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Archonic posted:The first season is almost like someone had Lynch just restrained enough in his usual weird poo poo to make it totally accessible. After that, it's as if he said, "either I do it my way or I'm out of here." The shift in tone and structure between the two seasons is incredibly jarring. Actually, this is way way way off. It's the exact opposite. David Lynch directs the first...3 or so episodes of Twin Peaks and decides that he wants to go make Wild At Heart, another really fantastic Lynch movie! When Lynch leaves, he really leaves, so Twin Peaks is left to Frost and the other staff writers. Frost didn't like this at all and decided to start altering things like Agent Cooper's character (about midway through season 2 he starts wearing jeans and flannel instead of his usual suit and Lynch just loving hated that) Lynch comes back to direct the first episode of season 2 (personally, I think he was trying to put the show back on track) and then by the end of the series he came back to direct the final episode and changed the ending all around which pissed off half the TP cast, and Frost. Now, some may remember this, some may not, but Twin Peaks did in fact end it's initial run on ABC with the conclusion of who killed Laura Palmer. There was then an extensive write-in campaign which is where we get about the second half of Season 2. It was at this point ABC mucked around with the schedule and TP got bumped off its original timeslot for...the Olympics? Was that it? Bugger! I can't remember, but it was something like that. Also, something to keep in mind is that David Lynch and Mark Frost butted heads many many times about the direction of the series especially on the cop angle. Mark Frost was famous for Hill Street Blues at the time and so he was bringing that experience to Twin Peaks. After a while Lynch felt Frost was taking the same approach to Twin Peaks as he did to Hill Street Blues, making it into a "cop drama" instead of what Lynch envisions. You can notice that Coopers intuition is less and less emphasized as time went on, this was because of Lynchs' waning involvement. I fear if I go on from here I may spoil the end of the series and/or the movie. But I will just say this, if it had been Lynchs' vision the whole time, I don't think the show would have lasted as long, but it would have been more cohesive, maybe not in a narrative sense but an overall completion of cannon sense. If Lynch did the whole thing, Twin Peaks would have been much more like Fire Walk With Me. It sure wasn't Frosts' influence, just go watch Fantastic 4: Rise of the Silver Surfer if you want to see what Mark Frost has been reduced to these days. aniero fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Nov 9, 2009 |
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Nov 9, 2009 00:26
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| # ¿ Apr 24, 2024 21:47 |
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A lot of other shows have either done an homage or referenced TP is some way... The most obvious homage to Twin Peaks was Lisa's dream in 'Who Shot Mr. Burns?'  I always kind of thought MST3K missed out on a lot of Twin Peaks jokes...ya know..Mike Nelson and all....
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Nov 9, 2009 02:20
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egon_beeblebrox posted:In 'The Final Sacrifice' (I think), Servo hums the theme song for a bit. So we get Twin Peaks AND Rowsdower. WOW! I never realized that! Gonna have to pop in Final Sacrifice tonight! EDIT: I found on a torrent site the original script for how the series finale was originally written before David Lynch came back and changed the finale. Why anyone was pissed about what Lynch changed I'll never know cause that script is loving garbage! aniero fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Nov 9, 2009 |
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Nov 9, 2009 04:18
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oh wow, I didn't know that, looks like I'll have to check that game out after all. So, I took some time last night and compare the original script for the series finale with the way that it was actually done and shot. It's incredible how different they are. Now, for those that aren't read up on the Fire Walk With Me debacle, a lot of the actors were really pissed off at Lynch when he came back to direct the finale and ultimately changed it and made it what it was. Well, when it came time to make "Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me" some actors were "unavailable" like Kyle MacLaughlin and Lara Flynn Boyle. Well MacLaughlin later changed his mind which is why Agent Cooper does make a brief appearance in FWWM, but his initial refusal is why Agent Chet Desmond is shown investigating the murder of Theresa Banks, when in the show and Agent Cooper's autobiography stated that it was Cooper that investigated the Banks murder. Here's what pisses me off: the original script is loving dumb. Really really dumb. I'm going to put the .pdf on my server and share it when I get a minute because when you read it you'll be shocked. Lynch saved the finale from becoming a loving joke, the actors should have praised him from saving them from the shame of how the end was originally written. And let me just say this, the very very end, the final scene, wasn't even changed that much. I've tried to make this as spoiler free as possible, but please see Fire Walk With Me after you finish the series, it's pretty cool to see how Lynch sets up the introduction of Teresa Banks' ring in the finale of the series with Annie. watch her right arm...it's numb.
