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ansel autisms
Aug 9, 2003

dodge this burn


Bioshuffle posted:

Whoops, I just fixed my settings, so the EXIF data should be available. This was well after the sun had set, but it was still bright outside. The sun had been setting just as I stepped outside. I guess the only way to learn is to take more shots and play around.

Light after sunset is more EV 6 than EV 15 (sun), you seem to be exposing around EV 11 (correct me if I'm wrong!), which is still 6 stops underexposed. And as we all know, zone -1 isn't particularly bright . EV 11 is often described as "sunset", but that's for shooting into a setting sun - not ambient light around the time of sunset.

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Cyberbob
Mar 29, 2006
Prepare for doom. doom. doooooom. doooooom.

Bioshuffle posted:

I'm trying to get the hang of Sunny 16 rule. As the sun as starting to set, I took this shot. There were no shadows, so I put the F-stop at f/ 4.2, ISO 500, and inverse of 500, so 1/500 shutter speed. Absolutely underexposed. What am I loving up here?


DSC_5693 by rustyshackles, on Flickr
1/500 shutter speed, f/4.2, ISO 500.


Seeing as it was underexposed, I decided to bump the ISO to 1000 and it still came out dark.


DSC_5694 by rustyshackles, on Flickr
1/500 shutter speed, f/4.2, ISO 1000.

I finally got something decently useable when I lowered the shutter speed.

DSC_5695 by rustyshackles, on Flickr
1/80 shutter speed, f/4.2, ISO 1000.

Does this mean I just hosed up and grossly underestimated the available lighting? Obviously, I know how to use a light meter but I'm trying to get the hang of the Sunny 16 and I figured I would take the shots anyway and post them here to get some answers and get yelled at for doing something stupid.


Shoot directly into the setting sun with the same settings. Observe differences.

Bioshuffle
Feb 10, 2011

DISREGARD THIS POST, I AM A STUPID ENTITLED TWAT, SCREW THE POOR


dukeku posted:

Light after sunset is more EV 6 than EV 15 (sun), you seem to be exposing around EV 11 (correct me if I'm wrong!), which is still 6 stops underexposed. And as we all know, zone -1 isn't particularly bright . EV 11 is often described as "sunset", but that's for shooting into a setting sun - not ambient light around the time of sunset.
Well, I didn't even consider EV values, I just went off the very basic table. I'll have to study the chart in more detail. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposu...exposure_values is the right one, right? I remember seeing a much detailed and more confusing (probably because I didn't study it in detail) chart.

Cyberbob posted:

Shoot directly into the setting sun with the same settings. Observe differences.
That makes perfect sense! I guess there's nothing wrong with using the meter to figure out the Sunny 16 system, so I should play around with that some more. Thanks for the help everyone!

ansel autisms
Aug 9, 2003

dodge this burn


If you have a meter available to you, just use it. There's no point in learning how to guess something you can read accurately with tools in your hand.

COOL CORN
Jun 1, 2003



dukeku posted:

If you have a meter available to you, just use it. There's no point in learning how to guess something you can read accurately with tools in your hand.

Or, alternatively, guess and then double check with a meter.

An old Japanese man that sold me my meter told me that no real photographer needs a meter, unless he's doing studio flash stuff. (I use a meter)

HPL
Aug 28, 2002

Worst case scenario.

QPZIL posted:

An old Japanese man that sold me my meter told me that no real photographer needs a meter, unless he's doing studio flash stuff. (I use a meter)

Was he also carrying a rangefinder?

COOL CORN
Jun 1, 2003



HPL posted:

Was he also carrying a rangefinder?

He was standing in front of a wall of about 100 Nikons if that counts.

red19fire
May 26, 2010


No, you fools, light meters are a crutch for the weak.

Musket
Mar 19, 2008


Seriously, USE YOUR drat METER instead of trying to guess exposure. It will in time teach you to read light better.

Miso Beno
Apr 29, 2004

Try to Catch Me Ridin' Dirty


So I bought some rad 10x10 gel filters from the Dorkroom Marketplace for my Alien Bee lights and I just wanted to know if there's a better way to hold them in place than some clamps and scotch tape?

