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cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


When I saw this thread I really thought it was going to be about someone wanting dreadlocks or something... although I knew sulfates weren't great for your hair, I didn't realize not shampooing could actually make your hair better.

So now you've got me thinking about trying it. No way I'm going cold turkey and subjecting myself and the people around me to a greasy mess, but that shampoo bar sounds intriguing. And whether they're good or bad for my hair, I really need to use styling products (spray gel and hairspray) if I want the hair to stay out of my face and look half-way decent, so I would want something to help remove them beyond just water.

One question I have - anyone know how this affects henna? I read that sulfates tend to strip hair coloring, and it seems like perhaps a switch to no-shampoo would help keep the henna brighter considerably longer. Is this a reasonable conclusion?

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cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


I hate to say it but I think this whole no-poo thing is bogus. Not shampooing for 2 days (but scrubbing really good and using conditioner) just made my hair a disgusting greasy mess.

I'll accept that the no-sulfate shampoos might be better on your hair and I'm willing to try that, but there's no way my straight, fine hair will ever go shampoo-free.

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


BEEFARONI posted:

Yeah, I work in a really corporate environment, and just "toughing out" a greasy stage isn't an option, even if I thought I could deal with it. I also don't brush my hair much at all, it gets poofy or it gets totally flat, depending on how dirty my hair is, so the whole "brushing to redistribute oils" thing would not work for me. The SLS shampoos I've been using have made a big difference in the way my hair feels, which is good enough for me.

This is where I'm at as well. I can't go months letting myself look progressively dirtier and greasier while my scalp adjusts, and frankly I'm surprised anyone with straight hair would be able to do so either (assuming they care about their appearance at all). I had hoped that a good scrubbing like people suggested would help, but it looks horrible and I feel dirty and gross. Like Beefaroni, I think for me alternative shampoos are the best compromise.

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


Okay I am not giving up entirely. I got some JR Liggett's bar shampoo (herbal formula) and will give it a whirl. I was sold on the bar when I saw it had rosemary and lavender oils, which I like to put in my hair anyway. What the heck, I'll try anything for $5.

I'm going to try it later and will report on whether or not it helps with the greasiness. I mean, I like the concept of no-shampoo, just not the outcome so far .

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


Flying Machine posted:

This thread has convinced me to at least try some sulfate-free shampoo. I just ordered the JR Liggett's bar shampoo. For those who are interested, iherb.com has a $5 off coupon for first time customers. I used it to buy the $4.79 bar shampoo, leaving me with just the $1.85 shipping cost. I'm definitely willing to try anything for $1.85.

Hey this is cool, thanks!

And an update from the skeptic.

I haven't used "real" shampoo since Saturday. Sunday and Monday were my failed no-poo, conditioner only days. Since I have fine, thin, straight hair, as I posted before, after two days I couldn't stand the greasiness (and how bad it looked) so I bought the Liggett shampoo bar to give that a try.

I was pleasantly surprised that just a little scrubbing with the bar (using just a little of the soap) created a nice lather. Afterwards, my hair didn't have that "squeaky" clean feeling from regular shampoo but it was okay. I conditioned the ends (with my kirkland brand conditioner, since I have a huge bottle of it still). I've used the bar three times so far: Monday night and then Tuesday and today. Yeah, still shampooing daily, but without sulfate shampoos. There's definitely a difference - my hair is obviously "clean" but it has a different feel to it. Not greasy but I can tell there are oils present (it's not all floofy). It also seems to be more cooperative for styling.

Of course this is just a few days in, but it does feel different, and I like the bar so I'll continue to use it. So I'm not a 100% convert but I'm willing to give this in-between position a chance.

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


I'm still digging the Liggett shampoo bar. One thing I've noticed for sure is that the extra oils in my hair keep it from being as frizzy and getting in my face - I have to use spray gel or hairspray to keep it from falling forward, but now it doesn't seem to be as inclined after a long day (and several brushings). Of course it's also not as "fluffy" and is a little flatter. So it's not bad, just different.
I wonder how much that has to do with the conditioner and if changing that would have much of an impact.

