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AkumaHokoru
Jul 20, 2007
They push a guy in a storyline then completely forget about him. see matt morgan for examples.(they did it to him a few times now)

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Pneub
Mar 12, 2007

I'M THE DEVIL, AND I WILL WASH OVER THE EARTH AND THE SEAS WILL RUN RED WITH THE BLOOD OF ALL THE SINNERS

I AM REBORN

AkumaHokoru posted:

They push a guy in a storyline then completely forget about him. see matt morgan for examples.(they did it to him a few times now)

Also loving Koslov (for a more long-term example).

AkumaHokoru
Jul 20, 2007

Pneub posted:

Also loving Koslov (for a more long-term example).

I actually think morgan was getting the shaft longer than koslov was. koslov was atleast IN a world title match

KungFu Grip
Jun 18, 2008

AkumaHokoru posted:

I actually think morgan was getting the shaft longer than koslov was. koslov was atleast IN a world title match

Morgan was in one too I believe.

Pneub
Mar 12, 2007

I'M THE DEVIL, AND I WILL WASH OVER THE EARTH AND THE SEAS WILL RUN RED WITH THE BLOOD OF ALL THE SINNERS

I AM REBORN

AkumaHokoru posted:

I actually think morgan was getting the shaft longer than koslov was. koslov was atleast IN a world title match

I was thinking more of his one push lasting like 6 months.

(Although I can't actually remember Morgan for the life of me, so I guess he would be a better example anyway.)

Pneub fucked around with this message at 10:37 on Apr 16, 2010

Paper Jam Dipper
Jul 14, 2007

by XyloJW
Good examples of throwaway pushes would be Al Snow, Val Venis and British Bulldog in 2000 against The Rock.

WeaselWeaz
Apr 11, 2004

Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Biscuits and Gravy.

Pneub posted:

(Although I can't actually remember Morgan for the life of me, so I guess he would be a better example anyway.)

Stutterer who almost got a push against the Undertaker. Despite having the body they like and being one of the best promos in OVW, but green in the ring.

reality_groove
Dec 27, 2007

Lone Rogue posted:

Good examples of throwaway pushes would be Al Snow, Val Venis and British Bulldog in 2000 against The Rock.

1999?

Sometimes throwaway pushes can by dry runs or litmus tests for moving guys up the card.

In other words a Small Move that leads on to Bigger Things.

Wazzu
Feb 28, 2008

Are you sure I'm winning the Rumble? That does'nt seem right.....

CM Junk posted:

Then again, it was pretty much the Benoit incident that got me to watch wrestling again in the first place, so it's a Catch-22 for me.

What the gently caress?

LividLiquid posted:

Say you're working a match like this with no words. How do you know what to do with your body? Somebody gets you up in a vertical suplex position or a ddt position or any other number of positions and there are twenty things they could do. How do you know which one to lift into? How do you know when to make your comeback and such? The whole thing is just fascinating to me.

I imagine it's also a bit like dancing, you just lead something, and it happens. When you're literally lifting somebody and it's a move that works, it's not hard.

Save Russian Jews
Jun 7, 2007

who the fuck is this guy anyway, i can't even see his face

Lipstick Apathy

Wazzu posted:

What the gently caress?

RE: coming back to WWE after Benoit went apeshit - Honestly it would not surprise me in the least to see this sentiment echoed by more than a few people, myself included.

joshtothemaxx
Nov 17, 2008

I will have a whole army of zombies! A zombie Marine Corps, a zombie Navy Corps, zombie Space Cadets...
Would Kofi right now be a good example of a throwaway push? He got a rocket strapped to his rear end against Orton and looked like he was being elevated WAY up the card. He chilled there for a couple of months, and now here he is back to where he was before without any mention of the Orton stuff.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

Kofi is pretty much a heel turn or a brand switch away from getting a big push again. If anything his run against Orton was more a gatekeeper push where they try to see how well he could do against a bigger name. They used to use Benoit for this role, so its a sign of faith in Ortons ability as much as anything now.

El Gallinero Gros
Mar 17, 2010
I've actually seen it stated/written a few times that nowadays the throwaway pushes being discussed are Vince's way of testing whether that wrestler can be "trusted" in a main event spot in case one of his current stars like Orton or Ccena goes down. Miz's whole program against John Cena was like the wrestling equivalent of releasing the Double Down in a test market before letting the rest of the nation try the thing. Same for Kofi vs Orton, and Punk's first kick at the can with the world title on Smackdown. They also seem to bury a guy soon after; whether that's to test their resolve and work ethic or to keep him from overshadowing the established stars is up for discussion.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

Shane McMahon did an interview a few years back where he talked about what he saw as going wrong with Lesnar, and how he burned out so quickly. Basically he said that Brock never had a down peroid outside of a few weeks, where he wasn't being pushed as a big star and so never had the opportunity to be tested to how much he wanted it. The depush is a huge part of WWE man management now. You survive it with your attitude intact and you will get the push you deserve.

Save Russian Jews
Jun 7, 2007

who the fuck is this guy anyway, i can't even see his face

Lipstick Apathy

El Gallinero Gros posted:

Miz's whole program against John Cena was like the wrestling equivalent of releasing the Double Down in a test market before letting the rest of the nation try the thing.

