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LorneReams
Jun 27, 2003
I'm bizarre

Gripen5 posted:

Outside of the increase in the cigarette tax and the AIG bonus taxes, has taxes even changed at all in the last 8 months? I don't see how a single thing that grumpy Gramps brings up has anything to do with Obama other than that Ashely campaigned for him and then decided to shove it in her relatives' faces that he won.

That's the underlying message right there. If you want gramps to help, you have to beleive what he believes, even if he is a bit racist and senile.

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unnoticed
Nov 29, 2005

That's odd...

Gripen5 posted:

Outside of the increase in the cigarette tax and the AIG bonus taxes, has taxes even changed at all in the last 8 months? I don't see how a single thing that grumpy Gramps brings up has anything to do with Obama other than that Ashely campaigned for him and then decided to shove it in her relatives' faces that he won.

Did the AIG bonus tax actually pass? I thought it died in the Senate

Vilerat
May 11, 2002


Hey sure Bush owns, whatever. Now gimme some money gramps.

Megiddo
Apr 27, 2004

Unicorns bite, but their bites feel GOOD.

Wanna disown that grandpa

Toasticle
Jul 18, 2003

Hay guys, check this out!

I'm sure he identifies with poor grandpa seeing what a miserable uninformed poo poo he is. I don't know exactly what he's worth but it's probably around 5 million, he lives off investment income and the money from the company I work for.

He was bitching to me a few days ago about how much Obama has hosed up the economy and maybe 2 minutes later was talking about how he's up 88k in the market. He was bitching about the proposed top rate tax increase and over the next few minutes of talking to him I discovered he not only did not know how tax brackets worked he didn't know what they were. He thought the 36-39.6% rate increase affacted everyone from $1 a year income up. The money he has? It's not going to his kids, he's donating it to the University of Miami. Well he was until he found out he wasn't getting enough interest off the donation or something, I do't know or care about the details of how that worked. One kid doesn't talk to him at all, the other a couple times a year. He moved away from florida and the few friends he has because his country club was being overrun by jews. So he moved to middle of nowewhere, AZ.

Part of job has become listening to him ramble every day for 20-30 minutes. I drift back and forth between feeling sorry for him since he's alone and has nobody to talk to then he starts talking about them blacks being too stupid to know otherwise by voting against their self interests because they voted for Obama and I remember he's alone because nobody can stand listening to him for more than a few minutes. He has 500 reasons why Obama is destroying the country and why he needs to go stock up on canned soup and ammo but 3 years ago he stormed out of his barbershop that he went to for ten years never to return because they had MSNBC on the TV and someone said something bad about Bush.

I'm trying to quit smoking but I need 3 every morning just to make it through the daily phone call with him.

dumb brunette
Mar 17, 2009

I admire man's ability to see beauty in everything! Even a flame!


Toasticle posted:

letter from grandpa

That poor cousin who can't take his yearly trips to Greenland anymore.

RagnarokAngel
Oct 5, 2006

D:


It's always hella depressing how the person that represents the Democrats spends money like crazy for frivolous things and is never something like a single mother who works 2 jobs to make less than $20k and still struggles to support her kids because growing up she was in the same situation and as a result couldn't make it to college.

But you know that never happens.

CombineThresher
Apr 10, 2006

GIT R DONNE


Gripen5 posted:

Outside of the increase in the cigarette tax and the AIG bonus taxes, has taxes even changed at all in the last 8 months? I don't see how a single thing that grumpy Gramps brings up has anything to do with Obama other than that Ashely campaigned for him and then decided to shove it in her relatives' faces that he won.

I'm laughing at the "flashy hybrid car" bit for reasons that are obvious to anybody who's seen one.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

Hockey is a game of love, man.


CombineThresher posted:

I'm laughing at the "flashy hybrid car" bit for reasons that are obvious to anybody who's seen one.

In gramps' mind, "flashy hybrid car" probably brings up vivid images of those things from Back to the Future 3.

Armyman25
Sep 6, 2005


Who the gently caress asks their grandparents for money? Mine certainly don't have any extra, most what they do get goes towards medical bills.

Shouldn't she be asking her folks?

Gripen5
Nov 3, 2003

'Startocaster' is more fun to say than I expected.

Armyman25 posted:

Who the gently caress asks their grandparents for money? Mine certainly don't have any extra, most what they do get goes towards medical bills.

Shouldn't she be asking her folks?

One of the important "morals" of the story is likely the "generation gap," because kids today... they don't "get it."

I'm sure I could have used more quotation marks, but I already feel dirty from using so many.

Ortsacras
Feb 11, 2008
12/17/00 Never Forget

Armyman25 posted:

Who the gently caress asks their grandparents for money? Mine certainly don't have any extra, most what they do get goes towards medical bills.

Shouldn't she be asking her folks?

Geez, you mean you don't have family money? The very idea! Guess your ancestors should have bootstrapped a little better!

Anosmoman
Jun 15, 2006



dumb brunette posted:

That poor cousin who can't take his yearly trips to Greenland anymore.

To survey polar bears - clearly a liberal eco-hippie who's also only getting by with the help of good old, hard working grandpa. Kind of weird they threw skydiving in there though - I guess when a sport isn't about teams of sweaty guys brutalizing each other or large engines it must be liberal or something.

Matlock
Sep 12, 2004

Childs Play Charity 2011 Total: $1755


Toasticle posted:

Got this one over the weekend from my boss. I guess this is the new version of the "welcome to the republican party "


I revised the message to make it more concise and less subtle:

quote:

Maybe this will wake some of the younger folks up. This is really hitting the nail on the head as far as I am concerned.


Letter from Grandpa

John G. is 63 years old and owns a small business. He's a life-long
Republican and sees his dream of retiring next year has all but
evaporated. With the stock market crashing and new taxes coming his way,
John assumes now that he will work to his dying day.

John has a granddaughter. Ashley is a recent college grad. She drives a
flashy hybrid car, wears all the latest fashions, and loves to go out to
nightclubs and restaurants. Ashley campaigned hard for Barak Obama.
After the election she made sure her grandfather (and all other
Republican family members) received a big I told-you-so earful on how
the world is going to be a much better place now that her party is
taking over.

Having lost both roommates, Ashley recently ran short of cash and cannot
pay the rent (again) on her 3 bedroom townhouse. Like she has done many
times in the past, she emailed her grandfather asking for some financial
help. Here is his reply:

Sweetheart,

You voted for a negro and we spent all your college money on a new Corvette Z06 before his Socialist regime takes that from us.

