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aniero
Oct 11, 2009

egon_beeblebrox posted:

I don't know about the ending differences. I think the implications are VERY different. Big Spoilers: In the script, Coop/BOB stays cool, just squeezing the toothpaste. No reason to believe it's NOT Coop. The final version has him freaking the gently caress out with Truman and Doc Hayward on the other side of the door. After all that's gone on, do you think they wouldn't know something's up?

And, yeah, the final script is terrible. It's been a long time since reading it, but I recall A DEMON DENTIST or some dumb rear end thing.

I see what you mean, but it didn't change the fact that Cooper=BOB, which is pretty much the big shocker at the end. But can you imagine actually watching that scene if it had been done the original way? It has zero impact or horror. It's loving boring.

Also,

There is a very good reason Coop ends up smashing his head. We know BOB does not kill who he posses, merely locks their true self within the confines of the Black Lodge. If we believe the eyes are a window into the soul then the soul resides in the skull. When Leland removed Bob (or when Bob killed Leland depending on how one looks at it) they did so by repeatedly smashing Leland's head. The final scene implies that Coop is attempting to expel Bob in what may be his last act of free will.

There's a thread for Fire Walk With me here: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3185233

nobody's posted in it since August, but there are some links to some very fascinating reading about characters and theories. A lot of what I think about the series and the movie has been through reading the analysis of others, so if it seems I'm ripping someone off, it's probably because I am and just don't know it

quote:

The show dragged so badly during those sequences that it actually became unpleasant to watch, kind of like Kate-centric episodes of Lost, for those who watch that.

gently caress yes!! I couldn't agree more!

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egon_beeblebrox
Mar 1, 2008

WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.



aniero posted:



When Leland removed Bob (or when Bob killed Leland depending on how one looks at it) they did so by repeatedly smashing Leland's head. The final scene implies that Coop is attempting to expel Bob in what may be his last act of free will.

Oh, man, I'd never thought of that. It makes perfect sense.

Big Bad Voodoo Lou
Jan 1, 2006
OK, I just saw the end, and I have to quote my dad upon seeing Fellowship of the Ring in the theater, not realizing it was the first part of a trilogy...

BULLSHIT!

Maybe I'll feel differently about it in the morning.

Malaleb
Dec 1, 2008
My dad introduced me to the show a few years back, although he was one of the people during its original run who lost interest shortly after the conclusion of the Laura Palmer case. To be honest, I don't blame him. Though there were some good moments, it was a chore getting through a good chunk of season 2. The only reason I kept watching was because I had heard something real cool happens at the end of the season. But man, the high points of the show are some of the best TV ever! I still haven't seen the original pilot (wasn't on DVD at the time) or Fire Walk with Me so I should watch those, although if Fire Walk with Me is as scary as I've heard it is, I'm dreading the ensuing nightmares.

I have to admit that I was sitting in the dark reading this thread, and I had to turn on the lights because I had the horrifying image of Bob grinning at me from across the room. :aaa:

Be Depressive
Jul 8, 2006
"The drawings of the girls are badly proportioned and borderline pedo material. But"
Bob is one of the scariest villains ever. I actually used to live with a schizophrenic named Bob who looked exactly like this and one night I woke up to him crawling around the floor in my bedroom looking for something and I freaked the gently caress out and started screaming and throwing things at him.

I think he was just looking for a movie actually and didn't want to wake me up by turning the lights on, but jesus christ man...

I saw this show when it originally aired. I was 12. It was my favorite show.

SimonChris
Apr 24, 2008

The Baron's daughter is missing, and you are the man to find her. No problem. With your inexhaustible arsenal of hard-boiled similes, there is nothing you can't handle.
Grimey Drawer

Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:

EDIT: SimonChris, thanks for the Bookhouse Boys explanation. I can't believe I missed that! I don't suppose you remember what episode that came from?

I don't, but i googled it and it seems to be Episode 3 - "Rest in Pain". Also, it turns out the bookhouse boys even have their own Wikipedia page.

iCloud Strife
Jul 24, 2007

by angerbeet

egon_beeblebrox posted:

Also Maddie's murder is more terrifying than anything else that comes from "Twin Peaks." Really freaked me out when I first watched.

Can you tell me if this happened on TV or if it was in the movie?

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004


Grimey Drawer
It happened on TV.

SimonChris
Apr 24, 2008

The Baron's daughter is missing, and you are the man to find her. No problem. With your inexhaustible arsenal of hard-boiled similes, there is nothing you can't handle.
Grimey Drawer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vftf8TTve4s

Big Bad Voodoo Lou
Jan 1, 2006

SimonChris posted:

I don't, but i googled it and it seems to be Episode 3 - "Rest in Pain". Also, it turns out the bookhouse boys even have their own Wikipedia page.