The Miz does not give you indigestion and constipation half as often

Writer Cath
Apr 1, 2007

Box. Flipped.
Plaster Town Cop

Save Russian Jews posted:

The Miz does not give you indigestion and constipation half as often

Unless you're JBL.

Save Russian Jews
Jun 7, 2007

who the fuck is this guy anyway, i can't even see his face

Lipstick Apathy
Actual question: someone mentioned swapping Bourne to SD for Mysterio so that Smackdown has a "flippy face guy" and I just realized that I cannot, for the life of me, remember a person in recent WWE history who has been a flippy heel.

Didn't Morrison get a lot more flippy after his tweener/face shift?

When was the last time Bourne or Rey were heel?

Writer Cath
Apr 1, 2007

Box. Flipped.
Plaster Town Cop
Morrison was fairly flippy during his heel run. Even his heel finisher, the Moonlight Drive was pretty flippy. He definitely got more flippy after turning face, though. Heel Morrison did a lot of moonsaults etc. but when you're a heel those moves rarely connect.

Skinty McEdger
Mar 9, 2008

I have NEVER received the respect I deserve as the leader and founder of The Masterflock, the internet's largest and oldest Christopher Masterpiece fan group in all of history, and I DEMAND that changes. From now on, you will respect Skinty McEdger!

Rey was heel as part of the filthy animals in WCW. Except really they weren't heels and were over as faces with the fans regardless of what they did. Bourne was a heel in WSX but never in the WWE.

As a rule the WWE doesn't do flippy heels. When Tajiri was a heel, he tuned down the number of flips he did and more or less removed the handspring elbow from his moveset. The last guy who I can think of who was a high flying heel was probably Kid Kash. Flips normally draw pops and the WWE doesn't like its heels to do anything too flashy.

DannoMack
Aug 1, 2003

i love it when you call me big poppa
I think Hakushi did his handspring stuff as a heel, but that was forever ago and basically irrelevant but I JUST CAN'T STOP POSTING.

Dr. Ass
Apr 21, 2008

Wazzu posted:

What the gently caress?

It was actually the perfect storm of what-the-gently caress that was going on at the time with the limo explosion, the Benoit incident, and TNA signing Pacman Jones, in addition to me being bored as poo poo in my summer office job and exploring wrestling stuff on Wikipedia that made me go "welp, might as well see what's going on with WWE right now".

Rusty Shackelford
Feb 7, 2005
Kai En Tai were flippy heels where they debuted, but that was also a long time ago.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

Save Russian Jews posted:

Actual question: someone mentioned swapping Bourne to SD for Mysterio so that Smackdown has a "flippy face guy" and I just realized that I cannot, for the life of me, remember a person in recent WWE history who has been a flippy heel.

Didn't Morrison get a lot more flippy after his tweener/face shift?

When was the last time Bourne or Rey were heel?

Bourne has never been a heel in WWE. He was a preppy heel in WSX, and a heel in Larry Sweeney's stable in ROH, both of which worked pretty well for the context. But outside of federations with mostly smaller guys it is not going to work.

Writer Cath
Apr 1, 2007

Box. Flipped.
Plaster Town Cop
Hell, even Orton has brought back the dropkick now that he's a face.

Save Russian Jews
Jun 7, 2007

who the fuck is this guy anyway, i can't even see his face

Lipstick Apathy

MassRayPer posted:

Bourne has never been a heel in WWE. He was a preppy heel in WSX, and a heel in Larry Sweeney's stable in ROH, both of which worked pretty well for the context. But outside of federations with mostly smaller guys it is not going to work.

these were my thoughts

I guess Kendrick would probably count, but he got squashed too quickly to actually flip.

I really wish they'd let people be both talented AND dicks again :smith:

LightsGameraAction
Sep 4, 2006

Save Russian Jews posted:



I really wish they'd let people be both talented AND dicks again :smith:

Like was pointed out high risk moves tend to get pops regardless of heel/face so having a flippy heel severely limits the number of faces he can compete against because there's every possibility the heel will get over with the crowd and they'll forget about the face being a face.

It's annoying but I can see why they would do it. A flippy heel now couldn't be pitted against 50% of WWE's face midcard without the crowd making it sound like a face-turn.

Gaz-L
Jan 28, 2009

Skinty McEdger posted:

Shane McMahon did an interview a few years back where he talked about what he saw as going wrong with Lesnar, and how he burned out so quickly. Basically he said that Brock never had a down peroid outside of a few weeks, where he wasn't being pushed as a big star and so never had the opportunity to be tested to how much he wanted it. The depush is a huge part of WWE man management now. You survive it with your attitude intact and you will get the push you deserve.

There is something to be said for it, at least in the sense of being a crucible. A guy like Punk, who connects with the people and who refuses to let depushes damage his confidence is much more likely to have long-term prospects than, say, Carlito, who just stopped trying.

