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Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


Bozz posted:

I'd like to get other's reactions to this before I post my own thoughts.
I've found, in my experience, that often the best response when people degenerate into spewing, "Hurr the government isn't the solution it's always the problem," is to backhand the person across the face and yell, "Hey moron! - Government was created in the first place specifically to be the solution to a whole host of problems."

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Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


CDOR Gemini posted:

Here's one from a friend's boss, interestingly linking to an ACLU anti-national ID card effort.


Interestingly, computer interfaces in 2015 appear to have degraded significantly.

Sorry, are they arguing against the digitization of medical records? What the gently caress that is just god drat retarded.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


CombineThresher posted:

I'm laughing at the "flashy hybrid car" bit for reasons that are obvious to anybody who's seen one.

In gramps' mind, "flashy hybrid car" probably brings up vivid images of those things from Back to the Future 3.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


Be Depressive posted:

My mom is a pretty cool lady.

Yes, she is. It's the most politely written "you're an idiot" letter ever, and then - WHAM - "your dead father would be ashamed." Fantastic.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


RagnarokAngel posted:

I'm sure the original author wrote it as pro gun "humor" but how dumb do you have to be to believe it.

Yeah - I'd like to see a cop nail a receding target 6 out of 6 times with a pistol after having been spun around, let alone a cocktail waitress.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


I feel like this has been brought up before, but my quick search through the last 10 or so pages failed to find anything (and it may be in either the Beck or GOP thread, anyway) so I was hoping someone could point me to it: Being entirely unfamiliar with the situation surrounding Medicare and Social Security, what's a good counter-argument to the common talking point along the lines of "How can we think government healthcare would save money / be efficient / work / etc... when Medicare and/or Social Security are failing / in debt / broken / etc..." ?

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


Mooseontheloose posted:

Social Security won't be in "debt" for another 30 years. Tacked on to the fact that congress raids its funds year to year to cover budget gaps.

Medicare is liked by people who use it and do not want to go to a private system. http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/a...h-insurance.php

Good point on the former, but the latter addresses people's satisfaction with medicare. What I'm looking for is information on the financial side. That is, the right constantly harps on how because medicare is in debt or losing money or whatever, it's a sign that government attempts at providing or managing healthcare are inherently inefficient. So I'm trying to see how that actually gels with reality., if at all.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


BangersInMyKnickers posted:

One of the major issues with for-profit insurance that you run in to is the direct conflict of the profit motive against the objective of keeping people healthy. Premiums are paid to the company before a service is actually derived by the customer, and any claims are then going to be cutting in to the profit margin. Because publicly traded companies are seeking to maximize profits, throwing in hurdles that prevent people from using the service is common. One manifestation of this is increasing the co-pays for doctor's visits and medication. It looks good on your quarterly earnings report because you've just deterred a bunch of people from going to the doctor or in to skipping medication, but long term you have hurt your bottom line because preventative treatment is cheaper by many orders of magnitude than having someone end up in the hospital. As a result, rates get jacked up further and you've created a retarded feedback loop and a broken system. Remove the profit motive and now you don't have an organization scrambling for short-term profits that hurt everyone in the long-term. Beyond that, as a general rule the larger your risk pool is the higher quality of service can be provided. With insurance, the healthy are subsidizing the poor with the idea that new healthy will enter the system as the others age and become more expensive, allowing for an individual to have a manageable health care cost across their whole life. Once again, the pursuit of quarterly profits stepped in which sought to lower the base premium cost (sometimes) while tacking on massive copays and deductibles to penalize the people who actually needed the service. Then there are attempts to drive out those higher-cost customers through qualification rules and exclusions for (often arbitrary and stupid) pre-existing conditions until all you're left with is a bunch of generally healthy cash-cows in your risk pool, and then if they do get sick the copays and deductibles are so high that they might be better off just buying their own health-care a la carte at that point.

The concept of free-market health insurance is terrible and will naturally seek to destroy itself through profit pursuit, which is why it is best left either highly regulated like how we handle utilities or straight-up government run.

