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Hi guys- great thread, made for some good reading and quality links. I've gotten through 12 of the 16 pages, but have to get going so I thought I'd get my question out there. I just got back a few months ago from doing the Peace Corps in Cambodia. I'm really interested in working for State as a career, with a focus on East Asia. Right now, I'm waiting to hear back on applications to teach in Japan with JET or in South Korea with a Fulbright ETA grant, in the hopes of getting a solid grasp of either language and at least two years more experience living in East Asia. Here's my situation- I had been thinking, very tentatively for now, that after I get back from teaching for x number of years, I'd go back to school to get a MA. Top schools I'm considering are SAIS and SIPA, but obviously this is all really far off in the future... what I'd like to know is, just how beneficial is a masters in IR for the Foreign Service? I know you talked about people from all sorts of backgrounds, JDs, MBAs, etc, and how anyone who's bright enough can get in, but do you think a degree like that is a significant help? Will that help someone get the edge if they're trying to get into the Political cone? Again, I can't stress how much this is all just speculation at this point, but I wonder whether it would be wiser to try for the Foreign Service straight out of JET/Fulbright and not go for the MA, or whether that's something I'm going to want under my belt (especially since I was a run of the mill English/History major/minor when I went to Georgetown, not School of Foreign Service). Any thoughts or opinions in general on this tentative career path?
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Dec 20, 2009 11:56
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Business of Ferrets posted:The Qualifications Evaluation Panel (QEP) seems to be the real sifter these days, and nobody is really sure what the QEP is looking for. As Pompous Rhombus said, it is safe to say that a good IR degree will not hurt you. On the other hand, don't confuse a means with the end. If getting into the FS is your priority, then start taking the test. You can do so every year it is offered (which should be every year for the foreseeable future) and there is no cost to you besides getting to the test site (the first test can be taken overseas, but the Oral Assessment is only offered in the States). Having an advanced degree will help you enter as a higher grade, which may or may not pay for the cost/opportunity cost of getting the degree. The idea wasn't an IR degree just for the sake of a better chance on getting into the FS. I'd like to have one so I'm more comfortable with the field and if I ultimately decide FS isn't for me, there are still a good number of other possibilities available; I worked for a foreign policy think tank over the summer and found it a fascinating experience, so something like that is always possible. quote:
Yeah- this is mostly how I was looking at it. I know Korean is a language already in demand, but Japan is the one that really interests me after I spent a few weeks there, and I've already been hacking away at the Rosetta Stone and Pimsleur programs and I like the language. Still very much a beginner, but if I get accepted into JET I'll be turning up the heat on that. quote:Keep in mind that getting assigned to Seoul is a rough way to start in the Foreign Service because its low hardship differential and one-post language status basically mean that you get last choice for your second assignment (this only applies to the first and second tour; after that there is more flexibility). If you have a Japan fixation, you might want to spend time learning that language; it is exceedingly difficult to break into the Chrysanthemum Club (the FS Japan clique) unless you already know Japanese. So, just some things to think about. This kind of advice is precisely why I posted. Thank you so much. My interest is East Asia in general, so while Northeast Asia is obviously the region where all the big action is happening (DPRK, U.S.-Japan alliance, everything China, etc.) and while ultimately I'd prefer to be focusing there later in my career, I think there's a lot going on with the Philippines, Singapore, Malaysia, ASEAN, etc. That was my focus at the think tank over the summer actually. Can you think of any SEA posts like Kuala Lumpur, Ho Chi Minh City, or Vientiane or something that are decent first post choices which provide a shot at a better 2nd post?
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Dec 20, 2009 21:10
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Vilerat posted:Ugghhh. It's ALL who you know and how you lobby. If you get post to want you then you are almost guaranteed to get the assignment. If bureau wants you in that position but post wants somebody else, somebody else will get that job and you'll be left with a rep who offers condolences and shrugged shoulders. The whole assignment system is really unbalanced and designed to encourage networking and handshakes. I've been hearing a lot along these lines, both in this thread and ESPECIALLY from family and friends who have contact with folks in the FS. Is this internal politicking something that you find really affects your enjoyment of the job? An old boss told me that if you make a single enemy with a higher-up at an embassy- even someone who just take a dislike to you for no discernible reason- your chances of doing great things absolutely plummet since it's all based on recommendations and personal evaluations. He said the benefits of working an amazing job like FS were outweighed by all the kow-towing and bootlicking that was necessary. Do you know anyone who's had something like this happen to them? Would you say that's an accurate assessment or is it being unfair? Ultimately it doesn't worry me overmuch because I can get along just fine in a networking-heavy environment, but I'd like to know how much of his criticism is legitimate and how much is exaggerated.
