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The Topre Realforce with variable key weighting seems worse than the one with consistent 55g key weighting. The variable key board could stand to be a consistent 45g instead. The outer keys like A and Q are on the edge of being too light and too linear. If you're used to heavy keyboards like a Model M, or if you just have strong pinkies, you probably would prefer the consistent 55g key weighting. shrughes fucked around with this message at 08:42 on Mar 17, 2011 |
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Mar 17, 2011 08:26
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glompix posted:Let's talk about palmrests too. What kind of palmrests are you goons using? No palmrest. You shouldn't be touching it when you type and you shouldn't be resting your hands there when you aren't typing.
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Mar 20, 2011 06:35
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bacon! posted:According to the ergonomist (I made that word up but it passes spell check) at our office, this is incorrect. The proper typing posture that causes the least amount of strain on your hands and wrists would be to have your keyboard set flat on the desk (with the height risers flipped down, if your keyboard has them) and a palm rest that puts your wrists at a height even to the keyboard. If you are keeping your hands off the desk, you're adding extra strain to your wrists. This is why the Kinesis keyboard has built in wrist rests The Kinesis works because it has properly sized and shaped things, that are more like hand positioners than palm rests. Palm rests like the one pictured are not the right size, and they don't really cause good ergonomic usage. If the wrists are on them when not typing, one is keeping your arms in one position, which is bad. If the wrists are touching them when typing, the question of whether good ergonomics s being had depends on how the forearms are positioned, whether the wrists are only brushing the wrist rests or whether they're being supported by them. Keeping your hands off the desk does not strain the wrists (Edit: [1]). For non-Kinesis keyboards the best thing to do is to put the keyboard on the edge of the desk so that there's no place to lay the wrists down. But even with that, many people will still find a way to sit with horrible posture and type with their wrists hovering underneath the edge of the desk. To those people I'd suggest getting a Kinesis, or gluing razors to the front of your space bar, or hiring a piano teacher to whack the underside of their forearms with a ruler every time they do that. [1] Well, I don't know if this claim is really universally true. I used to say I'd keep my hands off the desk and type with proper posture, and I got wrist problems anyway because I didn't exactly do that. Palm rests did not solve anything. All my wrist problems vanished soon after I picked up a hobby that strengthened my wrists. shrughes fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Mar 21, 2011 |
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Mar 21, 2011 07:12
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shrughes posted:The Topre Realforce with variable key weighting seems worse than the one with consistent 55g key weighting. Update: After further consideration, I find myself liking both models (for software development) about equally. In fact, the variable-weighted keyboard has a slight lead, but that might be only because I use it a lot more.
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Mar 27, 2011 11:41
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Streebs posted:I'm almost tempted to buy a Topre Realforce on elitekeyboards.com but $265 is a lot of drat money. I don't know what to do, I'm a pretty impatient person so I don't know that I can wait for a Filco with blues to pop up somewhere. I've read a lot of good things about the Topre Realforce boards but are they REALLY worth it for $265? It's the best choice for me because the only ergonomic threat I face is that caused by the impact of the fingertips when bottoming out keys. If I didn't play the piano, it would have been a better choice to get a Kinesis Advantage. You can be sure that you won't dislike the keyboard, no matter whether it's variable or uniformly weighted. It has a drab, unremarkable feel. The variable weighted keyboard is great when you have massive amounts of typing, and the uniformly weighted is good for home use which includes programming and gaming. (Edit: for gaming I don't have much of an idea of the rollover, I played Portal 2 and it was fine.)
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May 27, 2011 09:24
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Streebs posted:Thanks for the info, the only Topre Realforce keyboards I can find for sale are variable weighted but I'd be using it for work anyways. I have a filco with cherry brown switches for home (which includes a lot of gaming). It's kind of like the drab, unremarkable taste of water. That's what you want when you get water. For comparison, Model M's are overtly loud and clangy, Das Keyboards are all "hey I've got mechanical switches," and Dells are just "squish squish squish."
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May 28, 2011 01:40
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Risky posted:http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,realforce You can use it in the same room as your coworkers, and the discriminating buyer knows he'll only need to buy one every thirty years.
