSatan posted:word Yes, in 4th Edition metavariants are the same but in 3rd for instance they are not. Hence my comment that in every edition but 4th they are different. I'm cool with them in 4th now.
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Jul 15, 2009 06:35
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I'm actually a bigger fan of Shadowrun because there are no heroes or villains, just protagonists. At least in theory. I mean, you can be a good guy or a bad guy but life expectancy drops dramatically if you're not morally flexible. These people are in it to get paid and leave with their hides intact and maybe have some fun on the way there. One day they're saving children from a burning orphanage the next I'm starting gang wars to bring housing prices down for a buyout. Superhero, supervillain. That's too black and white. Shadowrunners are mercs for hire, nothing more or less.
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Jul 17, 2009 07:41
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Yeah. One day you'll be fighting the system. The next you'll be working for the man.
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Jul 17, 2009 23:22
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Well me and my friends just finished playing shadowrun for the first time. We played D&D sporadically, and I enjoy cyber punk novels so I persuaded everyone to try it. I was the game master, and I decided to run "On the Run" based off this thread. I don't think we could have done any worse! We went into the night not knowing the rules that well, but I figured we could just make poo poo up if we ran into something we didn't know that well and it wouldn't be a big deal. Everyone was eager to play so it went fine in that regard. We were at the scene where you are supposed to break into the concert at the warehouse and steal the lead musician's commlink, and my players all hosed it up miserably. They decided to go 9 hours before the concert started, which I figured was a fine idea. I was surprised when they decided to not scout the place out at all, instead they began making attempts to get in. They didn't even bother to look around in depth, or even walk around the perimeter of the building. Their first plan involved fake press credentials, which one of the characters was created with. This wasn't too bad of a plan. They succeeded in convincing the Troll door guards that their credentials were real. So I figured the door guards would ask the head of security if they could let these guys in. If you read the adventure, this guy is a ganger who is friends with the musician. The musician doesn't want to act like a sell-out, so he trusts security to his ganger friend. The gang is actually doing a good job, but as the night progresses, this head of security guy gets more and more desperate to satisfy his drug addiction. Since the concert hadn't even started yet, I figured security would be operating smoothly. So the head guy says he can't let them in. They make one last attempt to persuade the gaurds but their persuasion rolls fail. After that plan fails, they go back to their car to hatch a new plan rather than waiting for the event to start. The brilliant scheme they hatch involves stealing a car and crashing it into the port-o-potties to cause a distraction. Since there are so many other options that aren't stupid, I tried to steer them away from this by saying the cars were locked. Even though one of the characters was a rigger who could hack the cars remotely and control them from the van. This successfully deters them, but not without whining. ("Every single one?! Come on!") Since they cant use a car, their new plan is to just fire randomly into the port-o-potties / the people outside to try and cause a distraction. At this point there was nothing I could do to stop them, unless I just gave them a better solution (as far as I can tell). The one character ducks behind a car, and starts blasting away. One of the UAV drones that they never bothered to look for easily spots the shooter, and several guards from inside are dispatched since the door guards are unarmed. The other two guys in the group tried to sneak in with the tiny crowd that tries to take cover in the building, and I felt bad for them so I let them get away with it. Meanwhile this guy outside tries running away by circling around the building, only to encounter the other door guards on the other side of the warehouse. He tries to quick draw his pistol and shoot at them, but critically glitches and blasts himself in the leg. The door guards beat him unconscious. At this point we decided to take a break until tomorrow, and I said they could have another go at this scene. I have never game mastered before, but I read the adventure thoroughly and I think I handled it as well as I could have. What could I have done to keep them from doing something so stupid? I made a point of telling them people were walking in and out of the warehouse, and they were relatively drunk / high. Instead of simply pickpocketing the people, they opt to shoot a port-o-potty!! edit: Sorry this post is so long 
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Jul 20, 2009 07:52
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Dog Jones posted:I have never game mastered before, but I read the adventure thoroughly and I think I handled it as well as I could have. What could I have done to keep them from doing something so stupid? I made a point of telling them people were walking in and out of the warehouse, and they were relatively drunk / high. Instead of simply pickpocketing the people, they opt to shoot a port-o-potty!! Only thing you can do now is copy+paste this into the "Worst Experiences" thread.