Good luck, sweetheart.

Love,

Grandpa.

Matlock fucked around with this message at Sep 21, 2009 around 01:10

JodoKaast
Apr 18, 2001

An All-in-One and One-in-All of limitless being and self


publicblast posted:

Good thing there were no payroll taxes before Obama took office. Them sure was the good ol' days.
Not to mention Obama making the stock market crash. How could he?!

LorneReams
Jun 27, 2003
I'm bizarre

Grandpa probably has his money tied up with some Nigerians that hooked him up with a tax haven in response to Obama winning the election. He could get the money back, but it would cost an upfront fee that he dosen't have right now.

Arkadies
Oct 21, 2006

by angerbot


RagnarokAngel posted:

It's always hella depressing how the person that represents the Democrats spends money like crazy for frivolous things and is never something like a single mother who works 2 jobs to make less than $20k and still struggles to support her kids because growing up she was in the same situation and as a result couldn't make it to college.

But you know that never happens.

Maybe she'd have more grocery money if she stopped skydiving. Simple math, really.

Bozz
Jan 26, 2002



Habibi posted:

I've found, in my experience, that often the best response when people degenerate into spewing, "Hurr the government isn't the solution it's always the problem," is to backhand the person across the face and yell, "Hey moron! - Government was created in the first place specifically to be the solution to a whole host of problems."

Hahaha, yes, I agree.

Here's the latest from the nut factory:

quote:

To fulfill a mandate? What mandate? I thought it was to bring honesty and transparency to government? If the mandate is fascism, then yes, he is doing it.

There are two minorities I represent, the people who work and pay for all of this bull poo poo he is proposing. Of coarse, I am also a part of the most oppressed group in the nation. You can tax ... Read Morethe piss out of the rich, they will increase the price of goods and services, and lay people off. Kind of like when gas was $4.00 per gallon causing prices on everthing to shoot up. Middle class pays ultimatley.

Reality? please explain government in every aspect of life (may not be under Obama, but the trend is spiraling that way especially under O) Taxing the piss out of every breath you take and anything you do. Punishing those who sacrifice, make good decisions and rewarding worthless people. WHERE IS THE FREEDOM? How can you choose to ignore the corruption? We will be Mexico if we continue to ignore this.

edit: also to note, he's a 26 year old white dude. IM OPPRESSED BY THE FASCIST

Bozz fucked around with this message at Sep 22, 2009 around 15:01

Ortsacras
Feb 11, 2008
12/17/00 Never Forget

Bozz posted:

edit: also to note, he's a 26 year old white dude. IM OPPRESSED BY THE FASCIST

I'm quite curious how much he gets paid.

Bozz
Jan 26, 2002



Ortsacras posted:

I'm quite curious how much he gets paid.

$12 an hour working at a job where he cooks nuts.

Ortsacras
Feb 11, 2008
12/17/00 Never Forget

Bozz posted:

$12 an hour working at a job where he cooks nuts.

It's uncanny.

Bozz
Jan 26, 2002



Ortsacras posted:

It's uncanny.

He also has a felony drug dealing conviction.

The amount of self delusion is incredible.

Ortsacras
Feb 11, 2008
12/17/00 Never Forget

Bozz posted:

He also has a felony drug dealing conviction.

The amount of self delusion is incredible.

Buy him some bootstraps for his birthday - I'm sure he'll appreciate the good wishes.

All Else Failed
Jun 28, 2003

I SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS

Has anyone gotten the e-mail going around about the 9-12-09 "protests" in D.C.? I am currently embattled in a long e-mail discussion with my dad thanks to me replying to every person forwarded this e-mail that the commentary with each picture is a load of poo poo. Thought you guys might be interested in this refutation... he is copy/pasting some of the things I said and then arguing against them, my replies to his replies are bolded. Unfortunately, as impressed as I am with the argument I've put together (typically I have a hard time explaining everything I've seen and the knowledge I've amassed from these forums and elsewhere) I think he'll just find a way not to listen.

Unfortunately for you, I've been debating in this format of bulletpoint and reply since I was sixteen. My replies will be in bold.)

oh baby this one may get ugly so put on your seat belts. I am making this reply because I want some to educate me. if you know what you are talking about it should be very easy...

we are just going to do the math, keeping personal opinion out of it

That's weird, this e-mail is quite devoid of mathematics and chock full of personal opinion. Nothing wrong with that but you shouldn't claim otherwise.

lets start by asking the simple questions

1. if health care was free how many more times would you ( or anybody else as far as that goes) go to the doctor , emergancy room or ask for any medical attention???/ if it were free I guarantee everybody would be going to the doctor / receive&n bsp; more medical care than they curently do.

I know I would ,,, but then again if you knew how infrequent I have gone the last 25 years you would be very surprised.

No, I wouldn't be surprised.

Im figuring , just a pure ball park guess between 10 and 50% more medical attention would have to be paid for, just from the fact they it was offered for free. are we going to be able to reduce the expenses of each proceedure by upto 50%

There is no math here, you're "ballparking" it. Absolutely, especially at first, the amount of medical care being received would spike. What does that tell you? People want care and cannot receive it in the richest country in the world.

2. I would like to know where you got these "hard statistics" from.... because simple supply and demand would argue differently, and nobody can argue supply and demand, so I 20would like to see these hard statistics.

You cannot just invoke supply and demand as a phrase and that's that, but it's obvious you don't quite understand how insurance works. The larger the risk pool you have, the more money you have available to effectively treat the sick; to pay out. As it is now, there are thousands of healthcare providers with smaller, fragmented risk pools. This means it is much less feasible to cover the sick when they need it -- and since right now the healthcare system's goal is financial gain and not helping the infirm, this means healthcare companies have a vested interest in collecting from you when you're healthy, and dropping you for some technicality when it's time to pay.

3. Im not sure how at the beginning of a paragraph someone can say "Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see." and then turn around later in the same paragraph say " hard statistics" I would like to see them not just hear about them, remember dont believe anything I hear ????? wow that was such a contradicting paragraph that i'm still in a daze.

Sorry, didn't know I was writing a dissertation in these e-mails... only now can I include more detail as every e-mail before this was written on my cell phone. I suspect any sources I include will not be satisfactory for you for some reason, anyway, but I'll include them. You want some hard statistics with sources -- here you go.

