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Z3n posted:I can just about promise you you will see the voltage go down and not up when you start the bike, because your charging system is screwed. Point of clarification, given that this a newcomer to the charging system follies. This is not to be mistaken for the drop you'll see when flipping the key to the "on" position, which would typically be on the order of 1-1.5V and is normal.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2012 03:03 |
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| # ? May 19, 2013 02:30 |
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And the voltage will drop even more any time you put a load on the battery, such as turning on the headlights or sounding the horn or engaging the starter motor 
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| # ? Mar 20, 2012 03:04 |
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Thanks for covering the rest of the bases. I'm beat and didn't think about that 
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| # ? Mar 20, 2012 03:41 |
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To continue. If there's more than a single issue with a bike, the following is true: "Jetting issues are usually electrical problems." "Ignition problems are usually jetting issues." Fix your damned electrics before you even vaguely consider trying to do anything else. Your electrics. You can diagnose and fix electrics with a bike that just barely runs. Get that fixed. once that is fixed, you can chase other demons. "JEtting is electrical" Say you have a high rpm cutout issue. Or the bike dies at idle. BOTH are likely an electrical problem. The slow sputter and die near idle, isn't the bike loading up. It's the spark not being strong enough to keep the bike running. When it cuts out over 5000 rpm, that's the voltage not being high enough to have spark energy at high rpm. "Ignition is jetting" When a bike won't start, they immediately check the ignition. It usually isn't the ignition. A bike will start with the battery at 6volts or less (provided you push start it..) Or "the bike feels weak at full throttle." Which is the jetting being wildly fat or lean. Bah. I've been at this to long. :-) Spend the $200, get your electrical in top shape. Then sort out the rest. yes, I've used all the excuses you're using.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2012 04:23 |
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I picked up a 1979 Honda CX500 Custom as a starter bike last year and have come to find two things I don't care for and would like to change. Does anyone have a suggestion for a windshield that will fit this bike and any suggestions on a more straight set of handlebars? I'm 6'4", if that makes much of a difference. I'm not much of a fan of getting blown all over while riding, or the bullhorn style of bars that came with the bike. Any suggestions?
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| # ? Mar 20, 2012 15:32 |
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Another point of clarification on electrics: if a battery has 12.6+V with no load, it does not prove that the battery is good. It is possible for a battery to have a "surface charge" where the voltage looks good when unloaded, but drops significantly when you're pulling current from it. You need a load tester, or a multimeter and a load like a starter motor in a bike, to fully confirm a battery is good.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2012 16:28 |
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qutius posted:I picked up a 1979 Honda CX500 Custom as a starter bike last year and have come to find two things I don't care for and would like to change. Does anyone have a suggestion for a windshield that will fit this bike and any suggestions on a more straight set of handlebars? I'm 6'4", if that makes much of a difference. You're pretty much into universal windshield and handlebar territory with that one. Bars come off and go on fairly easily. You just need to check your bar diameter before ordering. Dennis Kirk or Motorcycle Superstore probably has something that will work for you. As for windshields, if there's a CX community, I would check and see what they're running. But no matter what, it's going to look silly because windshields look silly. Do you have bruises on your knees from the cylinder heads?
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| # ? Mar 20, 2012 16:48 |
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clutchpuck posted:You're pretty much into universal windshield and handlebar territory with that one. Thanks for the advice, I'll check things out and see if I can't find some first-hand info to go on. The windshield will look a little silly, no doubt, but I think it'll help increase the amount of time I can ride if I'm not getting tossed around so much. Not that the small rear end gas tank doesn't already limit the number of miles already... No bruises yet - my knees do get a bit warm once in a while. A weird design for sure, she's treated me well so far!