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Dec 21, 2009 06:02
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Yeah, I'm not really seeing anything on the link about what exactly the Career Entry Program entails. Is it just a twice-yearly hiring period to start in those various areas?
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Jan 14, 2010 06:12
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edit- Figured out where I should actually post this so I'm going to post it there. But if there isn't too much bleedover between the two threads, do you guys have any insight on my questions? ---- Used to read this thread and then lost track of it, and I'm not up to reading 60+ pages to catch up... hope I'm not repeating anything too common. I know you're all mostly FSOs in here and thus might not be able to help but I was curious about positions working with State based in the US. I've been abroad a good deal of my 20s (2 years of Peace Corps and just shy of 2 years in Japan now) and though I'm interested in the DoS I ultimately think I would not want to go the FSO route. Specifically, my Country Director in the Peace Corps told me during my exit interview that he thought the Foreign Service wouldn't fit well with me because there is a lot of rear end-kissing and kowtowing (is this true?) and I'd chafe too much. I'm also not thrilled at the idea of having little control over post assignments. However, I have a serious interest in foreign policy and would ultimately like to take part in helping to shape it, so that's what I'm gunning for. Anyway my point is mostly- 1) Was my CD right, about how much brownnosing you've got to do? I couldn't tell if he just had an axe to grind or what. 2) Do you guys know much about working stateside for State? I'd love to work with East Asian and Pacific Affairs specifically, but mostly anything in security would be great... 3) The grad school question. A lot of people I know went to get an MA in IR and are looking into various policy positions in DC. If I were to go the FSO route I don't think I'd bother with grad school because I think my degree+international experience and a stint working with a security thinktank in DC would be more important than a degree that most other applicants could have, but if I'm hoping to work based in D.C. do you think it'd make sense to take the two years (and debt) for an MA? Like I said, I know this isn't really the right place for it but I haven't seen threads for anything closer to what I'm interested in, and since it dovetails with the FSO somewhat I hoped you guys might have some insight. CronoGamer fucked around with this message at 11:16 on May 18, 2012 |
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May 18, 2012 10:36
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TCD posted:Domestic assignments are a mix of Civil Service and FS. Meaning the responsibilities of domestic assignments are a mix of the two? Or that half the people working domestic are civil servants, and the others are FS on home rotations?
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May 18, 2012 13:20
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mtreecorner posted:In my personal opinion, if you want to eventually help shape policy... a grad degree would be useful beyond JUST getting a job. This is largely how I've been viewing it, but didn't want to rush into it if it wasn't necessary and thought I'd ask around. I wouldn't necessarily need to go into the DoS right after getting a grad degree- working in DC showed me how often people drift around from State to consulting firm to thinktank and back into State depending on the administration- but it's something toward which I'd ultimately like to work. Thanks for the advice! (missing my NCE from the year after Peace Corps pretty badly right now though...  )
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May 18, 2012 16:01
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Thank you for all the replies. It's been extremely helpful- I was entirely unfamiliar with the PMF program before and that's certainly something I'll look into, now.Business of Ferrets posted:Maybe he has felt tension with State folks in embassies. Just as likely is that he tried to become an FSO, but failed. The FS has a lot of RPCVs, and they do just as well as the rest of the general population. That was sort of the impression I'd gotten, too. I knew that there was a lot of crossover with RPCVs so thought it odd, and I knew he'd told others from my group that there'd be too much rear end-kissing so I knew the comment wasn't directed at me personally. I've got an RPCV friend in Mumbai now and he seems to be doing well. quote:If you can get hired as an FSO without doing the grad degree, then do so. A couple years of work as an FSO is going to be more educational and professionally relevant than the best IR grad programs. That said, it seems like a Masters is pretty much the price of admission to any decent entry-level policy work (including NGOs, think tanks, gov, private sector) in Washington, D.C. Though I don't know for sure, I would judge relevant work experience to be more valuable than graduate education, if you have to choose between the two. This track makes sense to me, and if I were a little younger I think it'd be the clear answer, but I'm in my late 20s and not sure I'd want to take the time out that 2-3 tours would take before getting started at home. I don't have my heart set on State necessarily- private sector, thinktank, even UN work all hold a lot of interest for me as well. In that light, it seems like the degree makes more sense with a possibility of moving into CS in some capacity later, right? Skandiaavity posted:The whole 'shaping foreign policy' is going to happen over your head. It's really very complex. Thanks for this! When I worked with the think tank in DC I became familiar with Kurt Campbell and his background, and I'm also familiar with a few of the other people who made it up there in State or in the DoD, but I didn't know about Ambassador Hill. But you (and the other posters) have given me a good deal to mull over, so thanks a ton.