* The United States is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not have a universal health care system. Source: Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences
*

* In 2006, the percentage of Americans without health insurance was 15.8%, or approximately 47 million uninsured people. Source: US Census Bureau
*

* Among the 84.2% with health insurance in 2006, coverage was provided through an employer 59.7%, purchased individually 9.1%, and 27.0% was government funded (Medicare, Medicaid, Military). (There is some overlap in coverage figures.) Source: US Census Bureau
*

* The primary reason given for lack of health insurance coverage in 2005 was cost (more than 50%), lost job or a change in employment (24%), Medicaid benefits stopped (10%), ineligibility for family insurance coverage due to age or leaving school (8%). Source: National Center for Health Statistics
*

* More than 40 million adults stated that they needed but did not receive one or more of these health services (medical care, prescription medicines, mental health care, dental care, or eyeglasses) in 2005 because they could not afford it. Source: National Center for Health Statistics
*

* Medicaid, which accounted for 12.9% of health care coverage in 2006, is a health insurance program jointly funded by the federal and state governments to provide health care for qualifying low-income individuals. Source: US Census Bureau
*

* Medicare, a federally funded health insurance program that covers the health care of most individuals 65 years of age and over and disabled persons, accounted for 13.6% of health care coverage in 2006. Source: US Census Bureau
*

* Medicare operates with 3% overhead, non-profit insurance 16% overhead, and private (for-profit) insurance 26% overhead. Source: Journal of American Medicine 2007
* In 2005, personal health care expenditur es were paid by private health insurance 36%, federal government 35%, state and local governments 11% , and out-of-pocket payments 15%. Source: National Center for Health Statistics
*

* The United States spends twice as much on health care per capita ($7,129) than any other country . . . and spending continues to increase. In 2005, the national health care expenditures totaled $2 trillion. Source: National Center for Health Statistic
*

* 75% of all health care dollars are spent on patients with one or more chronic conditions, many of which can be prevented, including diabetes, obesity, heart disease, lung disease, high blood pressure, and cancer. Source: Health Affairs
*

* From 2000 to 2006, overall inflation has increased 3.5%, wages have increased 3.8%, and health care premiums have increased 87%. Source: Kaiser Family Foundation
* The average family health insurance premium, provided through an employer health benefit program, was $11,480 in 2006. Employees paid an average of $2,973 towards the premium amount. Source: Kaiser Family Foundation
*

* The United States ranks 43rd in lowest i nfant mortality rate, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990. Singapore has the lowest rate with 2.3 deaths per 1000 live births, while the United States has a rate of 6.3 deaths per 1000 live births. Some of the other 42 nations that have a lower infant mortality rate than the US include Hong Kong, Slovenia, and Cuba. Source: CIA Factbook (2008)
*

* Approximately 30,000 infants die in the United States each year. The infant mortality rate, which is the risk of death during the first year of life, is related to the underlying health of the mother, public health practices, socioeconomic conditions, and availability and use of appropriate health care for infants and pregnant women. Sources: CDC and National Center for Health Statistics
*

* Life expectancy at birth in the US is an average of 78.14 years, which ranks 47th in highest total life expectancy compared to other countries. Source: CIA Factbook (2008)
*

* About half of the bankruptcy filings in the United States are due to medical expenses. Source: Health Affairs Journal 2005



and if anybody wants a simple lesson ; on how supply and demand works. just ask yourself how many more times would you do something if it cost less??? you pick the activity that you like doing and if you have an open mind you will quickly learn the basics about supply and demand.

As you can see, we have the supply to meet the demand just like every other industrialized nation. The private health sector are simply keeping the money for themselves. It's alright to admit that you're wrong on this -- decades of propaganda have been disseminated to fool you into thinking that what is happening in regards to healthcare in this country is somehow for your benefit.

4 "hijacked by people who do nothing but scream louder than the next guy" are you implying that only one party does that, only one group of people do that. I only started paying attention to politics in 88 and gradually have been paying more attention each election especially the last few, and even more and more between election and nothing gets my go at more than when One side complains about something the other side did and their own team does the same thing. are you kidding me????

When did I say anything about parties doing this? You are so entrenched in the two party system, so convinced by Fox News pundits that it's "us vs. them" that you are viewing everything I say as being on the Democrats' side. I'm on the side of whoever fixes the problems that are plaguing millions of Americans -- the Democrats appeal to that but when push comes to shove, such as with the current failure of a bill Baucus is trying to push through, they serve the lobbyists and private interests over the people 9 times out of 10. I am not a Democrat. I will say that the Republican party has been hijacked over the last few decades by Cheney/Rumsfeld and yes, that party is currently doing the most damage to our country. Doesn't mean I think Democrats have done a drat thing about it.


5. "People out there are dying of preventable and treatable illnesses" that was a dusey ( did I speel that right).

illness,,,, man that makes it sound like someones got a cold and if they only had 75$ for the office call they could have been given a $4 prescription and they would have been alive today. Im just letting you know how using the right words makes things sound a certain way.

"Using the right words"? You're looking at the word "illness" that way -- why, I have no idea.
ill;ness
Show Spelled Pronunciation [il-nis]
–noun
1. unhealthy condition; poor health; indisposition; sickness.
2. Obsolete. wickedness.

Synonyms:
1. ailment, affliction, infirmity.


yes Im sure they are people out there dying because they couldnt afford a 500,000$ treatment/operation or what ever else they may have needed to combat this known problem. but I want to see the line of people who are willing to pay for this ( what ever it is that is needed). lets not fool ourselve it is all about the almighty dollar, people dont work for fun, doctors dont take the risks, spend the money and time to get educated and build a practice just because they want to help people, go ahead and take away the money and we will see how many doctors want to become doctors, and since we are on it how many teachers will become teachers, people can try to create an image but all the smart people know it is about the money, if it wasnt that would work moany more hour than they currently do.

everybody cant have all of the medical attention that is available because we dont have the people that it would be needed to pay for it all. these are simple facts. and if&nb sp; Im worng proof it and we already know that I cant believe anything I read so please make it credible.

All of these statements are assumptions. You're not basing this in fact at all. You are making up numbers and using them as the justification for why you're saying what you're saying. You're wrong because based on the model of every other system in the industrialized world, they can treat every person. Again, the risk pool is larger and thus allows the small portion of people who cost money to insure still get what they need.