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Jul 20, 2009 07:58
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You did a fine job, but your players aren't on ther same page. They are trying to run and gun. Shadowrun isn't about that, and you should just talk to them. Let them know how a run usually goes, research and backup plans. Don't talk down to them or anything, but just say "hey guys, let's review last week..." And help them a little. It's a different game than what most people are used to.
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Jul 20, 2009 08:13
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Aye, agreeing with the General and tendrils. You did a decent job as GM, but the party wanted to run and gun, not be sneaky bitches like proper shadowrunners.
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Jul 20, 2009 17:55
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One thing I've found about GMing Shadowrun is that the player group absolutely needs a leader who will utilize the skillsets of each other character to accomplish goals. If your group acts as a bunch of individuals instead of a well-oiled machine you'll quickly find people making ridiculous mistakes that harm not only themselves but their fellow 'runners. Shadowrun, more than any other RPG I can think of, requires a "lead." Without it players will get frustrated or simply turn to idiotic antics to entertain themselves in whatever situation you've created. I also heartly endorse the "recap" like The General mentioned. Especially since Shadowrun tends to include characters, information and events that occured far in the past giving people reminders of their role in the current story can really help push them into the correct narrative without obviously forcing them with heavy-handed plot devices. Our gaming group has been running Shadowrun since the release of 3rd Edition and contained it in the same game-world this entire time. Needless to say there's a lot of history (and mystery, what with the 10-year jump from the 2060s to 2070s). I'm super-pumped about the current Shadowrun story-arc "finale" we're currently undergoing. As of the last game our "heroes", along with Caimbuel Harlech and 200 Orc underground members wielding cheaply-purchased antique AK47s, are riding a spirit-driven flying platform out to Mount Rainier to confront a powerful horror that is performing a ritual at the top of the mountain and has driven the entire city of Seattle into chaos. The players may have completely enabled him by stealing various powerful artifacts for him (including the Spear of Destiny). Oh, the players are also bringing along an oricalcum-enriched tactical nuclear warhead. I do so love epic showdowns.
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Jul 20, 2009 20:34
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PierreTheMime posted:Oh, the players are also bringing along an oricalcum-enriched tactical nuclear warhead. I do so love epic showdowns. Hell yes. One of the PCs needs to ride that bad boy. The rigger's control hookups for the tac nuke fail at the last minute and they need to go to manual. Cue the yeehaw and the 40s music!
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Jul 20, 2009 23:39
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Yessod posted:Hell yes. One of the PCs needs to ride that bad boy. The rigger's control hookups for the tac nuke fail at the last minute and they need to go to manual. Cue the yeehaw and the 40s music! I'm not sure whether to laugh, cry, applaud, or kill myself in shame for for the smile this mental image has produced. I can just see some hard-loving-core 'runner RIDING A GODDAMNED NUKE into a Horror, waving a cowboy hat in the air above his head.
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Jul 21, 2009 00:51
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MohawkSatan posted:I'm not sure whether to laugh, cry, applaud, or kill myself in shame for for the smile this mental image has produced. I can just see some hard-loving-core 'runner RIDING A GODDAMNED NUKE into a Horror, waving a cowboy hat in the air above his head. The greatest part? The Satanist shaman has brokered a deal with a toxic fire spirit for this nuke to go off at the volcano. If it does? He blows the karma and initiates. If it doesn't? An angry toxic fire spirit is coming for him and is flammable, flammable body...
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Jul 21, 2009 01:06
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OK, so I'll be starting my own Shadowrun (4e) game soon with some goons and a few others. I have never played or DM'd before, and none of the players have played 4e, and only some have played 3rd (others are totally new). Any pitfalls or suggestions for making the new game go smoothly? I already had one veteran Shadowrun GM say, flat-out "Don't let anyone be a decker for at least a few sessions, just run the decker as an NPC hireling."
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Jul 21, 2009 07:12
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I'm almost in the same position as you, and I can attest that alot of the rules regarding the matrix are hella confusing. I've never GMed any game at all before, so I don't really have much to add that you don't already know. It will be really helpful to have a good feel of the way all the technology and magic works together, so that even if you don't know the rules well you can still have a sufficient amount of accuracy to the way things would actually play out.
