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Captain Charisma posted:I don't know if Foley got up, but that's definitely Rock & Sock vs. the Hollys from a Smackdown in the fall of 99. Germany was called Prussia. It was Prussia/England versus France/Spain/Russia in the 7 Years War. Prussia/England won due to Catherine the Great having Prussian lineage and backing out of the war when she came into power. Also, everyone hated Britain. EVERYONE.
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Feb 25, 2010 06:46
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When is the last time Nash did his hilarious "welp, guess I'm gonna flop out of the ring" plancha?
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Feb 25, 2010 13:00
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My question is from this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6bvRrq-R9M It is not about the bullshit stupid rear end angle, but about Michael Cole. He gallantly belts out "VINTAGE OLD SCHOOL!" when UT goes Old School. This was GAB 2004. When did Michael Cole add 'VINTAGE' to his arsenal?
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Feb 25, 2010 14:02
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The A-Team Van posted:My question is from this video When I first started watching, about that time, he only used vintage with undertaker, with that one move. Then it spread, like a virus.
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Feb 25, 2010 15:31
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did anyone ever tell him what the word actually meant?
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Feb 25, 2010 15:35
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Lamuella posted:did anyone ever tell him what the word actually meant? would he care?
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Feb 25, 2010 15:56
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Lamuella posted:did anyone ever tell him what the word actually meant? I really doubt that most people care about the specifics of wine-making enough, and he just used it to refer to old things of undertaker's that got better with time.
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Feb 25, 2010 15:57
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I really just meant in the common usage, where it still doesn't mean "thing that's been done twice"
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Feb 25, 2010 16:07
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Wazzu posted:When I first started watching, about that time, he only used vintage with undertaker, with that one move. Then it spread, like a virus. Cole stole it from Jim Ross who used it a lot less frequently.
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Feb 25, 2010 16:28
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Rusty Shackelford posted:Cole stole it from Jim Ross who used it a lot less frequently.
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Feb 25, 2010 16:57
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projecthalaxy posted:What is, in your opinion, the best, most crystalline example of WWE's 'Face in peril' type tag match style? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD7T_z3KPvw&feature=related
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Feb 25, 2010 20:04
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Jerusalem posted:I don't know how many people remember this (or if I'm remembering it right) but there was a match involving I think Rock and Foley (possibly Al Snow and Foley?) where Foley was bitterly miserable with his tag partner because he thought he'd betrayed him and couldn't bring himself to get into the match. So he actually went and sat on the ring-steps with his back to the ring as his partner got the poo poo kicked out of him, every so often fighting the opponents of enough or making a break to try to get a tag from Foley who wouldn't pay attention to him. The crowd was going loving FRANTIC trying to convince Foley to turn around and make the hot tag, and at one point Foley DOES suddenly stand up and turn to stare at his partner who is locked in a submission hold stretching his arm out desperately for him. The place went BANANA because they thought Foley would make the tag, but in the end he chose not to. I don't know for sure that this was Foley's idea, but I assume it was. It seemed like he was always trying to find a new way of doing it, or he wanted to spin things differently. We've all seen the partner who won't tag in. 9 out of 10 times they stand there with their hand out and then pull it away at the last second. I loved that Foley broadcast it from the beginning to show just how disheartened he was. It really added to the match, I miss little things like that.
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Feb 25, 2010 20:12
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Captain Charisma posted:I don't know if Foley got up, but that's definitely Rock & Sock vs. the Hollys from a Smackdown in the fall of 99. Close, it was Raw the day after No Mercy 99. I only know that because I was there. They showed the tag team ladder match from the night before prior to the live show and the place indeed went banana. It also had the awesome promo when Mankind thought that Rock threw his book in the trash and he cut a hellacious promo on Rocky, including a rare use of the word goddamn. It was also the night that Russo and Ferarra started in WCW, and the debut of old slapnuts himself on Nitro. I am 27 years old and don't know the date and usually don't know the day of the week but I remember all this. 
