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A couple years back I remember reading somewhere that in the period from WWE buying out ECW to post-invasion WWE bumped a lot of the ECW roster down into development because apart from the invasion angle they had no idea what to do with them, and they wound up eventually letting go of about 75% of the roster for no other reason than their on-screen persona was too much like a present WWE wrestler and the writers couldn't come up with a better idea for them. I stopped watching right around the invasion storyline and started getting back into wrestling around '06-'07 so I wouldn't know personally how true this is but it seems like a pretty dick move if it happened. Did it? *Edit = and for that matter, did I miss anything really good while I was tuned out? I've done a little catching up, but are there any events really worth checking out from that time period I missed? LightsGameraAction fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Jan 16, 2010 |
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Jan 16, 2010 22:18
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sportsgenius86 posted:It wasn't the best wrestled match of the year but it's the most memorable and easily the biggest looking back. Keep in mind the only thing they really had to go on for Foley taking that bump off the top of the cell was Michaels who took a much less dangerous version of the bump, and it's not like they prepared any special padding or anything for him in preparation. They were really playing with fire in that Foley had an entirely different physique than Michaels and they really had no clue as a result how him being on top of the cage with Taker was going to play out. There's only a handful of wrestlers to this day who would go into a match like that with as many X-factors and things they couldn't expect as there were at the time. There's even less who would go into a match like that, get that hosed up, and work through it to still try and put on a match.
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Jan 17, 2010 00:04
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apsouthern posted:I've got Terry Funk's "More Than Hardcore" in front of me now I think part of the problem was that the spot already started to give way. When they start the match Undertaker and Mankind are fighting on the cage and at one point they step on the panel that Mick later gets chokeslammed through. About half the clasps came off into the ring and they both got off it very quickly. If not for that the spot probably would have had a higher chance of working right.
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Jan 17, 2010 18:12
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As much as the Dudley Boys ran their gimmick into the ground now, I've been re-watching a lot of old ppv's from all 3 companies and you know what I've noticed isn't there anymore that I really miss? 3+ person stables. Now there's usually 1 or 2 running around but it seems like back in the day there were 1 or 2 that involved main eventers and then the mid-card was littered with tiny stables. I really wish WWE would go back to that, seeing as how it was a great way to put guys over and blow up feuds without constantly having to pit one guy against the same other guy over and over. Besides they have about twice the roster they had during the attitude era and especially with the guest host bullshit on RAW they don't have nearly enough time to showcase everyone when they're running 85-something percent of their roster as singles competitors.
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Jan 21, 2010 23:43
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Captain Charisma posted:Most of those teams were terrible, though. I'd rather have mostly good singles guys over a huge group of scrubs. Yea but the part of the point I'm trying to make is now they have more good singles guys than they know what to do with in a week so they could be making them into teams that are actually good.
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Jan 22, 2010 06:13
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CM Junk posted:That's the crazy thing about it. A lot of the book's writing is a bit too subjective for it to really be a great historical recollection, but it's phenomenal that it was doing the numbers it was for such a mediocre product. Once WCW started taking guys from the WWE they basically had to rebuild their main event card from the ground up. Look where all the guys who defined the attitude era were up to that point- Shawn Michaels was popular but a midcarder, Triple H was either in WCW or his early WWF character was some douchy rich guy from connecticut, Steve Austin was in WCW, Rock was either not around or one of the goons in Nation of Domination, Mick Foley was in WCW/ECW as Cactus Jack. Imagine if Triple H, Michaels, Batista, Orton, and Mysterio suddenly left the WWE. Wouldn't it take you some convincing to think of Miz or MVP or Evan Bourne as in the same league as them all of a sudden? I realize there's a lot of hyperbole in there and the timeline doesn't line up that perfectly, but I think it's a little too easy to look back at the monday night wars from this position where WWE actually has more main event materialaa than they know what to do with and talk about how it's amazing WCW managed to win some of the wars at all.
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Jan 27, 2010 09:33
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PsiKoTicK posted:Except that WCW started a downward spiral while they had WWE BEATEN. Literally, they had everything won. WWE was fighting back, barely. By taking WCW midcarders (Austin, Foley) and their own midcarders (HHH in particular... Hunter Hearst Helmsley, though NOBODY calls him anything but "Hunter" and I doubt most remember why)... WWE let guys go out, and be themselves - the writers helped them make a promo, and let their own personality come through, though obviously expanded to the Nth degree. It just so happened that by the time WWE had developed those characters into marketable, household names, WCW hadn't done gently caress-all to the likewise. They were still running off Hogan and co.'s momentum and didn't even try building up a second generation of superstars.