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May 19, 2012 06:59
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Oh my god. The poor guy. And his family...Skandiaavity posted:
Seriously. How is what he's doing any different from shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater? It's monstrous. I flagged the video to get pulled off of youtube and hopefully they'll do so, but clearly the damage has been done... R.I.P., Vilerat.
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Sep 12, 2012 07:07
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Not the place for a long discussion about it, but it seems to me like it falls under the hate speech portion of the community guidelines, since it is most definitely demeaning to Muslims. But I'm sure some will find ways to champion it, and it won't get pulled down. The same goes for the movie that most other sources are attributing the violence to, the one made by the guy in California and the Egyptian dude actually depicting Mohammed and making him out to be a buffoon. Reading reports now that it wasn't just Vilerat; 3 other staff members, including the Ambassador himself. Christ.
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Sep 12, 2012 11:54
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Skandiaavity, thanks for sharing. For those of us not in the Foreign Service but with a strong interest in it, your posts here and in the remembrance thread have been really informative and helpful in following things. Much appreciated.
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Sep 15, 2012 09:00
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Giodo! posted:I don't know how many civil servants post in this thread, but if anyone is ever curious about doing State Department work in DC I'd be happy to answer as best as I can. Yes! I had been asking questions about that earlier but there were no CS folks, only FS, and the general US Gov't jobs megathread wasn't really helpful. What do you do? How did you get into it and for how long have you been with State? I'm applying to grad schools this year for entry in Fall 2013 for a degree in either Int'l Relations or Int'l Security, and DoS is one of my top choices for employers after. Do you/most of your coworkers have a master's? What's hiring like? Feel free to answer any or none of those questions, it's just an area about which I'm very curious to hear from people on the inside.
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Sep 17, 2012 04:46
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Diplomaticus posted:Different brand than we use. Ours are longer and less "fat" on each flag. You can see mine in these photos here: http://imgur.com/a/VTaS1 Haha, man, embassy guys really do have a certain look to them. When I was in the Peace Corps we could spot U.S. Embassy personnel from a mile away. I don't know what it is exactly, but there's definitely a type. You definitely look the part (and that's not a bad thing!)
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Oct 8, 2012 15:28
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I imagine the FSO folks have already gotten this video sent around, but for those who haven't seen it, here's a cool sort of slice-of-life "What is it to be in the Foreign Service?" video the State Dept put out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zdh2oZ6NSgY Skandiaavity posted:
Aren't you in SE Asia right now? You can find WAY crazier stuff than that there. This is one a friend took in Laos, which I drank- snake, scorpion and centipede wine. It's about as bad as you might expect it to be... 
CronoGamer fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Jan 12, 2013 |
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Jan 12, 2013 18:06
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An interesting opinion on security clearances from a former boss of mine. I haven't had to go through the process of getting one yet but I thought some of you might have some thoughts or anecdotes similar to his... http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...106b_story.html
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Feb 21, 2013 07:20
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Skandiaavity, you're still working in Manila, right? Sorry, I've been out of the thread for a few months... I applied for the summer student internship program to work in the Pol-Mil section at the embassy. I just finished a course in grad school working on a policy process simulation where we had to come up with recommendations for the NSC on how to handle the East and South China Sea territorial disputes and basically the big mess China has been creating. I drew the part of researching and writing about the Philippines back in October, and it was way more engaging than I'd imagined it would be-- I got really into the course and the subject matter and I'm really holding out hope to get a slot working with Pol-Mil for the summer. Do you know anyone in that section? Do you know how many spots they have for internships? Wondering what my chances are at this point...