Oh and it's a lot less tangly after my shower - even though I am using the same conditioner.

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


Since I last posted in this thread, I'm still using the bar. And still happy with the results. And, yes, still shampooing every day. drat it, it feels good and I'm still unwilling to look like I haven't showered when I show up to work. And even so, I can tell the natural oils are still there - my hair looks brighter and shinier, doesn't need as much styling gel/spray, and doesn't get in my face as much.

Still, maybe I'll try skipping a few days when I'm on vacation or something.

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


Fire In The Disco posted:

How is your hair's texture these days? Would you say that it leans towards dry or not? I personally can't imagine shampooing, even using sulfate free shampoo, and not conditioning, so my recommendation would be to condition when you shampoo.


HelloIAmYourHeart posted:

How might I get cigarette smoke out of my hair without shampoo? Right now I use Dr. Bronner's Magic 18-in-1 Peppermint soap followed by a little Suave Daily Clarifying. The peppermint covers up most of the smoke, and the Suave gets out the rest and whatever it is in the peppermint that leaves my hair feeling gummy if I use it alone.


I'm still using the shampoo bar. I can't stand not using it every day, so that may continue to be my regimen, but I'm happy with the results so that's fine. However, like HelloIAmYourHeart says, I also get a bit of that "gummy" feel after I use the shampoo bar, and I wonder to what extent that's due to a build-up of either the conditioner I've been using or the spray gel and hairspray, and to what extent that's just how it feels after using non-sulfate shampoos. Anyone have any ideas?

Also, I've decided I prefer the way my hair feels without the kirkland conditioner (which has some really long '-cones' that I can't remember) but I think I'm going to try a natural conditioner next time I hit the store.

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


Alterian posted:

Yeah. I keep mine somewhere where it can dry out and not get wet unless I'm using it.

Same here. I've also noticed that it doesn't last anywhere near as long as a 24 oz bottle of shampoo (or whatever it said on the package). Still not a bad deal.

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


Roger RamJet posted:

I dunno what, or where, you're smoking, but I honestly can't smell the smoke in my hair. Maybe it's because I only smoke outside, or because I've been smoking more than half my life and I'm used to it, but I cannot tell. I haven't even gotten in the shower yet. Of course I do have one of the worst senses of smell ever.

I hate to say it, but if you smoke you're unlikely to know that smell because you're used to it. I grew up in a house with two chain-smoking parents and never knew how much my clothing reeked until I went to college and lived in a non-smoking environment for the first time.

And back on topic... I'm on my second Liggetts bar (this time the peppermint/jojoba bar) and still love it. I can't wean myself from a daily soaping up (followed by some Nature's Gate conditioner), but even so, my hair is much softer and nicer than it used to be, and no dandruff or itchiness either. I wish I could be totally shampoo-free but alas I just can't go down that road.

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


epswing posted:

Someone suggested I try a stronger shampoo, and H&S Intensive Treatment (the blue bottle, all other H&S stuff is in white bottles) did the trick. No smells at all. Am I killing my hair with this Intensive Treatment stuff? It works...but at what cost???

Edit: Male, 20s, short dark brown hair, kinda-sorta curly-frizzy. It's weird.

What is the texture of your hair like? Does it feel dry, straw-like? Does it break or tangle easily? Does it get greasy really fast? If any of those things are true for you, you're probably stripping away everything good.

Also, do you condition your hair?

I can't say whether or not no-poo is the right direction for you (as I can't relate to smelly hair), but you might try either the Liggetts bar or one of the natural shampoos like Nature's Gate or Jason's. And just see what happens.

Edit: do you let your hair dry naturally? How long does it take? If it stays wet for a while, that could be the cause of the mustiness.