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Jul 21, 2009 10:19
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tendrilsfor20 posted:OK, so I'll be starting my own Shadowrun (4e) game soon with some goons and a few others. I have never played or DM'd before, and none of the players have played 4e, and only some have played 3rd (others are totally new). If your veteran GM has only GM'd 3rd Edition, what they are saying is correct. The reason being is that decking back in 3rd functioned on a completely different time scale (almost instantaneous speed) and would literally have the entire rest of the team twiddling their thumbs waiting for you and the player to resolve whatever they were doing. If this process was complicated the other players could get frustrated by the amount of time they had to be in "time out" while the decker did their thing. Nowadays in 4th the Matrix is handled on a real-time basis that allows other players to participate in events that are occuring at the same time. If you're going to allow a hacker (they're not called deckers anymore  ), just be sure you're uptodate on all the Matrix rules so it doesn't get confusing for you. Trying to balance knowledge of the physical, magical and Matrix rulesets can be a little tough. If you have someone playing a hacker be sure you include portions of the mission that require their skills otherwise they'll feel left out, as they tend to be pretty specialized into that arena.
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Jul 21, 2009 12:04
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So, first time Shadowrun player here, which means I've started out with 4th Ed (although I did read a couple of the old Shadowrun novels many years ago and loved them to death, especially Black Madonna). I have yet to play, but there's a chance I can participate in Grey Hunters game, so here's hoping  I'm loving all of 4th ed, although I have two gripes, and I hope some of you veterans can help me come to grips: 1) The versatility. Between bionano borg clades, full-body cyborgs, a zillion kinds of hacker/technomancer tricks, magical traditions and semisentient paranormal animals, how do you plan a scenario, let alone a campaign? It would seem that there are so many ways to solve one challenge (and as many ways to counteract the runners attempt), that I can't see players survive for long in a place like, say, Seattle with a competent game master focusing on reality. I know the answer is to wing it and apply the groups you want to with the relevant themes and technologies/traditions you want to play, but it still seems like a really hard setting to ever fully learn. 2) Matrix rules. I've rolled up a samurai/hacker for the aforementioned game, and then went to town with "the wireless world" chapter, and gently caress was I stumped. How does a normal hacking action play out, and is it possible to integrate a hacker in a game without going totally nuts or getting bogged down? (and yeah, I know some of this is already covered. Sorry for asking again, but you are discussing it in a bit of an in-crowd manner for a n00b like me) Thanks in advance Shadowgoons! Tias fucked around with this message at 10:41 on Jul 24, 2009 |
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Jul 24, 2009 10:31
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For running ShadowRun and planning missions just think about it logically in the sense of the world. There are a lot of options and the first few times you run it, your players will poo poo allover everything and it will be a cake walk. Maybe you'll forget how awesome mages are, or a rigger will stuff a drone somewhere you didn't expect. Smaller companies won't have a mage on hand 24/7, but will have magic wards to prevent astral invasion and alarms to alert those who need to know about it. Larger companies could have a whole team of security riggers, mages and hackers on hand at all hours. Player survivability comes from the fact that all the corperations just don't care about the runners after the fact unless there's a good reason. Killing a lot of employees pisses them off or setting fire to entire wings. If the runners are doing their job right and not creating a scene that would appear on the news at 11, then they are usually free of corperate scruteny. Lonestar can be a hastle but again the corps won't report it if the runners are professional about it. Remember, the megacorps are all playing the same game, if they start cracking down on runners the runners won't help them. As for the Matrix, you're on your own. 
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Jul 24, 2009 10:48
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Aw poo poo Thanks, I guess it helps to keep things in perspective!
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Jul 24, 2009 10:50
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Seriously though (pardon the thread necromancy), but shouldn't we try to make a "4e Matrix use for dummies" of some kind? It's such an integral part of the game, there must be an easier way to process it - I bought Unwired, but I don't feel like I've become much wiser for it
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Jul 27, 2009 15:25
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Tias posted:Seriously though (pardon the thread necromancy), but shouldn't we try to make a "4e Matrix use for dummies" of some kind? It's such an integral part of the game, there must be an easier way to process it - I bought Unwired, but I don't feel like I've become much wiser for it Using the Matrix isn't a game, it's an artform. It's kinda bad when you have to give the GM the specifications on what defenses you should be encountering right now. It's even worse when you glitch and get your rear end handed to you by the security you just designed
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Jul 27, 2009 20:02
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If I get a chance this week, I'll write one up. Condensed rules and important parts. Until then I offer the condensed tl;dr version. gently caress it, play a street sam.
