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Wolfsbane
Jul 29, 2009

What time is it, Eccles?

kefkafloyd posted:

There's two rail lines in Middletown, one is the Providence and Worcester (which crosses the old swing bridge a little bit up the road) which heads east-west to Portland and to Pratt & Whitney and still sees active service. The other is the Valley line, which is the one depicted in the image. The track goes from Hartford to Old Saybrook but there are considerable parts out-of-service in the area of Middletown. The Valley line excursions don't go up to MIddletown and neither do the freights. But it is landbanked by the state, so theoretically there could be more demand there... but I doubt it.

I've never seen a rail line cross a rotary at-grade before so I have no idea what they would do.

Probably just shut down the whole thing while a train is passing. If the line is only used occasionally I don't imagine it would be a huge problem.

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wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/00067/000678.pdf

quote:

A gated rail crossing through the center of a roundabout can be accommodated in two ways. The first method is to prevent all vehicular traffic from entering the roundabout. The second method is to prevent traffic from crossing the tracks while still allowing some movements to occur. This latter method will have lower delays and queues, but it may be more confusing and less safe.

Basically the guidelines state the obvious. One way is safer, the other allows non-conflicting traffic to flow as long as those waiting for the train don't clog everything up anyways.

Of the 16 possible input/output combinations three would remain usable while a train is crossing with that layout. The question would be "is the increased traffic flow on those three paths worth the potential for idiocy from those who want to take a blocked path?"

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

In some places the rail use is so infrequent that on the rare once a month or less sort of usage comes up they just get some flag people out like it's a construction area and manually hold up traffic while the train goes by. Just treat it like a very temporary road closure.

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

Baronjutter posted:

In some places the rail use is so infrequent that on the rare once a month or less sort of usage comes up they just get some flag people out like it's a construction area and manually hold up traffic while the train goes by. Just treat it like a very temporary road closure.

Yeah, looking at Street View it seems this is probably going to be the case if the rail is even left in place. As it stands there are only crossbucks, the nearby images range from 2009 to 2016 and in none of them does the line look like it's being actively used or even really maintained beyond some minimum standard. In what seems to be the latest images the rails to the south have been covered up with dirt and gravel to make a staging area for construction equipment, and following the rail further in that direction it eventually hits a boat storage facility where the rails are clearly buried under their parking lot.

Knowing that now I'd hope they're just planning to get rid of the rail crossing altogether. The crossing being offset within the roundabout seems like it would be especially lovely to motorcycles.

drunkill
Sep 25, 2007

me @ ur posting
Fallen Rib
Railways and roundabouts hey?

No lights, but the gates stop the flow of traffic anyway. Second busiest trainline in the city, so lots of train movements. Surprisingly not on the 50 level crossings to go by 2018, although a couple 'nearby' are.

https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-37.9447394,145.0393539,139m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

New St in Brighton. A wealthy area so they don't want loud works to remove it, plus they'd only want it trenched not rail over road, which is a little complex because this is a few hundred meters from the beach in a low lying and sandy soil area.
Not the busiest trainline so it isn't really a huge problem.

https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-37.9194889,144.9936126,713m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en


Welcome to you are doom. Haymarket roundabout, or sometimes known as the roundabout of death. More like a traffic circle thesedays now since they added traffic lights to it. Although it has trams passing through it not trains, still though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haymarket_roundabout
One of the northern routes into the CBD, right next to the Hospital and University precincts and also next to a very popular and busy Queen Victoria Market. Site of a new metro underground station over the next decade, so a lot of works in the area for that.

https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-37.8012586,144.9575533,154m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en


And while we're here, three timelapse videos of the level crossings works since friday until earlier today. Yesterday they said 160,000m3 had been shifted of about 250,000m3:
Ormond- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH_az0gsJ00

McKinnon - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuG0-UuPz0E

Bentleigh - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxlW5Q443iM

drunkill fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Jun 30, 2016

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon

kefkafloyd posted:

There's two rail lines in Middletown, one is the Providence and Worcester (which crosses the old swing bridge a little bit up the road) which heads east-west to Portland and to Pratt & Whitney and still sees active service. The other is the Valley line, which is the one depicted in the image. The track goes from Hartford to Old Saybrook but there are considerable parts out-of-service in the area of Middletown.