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| # ? Mar 20, 2012 18:57 |
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qutius posted:I picked up a 1979 Honda CX500 Custom as a starter bike last year and have come to find two things I don't care for and would like to change. Does anyone have a suggestion for a windshield that will fit this bike and any suggestions on a more straight set of handlebars? I'm 6'4", if that makes much of a difference. What did you pay if you don't mind me asking. I can't bring myself to pay more than $500 for one no matter what the condition.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2012 20:29 |
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For what its worth, a friend I helped get into riding bought a '80 CX500 for $800. And he sold it 6 months later for $900. That kind of blew my mind but it tells me that, at least in my area, $800 is probably close to the floor for a working one.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2012 21:32 |
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I believe you can make a decent profit (not counting your time, of course) buying old bikes in November, doing some basic maintenance and cleaning over the winter, and selling them right about now for 30-50% more.
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| # ? Mar 20, 2012 21:47 |
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So now that my VFR is in perfect running condition *knocks on wood*, I finally have time to work on my beloved 76 CB550. Anyway, it looks like I'll be doing a valve adjustment and adjusting the cam chain tensioner as well. At the same time, I would like to replace the swing arm bushings and steering head bearings. http://www.charlies-place.com/PAGES/Store%20Home.html This place is local to me and has bronze swing arm bushings as well as tapered steering bearings. Has anybody ever replaced swing arm bushings? Do I need a press or...? At the same time, I will be replacing my brake line with a stainless steel piece just to see if I can improve the terrible front brake. Also, has anybody been to the Deus ex Machina shop in LA? I heard they just opened a new location near Venice Beach. Thought more vintage bike owners would know than in chat/question thread. EvilCrayon fucked around with this message at Mar 20, 2012 around 22:07 |
| # ? Mar 20, 2012 22:02 |
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Thanks for that link, EvilCrayon. I was having some trouble finding a retailer for parts I need, and that website seems to have it all and at good prices. I clicked around adding everything I might want to my cart, and still only came up at around $300! Edit: Cool poo poo for my bike or MSF riding course? Leaning toward the course. CloFan fucked around with this message at Mar 21, 2012 around 03:27 |
| # ? Mar 20, 2012 23:13 |
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Any advice for rebuilding a cb350? I'm looking for another motorcycle project (dirt bikes are my game), but been coming across a couple of ads for cb350's, and 750's and got me a little curious. Been doing a little reading here and they seem like pretty solid bikes, as honda's are. I'm pretty mechanical, so I'd be looking for a rebuild project if possible. The 350 caught my eye, but is there any year or other model I should be looking to avoid? Seems like the going rate for an old, abused model is about $500? What kind of resale do the rebuilt ones go for? It would be nice to go into it being able to break even at the end, if I decided to. I'm in Texas, so it appears that a having a title is a requirement so I don't have to deal with all that nonsense.
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| # ? Mar 21, 2012 05:29 |
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CB350s are solid. No particular weirdness about them. 500 is about right for something abused but with spark, compression and no missing pieces -- I paid 600 for my CL350 in the aforementioned shape. Running and licensed, you'd get maybe 1000 dollars, and a clean restoration could bring upwards of 1500...but the vintage thing they have going means that the prices can be all over the place. KBB for one in excellent condition for its age is ~1350, but I've seen hipsters asking (and presumably paying, since they're hipsters) 2000. Just...please don't buy a gently used one and turn it into a cafe racer. A basket case with a dented tank and rust and peeling paint and a shredded seat, okay, but try and leave the nice ones fairly stock. Okay?
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| # ? Mar 21, 2012 06:25 |
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Stupid question. Stator on an RD is behind the points, correct? Meaning I have to pull the cover off to inspect the points, and then pull THEM off to inspect the stator and brushes? Finally gonna have a couple days off so I'll have the time to actually work on the drat bike.
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| # ? Mar 21, 2012 07:33 |
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^Right. The electrics are on one side, the clutch on the other.
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| # ? Mar 21, 2012 12:10 |
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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:What did you pay if you don't mind me asking. I can't bring myself to pay more than $500 for one no matter what the condition. I paid $800 - a friend of mine picked it up and did a fair amount of work on it. Fixed up some leaks, rebuilt the carbs, did a couple spot welds on the rear blinkers, and some other things too. Considering he's my tech support for this bike, I didn't haggle on the price too much and feel like I got a fair deal.