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Jul 28, 2009 06:42
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Yessod posted:One of the most awesome things in Shadowrun is the Personal Secretary (tm). You see, it's like a small personal computer, only it's also a phone, and it stores all your phone numbers, and get this, you can use it to take dictation and record conversations and even video and it FITS IN YOUR BRIEFCASE HOW COOL IS THAT Older editions of GURPS are the best, with tech levels capable of interstellar travel and teleportation, that have computers which use data cubes a couple inches on a side that can hold HOLY poo poo A GIGABYTE OF DATA.
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Jul 28, 2009 07:11
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h_double posted:Older editions of GURPS are the best, with tech levels capable of interstellar travel and teleportation, that have computers which use data cubes a couple inches on a side that can hold HOLY poo poo A GIGABYTE OF DATA.
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Jul 28, 2009 08:09
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Storage in SR4 is considered to be infinite, except when doing something like backing up the Gibson.
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Jul 28, 2009 08:55
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The General posted:Storage in SR4 is considered to be infinite, except when doing something like backing up the Gibson. Cyberpunk V3 does the same. It also got stuck in the same trap as that GURPS example and the current line of thinking is don't even try predicting memory sizes, just assume that there's enough to go around. There's a comment in one of the 2020 corp books of a watch that doubles as a data storage device with a whopping 64kb capacity.
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Jul 28, 2009 09:51
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Holy poo poo! I could like have a dozen text files on there!
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Jul 28, 2009 09:57
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The General posted:If I get a chance this week, I'll write one up. Condensed rules and important parts. Until then I offer the condensed tl;dr version. Yeah, that's my opinion as well, but I might be GM'ing a game, and I feel I owe it to players to let them deck, there's a lot of fun to miss out on. If it's really as hard as I think, perhaps we could work out some simplified house rules. Great man, please do it, it'd be a great help, and I'll assist as well as I can if Unwired mentions something we can use. Tias fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Jul 28, 2009 |
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Jul 28, 2009 12:25
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OK, couple things: 1) Correct me if I'm wrong, but chargen is IMMENSELY slanted away from Magic Users. There's a 15-point feat to buy, plus an entire extra attribute to buy up (probably to 6), and then each spell is 3 BP all by itself. Conversely, making a hacker (as I'm finding out as I build a hacker NPC for the group) is retardedly cheap, as every piece of good gear together is only like ¥30,000 (6 BP). The best Commlink possible, implanted with the best OS possible, is only ¥11,500 (~2 BP) and programs are a scant ¥1,500 for top-of-the-line stuff (0.1 BP, effectively) 2) Playing as a human is effectively "Hard Mode" as every metatype gets WAAAY more bonuses to base stats than their BP adjustments, and the "natural maximums" rarely come into play, or aren't severe and widespread enough. (The Ork only has two stats reduced below a human's maximum, and even those are only by one, but gets 5 stat bumps (50 BP) for just 20 BP actual cost, and low-light vision why not? 3) Knowledge Skills can eat a dick. No one has any idea how to buy them, I just said, "Pick two nouns, cram 'em together" but the examples really aren't good at delineating what's what and how to word them. Is "Fuchi Corp Practices" too vague? Is that a Street or Professional skill? Is "Yamatetsu Bioengineering" too specific? Ironically, the "fluff" ones are easy (one guy is a Snoop Dogg fan, so he took "Pre-Awakened Street Culture" and called it a day. 4) The way 4e is set up with half-page long italicized insets explaining how each step goes is great when you're reading through it to understand, but a pain when you're trying to actually do it, since it breaks up the flow. Finally, 5) I have an idea for the first game I want to run, and I'd like to run it by a seasoned 4e GM to see if it's too simple or if it's too convoluted, but two of the players are TGD goons, so if you could hit me up by PM or email so I could tell you and get some feedback that'd be great. EDIT: If it piques your interest, my planned first run involves pee-pee. Shrecknet fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Jul 28, 2009 |
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Jul 28, 2009 13:07
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So, are there any good fan-made resources online for things like gear, programs and the like?