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



red19fire posted:

No, you fools, light meters are a crutch for the weak.

He's basically saying "I used light meters for a long time, I learned to meter light, then I was able to stop using it. That means everyone else should never use it because of emotions, involvement and SERIOUS PHOTOGRAPHY".

Musket
Mar 19, 2008


Miso Beno posted:

So I bought some rad 10x10 gel filters from the Dorkroom Marketplace for my Alien Bee lights and I just wanted to know if there's a better way to hold them in place than some clamps and scotch tape?

http://www.paulcbuff.com/litemod.php

Mr. Funny Pants
Apr 9, 2001



I hope this is the appropriate thread to ask this. My wife bought me my first DSLR for Christmas. I got my "nifty 50", read some stuff here and elsewhere and have been able to take some nice pictures (compared to my old point and shoot at least).

I've seen the book recommendations in the first DSLR thread and will probably be grabbing at least one of them soon. My question is, how valuable are actual classes? Is it worth the money and time compared to just loving around with it yourself and picking up stuff from other users?

I'm currently looking at the classes offered by the Cleveland Photographic Society. 30 hours of instruction over six classes for $175. Seem reasonable (or worthwhile)?

http://www.clevelandphoto.org/fundschool.cfm

AceClown
Sep 11, 2005



Mr. Funny Pants posted:

I hope this is the appropriate thread to ask this. My wife bought me my first DSLR for Christmas. I got my "nifty 50", read some stuff here and elsewhere and have been able to take some nice pictures (compared to my old point and shoot at least).

I've seen the book recommendations in the first DSLR thread and will probably be grabbing at least one of them soon. My question is, how valuable are actual classes? Is it worth the money and time compared to just loving around with it yourself and picking up stuff from other users?

I'm currently looking at the classes offered by the Cleveland Photographic Society. 30 hours of instruction over six classes for $175. Seem reasonable (or worthwhile)?

http://www.clevelandphoto.org/fundschool.cfm

Making about 6 bux an hour so I'd expect there to be a lot of people there. Seems OK for something to do on a Saturday for the price, but I'd expect there to be a few "I bought DSLR now me professional $100 wedding pro" people there.

Looking at the course content I'd say that about 80% of that could be picked up in here and on the vast internet, if you're OK with learning by reading thats cool, but if you're a hands on learner then it could be OK I suppose. 175 is hardly anything in photo dollars so I'd say it's not too bad to take a punt on.

Mouser
Feb 14, 2008


Mr. Funny Pants posted:

I hope this is the appropriate thread to ask this. My wife bought me my first DSLR for Christmas. I got my "nifty 50", read some stuff here and elsewhere and have been able to take some nice pictures (compared to my old point and shoot at least).

I've seen the book recommendations in the first DSLR thread and will probably be grabbing at least one of them soon. My question is, how valuable are actual classes? Is it worth the money and time compared to just loving around with it yourself and picking up stuff from other users?

I'm currently looking at the classes offered by the Cleveland Photographic Society. 30 hours of instruction over six classes for $175. Seem reasonable (or worthwhile)?

http://www.clevelandphoto.org/fundschool.cfm

I think anyone can understand the fundamentals independently, but there's a hidden value to classes. It is really difficult to get people to look at your work, and it is even more difficult to get them to give you an honest, educated, thorough critique. Constant feedback -- from your classmates as well as the instructors -- can push you more than just working on your own.

Bioshuffle
Feb 10, 2011

DISREGARD THIS POST, I AM A STUPID ENTITLED TWAT, SCREW THE POOR


dukeku posted:

If you have a meter available to you, just use it. There's no point in learning how to guess something you can read accurately with tools in your hand.

I'm not going to ignore the meter- I'm just trying to get a better understanding of light and exposure. I know it'll come with time and experience, but I figure if I start now, I'll get better at guesstimating in a decade or so.

CarrotFlowers
Dec 17, 2010

Blerg.