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


Mangue posted:

I'm so jealous of everyone who has had great results in a matter of weeks I have been using the Liggets bar for over 2 months now and my hair still is greasy after only a day or so. I don't understand! I wash my hair about every other day or so, sometimes I can wait three days if I'm not going anywhere. Still, after a day or so it gets really greasy and starts to stink. The only change I see is that my hair isn't nearly as dry as it used to get after I would use shampoo. So that's been kind of nice but still...it's only soft and nice for a day after I use the bar. The next day I have to put my hair up or it'll separate and just look nasty and feel heavy. Maybe I'll try the baking soda method or something.

I guess my hair just can't handle not being washed almost every day.

Edit: I don't really have the option of just going no-poo for a few weeks and seeing how that works. Being a nursing student I have a lot of patient contact and who would want a stinky grease ball taking care of them?

I wouldn't think of it as a failure, in that the Liggetts bar is STILL better than regular shampoo. Given my long, straight, fine hair, I've given up any hope of going shampoo-free or not washing my hair every day because I just can't stand it feeling/looking greasy, but I like the fact that skipping shampoos keeps natural oils in my hair which gives it a lot more body and less flyaway hair.

I've also noticed a significant difference between shampooing with the Liggetts bar and with Dr. Bronners. The shampoo bar gives me more of a shampoo experience (more suds) and it feels a little cleaner than the Dr. Bronners liquid (meaning it might be stripping more of the oils). But the end result is largely the same and I still think I like it better than detergent shampoos.

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


Henna advocate chiming in.

I've been using it for many years to dye my hair red. For the life of me I can't remember the name of the brand I use but it comes in a box with a fox on it. Anyway, I don't mind the smell too much, especially since I add powdered ginger to it when mixing it. And I don't need to leave it on for hours (even though I have medium brown hair and some gray) but usually an hour or so with a little time in the sun or with a hairdryer will do it.

For a while I got sick of the "mud" and went with chemical hair dyes, until my hair became so damaged and straw-like that I couldn't stand it (and no conditioner made a difference). One round of henna (which coats and conditions your hair unlike dyes) and it was all nice and soft again.

As long as you get regular hair dye henna and not the black temporary tattoo crap (which has something added to it) then it's perfectly safe. I get mine at a local food coop but any natural food store should carry good henna products.

And it looks like the Liggetts bar/Nature's Gate conditioner has been kind to the henna and is not making it fade, so that's a plus!

I'm confused by it staining someone's tub, though. I've never had a problem with it. Usually it will only adhere to proteins, and washes off porcelain and plastic - at least it has for me. Maybe if some sits for a really long time it could stain, but it shouldn't if washed off right away.

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


Miss Bean posted:

Theory destroyed! I have no idea then why I had such a problem with Nature's Gate. It even had a weird consistency to it; even when you fill your palm and then start working it into your hair, it seems to magically vanish/evaporate or something. The volume diminishes significantly, forcing you to use even more (and I only have shoulder-length hair). I should have known something was amiss, however, when my hair felt slippery after my showers. Burt's Bees and Kiss My Face never leave my hair slippery like sulfate shampoos/conditioners did. Something in Nature's Gate is bad mojo.

That's all so weird because I didn't have any issues with my Nature's Gate conditioner... though I do know what you mean about it disappearing. I just got some Jason Sea Kelp conditioner (figured what the heck, since it was on sale) and it is defintely different. I'm also using Dr Bronner's now rather than the Liggett bar for a few days because I think I noticed a correlation between people complimenting me on my hair (I think it was shinier maybe?) when I randomly used the Dr. Bronners before. It makes my hair feel funky after I wash it (I think maybe because it redistributes the oils rather than removing them? Anyone know what I'm talking about?) but then a dab of conditioner makes it all happy again.

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


I had to post a new progress report.

As I've said in the past, I have longish straight, fine hair and no-poo = disaster for me. So since I started reading this thread I've been using the Liggetts bar and cone-free conditioner.