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Dec 10, 2013 07:29
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Skandiaavity posted:yes & no & yes; I am still working in Manila but I'm not currently there. I'm familiar with most of the Political section there; Pol-Mil is pretty small. The only other two Student Interns I have known there loved it because the Philippines is a pretty welcoming place, but the one in Political only worked as an assist (think an aide for an entry-level FSO). The new Ambassador is strict on things like that (the whole "SCS dispute" has a crapload of Real World Consenquences), so I am not entirely sure they'll let you jump into the foray like that. Sorry, I should've mentioned-- I sent in the application at the end of October, and the reason I brought it up now was because I got an email from one of the political officers in Manila asking for follow-up and we're hoping to schedule a Skype interview, so I took it as a good sign that I'd be able to work with them. Totally understood that it's not your area though and that you can't really speak to any of that. I also appreciate the head-up on the Ambassador being strict about things and there being a chance of my not being able to work on SCS-specific issues... I'm hoping that the US-Philippines security arrangement in general will be a broad enough area that they'll allow me to get my feet wet there though. I think post-Haiyan, and with the realization of how much investment they need to make in the internal capabilities of the AFP insofar as humanitarian aid/disaster relief, the U.S.' role in helping with external defense will become more apparent than usual and combined with the ongoing talks over increasing troop rotational presence in Subic Bay etc., it'd be a really interesting place to work for a summer. If I'm fortunate enough to get the spot and you're still there I'd love to goon it up, first round on me.
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Dec 10, 2013 21:55
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Thank you both! I hope that by expressing such a strong interest in one particular potential (or perhaps not-so-feasible) aspect of the job, I didn't end up pigeon-holing myself and making them think I'd be uninterested in working on other issues in the political section. I'm a SE Asia studies concentrator in grad school so any work in the Embassy would be great for me, really; it's just that my personal focus tends towards international security issues so I hope I'd get a good amount of exposure to that. I guess we'll see how it goes if I get a chance to speak to anyone out there.
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Dec 11, 2013 00:19
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That's definitely what I'm intending to do (make it clear I'm interested, that is... not sulk and do a bad job). Thanks for the insight!
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Dec 11, 2013 01:24
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Nope! Initials MC, if that means anything... I told them pretty much any time before lunch, Manila time. I'm a late night person anyway so it's easier to stay up than to get up at some random hour of the night to talk. He wrote back and thanked me for my written answers, so we'll see if a phone interview even happens. Thanks to all for the words of wisdom, though!
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Dec 11, 2013 23:54
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Skandiaavity posted:ah, yes. I know him, but not very well. Different crowds. Landed the (conditional) offer. Looking forward to working there! I don't think I have much to worry about in terms of a security clearance, in part from reading this thread, so I'm pretty eager to get out there. Thanks for the advice all!
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Dec 13, 2013 20:02
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Ramms+ein posted:Did anyone else apply for a summer internship back in Nov. with the State Dept. and hear anything back yet? I applied for Morocco and still haven't heard anything. The student ones that were due on November 1st, yeah? I heard back from Manila in mid-December...
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Jan 5, 2014 01:40
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Quick question about the SF-86/security clearance paperwork. I'm about to submit mine for my summer internship. I seem to remember, way way way back in the early days of this thread, some people talking about making sure to save your information because of possibly needing to submit it again for future clearances (or higher level ones). Is there a specific way of saving it electronically, besides saving the PDF it displays before you submit? Were you guys talking about saving it just to have all of the info gathered together, or saving it in a way that I won't have to input it all over again?