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Jul 28, 2009 14:08
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tendrilsfor20 posted:OK, couple things: They're expensive, but they're also ludicrously effective and they don't need much after they have 5 magic, 4 in the spellcasting group and decent willpower/logic. Stunbolt at force 10 takes out pretty much any living thing that doesn't have counterspelling or a lot of magic resistance and the mage will rarely take much drain from it. And spirits are really versatile (and the spirit of man has the most broken power in the game: influence). Also hacker programs are up to 6000 for a rating 6. It's the common use programs that are cheapo. Hackers routinely end up spending 100,000 spacebucks on programs. They can do cool things but require a cooperative GM so be cooperative and you will be AWESOME! For example, stick autoguns around for them to hack. And enemy drones are actually good for hackers since they soon become friendly drones. Also try to include the hacking part as part of the run so the hacker doesn't do everything before the mission. Do this by using lots of wifi inhibiting wallpaper and have hackable targets with low signals (so they have to be close, Hacking it at the time instead of the night before). Have them hacking the metal detector at the same time as the players are smoothtalking the guards. It's death for the game if a hacker/astral projecting mage is off from the group for too long tendrilsfor20 posted:2) Playing as a human is effectively "Hard Mode" Yeah, pretty much. I've never really known a GM to play up the roleplay advantage of being human either (and I barely do myself). tendrilsfor20 posted:3) Knowledge Skills can eat a dick. Dunno, just work out a standard for your group. Maybe even come up with your list of own knowledges and let the players come up with things of similar breadth? tendrilsfor20 posted:The way 4e is set up with half-page long italicized insets explaining how each step goes is great when you're reading through it to understand, but a pain when you're trying to actually do it, since it breaks up the flow. Yep. Good luck with GMing your first Shadowrun. It's real tough
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Jul 28, 2009 14:09
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tendrilsfor20 posted:OK, couple things: I haven't played 4th, but ive been playing a full magician in 3rd for close to a year and I think making them less powerful is probably a good idea. Im not optimized at all and im still far and away the most useful player at the table. While other players and twiddling their thumbs waiting for their rigger / melee specialist / decker / stealth dude to make a useful contribution im summoning elementals, casting buffs, zapping bad guys, etc... Their pretty much the jack of all trades that are just as good or better then the specialists and tuning them down would make the game more fun for the non-magicians.
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Jul 28, 2009 14:13
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Man, Shadowrun, I love the setting but I hate the dice mechanic. The 4th edition seems to be an improvement, especially the new 20th edition they came out with laying out the rules more coherently, but I can't get over how many dice one has to roll for everything. I want to GM a campaign but how do you get around the dice quantities involved? I like the idea of taking every 4 dice in the pool and cashing them in for a success but what do you do when you still want to maintain a challenge? My players are used to Alternity, where you'd really only be rolling 2 dice max (d20 plus your +/- modifier). I get the feeling they'll balk at the horror of dumping six or more d6 on the table to accomplish something.
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Jul 28, 2009 21:19
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Snuffman posted:My players are used to Alternity, where you'd really only be rolling 2 dice max (d20 plus your +/- modifier). I get the feeling they'll balk at the horror of dumping six or more d6 on the table to accomplish something. Really? This seems like an odd complaint, the number of dice used?
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Jul 28, 2009 21:27
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For the love of god, never play Exalted. If your players balk at six dice they'll explode att he prospect of rolling 20-ish 10-siders at once.
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Jul 28, 2009 23:00
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tendrilsfor20 posted:2) Playing as a human is effectively "Hard Mode" as every metatype gets WAAAY more bonuses to base stats than their BP adjustments, and the "natural maximums" rarely come into play, or aren't severe and widespread enough. (The Ork only has two stats reduced below a human's maximum, and even those are only by one, but gets 5 stat bumps (50 BP) for just 20 BP actual cost, and low-light vision why not? Yeah, it's mostly up to the GM to maintain a balance, but considering issues of racial prejudice, and that Shadowrun is a game that's HUGELY about blending in and keeping a low profile, there's plenty of easy and interesting ways for the GM to put the screws to non-human metatypes.
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Jul 29, 2009 02:34
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