Mouser posted:

I think anyone can understand the fundamentals independently, but there's a hidden value to classes. It is really difficult to get people to look at your work, and it is even more difficult to get them to give you an honest, educated, thorough critique. Constant feedback -- from your classmates as well as the instructors -- can push you more than just working on your own.

I would expect that you'd get better feedback here than in a class though. A lot of the time in classes like this, they'll praise you on any piece you can poo poo out and rarely give honest, constructive criticism. The critiques in classes like this remind me of Flickr awards. If you get in class practice with models and lights and stuff, that's where the money is worth it in my opinion. The critique, you'd be better off here unless it's a dedicated degree program or something.

HPL
Aug 28, 2002

Worst case scenario.

Musket posted:

Seriously, USE YOUR drat METER instead of trying to guess exposure. It will in time teach you to read light better.

Yeah. Now when I walk outside and it's a nice day or cloudy but bright day, I think to myself something like: "Looks like an f/11, 1/250 kind of day!"

I don't actually say it out loud because my wife would probably smack me upside the head.

Mouser
Feb 14, 2008


CarrotFlowers posted:

I would expect that you'd get better feedback here than in a class though. A lot of the time in classes like this, they'll praise you on any piece you can poo poo out and rarely give honest, constructive criticism. The critiques in classes like this remind me of Flickr awards. If you get in class practice with models and lights and stuff, that's where the money is worth it in my opinion. The critique, you'd be better off here unless it's a dedicated degree program or something.

Fair enough -- I'm coming at it from a college perspective and I don't know what the tone is like in the class Mr. Funny Pants linked. If it is nothing but back-patting, that is a sad thing.

Shmoogy
Mar 21, 2007


HPL posted:

Yeah. Now when I walk outside and it's a nice day or cloudy but bright day, I think to myself something like: "Looks like an f/11, 1/250 kind of day!"

f/2.8 1/4000 errday

e: Do you guys really calculate EV in your head? I just set to whatever aperture, or shutter speed I want at ISO 400 and go from there.

mysticp
Jul 15, 2004

BAM!

Mr. Funny Pants posted:

I hope this is the appropriate thread to ask this. My wife bought me my first DSLR for Christmas. I got my "nifty 50", read some stuff here and elsewhere and have been able to take some nice pictures (compared to my old point and shoot at least).

I've seen the book recommendations in the first DSLR thread and will probably be grabbing at least one of them soon. My question is, how valuable are actual classes? Is it worth the money and time compared to just loving around with it yourself and picking up stuff from other users?

I'm currently looking at the classes offered by the Cleveland Photographic Society. 30 hours of instruction over six classes for $175. Seem reasonable (or worthwhile)?

http://www.clevelandphoto.org/fundschool.cfm

I used to help teach a class like this a couple of years ago. $35 got you 3 hours in Central Park with up to 25 people (though on average it was about 18). We taught exposure fundamentals, exposure compensation settings, shutter speed and aperture relationships and when to change each (blur vs bokeh basically). How to take portraits to get bokeh effects. A small amount on composition.

As much as it's not really something for a serious photographer, if you know nothing at all about the stuff I mentioned, it was well worth it and we always got great feedback.

I imagine this class will be as advanced as ours, just more depth as you have more time. I would do it as long as $175 isn't going to break the bank. Just the time spent with like minded people and actually talking to them about your hobby and making friends is worth it alone. There is only so much you can learn on a forum or in a book. If you make just one permanent real life photo buddy it's worth it.

Polarize
Jul 12, 2007
The lights go on, the lights go off

I don't know if it'd really be that useful. Not to discredit these classes or anyone here that happens to still teach, but through youtube and just taking lots of pictures trying out different settings would get you to roughly the same place in the end, + $175 that you could possibly use to invest in better glass, a flash, etc.

Looking at the course description, depending on your camera, a lot of things are built in already.

Composition - grid lines on your viewfinder / live view. Rule of thirds for example.

Proper exposure - F-stop determines how much light to let in, shutter speed determines how long to let that light in for. Your camera has very good Auto, Shutter and Aperture priority modes that you can experiment with.

etc.