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Feb 25, 2010 21:50
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The Prisoner posted:Yep. To my knowledge Ross only started using it around 2001 or so after Taker changed over to the ABA gimmick, but I could be wrong. Yea, it was used very specifically for American Badass 'Taker whenever he would whip out his old signature moves. You know, in a logical context.
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Feb 25, 2010 21:57
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I've got a dumb question again, and don't feel like searching through all this for an answer. It's about submissions. I'm taking jiu jitsu to help with my weight loss and Monday I put on a single wing choke (tazmission) on a guy. I realized that without my other hand in the gi collar, it doesn't really work. Led me to think a bit. How do pro wrestlers come up with submission moves? Do they always hurt when they do them? Are they designed to look cool for effect more than realism, or are they just intentionally applied light (like an armbar)? For example, the hold Danielson put on Jericho didn't look too painful (objectively, as Jericho sold it like amputation) versus the Walls of Jericho he put on Danielson (which looked more painful due to the knee in the back of the head/neck and Danielson was tapping within 2 seconds) Anyways any insight on this is useful. Obviously I'll never be able to bust out the walls of jericho in jiujitsu, but likewise I doubt I'll ever see a Peruvian Necktie or Darce choke in WWE as they're effective but not very showy. I would mark out for a flying armbar though.
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Feb 25, 2010 22:03
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ToiletLaw posted:I've got a dumb question again, and don't feel like searching through all this for an answer. It's about submissions. some may be painful in execution but wrestling is fake so the point is to look painful rather than be painful
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Feb 25, 2010 22:05
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my assumption is that almost all submission moves are done in such a way as to be safe. The positioning of one hand can be the difference between something being agonizing and something just being a bicep against your nose.
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Feb 25, 2010 22:08
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Or in John Cena's case, the difference between a believable move and a gaping hole big enough for an unlubricated Viscera to waltz through unnoticed.
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Feb 25, 2010 22:23
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Lamuella posted:my assumption is that almost all submission moves are done in such a way as to be safe. The positioning of one hand can be the difference between something being agonizing and something just being a bicep against your nose. The crippler crossface is a good example. To really hurt someone you're supposed to press your knuckles against the opponent's head and face and pull back, digging your knuckles into their sinuses. Most of the time wrestlers just pull up on the guy's chin though. LightsGameraAction fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Feb 25, 2010 |
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Feb 25, 2010 22:24
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ToiletLaw posted:I've got a dumb question again, and don't feel like searching through all this for an answer. It's about submissions. As a general rule, if it looks painful then it's probably painful. The Walls of Jericho with the knee in the back is WICKED PAINFUL.
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Feb 25, 2010 22:27
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LightsGameraAction posted:The cripple crossface is a good example. To really hurt someone you're supposed to press your knuckles against the opponent's head and face and pull back, digging your knuckles into their sinuses. Most of the time wrestlers just pull up on the guy's chin though. Cripple crossface. Nice.
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Feb 25, 2010 22:28
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The least flashy submission moves are usually the ones that hurt the most. See: Hammerlock, kimura, heel hook
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Feb 25, 2010 22:31
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The Figure Four is painful as poo poo no matter how it's done. Your shin feels like it's going to snap at any moment. The Boston Crab is uncomfortable but not really painful unless someone is torquing the poo poo out of you. Same with the Sharpshooter.
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Feb 25, 2010 22:37
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Another little thing is that WWE prefers submissions that leave the face somewhat visible. Gotta be able to sell the pain and emotion; it's a lot more important than a move being shoot painful. For example I doubt you'll see a main eventer use something like a guillotine choke on a regular basis, since the guy in the move can't really emote at the camera.
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Feb 25, 2010 22:50
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Minidust posted:Another little thing is that WWE prefers submissions that leave the face somewhat visible. Gotta be able to sell the pain and emotion; it's a lot more important than a move being shoot painful. For example I doubt you'll see a main eventer use something like a guillotine choke on a regular basis, since the guy in the move can't really emote at the camera. See: Gate, Hell's
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Feb 25, 2010 22:53
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The A-Team Van posted:See: Gate, Hell's Most people tap to that very fast or they sell the struggle of it being locked on.