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Nov 9, 2009 19:17
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egon_beeblebrox posted:I don't know about the ending differences. I think the implications are VERY different. Big Spoilers: In the script, Coop/BOB stays cool, just squeezing the toothpaste. No reason to believe it's NOT Coop. The final version has him freaking the gently caress out with Truman and Doc Hayward on the other side of the door. After all that's gone on, do you think they wouldn't know something's up? I see what you mean, but it didn't change the fact that Cooper=BOB, which is pretty much the big shocker at the end. But can you imagine actually watching that scene if it had been done the original way? It has zero impact or horror. It's loving boring. Also, There is a very good reason Coop ends up smashing his head. We know BOB does not kill who he posses, merely locks their true self within the confines of the Black Lodge. If we believe the eyes are a window into the soul then the soul resides in the skull. When Leland removed Bob (or when Bob killed Leland depending on how one looks at it) they did so by repeatedly smashing Leland's head. The final scene implies that Coop is attempting to expel Bob in what may be his last act of free will. There's a thread for Fire Walk With me here: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3185233 nobody's posted in it since August, but there are some links to some very fascinating reading about characters and theories. A lot of what I think about the series and the movie has been through reading the analysis of others, so if it seems I'm ripping someone off, it's probably because I am and just don't know it quote:The show dragged so badly during those sequences that it actually became unpleasant to watch, kind of like Kate-centric episodes of Lost, for those who watch that. gently caress yes!! I couldn't agree more!
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Nov 10, 2009 07:18
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Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:I am left with one question, though. Who knocked out Dr. Jacoby the night Donna and James sneaked into his office while he was spying on Maddy in the bushes? Was that ever revealed? It was Bob/Leland. Remember Jacoby in the ER, he smelled burnt engine oil, which we find out is the substance in the center of the sycamore trees is Glastonbury Grove. Ronette also reacts violently when Cooper subjectes her to the oil in the jar the Log Lady brings cooper in the last episode. If you've seen FWWM, it's why Leland revs the poo poo out his engine in the scene with the one armed man at the traffic stop. Yes, I will post the script later tonight
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Nov 12, 2009 23:09
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Here's the finale script as it was originally written, unchanged by Lynch... http://live.limitbreakradio.com/script29.pdf I'd like to know what everyone thinks of this script vs the way Lynch re-did the ending
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Nov 17, 2009 08:29
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According to the professor of my David Lynch class, there are rumblings of another Twin Peaks move...but I think David Lynch has explicitly said he will have no further involvement with Twin Peaks. I doubt it would happen, but if it did I'd sure as hell be the first one in line to see it.
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Nov 29, 2009 17:38
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egon_beeblebrox posted:I remember being really excited about this, til I found out that a PLANET OF CREAMED CORN was going to be visited. Seriously, that's just stupid. Most likely why Lynch said 'no'
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Nov 29, 2009 19:00
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Lemmi Caution posted:Wish I'd gone to your university. I know, I saw the class and I just had to take it. We have a lot of film study courses, but this was my first one. It was totally worth taking because, I'll admit it, I didn't always get Lynchs' stuff, now I feel I at least have a better handle on some of it. Anyway, I'm taking a Cohen Brother film course next semester. Should be fun.
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Nov 29, 2009 20:52
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Rabbit Hill posted:Didn't David Lynch admit at one point that Lost Highway takes place in the Twin Peaks universe? I've never heard that, it'd be kinda cool though EDIT: I went back and watch Lost Highway....I could totally see that now. aniero fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Dec 2, 2009 |
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Nov 30, 2009 10:06
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Dude, it's OK, cause I'm pretty sure he hosed up who shot him anyway.... in all fairness you might not want to surf a forum about a TV show that's 2 decades off the air...I think the time limit on spoilers is kinda up..
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Feb 2, 2010 04:28
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Zero Karizma posted:Sorry to resurrect, but I just watched the pilot and started getting into this. This show was loving awesome! I envy you so much!! Enjoy the ride!