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Jan 27, 2010 09:55
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I was just thinking about this the other day- Have they reunited Edge and Christian or even had them in the same ring together since either of them became main eventers? I feel like it's bound to happen sooner or later and once HBK finally retires they'll probably be doing with Edge and Christian what they're doing with DX now.
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Jan 29, 2010 20:37
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Thanks. I actually had another question I forgot about- On the Monday Night Wars DVD when they get to the point in time where all the talent WCW wouldn't put over(mysterio, Eddy, Dean, Benoit, Jericho) started leaving for the WWE, they show a clip of Jericho from a Nitro flipping out and screaming "I'VE HAD ENOUGH!" over and over and slamming a chair into one of the ring posts. It looked like he was crying too. Was this an actual freak out he had on TV or was this part of an angle and taken out of context for dramatic purposes in the DVD? Also, what was the original context that triggered him flipping the gently caress out.
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Jan 29, 2010 22:06
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Another Kane-related question: When and what was the motivation for Kane being a goofy face? I think it was around the invasion timeline, after he had starting wearing the "half-mask" he wore until he lost his mask. I know a video was posted here recently from when he had a match with Hogan and the Rock where he was imitating them in a promo beforehand and rock looked weirded out.
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Jan 29, 2010 22:30
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Minidust posted:And didn't he have a strange relationship with Terri Runnels at some point? I remember him kissing her and then yelling "FREAKS RULE!" That was when he was teaming with DX, who at the time was just X-pac and Road Dogg with Terri as their valet. If I remember correctly, it was all a ruse to gently caress with him and all 3 of them turned on him at some point. *EDIT- This is also when they got him to say his first words without the voicebox: "SUUUUUUUUUUCK IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT"
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Jan 29, 2010 23:03
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WeaselWeaz posted:The idea was that his hair was patchy because of all the scarring from when he was burned as a kid. They had also done a lovely make-up job. This was dropped because the fans poo poo on it to the point that even Vince realized it was bad, so they went in another direction. They said that Kane was insane and thought he was scarred when he really wasn't. Then he set JR on fire. I kind of figured there was a practical reason behind the half-mask. I just figured it was because the original was uncomfortable as poo poo to wear. And yea, he looked really ridiculous when they unmasked him. He was supposed to be horribly scarred and burnt (although how they were planning to perpetuate this with his mask off I don't know) but he looked like Curly from the 3 Stooges put on an afro wig then became a victim of an exploding cigar gag.
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Jan 30, 2010 18:49
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oldpainless posted:Here's a question. Does anyone in this forum even like unmasked Kane compared to masked Kane? I mostly see people preferring old Kane so I'm just curious. I liked masked Kane so drat much. I really haven't liked him since he unmasked. Now he's just another big bald mean guy. He's not disfigured, he's not even all that ugly by pro-wrestler standards. He's just got a dumb snarly-face and fake contacts. I mean yea, they did some dumb stuff with masked Kane from time to time, but it at least set him apart from everyone else. He's boring now and the whole "him not really being scarred" thing(even though I knew he was Isaac Yankem and not really Undertaker's brother the whole time) just kind of tarnished the whole "twisted monster Kane" thing.
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Jan 30, 2010 22:35
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They could have had Undertaker say he used demon magic or whatever to heal the burns on his face if Undertaker wasn't a goddamn dumb rear end biker cliche at this point.
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Jan 31, 2010 17:25
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oldpainless posted:poo poo, those tickets sure didn't help. I heard WCW paid an exorbitant amount of money because they paid for all wrestler tickets, even if they were no plans at all to use them. So they had a staff of what, like 100 wrestlers or something? The big names and they seemingly had so many random jobbers it seemed like. Not to mention the Nitro Girls and they probably paid extra to have the nWo guys transported separately from everyone else too.
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Feb 2, 2010 00:44
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1.) Why is Wrestlemania so far the only pay-per-view WWE is releasing on blu-ray if they went HD two years ago? 2.) Do any of the anthology sets have Chris Benoit edited out of them? 3.) What are the odds WWE will ever release anthology sets for WCW/ECW pay per views?
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Feb 2, 2010 01:38
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Bikeage posted:3) They put out a "Starrcade: The Essential Collection" set last year, pretty sure it was a 3-discer. Nothing in the way of anthology box sets, but consider that for the hassle of blurring the scratch logo on WWF 1998-2002 they'd have to overdub a lot of music in both WCW and ECW for their entire runs. With a handful of exceptions didn't WCW use their own music, in which case WWE would own the songs now?