I think there's some misunderstanding going on here. I'm well versed on the conceptual differences between public and private healthcare, and can quite adequately explain my point of view on that. What I have trouble doing is specifically countering arguments that go after Medicare and Social Security from the direction of inefficiency and waste (because we all know that government agencies are inherently inefficient and wasteful ), and then try to use that to support the idea that government shouldn't be handling medical care.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


Does anyone know anything about this: 'Six Months to go until the largest tax hike in history? My cousin just forwarded me the link with the disclaimer "If we overlook the right wing rhetoric, this article breaks down some of the upcoming tax situation in laymen terms. Are taxes way too loving high or what?" I'm tempted to respond that if we overlook the right wing rhetoric we might be looking at a blank page, but I can't find any information on this outside of (surprise) really right wing sites.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


Econosaurus posted:



Man, even some of the more rational members of my extended family (we're ex-Soviet Jews) who voted for Obama or support most of his policies get all batshit crazy when the Obama/Israel relationship is the topic.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


Huge Liability posted:

The person who sent this is not Jewish, nor has he ever been to Israel in his life, but he sure wishes that it were more like ancient Rome

Israel shmisrael, that letter is one long piece of stupidity for what it says about Rome almost more than anything it says about Israel or us Jews.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


Cjones posted:

I thought everybody knew Darwin's theory stated that while evolution are simply (in layman's terms) genetic mutations, only the animals of the species that have advantageous mutations survive in the long run. You know, the fittest.

I like this approach. Ask your FB associates why, if it's a disadvantageous mutation, does it seem that there are more and more homosexual people around every day. According to him, the only way this could be the case is if they (gays) all turned out to be fitter and better equipped to reproduce than he and his straight buddies.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


ThePeteEffect posted:

Or some mealy-mouthed complaining that "both parties are at fault" or "I'm not biased, I don't trust Republicans either."

To be fair, both are. The Republicans for being pricks, and the Democrats for being absolutely ball-less shriveled scrotums and letting the Reps walk all over them despite a congressional majority.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


Dirty Job posted:

Not exactly an email, but I think it fits in here.
Man, what? The government has been hiding their Stargate from everyone? loving Obama. Bunch of assholes.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


RagnarokAngel posted:

This one is apparently true but it's so SUPPORT ARE TREWPZ as gently caress.

Wait, doesn't this fall under socialist desk redistribution? Here are these capitalist army men working their asses off and risking their lives so that these mooching elementary school kids who've never done any honest work in their whole existence have a place to sit and learn?? gently caress that. Those kids want desks, they can drat well go to Afghanistan and earn them themselves.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


ljw1004 posted:

Why do you think that? I disagree...
Probably because it would result in a system where people vote for their own interest, as opposed to what we have now, where people vote for the interests of various corporate groups and against the interest of themselves and the vast majority of their fellow citizens. It probably wouldn't be MUCH better, but it's hard to imagine such a system being in any way worse...

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


York_M_Chan posted:

^^^^ I actually disagree. I think a vast majority of voters don't believe the hype. They may not be as well-informed as they should be, but for the bullet-points that matter to them, they do pay attention and do the research. They also don't send their relatives e-mail violently expressing their stance, either.
It seems to me that most voting statistics would disagree with this notion. I'd be surprised if the portion of voters who actually were well educated even on those 'bullet point' issues of critical important to them was larger than a small minority of the total.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


streetlamp posted:

This cant be right?



Even if all of those calculations are correct, and I really can't comment on that, he's comparing apples and oranges by shoving it all under the umbrella term of 'economic benefit.' There's a big difference between having $30k of food stamps and medical benefits, and $30k of general income that can be applied to anything (and is probably coming in top of any health / medical benefits people who earn more than $40k/yr are likely to have).

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


Saint Sputnik posted:

It's just some video using a table full of pennies to illustrate $trillions - $millions.
Is it like that awesome video showing relative sizes of celestial objects?

Mooseontheloose posted:

Is he calling for the assassination of a public official?
Nah. Presumably, "when the time comes" they will no longer be a public official.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


The_Rob posted:

I just don't understand how people are convinced by Zeitgeist. At least Loose Change pretends to have citations, and evidence to their claims. Zeitgeist just names bad things for an hour and expects you to believe everything. Even though they don't back poo poo up.