This weekend I decided to live on the wild side. After a day of no shampooing or anything, I tried a conditioner + vinegar only day. Then I got scared and used the bar the next day. I think that was Tuesday? Anyway, in a week I've shampooed only once, used conditioner every day. It's turning out to not be a totally disaster! My hair definitely has a different texture and isn't as "fluffy" but that's not so bad, especially since it makes my layers more pronounced. It's very soft and doesn't feel like I've gone without shampooing. And the best part of all is that yesterday I wore a polar fleece santa hat for two full hours and then when I pulled it off, for the first time in my whole life I did not have hat hair!!!!

I'm about to go on a trip and while I will bring a new Liggetts bar, I want to see if I can go without.

Also it could be that I am using a really nice conditioner. It's Alba Hawaiian Coconut Milk Extra-Rich Hair Conditioner (http://www.lifesvigor.com/coconut-m...a-hawaiian.html).

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


For those who don't like/can't find the Liggett's bar, I have a new suggestion.

On a whim I decided to try the Burt's Bees peppermint & rosemary bar soap. It seems to be made of very similar ingredients as the Liggett's bar but I prefer the scent, it's about 1.50 cheaper, and I can get it at Target. As far as results, it's at least as good on my hair, and maybe even better.

I also found a new conditioner that I love. Kiss My Face's Whenever conditioner, which has a lot of herbs in the ingredients, and tends to work better as a "shampoo" better than some of the thicker options. I've been using it daily and the Burt's Bees every few days and that seems to be working for me.

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


Eniko posted:

The baking soda might be a problem unless I can substitute baking powder (and somehow I doubt that's a good idea since it's mixed with some acids or something) because actual baking soda is hard to get here in the Netherlands. Apple cider vinegar might be doable, maybe.

Baking powder (at least in the states) is different. Are you sure you can't get baking soda? Might be called bicarbonate of soda or sodium bicarbonate. It's such a key ingredient in baking (and so incredibly cheap) that I can't imagine a western country not having it available.

DRP Solved! posted:

I need to ask: Why apple cider vinegar and not just regular, cheap cooking vinegar? What makes ACV so special?

I've used plain white vinegar because it's what I had at home, and it seemed to work fine.

I think it's the acidic content rather than the variety that matters here. At least that's my guess.

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


drkhrs2020 posted:

edit: drat, these sulfate free products are not cheap.

The thing is, you don't need to use them every day. In fact, while I "wash" my hair every day, I only use the shampoo bar a couple times a week. The conditioner I use, the Kiss My Face stuff, is $7, but it ends up being more cost-effective over the long run.

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


Rabbit Hill posted:

I have a question about hair dye, actually. I dye my hair every ~6 weeks to cover my grey hairs (I dye it my natural dark brown color), and I'm concerned that this might be damaging my hair. Before I got my hair cut a few weeks ago, it was definitely showing signs of crispiness at the ends, and the only source of damage I can think of is the hair dye.

Oh god you are frying your hair. I used to be just like you and finally had to stop because my hair had become so incredibly dry and straw-like. It was brittle and dull and just absolutely horrible.

I stopped dying and went to henna and it almost immediately turned around (because henna isn't only a dye but a conditioner, so it is actually GOOD for your hair). Then going sulfate-free...my hair has never been softer or in better shape.

Ditch the bottles now. Henna's a tiny bit more difficult but so much better for your hair - and if you stop using the sulfates on your hair (and fewer shampoos overall) the henna won't fade nearly as much as it or regular dye would otherwise. You'll just have to do touch-ups to cover your roots.

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


Rabbit Hill posted:

Oh noooooooo. Henna just seems like such an ordeal! I'm the messiest person ever and I know I'd get it all over my bathroom and probably the whole house.

Although, I do like how if you don't like the color after using henna/indigo, you can go back right away and redo it without damaging your hair (is this right?)...