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Jun 1, 2011 10:19
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Gwaihir posted:Has anyone used the Unicomp integrated trackpoint board along side an actual Thinkpad trackpoint? Been thinking about getting one, but I'm wary of non-thinkpad trackpoints, since the fake ones on things like Dell and HP laptops suck compared to the real thing, in my experience. The Unicomp trackpoint was crap when it worked and then it broke and could no longer move the mouse to the right. It had an awful force response curve and it the curve was noticeably different in each direction. I'm used to Thinkpad trackpoints. The mouse buttons were whack, too, they had a bad click feel, there was no middle button, and they were too low because the spacebar is big.
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Jun 3, 2011 04:41
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Sizzlechest posted:Congratulations. You have a skill that's been obviated by modern technology. Do you find it difficult using a Dvorak layout on your smartphone? Only when it's set to the left-handed Dvorak layout. I only know the two-handed and right-handed varieties.
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Jun 4, 2011 03:28
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Steakandchips posted:gently caress that noise. After a full size keyboard for years, laptop keyboards make my fingers cramp. poo poo's not far enough apart, and the depress distance of the keys is jarringly shallow. My Thinkpad's keyboard is 2 or 3 millimeters wider than my Realforce keyboard.
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Jun 17, 2011 03:31
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antimatter posted:I have an Kinesis Freestyle Split keyboard on an incline and split at 30 degree, they are really lovely, however they are sadly one of those mushy dome and I was hoping to see if I could find some Cherry Blue or Brown keyboard that are split also... Get two regular keyboards and put them next to each other on ramps.
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Jul 4, 2011 02:36
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I tend to type with my arms resting on the desk at an angle thus my hands are coming in at about 30 degree so the split keyboard really really makes things much more comfortable along with helping keeping my RSI manageable. A long session of gaming will still bring back some pain on my left wrist however.
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Anjow posted:Who has used both the Unicomp Customizer and the IBM Model M a large amount and can compare the two? Is there any difference in feel at all, or is the Customizer really identical? I used the Model M a lot, then a couple years passed, and then I used a Unicomp. I did not notice any difference in feel. However, it was two years, and I had been using a laptop keyboard in the meantime. It was certainly just as loud.
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Jul 16, 2011 11:56
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ZombieIsland posted:Alright, I am thinking of buying a IBM Model M keyboard. It looks awesome and I don't mind the sound too much. But, How does it feel? Is it solid and give awesome feedback like everyone says it does. I think it's better than a Das Keyboard, anyway. It was so loud that after using it for a few days I had to put on big ear-covering headphones, even though I wasn't listening to music. It's loud to the point that you might flinch in anticipation of using it.
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Sep 6, 2011 01:56
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404notfound posted:Does anybody have a keyboard with variable force keys, like the Realforce ones? I'm wondering how it would affect gaming, when you've got your fingers resting on WASD and the A is a lot lighter. I have a variable weighted Realforce and a uniformly weighted Realforce. I've used a uniform 55g one for gaming, it was good. The variable weighted one seems like it would be fine too. I'm trying the WASD right now, it's fine. If you're going to spend most of your time typing and some of your time gaming, I'd recommend the variable weighted version (if it's a Realforce).
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Nov 22, 2011 21:50
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Does anybody have any recommendations for a wireless keyboard with a built in trackpad or trackball or pointing stick?
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Dec 9, 2011 00:46
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This is a bit silly, but several years ago I took a cool photo of my Unicomp:
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Jan 15, 2012 10:52
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Rashomon posted:Fake edit: The Topre keyboards on elitekeyboards.com are $350, I don't know if I can justify THAT much. Rationalization: If you buy one, you won't find a better one for the next 20 years. That comes out to $17.5 per year. (Unless you later want a wireless keyboard... or change your mind about whether you want a variable weighted keyboard or uniformly weighted.) For what it's worth, not buying one now gives you the freedom to buy one later. When you have more information about how much money you'll have then.
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Feb 13, 2012 02:05
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Smeed posted:I didn't see any recommendations in the OP or the past few pages, but I've got a Model M and my new motherboard doesn't have a PS/2 port. I bought a cheap converter on Amazon but it doesn't register/does funny things when I press more than a couple keys. More than two keys? Is that what you mean by a couple? What funny things?
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Feb 17, 2012 23:05
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fookolt posted:But is there a reason why the last two rows of keys are "tilted" up? It makes typing easier. The normal force is more opposite the direction of your finger's travel, so it means your muscles do less work stopping your finger. Also, you can hit the keys at finger angles which on flat keys would hit the key with the fingernail and slip. This also means you can get away with moving your wrists less when hitting keys in the bottom row.