The Providence/Worchester across the bridge hasn't seen active service in a very very long time. The tracks actually deadends on the portland side at a hotdog stand.

kefkafloyd
Jun 8, 2006

What really knocked me out
Was her cheap sunglasses

M_Gargantua posted:

The Providence/Worchester across the bridge hasn't seen active service in a very very long time. The tracks actually deadends on the portland side at a hotdog stand.

A few years ago the last time I checked in on the bridge's status there were customers in Portland (the line stopped there), but they must be done then. Thanks.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

M_Gargantua posted:

The Providence/Worchester across the bridge hasn't seen active service in a very very long time. The tracks actually deadends on the portland side at a hotdog stand.

I was wondering about that. I row on the river, under the bridges, and the rail one has always looked abandoned.

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon

kefkafloyd posted:

A few years ago the last time I checked in on the bridge's status there were customers in Portland (the line stopped there), but they must be done then. Thanks.

I think there are two warehouses that still have physical access to the Portland side of the tracks, but the tiny amount of rail is horribly maintained. They may still be listed on the books as customers but I can't recall ever seeing a train cross the bridge.

Gatac
Apr 22, 2008

Fifty Cent's next biopic.
Here's a question from a naive European: I'm sure you guys have heard of the fatal collision involving a Tesla S using Auto-Pilot crashing into a truck trailer. The particulars of the Auto-Pilot system don't really interest me here, what drew my attention was the geometry of the crash site. From what I understand, it took place on a highway with an unsignalled intersection on it, like this:



This design seems incredibly unsafe to me, given that it involves unprotected left turns across lanes being driven on at highway speeds. But as per the image source, it's apparently in the MUTCD, so...this is considered kosher? Or is this a legacy design that's only included for reference and no longer being built?

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Looks like a lot of distance to cover in a quick left turn. I guess they only use these on highways with lighter traffic. I can imagine siting in one of those suicide lanes waiting for 5+ min for an opening and eventually lowering your standards to the point that there's an accident. Also people turning into oncoming traffic. If youre going straight through do you stop half way and cross it in two steps?

Bad Munki
Nov 4, 2008

We're all mad here.


We have those all over in the US.

Baronjutter posted:

Looks like a lot of distance to cover in a quick left turn. I guess they only use these on highways with lighter traffic.
Correct.

quote:

I can imagine siting in one of those suicide lanes waiting for 5+ min for an opening and eventually lowering your standards to the point that there's an accident.
Also correct, but again, it's usually light enough traffic that it's not a problem.

quote:

Also people turning into oncoming traffic. If youre going straight through do you stop half way and cross it in two steps?
Also yes, the center portion is plenty wide enough that you can sit there between while you try to get across. Whether or not that's the intended use, that's how it works in practice.

At least in the rural US.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Gatac posted:

Here's a question from a naive European: I'm sure you guys have heard of the fatal collision involving a Tesla S using Auto-Pilot crashing into a truck trailer. The particulars of the Auto-Pilot system don't really interest me here, what drew my attention was the geometry of the crash site. From what I understand, it took place on a highway with an unsignalled intersection on it, like this:



This design seems incredibly unsafe to me, given that it involves unprotected left turns across lanes being driven on at highway speeds. But as per the image source, it's apparently in the MUTCD, so...this is considered kosher? Or is this a legacy design that's only included for reference and no longer being built?

I mean it's a surface highway in the middle of a rural area, what other design would you use? You'll find them all over the place, and well, usually people notice a huge old tractor-trailer crossing in front of them.

Baronjutter posted:

Looks like a lot of distance to cover in a quick left turn.