All right, all right, I'll give it some thought! Thanks for the advice, y'all. Oral Slither, I'll try a hot oil treatment in the meantime, since my damage is pretty minimal since my haircut...thanks for the suggestion.

I've used henna on and off for years. It's more time-consuming in that you have to let it "cure" for a while before applying, but it really isn't much harder than dye to apply as long as it isn't too runny. And it rinses out faster in my experience. As far as messiness overall, as long as you wipe up any spill, it's really not a big deal and is less likely to stain things than dye.

Anyway, it's worth trying. Your hair will definitely feel a lot nicer.

(And as far as reapplying, I've never needed to do that so I don't know how well it works).

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


archwhore posted:

But I didn't have dandruff until I started using shampoo less. Isn't that the opposite of what should happen? Ideally, less shampoo means more oils on the scalp which means less dandruff. But in my case, less shampoo means more oils on the scalp which leads to never-before-had dandruff?

My hair was healthy as hell when I shampooed every day, now I have oily hair and dandruff.

It sounds to me (speaking as the complete amateur scientist here!) that the chemistry is out of whack. Dandruff can have lots of causes, from an eczema-type reaction that's caused by skin irritation, to exceptionally dry skin, to even a fungus (see, for example, http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/da...DSECTION=causes). I'm guessing that over time our scalps adapt to the harsh chemicals in regular shampoo and when those are gone, things can get out of whack. While I don't pretend to understand how the baking soda/ACV combo works, I'm thinking it might actually help to restore things.

I mean, it can't hurt!

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


tirinal posted:

Is dying hair any different if you don't use shampoo, or is it basically the same process and products universally?

I haven't seen any difference with using henna other than I think the color stays in a bit longer because I'm not using all the harsh chemicals to keep my hair squeaky clean.

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


I've been shampoo-free (in the sense of no SLS or traditional shampoos) for the better part of a year now. It's been a journey with lots of ups and downs.

I've learned that this summer, in the heat and humidity my straight hair just will not tolerate a baking soda/ACV rinse without looking like hell.

What I've pretty much resorted to is nearly daily "shampooing" with Burt's Bees bar soap (works like the Liggett's bars but cheaper) and conditioning with a natural conditioner of one sort or another. Every couple of days I'll just wash with conditioner without any soap. That seems to be the only method that doesn't turn me into a greaseball.

I haven't been able to do without soap entirely because I could never escape the greaseball cycle. Still, I think my hair's healthier and my henna lasts longer, and my impact on the environment and pocketbook is a bit lighter (I can splurge on better conditioner since my monthly costs are actually lower than with cheap crap), so I think it's a good compromise.

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


Fuzzy Pipe Wrench posted:

I've started to use Dr. Bronners twice a week (sometimes more) and I think its drying my hair out? I can't honestly tell.

Do you condition afterwards? I find that it strips my hair pretty seriously, and even with conditioner I've had to stop using it.

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


ConnStalker posted:

Also, if I wanted to dye my hair with box dye, am I just getting rid of all the work I've done? I know, I know... henna. But if I'm hell bent on a box dye, is there anyway to mitigate whatever damage it will do?

You can use a natural henna over it, I believe. Or use some cone-free conditioner.

Honestly, box hair dyes are terrible for your hair. In my experience, even daily conditioning couldn't keep my hair from being dry, brittle and the texture of straw. Henna was truly the only thing that made my hair "right" again.

Oh and I guess it's been over a year now that I've been poo- and cone-free. I now use Kiss My Face bar soap and natural conditioners... never totally broke the daily wash/product cycle but the routine works for me and ends up being cheaper and easier in the long run. And my hair feels really nice.

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


Fire In The Disco posted:

My dry skin on my body has been all but eradicated by using a soap free body wash, and my face is a hell of a lot clearer too from using an oil cleaning method. I hardly have to use lotion on my body at all anymore, and I live in a dry climate.

What body wash do you use?