Talk fast enough and sprinkle enough things that sound like they might be true among the all of the bullshit, and people will believe you. I have two cousins (the two are brothers) who are both very bright guys, who've fallen head over heels for Zeitgeist. Now, one is an extremely left-wing hippy who, despite being smart, surprises me not the least in taking Zeitgeist for granted. The other, though, is a very rational person with very moderate political views, and yet recently posted a FB status about the latest (3rd?) one and how everyone should watch it. I commented just urging everyone to really research those "facts" that appealed to them. But it just shocks me that the guy is so into it. On the other hand, his girlfriend is a total astrology nut and constantly refers to it as "science," to the point that another cousin, who holds a PhD, goes halfway into apoplexy whenever she opens her mouth about it.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


weedless nites posted:



Few people know that Reagan was actually an ancient blue dragon who wandered our land in the guise of a seemingly harmless movie-star-turned-politician.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


ought ten posted:

And a Chargers fan.

Not even ancient blue dragons are perfect.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


I've gotten into a long back-and-forth today with one of my FB acquaintances. It invariably happens, because he posts some half-cocked bullshit that he believes is true, I comment on it, pointing out the error, and he launches into me being an Obama shill ("buttboy"), starts flinging around strawmen, and generally making an rear end of himself while throwing out unfounded idiocy and claiming that *I'm* full of poo poo (typically Rovian tactic). Anyway, the highlight of this is that he eventually came out claiming that Carter's administration caused the housing bubble that led to the current state of the economy, and that there are two congressional committee findings that support him.

Of course, he's yet to produce those findings - but he's now claiming that I said that Obama's past as a professor means he'll make a good president. For reference, he's extrapolating from the initial comment and response, which was in pertinent part:

quote:

This clown's [Obama] never hired or fired anybody, had to meet a weekly payroll, or even had a real private-sector job in his life.
To which I responded:

quote:

Yeah, man, like, professors, senators and presidents totally don't have to worry about budgets constraints, staff turnover, owner/shareholder/voter/public opinion and pressure, funding, etc... This Clownbama guy is totally unqualified. Why, I bet he never even ran for president before 2008. Loooooooooseer.

Habibi fucked around with this message at Feb 9, 2011 around 21:41

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


Slaan posted:

Republican: Counterpoint - George Soros, Tides Foundation!

The Tides Foundation goes in, the Tides Foundation goes out. Never a miscommunication.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


Pfirti86 posted:

This doesn't even try to hide the racism; it's literally spewing out of nearly every sentence. What a loving screed. Anyone who reads this and finds themselves nodding in agreement should take a long look at their face in a mirror.

Come on, guys. The dude's name is 'Frosty Woolbridge.' He's more gay porn actor than journalist.

Habibi fucked around with this message at Feb 23, 2011 around 01:27

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


Nuclearmonkee posted:

Just respond with excerpts of what the contras did and shame him. Shouldn't be terribly difficult.

Yes. "Oh really? You and all the real americans went out and <insert contra atrocities>? You're a god damned patriot!"

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


dphrag posted:

So I just found out my friend died of cancer recently, though they passed four months ago. I posted on my facebook, and my friend who... homeschools his children, and doesn't vaccinate them, and has 3 so far... responds...

http://i.imgur.com/N1kxu.png

FFS. Can't I just post my quirky RIP status post without being told IT'S THE GUVMENTS FAULT?

You know what else drug companies and governments will never allow a cure for? Stupidity.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


Armyman25 posted:

What's really bizarre is how pervasive these memes are. I know plenty of Iraq war veterans, people who've spent years in Iraq, who still think that Saddam must have just buried the WMD's in the desert and that's why we didn't find them.

I've also heard people complain with a straight face about us still being in Kosovo due to Clinton "playing world police" while not saying a thing about how much OIF/OEF have cost us. It's like they literally can't see their own experiences.