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| # ? Mar 21, 2012 12:24 |
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EvilCrayon posted:So now that my VFR is in perfect running condition *knocks on wood*, I finally have time to work on my beloved 76 CB550. Anyway, it looks like I'll be doing a valve adjustment and adjusting the cam chain tensioner as well. At the same time, I would like to replace the swing arm bushings and steering head bearings. http://www.charlies-place.com/PAGES/Store%20Home.html This place is local to me and has bronze swing arm bushings as well as tapered steering bearings. Has anybody ever replaced swing arm bushings? Do I need a press or...? I want to check out the new Deus shop but that's 3000+ miles from me. I've been following the blog for a while though. The bronze bushings are definitely the way to go, as are those tapered steering bearings. If you wanna do it right, you're going to need a press. It's entirely possible (with a lot of luck) to do it without one though. I just went out to Harbor Freight and bought a bearing press to do the job. I got lucky and caught a 20-ton on sale for <$100. You should still be able to at least get a 12-ton for about that and it'll do the job just fine. qutius posted:I paid $800 - a friend of mine picked it up and did a fair amount of work on it. Fixed up some leaks, rebuilt the carbs, did a couple spot welds on the rear blinkers, and some other things too. Considering he's my tech support for this bike, I didn't haggle on the price too much and feel like I got a fair deal.
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| # ? Mar 21, 2012 14:49 |
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Z3n posted:From there, examine the wiring from the stator to the R/R to the battery and see if any of it is torched. If it is, repair it and test again. If it's not, switch to AC voltage, and unplug that stator (usually 3 yellow wires coming off an engine cover), start the bike, rev it, and compare the 3 windings of the stator to each other, (1->2, 2->3, 1->3). You should see consistent similar voltages on them, usually in the 40-60 range, depending on bike. If you don't, there's a problem with the stator. If you do, there's a problem with the R/R or the wiring. Sorry to be an idiot again. When testing from 1-2 and so on, where am I grounding to? I guess I'm just confused as to how I can test two places at once.
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| # ? Mar 21, 2012 16:33 |
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If I'm understanding right, you just set your multimeter to whatever is above 50v, then connect one lead to the first and the other lead to the second, measuring the voltage between the two. Edit: you know, you should wait till one of the more experienced guys weighs in. I'd hate to be the reason you short something out.
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| # ? Mar 21, 2012 17:23 |
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iwentdoodie posted:Sorry to be an idiot again. When testing from 1-2 and so on, where am I grounding to? I guess I'm just confused as to how I can test two places at once. You don't ground, you test the 3 wires of the stator against one another, on ac voltage rather than dc. Clofan has it right.
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| # ? Mar 21, 2012 17:27 |
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Sagebrush posted:Just...please don't buy a gently used one and turn it into a cafe racer. A basket case with a dented tank and rust and peeling paint and a shredded seat, okay, but try and leave the nice ones fairly stock. Okay? Will do. I've definitely seen the price range from 500 to 4000 for a 750 cafe that I assumed only hipsters would find the irony in the terrible paint job. I'll keep my eyes out and hopefully be able to contribute some pics to this thread in the future.
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| # ? Mar 21, 2012 18:18 |
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Z3n posted:You don't ground, you test the 3 wires of the stator against one another, on ac voltage rather than dc. So set it to AC 120 or so, then poke the lead into hole 1 and take a reading. Then hole 2? Trying to pull this thing apart when my hands go numb in thirty seconds is a pain in the dick.
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| # ? Mar 21, 2012 19:08 |
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You put one lead in hole 1 and the other in hole 2, take an AC voltage reading. Move the hole 1 probe to hole 3, repeat. Move hole 2 to hole 1, repeat. You don't check against a ground for AC readings.