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


Theomanic posted:

The reason I assume it's the shampoo is I am using the same conditioner and hair smootheners and such as I used with my regular shampoo. Regular shampoo hair = soft, bar shampoo hair = thick and weird. If I am using the same conditioner with both, I wouldn't imagine the conditioner to be the problem.

Rather than the bar shampoos, I've been using the Kiss my Face olive oil bar soap as my shampoo, and find it works really nicely, and lasts longer to boot. I follow it up every day with an organic sulfate and cone free conditioner and occasionally a cider rinse.

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


I can't believe this thread is still alive....

After what, a year and a half, I'm still no-poo. Kiss My Face olive oil (bar) soap is my permanent shampoo, plus a natural non-sulfate conditioner du jour. Never get dandruff or itchy/sore spots on my scalp and my skin is better for it as well.

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


Freakbox posted:

I'm sorry to drag this thread out of the grave but I had a question that I think all you odd-'poo goons can answer.

I've given making my own safe shampoo a shot but I wonder about conditioner: the results I got researching making my own or using it at all seem so varied and confusing that I've no idea what to do. I'm to assume shampoo is the really nasty partner of the dynamic duo chemically from what I've read, right?

Unfortunately I just don't have the will to mash bananas and avocados and such every time I wash my hair (and mayo disgusts me ), and I didn't find a recipe for anything storeable save vinegar washes. I saw a lot of "rub XYZ oil into hair, wash out" recommendations, but they didn't tell me how often to do it consistently enough.

so should I just take the money I'm saving and buy a nice, organic, ick-free conditioner to use? Is that cheating?

I've used apple cider vinegar and that works pretty well, but I've since decided just to use an organic sulfate free conditioner that smells good and makes me happy.

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


I never could go poo-free either, but I've been using "Kiss my Face" olive oil bar soap as shampoo and one or another organic, sulfate and cone free conditioner. Anything else other than that left my straight, fine hair looking super greasy and I just couldn't stand it, but this has been working for now almost 2 years (and it's a whole lot cheaper, too!)

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


I just read the following blog about going no poo. It even includes a giveaway:

http://urbanhomestead.org/journal/2...o-giveaway-too/

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


Part of Everything posted:

Has anyone with psoriasis tried going without shampoo? I have had scalp psoriasis since birth. I've noticed that the greasier my hair gets, the more irritated the patches become. I would like to try going without shampoo, but am afraid to in case it progresses to the point that I look like I've been through a nuclear fallout.

FTR, none of the myriad of medicated shampoos out there have helped. At all.

Either try true "no poo" or at least use a non-detergent form of shampooing. I had great luck with Burts Bees and Kiss My Face bar soap until I started making my own soap and using that.

cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


ThatsSoNotPLUR posted:

This thread got me into JASON products like 3 years ago. Nostalgia trip....

Holy crap... I had to go back to the first page and see for myself. I've been no-poo since 2009! drat, I had no idea it's been so long!

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cocteau
Nov 28, 2005

The best Darcy.


Camembert posted:

I'm interested in doing this, but also have some concerns. I work at an animal shelter, and often times the cats there have upper respiratory infections (kind of like a kitty cold) and will sneeze on/rub their faces on my face and hair. I have a cat at home who I don't want to get sick, so usually right after work I jump in the shower and wash my hair. Of course, washing my hair this often is doing a number on it. This might be kind of a silly question, but do you guys have any advice in terms of lessoning my shampooing but still getting rid of the ickies so that my cat doesn't get sick? I don't think water alone would really cut it? I'm definitely looking into those shampoo bars/some of the other products listed to at least lessen the chemicals that are going into my hair, but if you guys have other advice or know someone in the same kind of situation I'd love to hear it!

Any soap, especially followed by an apple cider vinegar rinse, should clean your hair at least as well as store detergent-based shampoos. I mean, you clean your hands with soap and water to get rid of germs (and you don't need anti bacterial crap to accomplish this!) so why would your hair be any different?

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