Well poo poo, I completely skipped this episode! I wondered why Cooper never followed through on telling Truman about his dream the next morning, and it was because I never saw this one. Laura Palmer's funeral, the explanation of the Bookhouse Boys, and even the third Renault brother that they referred to repeatedly but I didn't remember seeing. Hell, this was a key episode, so I'm glad I finally saw it.

I am left with one question, though. Who knocked out Dr. Jacoby the night Donna and James sneaked into his office while he was spying on Maddy in the bushes? Was that ever revealed?

EDIT: aniero, would you mind posting the original script for the finale somewhere (when you get a chance)? I'd love to read it and see the differences, now that I've given the finale a second viewing.

Big Bad Voodoo Lou fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Nov 12, 2009

aniero
Oct 11, 2009

Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:

I am left with one question, though. Who knocked out Dr. Jacoby the night Donna and James sneaked into his office while he was spying on Maddy in the bushes? Was that ever revealed?

It was Bob/Leland. Remember Jacoby in the ER, he smelled burnt engine oil, which we find out is the substance in the center of the sycamore trees is Glastonbury Grove. Ronette also reacts violently when Cooper subjectes her to the oil in the jar the Log Lady brings cooper in the last episode. If you've seen FWWM, it's why Leland revs the poo poo out his engine in the scene with the one armed man at the traffic stop.

Yes, I will post the script later tonight

el oso
Feb 18, 2005

phew, for a minute there i lost myself
I remembered liking the show as a kid but remembering next to nothing about it. One night a couple of years ago Fire Walk With Me was on TV, so I sat down and watched it. It really freaked me out in that unsettling, indefinable way that Lynch has, so of course I had to watch the rest of the series after that. (I'm not sure how much more effective the show is or isn't by knowing who Laura's killer is before watching the series, but it didn't take away any of the impact of the reveal for me)

The 1st season was very strong, and the 2nd season is also pretty good until Maddy's death and the Leland/BOB reveal, which I thought was one of the most terrifying things to have been filmed for network TV. After that episode, things really go downhill in most of the major plotlines, and the show seems to actually become the boring and corny small-town soap opera it started out satirizing. Clearly this is because of Lynch's departure from the show for the majority of the season.

I absolutely loved the finale, and it is definitely a pretty big kiss-off to Frost and the other writers from Lynch because he didn't like the direction they had gone in the 2nd season. It seems to me that he decided to just completely write off some of the characters and storylines of the season up to that point in the finale and go back to his trademark Lynchian weirdness and focus on the things that he found interesting. It is too bad that we never will have another glimpse into the Black Lodge, but I found the ending very satisfying even though it was a pretty big cliffhanger.

Another thing that has to be mentioned is the fantastic score by Angelo Badalamenti. It fit the series perfectly, giving it a perfect dreamlike quality and anachronistic feel that the rest of the show hits. It's soothing but unsettling at the same time and adds so much to the overall feel of the show.

Big Bad Voodoo Lou
Jan 1, 2006
I think my biggest complaints about the finale were that Pete and Audrey, two innocents and two of the more likeable characters, most likely died along with Andrew Packard, while Catherine, who was anything but innocent, seemed to get away scott-free.

el oso
Feb 18, 2005

phew, for a minute there i lost myself

Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:

I think my biggest complaints about the finale were that Pete and Audrey, two innocents and two of the more likeable characters, most likely died along with Andrew Packard, while Catherine, who was anything but innocent, seemed to get away scott-free.

Like I said, I don't think that Lynch was happy at all with what the show had turned into while he was gone, so when he came back to shoot the finale he killed off the few likable characters left and completely disregarded the storylines of others and created something he found to be interesting. If you read the original finale script, it's pretty different from what ended up on the screen.

Definitely a dick move by Lunch to cast aside what the other writers and actors had built up to that point, but to be fair what they did in the 2nd half of the 2nd season was crap and what Lynch did with the finale was fantastic, so it's hard to fault at him for it.

el oso fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Nov 17, 2009

aniero
Oct 11, 2009

Here's the finale script as it was originally written, unchanged by Lynch...

http://live.limitbreakradio.com/script29.pdf

I'd like to know what everyone thinks of this script vs the way Lynch re-did the ending

redshirt
Aug 11, 2007

Reporting for shovel mission Sir.
The TV score is definitely an album worth picking up. Very atmospheric and jazzy. Great stuff.