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| # ? Mar 21, 2012 19:15 |
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Snowdens Secret posted:You put one lead in hole 1 and the other in hole 2, take an AC voltage reading. Move the hole 1 probe to hole 3, repeat. Move hole 2 to hole 1, repeat. You don't check against a ground for AC readings. Okay, that's what was confusing me. I really, really hate electrical work. In other news, buddy of mine was testing a relay in his car last night and it shorted on him. There's a melty spot on the pavement now where the multimeter he was using was before it got blown across the parking lot. Just tested my battery and it read at 12.28v. Time to hook it all up I suppose and tear poo poo up.
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| # ? Mar 21, 2012 20:08 |
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Marv Hushman posted:Point of clarification, given that this a newcomer to the charging system follies. This is not to be mistaken for the drop you'll see when flipping the key to the "on" position, which would typically be on the order of 1-1.5V and is normal. Battery tests at 12.28. Turn key to on and switch to run, 11.4. Turn kill switch to on, drops to 10.90 and keeps dropping. Like I can watch the multimeter drop numbers. Started the bike, pinched the positive lead into the battery post and touched the negative to it. 12. Revved to 2500, got 13.4 climbing to as high as 14.6 around 5k. So it is charging. At least when I rev it. But what would explain the massive drop and drain once the kill switch is turned on? Could it possibly be a hosed relay? I know my turn signals don't flash much. The right hand side does, slowly, but the left hand side doesn't flash period. On an awesome note, the maintenance guy at this hotel is a bike guy and let me put the bike up next to my room underneath the stairs. Still outside, but at least it's out of the rain so I can work on it. Hope my neighbor likes the smell of two stroke. Edit: it's confusing though. It runs at high rpm just fine. It'll even idle for awhile. But then after riding for a few minutes, it just dies at low rpm. I don't get it. Battery is charging just fine according to the voltmeter. Could it be a short in the kill switch somehow, considering the massive drain it puts on the system as soon as its turned on? Edit 2: just went back out and for shits and giggles tested it again. Battery showed 12. Turn key to on still 12. Turn run switch on, 11 and dropping. Turn kill to on, it drops to 9 and keeps going. Turn it all back off and the battery voltage itself slowly climbs back to 11.9. Really hate electronics. iwentdoodie fucked around with this message at Mar 21, 2012 around 22:58 |
| # ? Mar 21, 2012 21:31 |
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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:The bronze bushings are definitely the way to go, as are those tapered steering bearings. If you wanna do it right, you're going to need a press. It's entirely possible (with a lot of luck) to do it without one though. I used a press on the steering bearing. The lower bearing is a pain in the rear end, used a 8 or 9 inch chunk of 1 1/4 plastic conduit, careful with the pressure on it as it's not exactly right, but it did the job, I don't know that I would use it with a hammer. For the old races and bushings, I had a foot or so of 1/2 hot roll. It was long enough to give me some leverage and hammer power. The ends were pre-mushroomed and it gave good perch on the bushings. The head set took me all of 30 minutes, minus the hour I spent drinking beer with my dad before I got to the press. For the races I used this HF bearing driver set. Helps with wheel bearings also. To drive in the lower race, use the driver until flush with stem, then stack the old race in there and drive the new one home. Swinger bushings went right in for my trusty dead blow. That said, I would probably strip off the triples, wheels and swingarm, remove all the old bearings and bring it down to the local bike shop and have them press in new ones for me. Less fuckery and probably wouldn't cost the 30 bucks that bearing driver did. Helps to soak everything in penetrant (acetone/atf) the night before attempting.