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Feb 22, 2012 21:16
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zyce posted:Holy balls, I just got me sum Topres!! Sharetime! What key weighting did you get?
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Mar 18, 2012 10:01
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Stuntman posted:What's the cheapest mechanical keyboard you guys would recommend? I've never used one, so switch type isn't too much of a concern for me, but if it helps, I'm mostly going to be using it for gaming. Numpad built-in is a must, don't really care if it's PS/2 or USB, and I'd rather it not have any media keys or macro keys or anything like that. http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-82G2383-Model-M-Clicky-Click-Keyboard-/270949817761?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item3f15de1da1#ht_2078wt_888 $19.99 used Edit: Never mind, it's missing keycaps. Edit II: http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-IBM...1#ht_2946wt_888 $27.99
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Apr 8, 2012 03:53
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Phone posted:Can anybody comment on the ergonomically weighted Realforce keyboards? I'm thinking about picking up one in a reasonable timeframe (read: not now), and I'd like some feedback as to how it compared to either MX Browns or Blues. What do you mean, ergonomically weighted? You mean variably weighted? I don't think the variable weighting has any ergonomic effects. I have both a 55g uniform weighted and a variable weighted Realforce. I think the variable weighted is absolutely great for typing and programming. A consistent 45g weight would be basically the same. I think 55g is perfectly good too. I don't have a real preference between them. Also, I think somebody mentioned using a variable weighted keyboard for gaming and it was just fine. I agree that it would be fine. The differences in weighting is not noticeable unless you're looking for it. Generally speaking, Topres basically the way the force diagram would suggest. It's very clear when a key has and hasn't been pressed (not that the same isn't true of blues). I'm not sure you can rationally say whether, of Topre or some Cherry color, one is better than the other, unless you're bottoming out on some Cherry and getting joint problems. I got weak feelings of pain in my finger joints after banging away at an Apple chiclet keyboard at work, that's why I got the Topres. I'd say the probability of you being happy with a Topre switch is greater than that of you being happy with a Cherry switch. I've never seen anybody unhappy with them, but I have seen people happy with them (after trying various switch types), and I did not like Cherry MX blue switches the times I got to type on them. My personal key type ranking right now is Topre variable > Topre 55g > buckling spring* > Thinkpad chiclet > Thinkpad scissor-switch > Cherry MX Blue. *this ranking ignores the mind-crippling cacophony of buckling spring switches. shrughes fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Apr 21, 2012 |
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Apr 21, 2012 14:05
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crait posted:Keyboard Megathread? I'm not sure if this belongs here or not, but I'm a programmer and I need something better than QWERTY... I'm tired of it! So, I created my own layout. It's called Hasten and it's designed to have the integrety that programmers and designers need. This is quite an accomplishment! I have never seen a more effective way to demonstrate a person's intelligence by way of keyboard layout. PROTIP: If you want a non-Qwerty layout just use Dvorak. If you insist on being a retarded hipster, there's always the Colemak option. Otherwise you'll be hosed every time you want to install a new operating system. Also you're using integrity in a way that makes no sense. (I followed the link to your web page and you also use a lot of words nonsensically there, too.) I looked at it again and you put the period up where the tilde used to be, way out of reach. And the tilde is... disappeared. I was wondering for a second how you managed to remove the tilde, backslash and both curly braces from the layout but then I realized you added upside down question mark and exclamation mark characters, and ×, and you have _two_ fullstop characters on the keyboard. So you call yourself a programmer and you see no need for tildes, backticks, or curly braces. Edit: Edited the post above. shrughes fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Apr 30, 2012 |
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Apr 30, 2012 06:15
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crait posted:Thanks for reminding me. Those photos are outdated! They are supposed to be braces. <i>{</i> & <i>}</i>  Backticks are not just used in Perl, they're also used in (unix) shell scripting, and in LaTeX, and in Markdown, and in Ruby, and they have a deprecated meaning in Python. (And meanings in many other languages, like quasiquoting in Common Lisp. e: Oh and how could I forget, making named infix operators in Haskell.) And the tilde is used for bitwise not (which I have used frequently enough -- the last time I used it was Friday evening) (you're saying you never use bitmasks or any API that uses them?), they're used in pattern matching operators in Ruby and Perl, and more importantly they're the name of the home directory, found in a lot of URLs, and they're a special character in SSH sessions, they're used for array concatenation in D, for irrefutable patterns in Haskell, in format strings in Common Lisp, and I think some language uses them for negative signs. shrughes fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Apr 30, 2012 |
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Apr 30, 2012 07:14
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crait posted:I only use the tilde in C very unfrequently and the tilde when I SSH into my other server once in a blue moon. Like I said, this is an alternative. I know a lot of programming languages, but I honestly never use Python, Perl, or Ruby. Those are the most common languages that I actually don't use. So it's a layout for people who don't use bitmasks or popular dynamic languages or Unix or SSH and who use Unicode bullet characters a lot. And ×??? This right here is the LoseThos of keyboard layouts.