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Feb 2, 2010 01:53
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Super Ninja Fish posted:You can do that now on DVD trading sites all over the internet. I'd never buy a season set from WWE until they figure out a way to keep all of the original music, stop censoring their product, stop taking out Benoit, and stop blurring their logo. Are they still editing blood out on old shows and beeping out swear words? If so, An anthology of ECW PPVs produced by WWE sounds like an abomination. They just recently stopped editing Benoit out of matches and documentaries(as of 2008 I think) and they now only censor the Attitude logo, the other, older WWF logos remain uncensored. I had no idea they edited blood out though, on what sets? I have the HiaC set and ECW's most violent matches DVD and they're both pretty graphic and uncut. Alright, here's a nagging question I've had for a while related to all of this: The lawsuit between the WWE and the WWF for use of the name "WWF"... why/how did Vince not win it?
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Feb 2, 2010 22:26
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I can still remember parts of the Oddities theme music. Didn't one of them start bringing a giant stuffed Cartman to the ring too? My own question- What happened to Essa Rios post-WWF? I remember him wrestling on Heat with Lita as his valet and I really liked him. Then I went to a Smackdown where he wrestled for a Heat taping or a dark match or something and like a week later he was gone and Lita was teaming with the Hardys.
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Feb 4, 2010 20:20
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AkumaHokoru posted:He actually does have technical wrestling ability. hasnt used it since he stopped being the blue blood but yeah he actually has it. And compared compared to a lot of other wrestlers (especially Austin***) whose entire repertoire is/was mainly *punchpunchpunch* *throw into ropes, clothesline* *punchpunchpunch* *throw into corner, kickkickkick* *throw into ropes, punchpunchpunch* *signature move, other signature move, pin* he's an amazingly technical wrestler. ***= For Austin you'd have to add about 6 Lou Thesz presses in there randomly. As far as main eventers at that time from the attitude era go, you had The Rock, Austin, and Triple H. Yes, Triple H was the only technical one there who could even come close to being called technical.
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Feb 5, 2010 19:39
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Golden Bee posted:Benoit and Jericho were late-attitude era but worked an incredibly great technical style. Same with Angle. Late attitude era was much better about showcasing technical prowess. At the time that quote was taken from though Jericho and Kurt had more or less just started out in the company and Benoit was still in WCW. The only main eventers running around when that quote was taken was Austin, Rock, and Triple H.
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Feb 5, 2010 20:49
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TL posted:I'd say he's roughly equivalent to John Cena. He's not going to have a great hold-for-hold wrestling match, but he always came up huge in big match situations. Still my main complaint with Austin/Rock was always that 9/10 times if you've seen one of their matches, you've seen them all(especially if it was Rock vs. Austin) and that's the same feeling I get with Cena too. I like all 3 of them much more for their personalities than I do for their wrestling.
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Feb 5, 2010 21:07
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TenaciousJ posted:That sort of move set totally fit into the Stone Cold Steve Austin character. Austin wrestling a technical style after becoming Stone Cold would not have fit the brawling, beer-drinking redneck character. Also I think his neck injury really limited him. I know that. For as much as I enjoyed it, one of my biggest criticisms of the early Attitude Era(for both companies) was how little actual wrestling ability was at the top of the mountain. In the WWE Triple H basically carried that torch until Kurt got his big push and the actually talented guys from WCW started abandoning ship and getting the pushes they deserved in WWE.
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Feb 5, 2010 23:46
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Why did the Undertaker switch his finisher to the Last Ride when he came back as American Badass Taker? With his knees getting shoddier you'd figure he'd move away form moves the require him to support the entire weight of another person on top of him.
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Feb 9, 2010 21:39
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Magic_Ceiling_Fan posted:Pile drivers were banned for a period of time, and are still only used sparingly today, so he needed a new finisher. He did do the tombstone pile driver on Triple H when he returned with the bad rear end gimmick, and that pile driver led to the ban in the first place because Triple H got a stinger from it. I forgot about the pile driver ban, but I thought that was because of Owen breaking Austin's neck? Didn't Steiner have a really ugly botch with his old pile driver finisher that's why he switched finishers too?
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Feb 9, 2010 21:44
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Yea I forgot the name. And I thought he did almost kill somebody with it, which is why he stopped. Forget who though.
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Feb 9, 2010 21:50
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Interesting, on the wikipedia page it says only Undertaker and Kane are cleared to perform piledrivers in the WWE now, but I feel like I've seen other people performing them.
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Feb 9, 2010 22:28
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Minidust posted:What's the source on these move "bans" that have happened from time to time? They always struck me as something that the IWC types just made up during slow news days. I don't know about any others but the piledriver one was real, although they apparently make some exceptions for signature moves. I don't know who makes it official though. It just has to do with the risk of loving up and almost killing someone involved in a move. Piledrivers are on average extremely dangerous even if both people know what they're doing.
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Feb 9, 2010 22:38
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Sionistic posted:Didnt dreamer continue to use piledrivers? Granted I'm not very familiar with his time in WWE-ECW, but I feel the amount of matches Tommy was in that even showcased more than 2 or 3 actual wrestling moves was an incredibly small percentage, let alone how many matches he got to piledrive someone in. I just youtube'd some of Tommy's piledrivers. At least in WWE he seemed to lean back as he fell so his butt took almost all of the impact. They were probably okay with that.