6. "dupe millions of americans into fighting against their own interests." people right now are fighting to keep what they have because that is what they want. are you telling me that they dont even know what is in their best interests???? wow educate me please.... dont get me wrong , I will not lie, both side will paint a picture that makes their arguement look best I see it all the time but most people dont, most people are blindd, and if you can't see as many& nbsp; things wrong with your party as you do with the opposit party on how they act and behave you are indeed blind.

First you say "people know what is in their best interests". Then you directly contradict yourself my being "most people are blind". Which is it? I'm going to side with the latter. Again, the amount of misinformation being spewed by guys like O'Reilly and Beck ALONE is enough to blind people who watch that trash.


7.
Socialism refers to various theories of economic organisation advocating public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources, and a society characterised by equal access to resources for all individuals with an egalitarian method of compensation. It is characterised by unequal distribution of wealth and compensation according to work done. [1][2][3] Contrary to popular belief, socialism is not a political system; it is an economic system distinct from capitalism.
Most socialists share the view that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital and derives its wealth through exploitation, creates an unequal society, does not provide equal opportunities for everyone to maximise their potentialities and does not utilise technology and resources to their maximum potential nor in the interests of the public.


do we really want to discuss the advantages of capitalism vs the pitfalls of socialism. if so,, someone should really learn the true meaning of what socialism is20and the long term effect it will have on their way of life.

Im going to put it in simplest terms,

the people who want capitalism and the ones who desire the opportunity to earn most from the extra effort that they make and the people who want socialism are those who want the opportunity to get more from less effort.

look around at the people you know and really look at them. there are those who work hard and those who dont and many degrees in between. if you were not going to receive extra (what every) from the extra effort that you make I gurantee the majority of the people in this world will make less effort, and that is what socialism promotes. the sttitude of not working as hard as you other wise would if you were going to receive extra benefits for your hard work. this is so obvious to anybody who has ever really analized the issue, instead of just thinking of what they were going to get out of it., or how they were going to benefit from others peoples effort.

Ah, the ole' "bootstraps" myth. Listen, you grew up in a household where your parents were caring and loving. They looked out for you, taught you the best they could, sent you to school, and instilled in you a hard work ethic. That's fantastic. What you fail to realize is that not everyone is given this upbringing and privilege. It is extremely hard to rise from nothing to a lot. The system is built in such a way, currently, that it's drat near impossible. If hard work was all that mattered, I think you would have been a multi-millionaire a decade ago. But no, you are still stuck in a middle management job for a paltry salary -- why? It's not that you haven't worked more than anyone I know. It's that it's just. not. that. simple.

You're nuts if you think that we don't already have, like many governments, socialist policies in some ways. Your taxes pay for roads, schools, clean water, firefighters, police, medical research, etc etc etc. We take for granted what the collective power of our taxes does for us -- how is that not socialism in and of itself? And since it is a method of socialism, would you prefer to build your own roads or hire someone to do=2 0it who can gouge the prices because hey, everyone needs roads. The free market is not correcting healthcare in this instance because healthcare is much different from other industries -- in that people who need its service are sick or dying.





8.imperialism

The policy of extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political hegemony over other nations.

big words in there, but I would like to know what authority does the United states have over germany. over japan, over any other country that we have gone to war with. and beat... none that I know of.

Well, the most obvious answer to that is that Japan doesn't have their own military force -- we provide one. I'd say that gives us some level of authority. Although, hilariously enough, the fact that we decided to enact this policy led to the complete booming of Japan as they could then focus their tax dollars elsewhere instead of on a bloated and wasteful military.

lets check our history lesson.

I am still waiting for just one person to show me any world power in all of time in history where the strongest didnt go out and conquer for their own financial gain. I have not seem the financial gain from our efforts in iraq. I know they said we were there for the oil, we I still havent received my share yet. that war has cost me and every other american money and not a one of us has been paid our royalty yet.

You're contradicting yourself again. NO poo poo YOU HAVEN'T RECEIVED YOUR SHARE. The wealth is amassed by the private contractors who reap the benefits of Iraq's resources. You really think they give two shits about the American people and saving them money? No. This is unreigned capitalism, after all -- if you want the profits perhaps you should have bought a President and invaded a country under false pretenses. You just didn't work hard enough... give me a break.

should we have done it , you bet your life? we should have... which will be discussed later.

we are the only world power in history where&nb sp; we havent conquered for the sake of taking for our own. name the world power and I will be educated, it has always been that way since the beginning of time right upto present day united states the 20th century. I guess Im waiting for the 51st state. the one that become a state because we conquered an existing country. opps hasnt happened yet,

all we have done the last 100 years is paid our hard earned cash to help others, yes there has been benefit in it for us but the risk reward has not been in our favor.

Every war we have entered was entered for political reasons, not for the sake of helping other nations. We didn't even enter WWII, arguably one of the only wars worth fighting, until we were personally attacked well into the war. You're naive if you think that we are the good cop out there kickin' rear end for freedom and to help the little guy all the time.



9. im running out of numbers, so I have to pick the best two remaining.

We are involved in wars of imperialism, again for the private interests reaping mass profit from the war. private interest. making it sound like they are the only ones that benefit when ever benefits are realized.

even if one wants to make that argument, who does benefit.

the thousands that realize a job from those private interests.

the thousands that realize spcial care and medical care from the taxes that are realized by the government from the profits that are created

the thousands of other businesses that are able to sustain life from the demands that are created from these evil private interests.

and to top it off these private interests take that money and they hourd it, they put it in their pillow cases and keep it to themselves, opps no they dont they spend that money, creating demand for additional jobs, they inve st that money creating additional jobs and successful businesses. so many poeple benefit fro these private interests that are reaping the mass profit from the war it isnt even funny. that is even if you wanted to play that card. but im sure by now fewer people are willing to do so.

What you're talking about is trickle down economics. Reagan was wrong, sorry. The people deserve their health more than the healthcare industry deserves its massive profits.


I myself can argue the benefits of beating up the meaanies of the world . lets put it this way If I lived in one of those depressed countries, just as yourself, i would expect that the people who had the power to help me wwould do so, opps again, we got it easy why should we go out of our way to help others.

if you want to label imperialism as offering others the same opportunities and fr eedoms that we have, then I am an imperialist.

You've been lied to. We are not offering the freedoms and opportunities we have by killing civilians in their own country. Not to mention, our freedoms and opportunities are drying up pretty fast as long as corporations control the government through lobbyism and our personal freedoms are taken away due to acts like the "P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act" and "Homeland Security".

10 lastly

We were lied to by the Bush administration about WMDs and now servicemen and women are paying the price with their lives...

you didnt want to go there either, wmd weapons of mass distruction.