The Cosby Mysteries
Oct 5, 2007

Happy Birthday, Mr. President

redshirt posted:

The TV score is definitely an album worth picking up. Very atmospheric and jazzy. Great stuff.

What the? Why is Little Jimmy Scott's 'Sycamore Trees' on the FWWM soundtrack and not on either of the series OSTs? I don't recall that song being included in the movie at all. :confused:

egon_beeblebrox
Mar 1, 2008

WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.



The Cosby Mysteries posted:

What the? Why is Little Jimmy Scott's 'Sycamore Trees' on the FWWM soundtrack and not on either of the series OSTs? I don't recall that song being included in the movie at all. :confused:

Season one's soundtrack was the only one released in that time frame, so, Lynch wanted to include "Sycamore Trees" somewhere, and put it on the FWWM soundtrack. Season two's soundtrack only came out fairly recently, and since "Sycamore Trees" was already on one of them, why repeat it?

Big Bad Voodoo Lou
Jan 1, 2006
Just found this funny Twin Peaks parody from when Kyle MacLachlan hosted Saturday Night Live back in 1990. I wouldn't have gotten the jokes back then, but it was hilarious now that I've seen the show.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7o2ca_twin-peaks-parody-by-saturday-night_fun

Note Conan O'Brien as the non-speaking cop guarding Leo!

redshirt
Aug 11, 2007

Reporting for shovel mission Sir.

The Cosby Mysteries posted:

What the? Why is Little Jimmy Scott's 'Sycamore Trees' on the FWWM soundtrack and not on either of the series OSTs? I don't recall that song being included in the movie at all. :confused:

Sorry. I was specifically referring to the album named "Twin Peaks", and the artist is Angelo Badalamenti.

There's FWWM; what other TP albums are out there?

Quote-Unquote
Oct 22, 2002



redshirt posted:

Sorry. I was specifically referring to the album named "Twin Peaks", and the artist is Angelo Badalamenti.

There's FWWM; what other TP albums are out there?

There's also a 'Music From Season Two And More' album which came out last year. It's really, really good*. As mentioned previously, Sycamore Trees was excluded from the first CD because that came out before the season 2 finale, so it was later put on the FWWM soundtrack, therefore no reason to put it on the Season 2 soundtrack that only came out in 2008.

*Except it has that horrible goddamn "Just Yooooooou, and IIIII-IIIII" poo poo that James sings with Donna and Maddie right before BAM, BOB out of loving nowhere!!!

Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:

Just found this funny Twin Peaks parody from when Kyle MacLachlan hosted Saturday Night Live back in 1990. I wouldn't have gotten the jokes back then, but it was hilarious now that I've seen the show.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7o2ca_twin-peaks-parody-by-saturday-night_fun

Note Conan O'Brien as the non-speaking cop guarding Leo!

The Cookie Monster parodied Twin Peaks superbly http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vftf8TTve4s

Or even sillier, Lego Twin Peaks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zydZq2lVnns (This one might be slightly spoilery, sort of...)

Quote-Unquote fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Nov 20, 2009

Paracelsus
Apr 6, 2009

bless this post ~kya

redshirt posted:

Sorry. I was specifically referring to the album named "Twin Peaks", and the artist is Angelo Badalamenti.

There's FWWM; what other TP albums are out there?

"Floating Into the Night" by Julee Cruise is pretty much a TP album.

Big Bad Voodoo Lou
Jan 1, 2006
drat! My library-borrowed copy of Fire Walk With Me keeps freezing and skipping, starting right around the time we're introduced to Agent Cooper in Philadelphia. There is no way I can watch the movie this way, and NONE of the local Blockbusters carry it either.

egon_beeblebrox
Mar 1, 2008

WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.



Paracelsus posted:

"Floating Into the Night" by Julee Cruise is pretty much a TP album.

And it's pretty loving good.

ExplodingSquid
Aug 11, 2008

I really want Lynch to make another ep or movie...but I know it's impossible to do. :( Everyone would just look weird if they got the original cast (presuming their all alive?).

egon_beeblebrox
Mar 1, 2008

WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.



ExplodingSquid posted:

I really want Lynch to make another ep or movie...but I know it's impossible to do. :( Everyone would just look weird if they got the original cast (presuming their all alive?).

BOB is dead, so it'd be strange.

Big Bad Voodoo Lou
Jan 1, 2006

egon_beeblebrox posted:

BOB is dead, so it'd be strange.

So is Pete Martell.

ExplodingSquid
Aug 11, 2008

I didn't know these things. :( This makes me sad.