I think photography schools may just be a carry over from film days. I could understand shelling out the money for classes when there is the cost of wasted film and time for developing but in this digital age, if you take a picture and it's not what you want, you can simply delete it instantly.

CarrotFlowers
Dec 17, 2010

Blerg.

Polarize posted:


Your camera has very good Auto modes that you can experiment with.


Well I found the problem.

Don't use auto mode.

The guy above who said if you can afford it just to meet people is right. I've been doing photography for about a year now, and I just started meeting up with other photographers, and it makes the whole thing so much more rewarding, and you will learn a ton more just shooting with other people. Not to mention you can stop boring your significant other with all your camera talk because you'll have people who are actually interested in hearing it!

So look at what you want to get out of it - if it's critique and poo poo like that, I would pass. If it's to meet other people with the same interests, get assignments that will make you practice, get live instruction instead of reading, etc, then go for it. $175 could be well spent elsewhere, but it could also be well spent there if you're looking to get the right things out of it.

INTJ Mastermind
Dec 30, 2004

It's a radial!

CarrotFlowers posted:

Don't use auto mode.

Seconded. Learning the technical bits - ISO, shutter speed, aperture, sounds intimidating, but it quickly becomes second nature. Think of it as "what am I willing to sacrifice to make this picture work - noise (ISO), blurriness (speed), depth of field (aperture), or a lot of money (5D MkII)."

Captain Postal
Sep 16, 2007


Classes to learn exposure and M mode are a waste of money. Classes to learn composition, technique and to begin to develop your own style with helpful feedback are worth more than the lens you could have bought for what they cost.

Self learn via books like understanding exposure etc. the intro stuff and do more advanced classes if you're down with exposure, M mode and composition fundamentals

And yeah, don't use Auto. You'll learn more from your mistakes than you will from the cameras mistakes.

Captain Postal fucked around with this message at Feb 28, 2012 around 10:10

Musket
Mar 19, 2008


Shmoogy posted:

f/2.8 1/4000 errday

e: Do you guys really calculate EV in your head? I just set to whatever aperture, or shutter speed I want at ISO 400 and go from there.

Actually the rule is f/1.8 1/8000 of a second. Any slower and you need to upgrade your camera or just bump your iso to 3200 on a sunny day to get the max shutter speed. (THIS IS AWFUL ADVICE AND A JOKE new photogs)

I can guess EV pretty good, but the meter is better at it than I am.

XTimmy
Nov 28, 2007
I am Jacks self hatred

So I've come into possession of a Metz 45CT3 flash with a SCA300 handle attachment. I'm wanting to see if I can hook this up to my 5dmk2 with TTL or AE1 with PC Sync but my research has not been going well, Metz's part numbering system is quite complex and convoluted. Does anyone here know anything about these systems?

TheLastManStanding
Jan 14, 2008
Mash Buttons!

As far as I know, PC doesn't support ttl (it's just a high and a ground so I don't see how it could, but I could be wrong). If you mean you're just trying to hook it up then you'll have to test it to see what the trigger voltage is.

TheLastManStanding fucked around with this message at Mar 2, 2012 around 07:02

XTimmy
Nov 28, 2007
I am Jacks self hatred

TheLastManStanding posted:

As far as I know, PC doesn't support ttl (it's just a high and a ground so I don't see how it could, but I could be wrong). If you mean you're just trying to hook it up then you'll have to test it to see what the trigger voltage is.

I understand what PC Sync is what I mean is that I'd like to hook it up to my 5dmk2 for TTL, but if that fails PC sync it to my AE1, since (insofar as I know) that doesn't do TTL.

SoulChicken
Sep 19, 2003

mek it fuhnki

I need to sell my Canon 7d and two Sigma lenses. What is a convenient way to sell them, am I stuck with Craigslist? I hear that people sell their glass all the time, what are the best means of doing this?

edit: worked it out for myself. Goons>craigslist>KEH

SoulChicken fucked around with this message at Mar 2, 2012 around 20:46

MrBlandAverage
Jul 2, 2003

GNNAAAARRRR

XTimmy posted:

I understand what PC Sync is what I mean is that I'd like to hook it up to my 5dmk2 for TTL, but if that fails PC sync it to my AE1, since (insofar as I know) that doesn't do TTL.