I am willing to bet that someone probably most of the people in this email have no idea that it is fair to say they had WMD's we know they had them because we gave them to him. if you want to argue what a wmd is I guess we can go around in circles with that one, but in my humble opinion. what he used was a wmd to kill the kurds and we knew he ha d them because we gave them to him.

does anybody remember the kurds I think that is how you spell it, yes in the northern territories of iraq lived the kurds

The Iran-Iraq war during the 1980s and the Anfal genocide campaign of the Iraqi army devastated the population and nature of Kurdistan. Following the 1991 uprising of the Kurdish people against Saddam Hussein, the Kurds were forced to flee the country to become refugees in bordering regions of Iran and Turkey.

saddam killed thousands of them, he gased them in their villiages men women and children and does anybody want to guess what he used, a wmd a weapon of mass distruction he gased them to death.

educate me, someon e , anyone, please educate me

I understand the plight of the Kurds and what Hussein was doing to his people. Not everything is black and white -- good things can come from awful things and vice versa. However, claiming that we were in Iraq to help the Kurds is straight insanity. If that's the case, why aren't we currently waging war on Rwanda or Darfur? Genocide is ans has been committed in those countries for an extended period of time. Why didn't we invade Brazil, Tibet, Ethiopia, Argentina, Lebanon, or any of the other nations who have have subject to genocide? Because there is no gain for us in that. You, again, are being lied to.

11. I'm not saying to fly off the handle -- I just want people to understand that I, like most liberals, want a better life for the American citizen. The real one working forty hours a week to not even make ends meet anymore -- not the elite corporate interests that exploit the people for unbridled financial gain.


show me one person who is who is fighting for the elite corporate interests who exploit the people for unbridled financial gain.

Lobbyists fight for corporate interests by giving money to politicians. Why would they need to do this if what the corporations wanted passed as law was not detr imental to the people?

last time I looked, nobody is required to work for their curent employer so explain the exploitation that you speak about. if there was true exploitation people wouldnt work for them and they would go out of business or they would have to stop exploiting their employes.

Nobody is forced at gunpoint to work for their employer, sure. But there are economic and social forces at work that keep people stuck. Do you work for Office Depot because you want to, or because you HAVE to in order to support yourself and your family? I am a great example of this -- I am a bill collector. I am an advocate against corporate interests and yet I call people telling them to pay major banks for the loans they've gotten. I don't want to be doing this, in fact I think it's morally reprehensible. But I was born in Western New York. Buffalo is one of the poorest cities in the country -- part of the "rust belt". And because of that, bill collecting is the NUMBER ONE employer in this area. Are we bill collectors because we want to be, or because in this area it is the best way to make a living especially without forking over tens of thousands just to get an education and HOPE you find a job with yo ur degree? (oddly enough, the U.S. is one of few industrialized countries who doesn't pay for their students to attend college with our own tax dollars... hmmm.)

and lets ask ourselves who are these evil corporations.

the stock hoolders ???? which basically includes every one of us that have a 401 k / retirement account / or owns stock in one of these meany corporations. anybody who owns stock in one of these corporations in part or in whole is a real hypocrate. Im sure that not you though.

the employees who benefit by cashing their payroll check

the CEO who generally lassts a short few years in the position

corporations are us, we encourage everything they do by patronizing them good and services, by investing into them and by working for them,
WE ARE THE EVIL CORPORATION but just pretend that we arent.

I guess Im done now and will waite to be educated I am always looking to learn more

mike

The "evil" corporations are the decision-makers. Sure, they have a duty to make profit for their shareholders. But when it comes to healthcare, the end should not be profit but helping your fellow citizens and yourself by costing us less money for better care, the same way that every other first world nation has done. Most employees are employees of corporations because they have to support themselves -- and the vast majority of these employees aren't making the decisions. The CEO only last a few years because he gets so filthy rich from those few years that he can retire to the Bahamas if he so chooses. The rich get richer, after all.

I'll leave you with this: the UK is way ahead of us on the World Health Organizations ranking of health care around the world. They instilled the National Health Service (the third largest employer in the entire world in 2009, employing more than one in twenty employed people in the United Kingdom, by the way) on July 5th, 1948 -- directly following the carnage of WWII. If during that low point the nations of the UK could come together and ensure that any citizen from the UK could get treatment in any nation belong to the UK at no or very little cost to them, why can' t we as Americans band together and demand that during this low point of our history, we want to be taken care of with our own tax dollars? Because the private sector does not want people to have affordable insurance -- theyw ant to continue gouging prices and denying claims all the way to the bank.

Glenn Beck himself went through the healthcare system not too long ago and decried the current system as being awful. Months later, he is saying we have the best in the world. Why do you think that is? He and others like him are on TV to mislead people and brainwash them with lies to the point they, yes, they will act against their best interests out of fear -- fear that was purposefully instilled in them by right wing pundits and politicians. http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/t...eck-s-operation

I've taken about an hour and a half out of my day to calmly try and explain to you that I am not speaking out of ignorance or out of some false sense of superiority, but out of despair because all I want is for the American people to have it better and I want them to stop buying the lies being screamed at them from every side. So don't take two seconds to decide that I am wrong -- truly think about and look around the internet for good sources on this and you will see -- there is a War on the American People being waged by the ruling, upper class.

"In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a r elatively few hands. As of 2004, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 34.3% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 50.3%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 85%, leaving only 15% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth (total net worth minus the value of one's home), the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 42.2%. Table 1 and Figure 1 present further details drawn from the careful work of economist Edward N. Wolff at New York University (2007)."

Think about that and tell me -- why don't you, the hardest working guy I know, and me, one of the most compassionate people you will ever meet -- why don't we deserve a bigger piece of the pie? Why don't we deserve to pursue life, liberty, and happiness without worrying about getting sick in the richest country in the world?

bgaesop
Nov 1, 2005

by Y Kant Ozma Post


That's a very nice refutation.

Zwabu
Aug 7, 2006



All Else Failed posted:



What is the education level of your dad? Have his political beliefs always been the Fox News variety of right wing? Do you expect to change his mind?

Bozz
Jan 26, 2002



Ortsacras posted:

Buy him some bootstraps for his birthday - I'm sure he'll appreciate the good wishes.