Save Russian Jews
Jun 7, 2007

who the fuck is this guy anyway, i can't even see his face

Lipstick Apathy

LightsGameraAction posted:

Like was pointed out high risk moves tend to get pops regardless of heel/face so having a flippy heel severely limits the number of faces he can compete against because there's every possibility the heel will get over with the crowd and they'll forget about the face being a face.

No one cheered for the guy swinging the swords around in Indiana Jones.

You can have have a flippy heel, he just has to be a slightly bigger dick than someone who is intentionally made unentertaining.

Gaz-L
Jan 28, 2009

Save Russian Jews posted:

No one cheered for the guy swinging the swords around in Indiana Jones.

You can have have a flippy heel, he just has to be a slightly bigger dick than someone who is intentionally made unentertaining.

Oh, I just had a great idea. A Teddy Hart gimmick. A heel who just constantly tries flips and dives and elaborate poo poo, whether it hits or not, and is just OTT smug and arrogant about how cool all of it is.

LightsGameraAction
Sep 4, 2006

Save Russian Jews posted:

No one cheered for the guy swinging the swords around in Indiana Jones.

You can have have a flippy heel, he just has to be a slightly bigger dick than someone who is intentionally made unentertaining.
Yea but Indiana Jones is motherfucking Indiana Jones.

But the sword guy up against Matt Hardy or MVP and see how quickly the crowd gives no poo poo about them anymore.

Coaaab
Aug 6, 2006

Wish I was there...
When did CM Punk first use the Go 2 Sleep?

weekly font
Dec 1, 2004


Everytime I try to fly I fall
Without my wings
I feel so small
Guess I need you baby...



Kerck Pnameless posted:

When did CM Punk first use the Go 2 Sleep?

A couple months into his ECW career when the Anaconda Vice was replaced.

Paper Jam Dipper
Jul 14, 2007

by XyloJW

Gaz-L posted:

There is something to be said for it, at least in the sense of being a crucible. A guy like Punk, who connects with the people and who refuses to let depushes damage his confidence is much more likely to have long-term prospects than, say, Carlito, who just stopped trying.

Even Punk had a de-push when they put him in the Tag division after he lost the WWE Title. There may have been one before he won the World Title where people proclaimed him in the doghouse, but I remember people really got angry for him no longer being in the Title picture when he became Tag Champ. I'd consider that a test to see how he took it.

What's interesting about what Shane said is that if you read Bret's book, you can see this happened with a lot of guys in the company. Yokozuna is a perfect example. Bret on the other hand arguably was the first guy who got the "de-push and see how you react" but it was a different time and era so it was treated differently. Going from the World Title scene and headlining major house shows to wrestling Hakushi and Jerry Lawler in "Kiss my Foot" matches would be treated as a major de-push today.

Writer Cath
Apr 1, 2007

Box. Flipped.
Plaster Town Cop
Right now it seems like Morrison is undergoing that a little bit. Hell, I think this might be the longest he's gone without any kind of championship, at least so far as I can recall.

Benign
Oct 20, 2008

And I Quote!

Writer Cath posted:

Right now it seems like Morrison is undergoing that a little bit. Hell, I think this might be the longest he's gone without any kind of championship, at least so far as I can recall.

If they get the Miz to drop the Tag belts, a real feud between the two with Morrison winning the US title would help Morrison so much, but I doubt we'll get that, since the Daniel Bryan thing. Unless there's a heel turn for DB, but thats retard fantasy booking.

Rusty Shackelford
Feb 7, 2005

Gaz-L posted:

Oh, I just had a great idea. A Teddy Hart gimmick. A heel who just constantly tries flips and dives and elaborate poo poo, whether it hits or not, and is just OTT smug and arrogant about how cool all of it is.

Kinda like Sabu or RVD?

Writer Cath
Apr 1, 2007

Box. Flipped.
Plaster Town Cop

Benign posted:

If they get the Miz to drop the Tag belts, a real feud between the two with Morrison winning the US title would help Morrison so much, but I doubt we'll get that, since the Daniel Bryan thing. Unless there's a heel turn for DB, but thats retard fantasy booking.

I read somewhere a while back that they were discussing bringing Joey Mercury into the SES. Have Morrison feuding with that group would be freaking awesome.

Push El Burrito
May 9, 2006

Soiled Meat

Writer Cath posted:

I read somewhere a while back that they were discussing bringing Joey Mercury into the SES. Have Morrison feuding with that group would be freaking awesome.

Morrison and Rey vs. SES would be my favorite matches.

Ooh, maybe like half the roster would join SES, and Rey would start wearing face paint instead of a mask...

FishBulb
Mar 29, 2003

Marge, I'd like to be alone with the sandwich for a moment.

Are you going to eat it?

...yes...
Whats the deal with all the Parkas? I mean I knew that there was La Parka and L. A. Park who I guess is the original La Parka but theres a Super Parka too? How many Parkas there be?

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Von Dozier
Jul 10, 2009

by Peatpot

FishBulb posted:

Whats the deal with all the Parkas? I mean I knew that there was La Parka and L. A. Park who I guess is the original La Parka but theres a Super Parka too? How many Parkas there be?

Mexico has like 5 different versions of all their wrestlers

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