Gabriel Grub
Dec 18, 2004

ExplodingSquid posted:

I really want Lynch to make another ep or movie...but I know it's impossible to do. :( Everyone would just look weird if they got the original cast (presuming their all alive?).

I was just thinking the other day how I wouldn't care if they recast this to do a finale movie or something. It's also getting near 25 years, so time for Cooper's prophesied meeting with Laura Palmer, and real-life Kyle McLaughlin looks drat near like fake old Kyle M from the dream.

aniero
Oct 11, 2009

According to the professor of my David Lynch class, there are rumblings of another Twin Peaks move...but I think David Lynch has explicitly said he will have no further involvement with Twin Peaks. I doubt it would happen, but if it did I'd sure as hell be the first one in line to see it.

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004


Grimey Drawer
They should just have continued the series in graphic novel form. I think there were plans for it not long ago; even Frost okayed the idea, but Lynch said no.

EDIT: Found an interview about it here. Interesting to see how far it got.

Escobarbarian fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Nov 29, 2009

egon_beeblebrox
Mar 1, 2008

WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.



Bown posted:

They should just have continued the series in graphic novel form. I think there were plans for it not long ago; even Frost okayed the idea, but Lynch said no.

EDIT: Found an interview about it here. Interesting to see how far it got.

I remember being really excited about this, til I found out that a PLANET OF CREAMED CORN was going to be visited. Seriously, that's just stupid.

Small Strange Bird
Sep 22, 2006

Merci, chaton!

aniero posted:

A lot of other shows have either done an homage or referenced TP is some way...

The most obvious homage to Twin Peaks was Lisa's dream in 'Who Shot Mr. Burns?'



I always kind of thought MST3K missed out on a lot of Twin Peaks jokes...ya know..Mike Nelson and all....
The first season of Northern Exposure (when it was more overtly a comedy rather than a comedy-drama, and they were breaking the fourth wall all the time) had quite a few Twin Peaks references, the biggest being one scene where some Peaks-ish music started up and the characters faced the camera and started talking strangely about coffee and cherry pies.

aniero
Oct 11, 2009

egon_beeblebrox posted:

I remember being really excited about this, til I found out that a PLANET OF CREAMED CORN was going to be visited. Seriously, that's just stupid.

Most likely why Lynch said 'no'

Gabriel Grub
Dec 18, 2004

aniero posted:

my David Lynch class

Wish I'd gone to your university.

Gabriel Grub
Dec 18, 2004

quote:

Recently it was revealed that the upcoming Twin Peaks 'Complete Mystery' dvd box set was to have included a third season graphic novel illustrated by acclaimed artist Matt Haley and written by Twin Peaks producer and story editor Bob Engels. The project got dropped. Why? We asked Matt...

On the one hand I think, "Why don't we loving just do this and get an ending."

On the other hand, David Lynch, who made all the elements worth paying attention to, says no.

I'd like to to know what goes on in Twin Peaks after the end of what we have but if David Lynch says no then it doesn't matter. The series and movie make a pretty great body of work. That nearly twenty years later people are still begging for more reflects well on it.

If David Lynch decides to put a cap on it I'll be pretty loving stoked. If he maintains his position of saying "Hey, it's over, and I'm not interested anymore" then we've still got Twin Peaks as it is.

aniero
Oct 11, 2009

Lemmi Caution posted:

Wish I'd gone to your university.

I know, I saw the class and I just had to take it. We have a lot of film study courses, but this was my first one. It was totally worth taking because, I'll admit it, I didn't always get Lynchs' stuff, now I feel I at least have a better handle on some of it.

Anyway, I'm taking a Cohen Brother film course next semester. Should be fun.

cjg
Sep 5, 2003

Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:

Just found this funny Twin Peaks parody from when Kyle MacLachlan hosted Saturday Night Live back in 1990. I wouldn't have gotten the jokes back then, but it was hilarious now that I've seen the show.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7o2ca_twin-peaks-parody-by-saturday-night_fun

Note Conan O'Brien as the non-speaking cop guarding Leo!

Ha! Good to see Chris Farley and Phil Hartman again.

Rabbit Hill
Mar 11, 2009

God knows what lives in me in place of me.
Grimey Drawer
Didn't David Lynch admit at one point that Lost Highway takes place in the Twin Peaks universe?

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BubbleGoose
Oct 15, 2007

There are so many amendments in the constitution of the United States of America--I can only choose one!
Wow, just when I thought I knew everything there was to know about Twin Peaks I learn something new. It remains my favorite television series to this day. A new Twin Peaks series would bring me endless joy, but I'd be happy with anything Lynch decided to put on television.

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