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| # ? Mar 22, 2012 02:08 |
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iwentdoodie posted:Battery tests at 12.28. Turn key to on and switch to run, 11.4. Turn kill switch to on, drops to 10.90 and keeps dropping. Like I can watch the multimeter drop numbers. It sounds like your battery is just hosed...ie you can still charge it up to full voltage, but it has lost all its capacity. The battery voltage drops rapidly when you put even a small load on it, like the ignition coils, because it has no ability to sustain any output power. When you measure the voltage across the battery with the engine running, you're not measuring what the battery is doing -- you're measuring the alternator output (yours sounds like it's in good shape), so you'll see 13-14 volts. At high RPM the alternator is putting out enough power to sustain ignition on its own, but at idle it isn't so as soon as the battery dies the engine dies, too. The only misconception here is that seeing voltage across the battery means that it's charging. You are attempting to charge it, but the battery itself won't necessarily take the charge. In a damaged battery, the plates can often take a "surface" charge that will make the battery appear to have reached full charge, but in reality most of the interior structure is destroyed and unusable. The best way to test whether a flooded battery is good is to measure the specific gravity of the electrolyte, but failing that, to connect a load and watch how fast the voltage drops. You've said "rapidly" so that would be a big sign of failure to me. Get a brand new battery and try again. As an aside, why does everyone hate electronics so much? Electrons follow rules like everything else in the universe, so diagnosing electrical problems can be just as matter-of-fact as mechanical ones. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at Mar 22, 2012 around 02:53 |
| # ? Mar 22, 2012 02:51 |
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Sagebrush posted:The only misconception here is that seeing voltage across the battery means that it's charging. Good news here is that there was a commensurate increase with revving and the regulator seems to be right on the money. Then again, charging system test results aren't very meaningful without a known good battery. Sagebrush posted:As an aside, why does everyone hate electronics so much? Electrons follow rules like everything else in the universe, so diagnosing electrical problems can be just as matter-of-fact as mechanical ones. I don't think there's a universal hate for electronics, it's just that not everything is as clean and predictable as a Radio Shack breadboard flashing LED project. With a crusty 30 year old bike that has likely been hacked at some point, it can be equal amounts logic and improv. This is why some builders don't even drop the hours on diagnosis and contact cleaning, it's more cost effective to order a new harness right out of the gate. Cheating, I know...
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| # ? Mar 22, 2012 03:47 |
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I don't think that's necessarily cheating. If you've got an electrical gremlin like a damaged and rusted wire from age that takes 2 hours to track down on a 30 year old bike, it's not a leap to say that there will be other wires likely to go soon too. A new harness is a fair solution to that. Like new pistons, rings and a bore would be on an old engine.
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| # ? Mar 22, 2012 04:16 |
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Sagebrush posted:It sounds like your battery is just hosed...ie you can still charge it up to full voltage, but it has lost all its capacity. The battery voltage drops rapidly when you put even a small load on it, like the ignition coils, because it has no ability to sustain any output power. When you measure the voltage across the battery with the engine running, you're not measuring what the battery is doing -- you're measuring the alternator output (yours sounds like it's in good shape), so you'll see 13-14 volts. At high RPM the alternator is putting out enough power to sustain ignition on its own, but at idle it isn't so as soon as the battery dies the engine dies, too. That's just it. The battery tested good on the shops battery tester and swapping out with a known good battery did the same thing.
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| # ? Mar 22, 2012 05:27 |
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PeaceFrog posted:I used a press on the steering bearing. The lower bearing is a pain in the rear end, used a 8 or 9 inch chunk of 1 1/4 plastic conduit, careful with the pressure on it as it's not exactly right, but it did the job, I don't know that I would use it with a hammer. For the old races and bushings, I had a foot or so of 1/2 hot roll. It was long enough to give me some leverage and hammer power. The ends were pre-mushroomed and it gave good perch on the bushings. The head set took me all of 30 minutes, minus the hour I spent drinking beer with my dad before I got to the press. For the races I used this HF bearing driver set. Helps with wheel bearings also. To drive in the lower race, use the driver until flush with stem, then stack the old race in there and drive the new one home. Swinger bushings went right in for my trusty dead blow. That said, I would probably strip off the triples, wheels and swingarm, remove all the old bearings and bring it down to the local bike shop and have them press in new ones for me. Less fuckery and probably wouldn't cost the 30 bucks that bearing driver did. Helps to soak everything in penetrant (acetone/atf) the night before attempting. Just throw the swingarm in the oven on 500+ for a while then spray the bushings with a can of compressed air held upside down. You could sneeze and knock them out after that. It's pressing them IN that you need to be careful about. (you can use the same oven trick and it sometimes helps)
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| # ? Mar 22, 2012 08:25 |
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iwentdoodie posted:I'll try that in the morning if I can get someone to help then. No way to make it hold 2500 rpm by myself. You should be able to set the idle to 2500 with your idle screw. Make sure you have a fan blowing over the engine though, to cool it while stationary.