In case it wasn't clear, your 5D2 has a PC sync socket as well.

XTimmy
Nov 28, 2007
I am Jacks self hatred

MrBlandAverage posted:

In case it wasn't clear, your 5D2 has a PC sync socket as well.

Haha, yup, but I'd very much like to see if this thing can do TTL, and also Metz flashes don't have the traditional sync plug so I'm at a loss there too.

VVV This made me note that they're similar models so I should be able to get away with similar cables. Now I need to find a store to go test my theories.

XTimmy fucked around with this message at Mar 2, 2012 around 15:44

Musket
Mar 19, 2008


XTimmy posted:

So I've come into possession of a Metz 45CT3 flash with a SCA300 handle attachment. I'm wanting to see if I can hook this up to my 5dmk2 with TTL or AE1 with PC Sync but my research has not been going well, Metz's part numbering system is quite complex and convoluted. Does anyone here know anything about these systems?

Should be the right set of instructions... Couldnt find a 45CT3 manual, just the 4.

http://www.metzflash.co.uk/pdffiles/45CL4_e.pdf

a foolish pianist
May 6, 2007
deadlift minimalist

I've got a general question about constant aperture zooms. Why the constant aperture? In a 70-200/2.8, at 200mm, to get f/2.8, the lens has an ~71.5mm entrance pupil. As you zoom out, though, to keep the aperture constant, the entrance pupil closes down to 25mm once you hit 70mm.

Why the change in entrance pupil over the range? It seems like you would want to leave the entrance pupil as wide as possible, constant over the zoom range.

HPL
Aug 28, 2002

Worst case scenario.

a foolish pianist posted:

Why the change in entrance pupil over the range? It seems like you would want to leave the entrance pupil as wide as possible, constant over the zoom range.

I'm no optics guy, but I'm guessing (wildly) that if you kept the entrance pupil the same size, the front element would have to be massively massive by the time you get to the wide end of the zoom. It probably has something to do with FOV and the angle of the light rays coming in.

a foolish pianist
May 6, 2007
deadlift minimalist

I was thinking that myself, but the front element already has to be somewhat bigger than 72mm in diameter on a 70-200, so that doesn't seem like it'd be a problem.

Clayton Bigsby
Apr 17, 2005



The entrance pupil is defined as viewed through the front of the lens, so the real question is the size of the physical aperture at the longer focal lengths, which may well be restrictive.

Other than that, I would wager that the lens would simply sacrifice too much quality for it to be useful. Look for instance at Olympus' 35-100/2.0 which uses a telecompressor that would theoretically make a 35-100/1.4 but opted not to do so because of IQ and design constraints.

David Pratt
Apr 21, 2001

I'm running out of places to hide the bodies


I've been doing photography for a while, and think I get the aperture/shutter speed/iso trifecta. Should I still buy Understanding Exposure?

geeves
Sep 16, 2004



David Pratt posted:

I've been doing photography for a while, and think I get the aperture/shutter speed/iso trifecta. Should I still buy Understanding Exposure?

It's worth the read, check it out from the library. But it's very very basic.

Last fall I bought The Speedlighter's Handbook and it had far more useful with detailed information about the camera and its settings that was useful before it got in to talking about using a flash.

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Captain Postal
Sep 16, 2007


David Pratt posted:

I've been doing photography for a while, and think I get the aperture/shutter speed/iso trifecta. Should I still buy Understanding Exposure?

If you're metering off a tree and know how much to compensate for it not being 18% grey, or metering off a subjects face in shadow and know how to adjust your metering to get the sky to not blow out in the background and so on, then no you don't need it. If you can't answer those sorts of questions, try to borrow a copy rather than buy.

Much of the book is how to compensate to expose correctly when you don't have or can't use a grey card.

Captain Postal fucked around with this message at Mar 7, 2012 around 20:34

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