I don't think it's necessarily that. I would bet money that many Iraq vets who still believe Saddam had WMD's and buried/transported them do so because they need to latch on to some justification for their presence. And I don't mean this in any scornful way or anything like that at all, as my guess is that many who fall into this category may do it subconsciously.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


Orange Devil posted:

This deal isn't as good as it sounds though because it only applies to suicide vests.

But they're Louis Vuitton suicide vests.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


tek79 posted:

Even before the internet, when I was a kid my brother and I would watch TBN and just laugh hysterically at the programming for young people, 'Fire by Night' was particularly amusing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wcd-7EnmS0

Wow. Also, this reminds me of FN's attempt to create their own version of TDS.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


Kubrick posted:

Musings on the State of Things by a Conservative former Republican Homeschool Dad
Dude. It doesn't look like he had received a single comment prior to yours. Now he's going to think that people actually read his crap drivel.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


gowb posted:

There are funny conservatives. Drew Carey, for one. Dennis Miller. Rush Limbaugh was pretty funny back in the day, when he was less bitter and angry. There's not nearly as many funny conservatives, for sure, but they are there. I do agree that most blatantly political conservative humor tends to fall flat, but the same thing applies to blatantly liberal humor as well. It's hard to be funny with an agenda.

I'm to find out that Drew Carey is conservative. Dennis Miller pretty much hasn't been funny since he became overtly conservative. Rush Limbaugh....OK if you say so.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


XyloJW posted:

Yeah, I got the same impression. I've actually seen some semi-reasonable Facebook petitions lately. Usually, the down-home solution petitions are just ridiculous, but asking the president and Congress to take a pay-cut during this recession is not an outrageous idea. I don't think there's any congressman who's actually not super-rich (I believe Biden used to be the poorest Senator?), and Obama himself is a millionaire.

How about we make their salaries commensurate with the state of the economy?

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


evilweasel posted:

Pointless. They are all completely aware that the economy is the most significant factor in them keeping their job.

Jeez, Mr. Cynical, OK - how about the amount of lashes each congressman receives in the morning is inversely proportional to the health of the economy.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


Crazy Letter posted:

But it seems no one cares about the


AMERICAN CITIZEN


that's being offended!



WAKE UP America !!!

Well, I'm at least glad that there's only one American citizen that's being offended.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


crime fighting hog posted:

Today I got a letter, more of a postcard really, of a cartoon of Jesus being cruxified while being stomped on by an ostrich. The ostrich is looking at me saying "YOU MAY HAVE GOD ON YOUR SIDE, BUT WE HAVE JUDGES AND THE ACLU!!!"

The card led me to this site, and holy moly: http://leftistliberal.com/

This is where political discourse has gotten us. "Liberals are perfect non-arrogant ostriches and will crush your children and their grandchildren."

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


EnsGDT posted:

I love this one. My grandfather came here in 1965 from Greece and still doesn't speak a word of English.

The hilarious thing is that this criticism wasn't true "in the past." Immigrants from Europe had experienced the same sort of xenophobic attitudes over the past 150+ years because the first generation didn't always learn the language. see: Italians.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


Dr. Arbitrary posted:

Counterpoint:


Although this would sorta be like Obama pissing off the side of a boat over the location where Bin Laden was buried, in 2013.

Campaign promise? I hope so...

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


tek79 posted:

Edit: And everyone knows real men use pick-axes. Reagan's got a chisel. What kind of poo poo is that?
There is a beautiful statue embedded in that wall and he's just trying to remove the extraneous rock to let it out.

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Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

By your powers combined,
I am Captain Playoffs!


Boondock Saint posted:

I always love how these things are always signed by a "law student", because you know a law student is that much more credible than say, a lawyer maybe? That and the names are so clearly fake and made up.

Forget 'more credible than,' I always get a kick out of seeing 'law student' because whoever wrote that crap for some reason believes that they should be accorded any credibility, whatsoever. Most of the lawyers I met when working as a paralegal I wouldn't consider 'credible' when it comes to stuff like this, let alone the numerous law students I've met who've convinced me beyond all doubt that changing my mind about going to law school after I had already submitted all of my applications was the best decision I ever made (excepting, perhaps, knocking up my wife).

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