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Apr 30, 2012 07:27
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crait posted:shrughes, hmm, bullets can be used outside of programming? I use them often enough to see a need for a constant key for them. If you're actually typing the unicode or latin-1 bullet character, you're not typesetting your bulleted lists properly. crait posted:Dvorak keys are not placed for better speeds or for easier use. They are nearly as random as QWERTY. I'm sorry but you designed your layout around the word HASTEN.
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Apr 30, 2012 07:44
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crait posted:Now that you've posted something that isn't 100% troll He's not trolling. For the record I also think you're mentally ill.
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Apr 30, 2012 07:45
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Why is the colon in a more accessible position than the semicolon? Also why is the comma quote:Whenever I joined this website, I was under the assumption that there were people... not as... retarded... as some of you are acting. Whenever might that be? Oh wait it was today. Edit: Also, why are the angle brackets up in the top left? Do you use bitwise xor more frequently than comparisons? Also, why does your keyboard layout not come with a status LED on the caps lock key? shrughes fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Apr 30, 2012 |
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Apr 30, 2012 07:50
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crait posted:I'm sorry, but the only time I use the tilde is once in a blue moon in C or whenever I need to get to my home directory when I SSH to my server. Honestly, though, I find it as a wasted space on my keyboard to have it there. As far as programming is concerned, I mostly use C, C#, PHP, or a few other languages. I use language just because I'm required to for work sometimes, but I loving hate it. Those hardly ever to never use the backtick. I don't see why that's so hard to believe. Are you drunk?
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Apr 30, 2012 07:54
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Yes. loving explain ×.crait posted:Hm, HTML uses them and vectors in C.... there are reasons for having them besides comparison, right? Or do you not use languages other than beginner-level Linux interpreter languages? I don't know if you're thinking you're almighty or something by telling me I need the tilde more than these brackets. Go back and reread my question and notice how I mentioned bitwise xor. Then put on your reading comprehension goggles and reread it again. Notice how much easier it is to type the xor operator. Edit: Don't bother with the reading comprehension goggles until you've loving explained ×.
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Apr 30, 2012 08:08
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What is a "math report"? (And if you're writing about math, you don't use enough LaTeX to need backticks?)
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Apr 30, 2012 08:11
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crait posted:I don't use LaTeX. Ever. You're quite irritating with this, too. And when you're talking about XOR, can you elaborate? I don't have a ⊕ on my keyboard... Honestly, to me, it sounds like you're throwing out random little bits of computer knowledge without knowing what you're talking about. You expect everyone to use all the same languages that you do and you're shocked when someone doesn't. I think you need to look into the symptoms of autism if you're having trouble putting yourself in other people's shoes. You said you use C, C#, and PHP.
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Apr 30, 2012 08:21
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crait posted:I honestly cannot figure out what the proper response to that is. Are you expecting me to in return tell you what languages you use? I'm not sure I'm following you... I feel like you're just responding to further show off your stupidity? I don't get what your response was to. None of my sentences could get a proper response by what you said. I was talking about how '^' is more accessible than '<' and '>' in your layout.
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Apr 30, 2012 08:38
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Haeleus posted:EDIT: Also, how are mechanical keyboards for general typing; can you get used to them after a while? You mean to say people get mechanical keyboards for any other reason?
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May 10, 2012 00:42
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Inspector_71 posted:I think it also depends on the switch type. If you like what you have, I see no reason to switch. Most mechanical keyboards are not divine. They all have serious issues, like being loud, being insanely loud, having cheap feeling key switches, or costing $250.