Two lanes is a lot of distance? Like 30 feet tops, that's a lot of distance to you?

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

fishmech posted:

Two lanes is a lot of distance? Like 30 feet tops, that's a lot of distance to you?

Yeah, I'm not used to making uncontrolled lefts crossing more than 1 lane. Cars can get hidden behind other vehicles depending on your viewing angle, the few times I've had to do it it felt quite stressful and dangerous. I'm sure like any driving skill you'd get used to it after a while. But my guess is that 2 lane uncontrolled lefts have a much higher accident rate than trying to only cross 1 lane.

NihilismNow
Aug 31, 2003

fishmech posted:

I mean it's a surface highway in the middle of a rural area, what other design would you use? You'll find them all over the place, and well, usually people notice a huge old tractor-trailer crossing in front of them.

Rural highways don't have 2 lanes here. They have 1 lane going each way without a median. Then they would drop a roundabout there and a 50 kph speed limit for the roundabout (and increase again to 80/100 kph after the roundabout). If it has more than 1 lane each way it has controlled intersections.

Of course rural highways with 1 lane each way no median means you are crossing into the lane for oncoming traffic to pass, so clearly this is not a ideal situation (recently they keep limiting where you are allowed to pass effectively limiting the top speed to the slowest vehicle on the road).

NihilismNow fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Jul 2, 2016

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'
Most of the US is empty two lane rural highways where you still need to pass trucks and farm equipment, so two lanes it is.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."
They use this design in Europe England as well in rural areas. I know this because a friend of mine was T-boned outside of York near by cousin's house at one. (To the UK's credit, they have since gotten rid of that particular intersection.)

Peanut President
Nov 5, 2008



Do you guys even know what "rural" means? In the rural US we're lucky if the roads are even paved. Regarding that particular intersection: I've seen it before but it was signaled, and it was where a us highway crosses a state road.


All 4 ways have stop lights and north and south lanes have protected turns.

Peanut President fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Jul 3, 2016

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Peanut President posted:

Do you guys even know what "rural" means? In the rural US we're lucky if the roads are even paved.

The entire county the guy crashed in has a population of 40,000, that poo poo's rural. 36 people per square mile ain't urban or even suburban.

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003
I think I'd have to drive hundreds, if not a thousand kms to reach a regions or something that sparsely populated :aaa:

Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012

Koesj posted:

I think I'd have to drive hundreds, if not a thousand kms to reach a regions or something that sparsely populated :aaa:

Nah, you can probably get there in less than 200 km. Just drive into the North Sea.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

This is how the dutch will reclaim more of the sea. Eventually the need for more reclaimed land will trigger and all true dutch will start their instinctual migration to the sea, eventually their cars forming the foundation of some fairly crappy new farm towns.

will_colorado
Jun 30, 2007

Koesj posted:

I think I'd have to drive hundreds, if not a thousand kms to reach a regions or something that sparsely populated :aaa:
The majority of the western US has vast swaths of farms, ranches, and empty space.

The entire state of Wyoming has a population of less than 590,000 in just under 100,000 square miles.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

will_colorado posted:

The majority of the western US has vast swaths of farms, ranches, and empty space.

The entire state of Wyoming has a population of less than 590,000 in just under 100,000 square miles.

The US as a whole has a population density of 85.4/sq. mile, putting it about even with Zimbabwe.

European countries with lower densities:
Latvia
Estonia
Sweden
Finland
Norway
Russia

NihilismNow
Aug 31, 2003

Peanut President posted:

Do you guys even know what "rural" means? In the rural US we're lucky if the roads are even paved.

I was thinking of a region with 200 people per square kilometer so 500 per square mile.
In hindsight, i do not know what rural is.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Pfft you people think that's rural? Try antarctica.

Bad Munki
Nov 4, 2008

We're all mad here.


Baronjutter posted:

Pfft you people think that's rural? Try antarctica.