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Feb 10, 2014 02:58
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Gravel Gravy posted:If it's through eQIP I am pretty sure it saves all of that for you, letting you update it later for future clearances, and gives you the option for PDF at the end. But it is a good idea to keep it just for your records and in case you have to fill out another SF-86 for a different department. 2/3 of my clearances hit snags all because I forgot certain details that I filled in on an earlier one, but neglected for another, as well as leaving stuff out in later ones that I had only just mentioned under polygraph. Okay, that's what I was figuring/hoping. Thanks! SF-86, done and dusted! And got my prints taken last week, soooo... now the waiting game begins! Haha.
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Feb 10, 2014 03:28
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Tyro posted:
Just turned up 2 hour delay tomorrow.
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Mar 4, 2014 04:00
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The Mantis posted:
I'm in the same boat! Interviewed two weeks ago, now just playing the waiting game... Meanwhile, I have a friend who submitted her docs the second week of February, had her interview about ten days later, and had her interim clearance by March 1st. SO MAD.
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Mar 30, 2014 15:17
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The Mantis-- did you hear back from them yet? And how long had it been since you completed your paperwork and your interview before you sent that email? My interview was in mid-March, so I'm curious, but don't want to be pushy or anything yet...
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Apr 2, 2014 16:14
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Business of Ferrets posted:If I remember correctly, the forms say seven years but the investigators have you go back ten. Yup. Address and jobs, going back 10 years (or until you were 18, whichever is less).
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Apr 7, 2014 16:26
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zzonkmiles posted:Ugh, that sucks. I remember filling out the SF-86 forms and they only wanted 7 years of addresses and jobs. I hope that's changed, but I guess it hasn't. Either way, I'll be prepared if (or rather, when) I make it back to that stage. It's probably okay though simply because I've been hearing that only about half or 1/3 of the people on the register (these days) are actually getting called to the A-100 before timing off the register. But I appreciate the heads up anyway. Nah, I did my SF-86 just this January and while the forms say 7 years, we received a supplemental instruction sheet that said to do residences back as far as 10 years ago. Jobs I think went back 10 years too, though foreign travel was just 7 IIRC. Just make sure you have all the info gathered together and provide them with the most exact info that you can (although don't be afraid to tell them you just can't remember sometimes). I do like CT, though I don't game nearly as much as I'd like anymore. But that's not because I'm an FSO; I'm in grad school right now for IR, ultimately hoping to work for the State Dept but likely in the civil service. Maybe DoD instead. But my lack of game time is because of papers and readings and the like. The Mantis-- Any word? I just heard back from them and got my clearance this morning. SO relieved, I'd heard obnoxious stories of applicants not getting their clearances until days before (or even after) their positions were supposed to start. Now to start looking into airfare...
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Apr 10, 2014 04:27
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No no, I'm not FS- I'm doing the Student Internship program since I'm in grad school right now. Only had to get Secret clearance; do FS folks have to get S or TS? I did Peace Corps, worked in Japan for 3 years, and have been to dozens of countries all over the place, so I was actually surprised by how quickly they got back to me.
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Apr 10, 2014 07:18
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Slaan posted:We are supposed to spend the last three months sitting in our village doing nothing because... well, nobody is sure why. BUILDING RELATIONSHIPS IS A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF SECOND AND THIRD GOAL ACTIVITIES and YOU WON'T KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE UNTIL YOU'VE LEFT and GOD DAMMIT WE'RE GOING TO FORCE-FEED YOU WITH YOUR SITE MEMORIES TO ENSURE NOSTALGIA WHEN YOU COS Mostly in that order, I think. Yeah it was obnoxious. e: Congrats, Mantis!!
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May 6, 2014 21:55
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I've been remiss in coming back to this thread; I know I promised Skandiaavity I'd come back in with an update when I got out to post. They put me (and several other interns) up at seafront. Loving it, and quite enjoying embassy work so far at least. My section have all been really welcoming, which was better than I had hoped.
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Jun 18, 2014 15:11
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Doing the student internship at the embassy here has been bar none the best internship I've ever done and has already been immensely rewarding (and I'm not quite halfway through yet). The people are (with only a few exceptions) awesome, helpful, and seriously knowledgeable about their fields, it's a great environment to work in. I had already decided FSO life isn't for me because I want to raise my family in the states, but I really enjoy the Foreign Service and if the people at this post are representative of the types in most other embassies I really look forward to continuing to work with them if I end up with State in another capacity. Not trying to be all weird and flattering, but you guys are pretty drat cool.