He replied with 3 comments:

quote:

I'm not sure how you can possibly look at more government health care as not socialist, but ok. Have you ever read the constitution? These people who are so "ignorant and racist" (which says more about the people that call them that than the recipients) want our constitution to be used again when governing. That's it! More government= less freedom= more taxes= more intervention in personal lives... You are extremely narrow minded.

This country was founded on individualism, small government, low taxes. These are the principles that have brought prosperity and evolution to the entire world, in a shade over 200 years. This is the quickest way to self actualization.Why? BECAUSE POWER CORRUPTS! Have we as a country made any mistakes? Yes, show me a country that has not! The larger government is the more they impose, have you ever read a history book? The more rights we have, the less liberty.

quote:

Fascism- a system of government marked by centralization of authority- He is "fundamentally transforming america"-Obama and concentrating more powers within the whitehouse through CZARS than anyone in the past. Giving more controls to a black hole known as the federal reserve. Not to mention nationalizing large portions of the economy.

Socioeconomic controls- Redistribution of wealth, what do you think that means? Universal Healthcare too is a fine example.

Suppression by terror or censorship- Global Warming- seen the cap and trade bill? it's a doozy. have you looked at the diversity czar, he doesn't have to run to mainstream media they just carry out his agenda, he wants to tax conservative radio stations up to 100% of operating costs. hear about the nea?

Have you looked into any of the CZARS I pointed out to you before? He is the one who said we need to look at the people who surround him to find out his policy- communists, socialists, how can we forget about Rev. Wright?

quote:

It is really funny, you're right. University of Indiana estimates 1.7 million people, it's hard to get people to travel across the country all on the same day, we are awake.

Instead of bootstraps I got him this instead:

quote:


More craziness from the nut factory.

Once again, the majority of what you are saying is garbage easily disproven via a quick Google search. You're making unfounded accusations against a lot of respected Americans who have done more in their life to help this country than your crazed, fringe minority.

And why the hate? Because their skin is brown. Instead of bombing innocent people because their religion is different, they would rather use tax payer dollars to fund health care.

That's tax payer dollars being wasted? Is your hatred of taxes because they funded the police department that arrested you when you were breaking the law?

But it's Obama and the Democrats that don't respect the laws in this country.

You love accusing the Obama administration of wrongdoing. And yet, look at your own background. You are the cause of your own oppression. This is like arguing for gun control against a guy who shot himself in the foot.

You're done here.

and

quote:

Just to be clear:

Any more political posts from you and I'll delete them. This isn't a bi-partisan forum for you to post your latest Glenn Beck talking points. This is my own personal page to stay in touch with friends and I'm tired of logging in to see more of this crazy bullshit.

I realize he has a couple of points with the Obama administration but its pointless to acknowledge that since he's loving crazy.

Bozz fucked around with this message at Sep 23, 2009 around 07:05

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

The general increasing love of athletics is benefiting our young men, and making their lives better and more worth the living.

Bozz posted:

He replied with 3 comments:




Instead of bootstraps I got him this instead:


and


I realize he has a couple of points with the Obama administration but its pointless to acknowledge that since he's loving crazy.

You could also point out to him that the Constitution mere describes the form and limitations of the government of the US, not its economic system. Conflating unfettered capitalism with anything in the Constitution is a rather horrendous fallacy.

Ortsacras
Feb 11, 2008
12/17/00 Never Forget

Deteriorata posted:

You could also point out to him that the Constitution mere describes the form and limitations of the government of the US, not its economic system. Conflating unfettered capitalism with anything in the Constitution is a rather horrendous fallacy.

I love how people who say things like "we're a nation founded on freedom and low taxes - read the Constitution" have very obviously never read even a little bit of the Constitution. I try to point out to them that the Constitution very explicitly gives the government the power to tax, but somehow their brains are not usually able to absorb the concept.

Naet
Mar 2, 2005

If anyone needs me, I'll be in the angry dome!


A friend was showing me an e-mail he got that's been going around apparently. I asked him to forward it to me and I'll post it once I get it.

The basic gist of it is that we should throw away the Constitution and return to the Articles of Confederation because of its excellent "states' rights" and anti-federalism policies. It was pretty loving ludicrous and very easy to see that whoever wrote it has never actually read the Articles of Confederation or put any thought into why a guy like James Madison looked at the Articles and said, "What the gently caress does any of this even mean? We need a constitution!"

crime fighting hog
Jun 29, 2006


What's up with capitalizing CZARS? Is it some sort of joke I'm missing like when people just say Hussein Obama?

cbirdsong
Sep 8, 2004

Commodore of the Apocalypso

crime fighting hog posted:

What's up with capitalizing CZARS? Is it some sort of joke I'm missing like when people just say Hussein Obama?

The right has suddenly taken issue with the fact that the executive branch has been appointing people to oversee things who are called czars. It's been happening for decades.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czar_(...lopment_of_term

Cjones
Jul 4, 2008

Democracia Socrates, MD


CDOR Gemini posted:

The right has suddenly taken issue with the fact that the executive branch has been appointing people to oversee things who are called czars. It's been happening for decades.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czar_(...lopment_of_term

No offense man, but I think we've already covered the origin of the Czars enough.

penga86
Aug 26, 2003

GIG 'EM


I hate to post something so huge, but I felt like sharing

quote:

Hello All,

Plan to join this urgently called National Prayer Conference Call on Thursday 9/24 regarding the subjects below
7:30-9 pm EASTERN
6:30-8 pm CENTRAL
5:30 -7 pm MOUNTAIN
4:30-6 pm PACIFIC
712-432-0233 Pass Code 637# (NDP)

Please forward as you areled and able. If you are called to fast with this urgent time of intercession, ask the Lord about these 3 days: Sept 24th, 25th and 26th.

Urgent Call to Prayer: Signs of the Times

Convergence

It is critical that the church in America understands the times and what needs to be done now. The natural things speak of the invisible. Natural happenings on the earth are revealing something that is going on in the spiritual realm. There is a great spiritual conflict with a rising tide of Islamic boldness being manifested. Several happenings are converging this week. First of all, our President has recently proclaimed, honored, encouraged the Muslim holy days of prayer and fasting called Ramadan. He was very silent on the National Day of Prayer but very vocal on the support of Ramadan. Interestingly at the same time a major Christian leader of the Emergent Church called for forty days of fasting and prayer in the same Ramadan period with the goal that the church will better understand our Muslim friends. We are all for understanding but we must have spiritual discernment as to the spiritual dark powers that are being invoked into our nation.