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| # ? Mar 22, 2012 21:50 |
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Geirskogul posted:I can confirm that my CB400T has an actual choke plate system (complete with many springs and adjusting nuts).
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| # ? Mar 23, 2012 21:28 |
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Got my tube replaced today! It rode well between the shop and my house, then I took it out to run an errand and got into some trouble. I was in 5th gear (I'm pretty sure) when the engine started making some strange noises. I may have been going too fast for the gearing, but I quickly geared down and continued on. I came up on a stop light and pulled my clutch, and the bike died while I was slowing. Won't restart. I put it in a parking lot nearby and a friend I was riding with helped me figure it out. The only way I could start it was to hold a little gas while kickstarting, and it completely refused to idle. I got a lot of white smoke for a while, but it cleared up later. I limbed it back to my house, and started testing some stuff. It sparks fine on both sides, but here's the weird thing. With the right side plug out, the engine will run perfectly fine. Started with just one or two spins of the starter, and had no complaints idling. We switched plugs, cables, and came up with the same conclusion. So, we deduced it was the timing and/or points. 1)Are we right? 2)How can I fix it? I've got the Clymer service manual but it definitely can't compare to firsthand experience. 3)If need be, is it safe to limp it to a shop with one spark plug removed? I'd imagine not. Oh, I forgot to mention. After limping it back to my house the first time, we let it rest for about a half hour, and then came back too it and it wouldn't start even if you were on the throttle like before. The only time it's ran after that was when we had the right plug removed.
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| # ? Mar 24, 2012 01:48 |
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So, after testing and seeing that everything was good (stator, rotor, regulator) I guess I'm going to break down and buy another battery. But in good news, I can get a new SLA battery for less than ten bucks on amazon AND a 1 amp trickle charger for less than a real MC battery costs. I love that you can use a home security battery on these things. And the savings means I can still go ahead and throw a new adjustable VR/R on there.
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| # ? Mar 24, 2012 02:44 |
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I had a bad day. Number 3 needle must have gotten gunked, it backfired as I was coming to a stop, drop and roll. Fireman's first question? "Was it a sandcast?"  Some bits are salvageable. Frame done, triples done. Fork uppers done. Fork lowers appear to have been out of the HAZ. Tires didn't pop so the rims shouldn't have heat treated. Bottom end is questionable, no paint burned off, no warp or discoloration in the case. Top end is fine strangely. Carb and spark plug boots still in place, unmelted. If I decide to rebuild this one, the case will be split for exploration first. Gas poured out of number 3 intake when I removed the carbs, didn't seem to be down on power, no shakes, and it sounded good until the pop. I heard the backfire, felt my boots get warm. I looked down, pulled over and stood it on the kickstand and wept. I put 2 gallons of fuel in it. I must have broken some gunk out of the new old tank. The sound of gas boiling is frightening. Bring a small extinguisher with on shakedowns and the fire department won't be needed. It wasn't much of a fire when I got off, bottom of the airbox on fire, but there was nothing around to stop it. And no good way to smother it. It traveled up the harness boiling the underside of the tank up to the dash. Hindsight shows there were a few things I should have done differently, but there were no injuries but pride.
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| # ? Mar 24, 2012 04:07 |
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Sorry for you my friend at least you didn't get hurt.
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| # ? Mar 24, 2012 04:14 |
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| # ? May 19, 2013 02:30 |
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kenny powerzzz posted:Sorry for you my friend at least you didn't get hurt. They are calling me La Flama Blanca.
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| # ? Mar 24, 2012 04:17 |
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