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May 10, 2012 02:29
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Autolyze posted:Typing speed seems to primarily depends on familiarity. I can't believe this is true. Well, it could be true due to your use of "primarily", but that doesn't mean typing speed doesn't depend on other factors. Some of them include - the shape of the keys and curve of the keyboard. Keyboards that have an overall concave curve to them, and keys that have such a curve individually, will support higher typing speeds by requiring less muscular effort to accelerate and decelerate the fingers. For example, the Lenovo Thinkpad chiclet keys have a bit of individual curve. The Model M and Realforce keys have a bit more individual curve. The Model M and Realforces have an overall curve between rows, as well. Some other mechanicals do not. I don't know any Cherry-containing mechanicals that do, in fact, but I don't know much about them. - the friction between the keys and your fingers, for similar reasons, also because certain chiclet keyboards (like Apple wired or wireless keyboards) create unpredictable feedback when it comes to surface friction. - the size and separation of the keys. Keys that are too far apart require more traveling distance. I would expect that you can type faster on the narrow rows of a Panasonic laptop keyboard than on an equivalent keyboard with more standard row sizes. This is not really a differentiator between keyboards, of course, except maybe for certain ergonomic keyboards. - the actual feedback you get from pressing a key. Those that provide definite feedback that a key has been pressed make it easier to notice when you press a key more lightly or when you press two keys in the wrong order, meaning you spend less time correcting such errors. - Bad key rollover. On some keyboards certain key combinations have bad key rollover. For example, the Panasonic CF-C1 laptop keyboard has it such that <down left-shift> <down O> <down K> <up K> will not register the K keypress. This makes typing OK bad for QWERTY users, words like capitalized VERTICAL difficult for Dvorak users. - the force needed to push a key and the bounce-back force. On certain keyboards, if you try to type the same letter twice in a row, if you do it too fast, the key won't have lifted before the second press. Also, the force the keys push on your finger helps you lift your finger. This is a question of how well trained your muscles are for moving your fingers down and moving them back up. Many keyboards require more effort to be spent in lifting fingers back up. The ideal in this regard, for speed, might be minimal downforce and maximal upforce. Unfortunately the only way for upforce to surpass the feedback given when pressing down is to have powered keys. shrughes fucked around with this message at 05:59 on May 10, 2012 |
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May 10, 2012 05:57
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bewilderment posted:Recently the prop-up clips on the back of my Microsoft keyboard broke, I think you should keep your current keyboard. Having a keyboard tilted up with the prop-up clips is ergonomically bad. Keyboards should be more flat than that, ideally tilted away from the user. If you insist on getting a new keyboard, well, I was going to unironically recommend getting another Microsoft keyboard, instead of pushing the limits of your budget, before I reread your post. shrughes fucked around with this message at 04:54 on May 23, 2012 |
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May 23, 2012 04:50
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Phone posted:Need some Topre advice... Looking at a Realforce 87U and I'm not sure if I should spring for the ergonomically weighted, 45g, or 55g weighted switches. I know it's an apples-oranges-bananas comparison between rubber domes, MX switches, and Topre switches; however, I do have a blue and brown Costar variants. I'm going to have to sperg about the term "ergonomically weighted", there's nothing ergonomic about the variable weighting, regarding wrist injuries and such. I have a variable weighted at the office and 55g at home, and I'd say the choice basically doesn't matter. If you're just doing typing and will never use WASD keys in interesting ways, well, variable weighting really won't be a major improvement over a uniform 45g keyboard. Or any improvement. If I had the option of going back and reconsidering whether to get a variable weighted or 45g keyboard for the office, I just wouldn't care. However, if I had the option of reconsidering whether to get a variable weighted or 55g keyboard for the office, I'd get the variable weighted keyboard since the 45g and 35g keys are preferable. So my answer is 45g.
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Jul 26, 2012 22:36
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dissss posted:A little bit of a change of pace from the fancy mechanicals you guys like. The standalone Thinkpad-style keyboards allegedly have a deficiency that's annoying enough for me to never consider getting one (without confirmation that it's fixed). I forget what it is, look at the Amazon reviews if you're interested in knowing what it is. So I'd avoid that one. As for the other Lenovo keyboards, I haven't used them, but they're probably medium/good office keyboards, and I'd say the same estimate about the hypothetical choice of Microsoft keyboard.
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Aug 11, 2012 13:06
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Ulgress posted:My Razer Lycosa has finally given way, and I've had these past few years to think about the quality of my board of choice. I've had mine for almost two years so far, and it's been unchanged. The thread http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=27474.0 reveals that (despite the OP's worries) activation forces remain the same over 5 years.
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Sep 10, 2012 06:01
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