Cause for Concern

At the same time, on the 25th of September, Muslims are calling for a Muslim Day of Prayer in Washington DC (http://www.islamoncapitolhill.com/). They are calling for 50,000 Muslims to gather and pray on the DC Mall. This is the exact word of one of the Sheikhs who is leading this historic gathering, “Muslims should march on the White House. We are going to the White House so that Islam will be victorious, Allah willing, and the White House will become into a Muslim house.” These are not empty words. They speak of a dark spiritual intent and a coming day of great trouble to America.

A Divine Moment

Now one of these events is enough to awaken us to this significant throbbing moment, but when they all converge it becomes a massive spiritual alarm that must be responded to by the praying Church. However, I believe in this moment of divine providence God has raised up on the stage of history a little “Esther” that if we pray and fast for her she could be a major voice to expose the dark under-belly of Islam and radiate a bright hope for a day of salvation for Muslims in America.

Headlines

On Monday, Rifqa Bary, a young 17-year-old woman, will be in the headlines of US news. Four years ago, while living in a very devout and radical Muslim home, Rifqa met Jesus in a powerful way as her savior. She hid her conversion, began praying secretly, and began hiding her bible from her parents. Then, on Facebook, her love for Jesus was exposed to the radical Muslim community in Ohio. Rifqa’s father demanded that she renounce Jesus or he would kill her as is commanded by the Koran. As a radiant believer in Jesus she refused to renounce her Lord and fled to Orlando where she was taken in and cared for by a Christian Church and family. Now, the father is appealing to the courts to bring her back under his custody. Major television networks have already covered her story. How must the Church of America respond in this moment for our sister who is a part of the Body of Christ?

A Major Sign

This convergence, I believe, is urgently summoning us in the midst of the rising tide of Islamic influence in America to recognize that our God is above every god and that if we return to Him with all of our hearts and call upon Him with fasting and prayer then God could use what the enemy meant for evil to bring about a great day of salvation for Muslims in America, of which Rifqa is but a major sign.

Here is The Call

First of all, we cannot be passive as a Church to let these kinds of developments go on without being challenged in the spirit. Our fight is not against Muslims, it is against principal intities, powers, and forces of darkness. We are calling the Church of America at the end of Ramadan, from September 21st through 25th, to five days of concerted prayer. On Monday, we must pray that God would grant supernatural wisdom to the courts so that the testimony of Jesus would be proclaimed and that the best situation for Rifqa and her family would take place. We must pray for Rifqa to be bold in proclaiming Jesus that even thousands of Muslims would hear and be awakened to the love of Christ. She has already said that this is not about her but about many Muslims coming to Jesus. We must pray for her lawyers who are being bullied, threatened, and challenged on every side. On Friday, September 25th, the Muslim Day of Prayer, we are calling the Church of America to fast and pray that Muslims would be moved by the Holy Spirit, convicted by the testimony of Christ, and even be visited by Jesus in dreams. We must pray that God would restrain the spiritual powers behind Islam and grant us the great awakening that we desperately need for America.

Let us hear the call to prayer and not miss this moment,

Lou Engle
The Call

CRITICAL EVENTS

* 9-1-09 - The US began its turn in holding the rotating presidency of the 15-member UN Security Council. The role of president involves setting the agenda, presiding at its meetings and overseeing any crisis.
* 9-14-09 - The new assembly of the United Nations opened with the new president of the General Assembly - the ambassador from Libya.
* At an unknown-to-me-at-this-time date - Obama will address the UN General Assembly followed by the Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi. He will also host a luncheon for visiting sub-Saharan African heads of state, another one for the dozen top UN peacekeeper-contributing nations, as well as host the traditional US evening reception for world leaders.
* 9-18-09 - The Jewish New Year begins (5770)
* 9-23-09 - See You At The Pole prayer rally on high school campuses.
* 9-22 or 23-09 - Obama has called a meeting of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in New York. This meeting will require Netanyahu, defense minister Ehud Barak and foreign minister Lieberman to be absent from Israel over the New Year Festival - an obvious snub of this major Jewish celebration. It is expected that yet more pressure will be placed on Israel to give up land in that tiny country for "peace" to people who have vowed not to accept peace until Israel is obliterated.
* 9-23-09 - Obama will meet with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev.
* 9-24-09 - Obama is scheduled to chair a Security Council session on global nuclear disarmament, the first such event by the 15-nation body.
* 9-24/25-09 - The G-20, the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank will meet in the Convention Center in Pittsburg, Pennsylvania. Mr. O will host this meeting. The primary purpose of this meeting will be to address the world monetary crisis.
* 9-25-09 - 50,000 Moslems will gather opposite the ellipse in front of the White House for prayer with the intent of praying to Allah for victory and that the White House become a Muslim House.
* 9-30-09 - The 30 days of Ramadan end.
* 10-1-09 - The Communist Chinese flag will be allowed to fly at the White House.
* On-going - Security agencies are on high alert for terrorist activities as the FBI plans and conducts more raids in New York City.

Also, this 912 pic for your enjoyment

Petey
Nov 25, 2005

I returned and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but the Patriots secondary happeneth to them all.

- Ecclesiastes

So I posted randomnoise's "SOCIALISM" post on facebook and got this from a crazy conservative uncle in return:

quote:

This morning I was awakened by my alarm clock, a black and white domestic shorthair cat, named Tuna Breath, which demands to be fed at six AM seven days a week, fifty-two weeks a year. I then took a shower in water which came from the Quabbin Reservoir, of which I am grateful. However, I think that many of the people of the towns of Dana, Enfield, Greenwich and Prescott in the 1930’s may not share my opinion.

After that, I turned on the TV which is more TV than I need because the FCC required that all new TV’s sold have to be digital. I wanted to listen to Howard Stern on the radio, but the FCC chased him to satellite radio. He’s squawking about some kind of 1st Amendment issue, but what do I know? I glanced out the window to check my outdoor thermometer and to see if it were raining. I did this while eating breakfast of foods from local farms and my own garden. (Brown eggs are local eggs, and local eggs are fresh) and while taking drugs which were determined to be safe by the guy at the laundromat who looks a little bit like Rachael Maddow after a really bad night on the town. So far, he’s been right. Say, didn’t Merck develop a pain inhibitor that the FDA approved? Didn’t that drug, Vioxx was it, cause heart attacks? Didn’t Merck have the pants sued off them? Didn’t the FDA get away with any repercussions? Just asking.