Sure, the low population density looks great on paper, but then you get there and it's nothing but tourists, they practically run the place, not a single local to be found.

Eskaton
Aug 13, 2014
So what do DOTs look for in student positions? I got an interview coming up with the Michigan DOT and I don't know what say other than "I really like transportation". It's in the Office of Rail at that.

I thought private companies do almost all the stuff in rail. Would this be regulatory or Amtrak stuff?

drunkill
Sep 25, 2007

me @ ur posting
Fallen Rib
This is how a lot of Freeway entrances for local/rural roads are here in Victoria, Australia. A bit of room in the middle to continue straight or join the far side:

[Fun Fact: this is 7km East of Nar-Nar Goon: https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-38.0755839,145.6735123,663m/data=!3m1!1e3 ]

And 10km East of those two is a new full interchange being built because it is next to a town and that N-S road (Sand Road) seems to have a few trucks on it trying to cross the freeway.
They installed the support beams to the overpass on the weekend, or very recently given this video was posted today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2VWDUAG_oY

You can see the early works on googlemaps, so this project must have taken while. Two temporary crossing areas have been built and will become the on/off ramps for the new interchange once complete:
https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-38.1129176,145.7627665,3710m/data=!3m1!1e3


Vicroads project page: https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/planning-and-projects/regional-road-projects/princes-freeway-east--sand-road-interchange

quote:

http://thegazette.com.au/2015/10/13/31-million-sand-rd-interchange-underway/
The project, expected to be completed late 2017, is jointly funded by the federal and state governments with each contributing $22.5 million and $8.7 million respectively.

The interchange will see Sand Rd traffic elevated over the Princes Fwy, removal of the 80 kilometres per hour speed limits, new entry and exit ramps as well as two roundabouts on either side of the freeway to provide safer connections to Sand Rd.

Community groups and council have lobbied successive governments for a number of years to improve the intersection that has been the scene of one fatality, 11 serious injury and 25 casualty crashes between 2009 and 2013.

Vic Roads figures indicated 70 per cent of collisions at the intersection involved traffic crossing or turning at the intersection.

And another level crossing works video, aerial footage from last week. Sadly no youtube link: https://www.facebook.com/levelcrossings/videos/1089098904498127/

Pile Of Garbage
May 28, 2007



This is pretty cool: the new underground busport in Perth, WA is opening later this month. The cool thing is that it's designed with dynamic stand allocation which is a first in Australia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzBURc1rAcA

It's been pretty exciting in Perth watching all the new public transport developments unfolding over the years, all of which are being done under the guidance of a 20-year development plan aiming to support 2.7 million people in 2031: http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/about-us/ABOUT_P_PT_Plan2031.pdf

Hippie Hedgehog
Feb 19, 2007

Ever cuddled a hedgehog?

NihilismNow posted:

Rural highways don't have 2 lanes here. They have 1 lane going each way without a median. Then they would drop a roundabout there and a 50 kph speed limit for the roundabout (and increase again to 80/100 kph after the roundabout). If it has more than 1 lane each way it has controlled intersections.

Of course rural highways with 1 lane each way no median means you are crossing into the lane for oncoming traffic to pass, so clearly this is not a ideal situation (recently they keep limiting where you are allowed to pass effectively limiting the top speed to the slowest vehicle on the road).

Sorry NihilismNow, maybe if I had paid more attention to your posting I would know exactly what constitutes "here" in the above post. Unfortunately, without that understanding, your information is useless.

Just a pet peeve of mine as it occurs quite often in this thread...

(Edit: I can conclude from skimming your post history that you're based somewhere in Europe. Hooray, I guess.)

Hippie Hedgehog fucked around with this message at 13:03 on Jul 6, 2016

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003

Hippie Hedgehog posted:

Sorry NihilismNow, maybe if I had paid more attention to your posting I would know exactly what constitutes "here" in the above post. Unfortunately, without that understanding, your information is useless.

Just a pet peeve of mine as it occurs quite often in this thread...