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Jul 9, 2014 15:24
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Skandiaavity-- great to finally ACTUALLY meet you tonight. I'll confess once or twice I had thought you were the same person I'd been talking to on the internet, but didn't know how to broach the awkward "Hey, do I know you from Something Awful?" question... glad you were the one to broach it, haha. Hope you had fun tonight too, though the food didn't totally live up to my best memories of that city... oh well.
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Aug 11, 2014 13:43
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Stolennosferatu posted:I know I ask a lot of questions here, but here's one more. For the love of god specify which section of the embassy you want to work in and why (and have a good reason for it, I guess). I just finished my internship last month, the two interns who didn't specify where they wanted to go ended up in Consular, where they took fingerprints for 4 hours a day most of the summer and pretty much hated it. The others had more direction in their applications and we all got to have an amazing experience.
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Sep 2, 2014 06:40
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Skandiaavity posted:say, a coworker wanted to know - who was the cute brunette? Never got her name, but she always appeared smiling in the caf and miserable in cons. (also you got a shout out, but after you left.) Initials were S.S. She was an undergrad. Not sure how much more I should say on the forums? I'll fill you in when you're back here in DC if you're still curious. We... didn't get along all that well. Intern housing makes those kinda things tough, especially with a 9-10 year age gap between some residents. What do you mean a shout out?
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Sep 3, 2014 04:50
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zzonkmiles posted:Seems like Consular gets a bad rap even among prospective FSOs. Why is that? Sounds like Consular is the redheaded left-handed stepchild of the Foreign Service or something. This is actually the cone that I'm most interested in and probably best suited for. But it seems like I might be missing something here. What gives? Sorry, this was in response to my earlier post and I completely overlooked it. I didn't mean to make it sound as though no one wants to do Consular work ever. I wouldn't want to do Consular, but I also don't think I'd want to do Econ, just not my thing. But there are some people for whom Consular is immensely satisfying and interesting. As I understand it (because I am not an FSO, just worked with a lot of them), CONS can give you a much more personal view of the country and its inhabitants than anyone in the other cones will ever have because of how many of them you meet and talk to while doing interviews. An FSO who'd done CONS at a previous post told me that he knew a week or two before anyone in POL or ECON that a major factory had shut down because he saw a lot of its workers coming to the Embassy looking for visas, well before it was publicly announced. The reason I was so full of warning in the other post was because Consular often has a good deal of drudge work related to the processing of visas, and if you're doing an internship, you're not allowed to do a lot of the interesting stuff, so (as far as this embassy was concerned) you end up doing all the boring stuff. Absolutely not exaggerating when I say they were scanning people's fingerprints into a machine for 4 hours a day. So, if you're interested in Consular, that's awesome and you shouldn't be concerned about it because people have fulfilling careers in it and you're making a difference in people's lives every day. I was just saying that if you're NOT particularly interested in Consular, do your best not to get an internship in Consular, because it will probably get boring fast. But please remember this is based purely off of one summer at one post. Entirely anecdotal.
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Sep 3, 2014 16:25
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Just a heads-up to anyone lurking this thread who may be considering the DoS Student Internship program to try and work in an Embassy over Summer 2015-- the application deadline was moved up by two weeks this year. Usually it's end of October/early November, as I understand it, but this year the deadline is October 17th so you've only got a month to hop on USAJobs and get things figured out.
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Sep 18, 2014 22:22
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AgentSythe posted:Same question, but intel. I think I read in this thread that working for any intelligence agency disqualifies you from working Foreign Service because State wants to make sure people don't think their diplomats are spies? Does it matter which agency you worked for? State has its own bureau within the intelligence community, so this would be a strange restriction. Like Homie S said, you're probably thinking of the ban on joining the Peace Corps after work in intel.
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Mar 26, 2015 21:57
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the_chavi posted:Like State, but more bureaucratic. Can you elaborate a little more on what OTI does? I know their mission statement and all that but was curious about what a program manager might be doing on a regular basis.
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Jul 28, 2015 19:41
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