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Feb 10, 2010 06:14
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Yea, Tommy's butt is taking the impact there. I guess it also helps that it's RVD, who is very good and taking and (over)selling bumps. Anyway, people who were talking about how ridiculous the Tombstone is now: You seem to forget the most bullshit piledriver ever, the Rikishi driver: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNzTZCCpPq4&feature=related I don't think I've ever seen him do this where the opponent's head was less than a foot away from the mat when he came down.
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Feb 10, 2010 06:44
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Atticus Finch posted:By the way, this doesn't happen nearly enough anymore. Well, it shouldn't, but it's still a super cool spot. I always liked when they did it in long matches where the opponent has already kicked out of the guy's finisher/signature moves at least once or more. Kinda like a "gently caress it, I'll see if your move works!"
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Feb 10, 2010 07:29
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So how do they work the no-blood policy with something like the Elimination Chamber, where everyone is stuck inside of a cage together and bleeding is pretty much inevitable?
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Feb 10, 2010 17:04
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BrutusBeefcake posted:Someone didn't see the Hell in the Cell PPV. There will be no blood unless it is an accident. As much as it would make sense to only stop intentional bleeding unless it's a serious accident, from what I've come to understand they stop the match because of bleeding under any circumstance.
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Feb 10, 2010 17:39
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Chilly McFreeze posted:WHILE THAT MAY BE, imagine the Undertaker sitting patiently while the doctors work on him during a match. Funny, considering isn't the Undertaker going off about Bob Orton not letting anyone know he had the 'Hep before HIAC the reason no one is allowed to bleed now?
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Feb 10, 2010 18:13
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WeaselWeaz posted:It was weird. The story came out was that Taker and Orton have the same doctor, and Taker found out when his doctor mentioned how surprised he was the he allowed Orton to bleed on him. WWE knew Orton had Hep and he didn't tell Taker because he figured they would have told him. I can't comment on how true it is but the whole thing was just weird. The doctor's exact words were "OH YOU DIDN'T KNOW? YO rear end BETTA CALL SOMEBODAAAAAAAAAAAAAY(a lawyer)!!!" This one has been bugging me for a while: I know they messed around with The Rock's theme a lot without actually changing it that much. Did it always start with "IF YA SMELLLLLLL WHAT THE ROCK IS COOKIN!" or was there ever a "Do you smell what The Rock is cookin'?" My brain wants to say yes, but I honestly don't know if I'm just misremembering things.
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Feb 10, 2010 20:37
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Music in WWE has generally turned into such a huge clusterfuck that it's made me think about making a thread lately. I was just going to ask if there was one already. Music in the attitude era really liked to throw a lot of questions at you: "Do you smell what the Rock is cookin?" "Oh you didn't know? Yo rear end betta call somebodaaaay!" "You think you know me?" "What does everybody want?! Head!" "Are you ready? You think you can tell us what to do? You think you can tell us what to wear?" "CAN YOU DIG IT, SUCKA?"
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Feb 10, 2010 21:13
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Sionistic posted:It was one of the most obvious blade jobs Ive ever seen. That's not half as terrible as this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtBFPDoQpqU Not like blading is good or anything, but I guess when you've got main eventers acting too dumb-assed to even make it look believable you've gotta call it quits.
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Feb 11, 2010 02:41
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Sionistic posted:There was a wrestler who talked about how he would blade midway through that move and toss the blade before he landed, and you could never tell. I wanna say it was HBK but Im not sure. I feel like most wrestlers just do the "take the hit, fall, hold head, blade then" method with hits like that. Really if you can't help but make it obvious you're blading yourself before a hit it's best not to bleed from the hit at all. Unless I guess it's a first blood match.
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Feb 11, 2010 04:41
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Is JBL's run as a main eventer worth looking into at all? I watched wrestling for about a year or so somewhere around the middle/tail end of it and both in the ring and on the mic me and all my friends thought he was just so goddamn awful and boring as poo poo. Is there any part of his run that contradicts this? Also, how in the gently caress did Bradshaw ever get to be a main eventer?
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Feb 12, 2010 07:15
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:This was a terrible time for Smackdown in general, as they were really starved for main eventers, partially because of the brand split, which caused both shows to suffer, and partially because Austin, Rock, Goldberg, and Brock were all gone. This was the obvious motivation for JBL being brought up, and even then Eddie Guerrero had to go to bat for him backstage. Hahahaha christ. I just looked up that ppv. The main event was a handicap match between the dudleys and Undertaker. What the hell?
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Feb 12, 2010 08:23
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