(Edit: I can conclude from skimming your post history that you're based somewhere in Europe. Hooray, I guess.)

We're all in the same clogger country bru.

NihilismNow
Aug 31, 2003

Hippie Hedgehog posted:

Sorry NihilismNow, maybe if I had paid more attention to your posting I would know exactly what constitutes "here" in the above post. Unfortunately, without that understanding, your information is useless.

Just a pet peeve of mine as it occurs quite often in this thread...

(Edit: I can conclude from skimming your post history that you're based somewhere in Europe. Hooray, I guess.)

Does it really matter what country it is? I was responding to fishmech's question how else you would implement surface highways in rural areas so i responded with a example.
Based on my definition of "rural"* there are maybe 5-10 countries that qualify. It is a mystery!
*=not actually rural

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!

You see a similar design to that junction above in the UK on non-motorway dual carriageway. The speed limit is still normally 70mph though, just like on motorways.

Here's an example from the A90 in Aberdeenshire, although on that one the speed limit on the main road briefly goes down to 50, with speed cameras, because people keep on dying at it. Plenty of similar junctions on that road though.

Brovine
Dec 24, 2011

Mooooo?

Jonnty posted:

You see a similar design to that junction above in the UK on non-motorway dual carriageway. The speed limit is still normally 70mph though, just like on motorways.

Here's an example from the A90 in Aberdeenshire, although on that one the speed limit on the main road briefly goes down to 50, with speed cameras, because people keep on dying at it. Plenty of similar junctions on that road though.

There are also many similar junctions on the A1. Some have been closed or rebuilt - the Elkesley accident reduction scheme has been in progress for several years, for example - but there's plenty left. And the A1 is by no means a minor road.

There's still at few on the A14 I think, and there's definitely some on the dual carriageway sections of the A66.

AlphaKretin
Dec 25, 2014

A vase to face encounter.

...Vase to meet you?

...

GARVASE DAY!

I'm disappointed in whoever's fault it is that this thread's tag is not . :colbert:

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

I think we're going to see a lot more of this in the US with so many under-used paved roads being in area populated by people who refuse to pay for them. That's of course if they can even afford to "unpave" them.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/a21794/cities-unpaving-roads/

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Baronjutter posted:

I think we're going to see a lot more of this in the US with so many under-used paved roads being in area populated by people who refuse to pay for them. That's of course if they can even afford to "unpave" them.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/a21794/cities-unpaving-roads/

"Cities" is a real stretch. They namecheck a road in Montpelier, VT and despite being the state capital it only has a population of 7,855 which is mostly concentrated around the state offices. It's really just a small town in a heavily rural area and the road in question, Bliss Road, mostly just connects a dozen or so farms to an important road or two.

And it's not like Vermont is known for underfunding/low taxes either.

Eskaton
Aug 13, 2014

Baronjutter posted:

I think we're going to see a lot more of this in the US with so many under-used paved roads being in area populated by people who refuse to pay for them. That's of course if they can even afford to "unpave" them.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/a21794/cities-unpaving-roads/

The roads will unpave themselves, don't worry.

fishmech posted:

"Cities" is a real stretch. They namecheck a road in Montpelier, VT and despite being the state capital it only has a population of 7,855 which is mostly concentrated around the state offices. It's really just a small town in a heavily rural area and the road in question, Bliss Road, mostly just connects a dozen or so farms to an important road or two.

And it's not like Vermont is known for underfunding/low taxes either.

It sounds like it was originally a waste of money then. And how is it not underfunding if you literally can't afford to maintain a road..?

Eskaton fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Jul 14, 2016

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fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Eskaton posted:

It sounds like it was originally a waste of money then. And how is it not underfunding if you literally can't afford to maintain a road..?

But they can afford to pave it if they really want to, they've just decided it's not worth it do so anymore. There is already lots of unpaved roads in the outlying areas of the "city" for similar reasons, and many of them never got paved to begin with.

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