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Feb 25, 2010 22:54
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The manbible claw's the easiest to fake, yet probably one of the most painful to actually have locked in.
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Feb 25, 2010 23:08
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Pneub posted:The manbible claw's the easiest to fake, yet probably one of the most painful to actually have locked in. I like the story that Foley had to hardsell it to Vince before he could use it as his finisher in the WWF.
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Feb 25, 2010 23:11
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LightsGameraAction posted:The crippler crossface is a good example. To really hurt someone you're supposed to press your knuckles against the opponent's head and face and pull back, digging your knuckles into their sinuses. Most of the time wrestlers just pull up on the guy's chin though. Pulling up on the chin can hurt like hell, too. Your neck only wants to go so far.
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Feb 25, 2010 23:13
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tzirean posted:Pulling up on the chin can hurt like hell, too. Your neck only wants to go so far. Yea but pulling on the chin also makes it like the Boston Crab or Sharpshooter where how much it hurts depends on how much you torque it, where as the other way is knuckles constantly being driven into your face. Plus it's easier to fake pain when it's under the chin when it's not actually being torqued that badly.
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Feb 25, 2010 23:15
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CVagts posted:I like the story that Foley had to hardsell it to Vince before he could use it as his finisher in the WWF. he'd tried to sell it to Bill Watts years before, and Watts just couldn't get past the thought that "Couldn't I just bite your fingers off?"
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Feb 25, 2010 23:56
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Lamuella posted:he'd tried to sell it to Bill Watts years before, and Watts just couldn't get past the thought that "Couldn't I just bite your fingers off?" When Foley tells the story he says that's the first thing Vince asked him too
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Feb 26, 2010 00:10
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Submissions are just meant to look cool/painful
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Feb 26, 2010 04:35
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Supreme Allah posted:When Foley tells the story he says that's the first thing Vince asked him too It's the first thing everyone thinks. I still haven't heard an explanation of it that makes sense to me, but whatever it looks cool.
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Feb 26, 2010 05:03
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Wazzu posted:It's the first thing everyone thinks. I still haven't heard an explanation of it that makes sense to me, but whatever it looks cool. I believe it was Jim Cornette that helped Foley come up with it. Apparently Dr. Richard Kimble used it when he was a wrestler after the whole Fugitive thing. Cornette said that there is a nerve in or under the tongue that, if pressed, would debilitate someone. It didn't hurt that when he first debuted, Mankind's opponents would chew on some Alka-Seltzer to foam at the mouth after the claw.
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Feb 26, 2010 05:11
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Didn't he wear some kind of a finger guard when he first debuted in WWF?
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Feb 26, 2010 05:27
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Wazzu posted:It's the first thing everyone thinks. I still haven't heard an explanation of it that makes sense to me, but whatever it looks cool. Put two fingers under your tongue, and touch them to your thumb. If you torqued down on it, the screaming would keep you from biting down.
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Feb 26, 2010 05:30
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CSammich posted:Didn't he wear some kind of a finger guard when he first debuted in WWF? Yeah, but the idea behind that was the Mankind character had mutilated his fingers with a hammer because his mother made him practice piano all the time, since he was a prodigy. It was combined with the claw, but there was a storyline behind it. Man, the gimmick was loving Russo when it started.
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Feb 26, 2010 05:37
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WeaselWeaz posted:Yeah, but the idea behind that was the Mankind character had mutilated his fingers with a hammer because his mother made him practice piano all the time, since he was a prodigy. It was combined with the claw, but there was a storyline behind it. Man, the gimmick was loving Russo when it started. Yeah, but Mankind could be an example of Russo coming up with a good idea... Wait, what am I saying? 
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Feb 26, 2010 05:42
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Mankind was not a Russo creation.
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Feb 26, 2010 05:46
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