I saw my son off as he walked to a private school which is not controlled by the Teachers Union and where he has not had been taught about masturbation, where he's allowed to play tag at recess, and where he has not been beaten up for wearing the wrong colors. The downside is that the unofficial nickname of the school is the St. Aloysius Sissies and the football team is 0 and forever. I then went to the local Post Office and waited 20 minutes to buy stamps.

At the appropriate time, when “Saved by the Bell” was over, I got into my1945 VW Beetle, a deathtrap commissioned by Adolph Hitler, and drove down the Mass Pike, the most expensive road per mile in the universe. I didn’t stop to buy gas because I converted the engine to run on used vegetable oil from the dumpster of the Miss Worcester Diner. (the more trans-fat, the better) If I do need goods or services that I cannot provide to myself, I can always barter. My greatest asset is my ability to finish off crossword puzzles that someone else has started.

After another day of avoiding Carpal’s Tunnel Syndrome, I returned to my home which had not burnt down in my absence because my electrician and my carpenter did not want to get sued, also because I did not fall asleep last night while smoking a cigarette. It had not been plundered of all its valuables, partly because I don’t have any, but mainly because everyone in town knows about the time I fired a shogun through my front door at the Girl Scouts selling their poisonous cookies laced with artificial ingredients and white sugar! Ever since then, people have been nervous to approach.

We had dinner with my grandparents, who are alive today because of drugs procured on the black market after a bankrupt and corrupt Medicare program deemed them to be not worthy.

After dinner, my son played with his favorite toy, a fully loaded, semi-automatic Glock 9 with one in the chamber, which the US Consumer Product Safety Commission informed me it contained no heavy metal paint and was too big for a child to swallow. I put my son to bed while reading him a book that I got from the public library that cost me 1000’s of dollars in taxes. Ironically, the book I read him tonight was Abbie Hoffman’s “Steal this Book”.

All of the day's events were possible in no way because of the national security that's been afforded me by the politically correct politicians who set the rules of engagement at such a ridiculous level that our armed forces are wasting their time and more importantly their lives. Hang on a second, I’m trying to figure out how to use national security and open borders in the same sentence.

Then, as the day neared its conclusion, I logged on to the internet (which was developed by Al Gore) so I could post on the Daily Kos forums and the Media Matters forums how outraged I was that capitalism and the lack of government-run programs are DESTROYING AMERICA.

Ortsacras
Feb 11, 2008
12/17/00 Never Forget

Petey posted:

So I posted randomnoise's "SOCIALISM" post on facebook and got this from a crazy conservative uncle in return:

Why are everyone's crazy conservative uncles dumber than poo poo?

I include myself in that, although I have one crazy conservative uncle who would say stuff like that, and one who's actually incredibly intelligent and usually has decent arguments.

Dr. Tough
Oct 21, 2007



quote:

After dinner, my son played with his favorite toy, a fully loaded, semi-automatic Glock 9 with one in the chamber

What the hell...? Is this serious?

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

SCHWÄRTZESTES HERZ
IN ALEMANIA


The guy does realize that most of that is dumb filler poo poo and not any kind of refutation or parody of the original post, right?

Zwabu
Aug 7, 2006



Hagetaka posted:

The guy does realize that most of that is dumb filler poo poo and not any kind of refutation or parody of the original post, right?

Original post: clever illustration of how government bashing wingnuts benefit from government in almost every facet of daily living

Refutation: random wingnut talking points about liberals and stuff.

AmericanPoliticalDiscourse2009.txt

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Angry Guacamole
Dec 2, 2007

Oh God run away

Siiiiigh. Every time I think mom is getting more progressive she sends me a forward and I cry a little bit.

quote:

Payback is fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WRITE IT ON THE BACK OF YOUR ENVELOPES
or front

WE THINK THIS IS A GREAT IDEA. WE'LL START WRITING IT ON THE
FRONT OF OUR ENVELOPES, TOO! ----------Including Bills

You may have heard in the news that a couple of Post Offic es in Texas have been forced to take down small posters that say

'IN GOD WE TRUST ,'
The law,they say, is being violated.

Anyway, we heard proposed on a radio station show, that we should all write

' IN GOD WE TRUST'
on the back of all our mail.

After all, that's our National Motto, and -----
all the money we use to buy stamps.
We think it's a wonderful idea.
We must take back our nation from all the people who think that anything that offends them should be removed.

If you like this idea, please pass it on and DO IT. The idea of writing or stamping.........
'IN GOD WE TRUST '
on our envelopes sounds good to us ...

SOME PEOPLE ARE HAVING A STAMP MADE TOO........
lets use it as our signature on e-mails, too!
It's been reported that 86% of Americans believe in God. Therefore, we have a very hard time und erstanding why there's such a mess about having '
In God We Trust!'
on our money and having God in the pledge of Allegiance.

Could it be that WE just need to take action and tell the 14% to 'sit down and shut up'?

If you agree, pass this on, if not, delete!!!

BUT REMEMBER IF YOU DELETE THIS,

thats one reason why this world is in the mess we're in now.

WE SIT BACK & LET IT HAPPEN!!

IN GOD WE TRUST

Complete with RANDOM CAPITALS and LOTS AND LOTS OF EXCLAMATION MARKS!!!!!!!! OH GOD ANTI-CHRISTIAN SENTIMENT DERP

My response. Yeah, I know it's hosed up a bit in the center, but I have a headache, okay?

quote:

Believe it or not, they really are in violation of the law. The separation of church and state is, in fact, respected and upheld jurisprudence, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separa...ourt_since_1947 and the accompanying rest of the page for examples. The post office is a government facility, and display of religious things, this including pagan, muslim, buddhist, catholic, protestant, taoist, discordian, subgenii, and even greco-bloody-roman iconography. This is not intolerance. This is not about hating christianity. This is not about marginalizing people, putting down their beliefs, or anything of the sort.

It's about upholding the law, plain and simple. How would you feel if you went in to a government building and there were satanist (yes, this is a recognized religion by the united states government) iconography present, be it in the form of quotes, pictures, or anything else? Or a buddhist shrine present? Or... well, any other religion at all? Just because you agree with the message doesn't mean it's got a right to be there.

Others would agree with the other religious iconography being there if it was their religion being represented, but I guarantee if the person that started this email saw it, they'd have an aneurysm on the spot, and there would be an outcry of 'RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE IN MA GOVERNMENT BUILDIN' OH MA GAWD' and would pitch a fit about the government sponsoring religion. It's amazing how when a person agrees with the message, they can blind themselves to the medium.

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