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Mar 4, 2010 07:10
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I think this is the best summation of Twin Peaks I've ever read. I agree 100%
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Mar 11, 2010 04:47
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IMO the movie and series finale make up for all the awful season 2 bullshit ever wonder how lovely the fnale would have been had Lynch not stepped in and make it the crazy thing that it is? Well, then give this a read! aniero posted:Here's the finale script as it was originally written, unchanged by Lynch... aniero fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Mar 13, 2010 |
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Mar 13, 2010 17:48
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I actually think the movie answered quite a bit about the nature of BOB, MFAP and the rest of the Black Lodge inhabitants. I completely understand why you would feel like that though, Ixian. I think the best example of Lynch really trying to be Lynchian weird is Inland Empire, which is a tough one for a lot of people to get into, but one that I really liked after a few viewings. It seems like a cop-out, but I always have to remind myself that 3 movies were originally planned, so I don't think Lynch was necessarily making GBS threads on fans (though it's pretty well known that Lynch didn't like the way in which the characters changed in the hands of Frost/Engles), but was setting up the other 2 movies. So I look at it like an incomplete concept. I've always wondered what he/they had planned for the other 2 movies. aniero fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Mar 13, 2010 |
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Mar 13, 2010 21:41
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I've heard that same rumor, I've also heard rumors of doing another movie with new actors. Who knows if anything will ever become of it. I wouldn't hold my breath though.
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Mar 14, 2010 04:52
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I would imagine that the intellectual property is shared by Lynch and Frost so if Lynch says no then I'm pretty sure that's it. I'd love to read that comic though.
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Mar 14, 2010 22:27
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I think Andy goes down as the best comic relief in a drama ever. Hurley from LOST is a close 2nd though.
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Mar 15, 2010 21:23
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I will just say this: if you can make it past season 3, it gets much easier and better from there. I'll be honest, I had the very same opinion of LOST. I did the same thing, watched Twin Peaks, heard all the comparisons to LOST, borrowed my roommates DVDs and plowed through 5 seasons in 2 weeks. Part of the reason I feel the show drags is because they had a fully realized concept for the show but no official time frame for when it would end. So you end up with episodes that do nothing to advance the story like Fire & Water and Stranger in a Strange Land. There's a mid point is season 3 where they finally negotiated an end date and the show has a marked improvement. I know I sound like an apologist because normally I would say that having to plod through 3 seasons to get to the good stuff is completely inexcusable. However, I think there's a lot in Seasons 1-3 that are really really good. especially in retrospect with the context of how the show advances. There's a lot of little stuff going on that isn't totally clear until much later. It's a fascinating way of writing, and their attention to detail is stunning. Sorry, didn't mean to derail into LOST but a lot of comparisons are made between the two shows, albeit sometimes unfairly.
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Mar 15, 2010 21:53
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Well, on my first time through LOST my roommate and I pretty much "MST3Ked" that poo poo. So, I totally get what you mean. The melodrama of LOST is painful while the melodrama of Twin Peaks is almost seems tongue-in-cheek. Honestly, that scene of James, Donna and Maddy singing that god awful song had me first wanting to vomit, the had me rolling with laughter right up until Maddy sees BOB...then I poo poo my pants when he did that crawl across the living room of the Palmers. That's one hell of a range of emotions in just 3 or so minutes. You just don't get those moments in LOST. If you're that far in LOST just keep plugging away, while I know the show's not for everyone I got surprisingly into the show for how much I made fun of it on the outset.
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Mar 16, 2010 00:22
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Tewratomeh posted:drat... not looking forward to the Second Season now, but I'm going to watch it anyways. When did Lynch leave the series? After Laura's killer is revealed? Not even, Lynch left after the 3'rd or 4'th episode in the 1st season. He left to go make Wild at Heart (a wildly fun Lynch flick in my opinion). Which is weird because he had a role on the show as Agent Gordon Cole but yet he still wasn't directing, and to me knowledge not writing, Twin Peaks at that point. To say that show had production problems is an understatement.
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Mar 18, 2010 03:53
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Thanks for correcting me, although I do know for sure that Lynch wasn't happy with the direction that the show went in season 2 and famously came back, changed the end around and pissed off half the cast. He had to be less involved in the writing at some point to feel the need to take back the reins of the show, which is guess why I thought that. It's possible Lynch and Frost wrote the large arcs (Laura's Death, One Eyed Jacks, The Lodges, etc) which would give him writing credits on the entire series, but I have no actual evidence of this. I'm trying to remember which episodes Lynch directs in S2 besides the finale but I just can't remember.
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Mar 18, 2010 04:47
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One thing I always kind of wondered about was the line in the giants riddle "The owls are not what they seem" (spoilered just to be safe, i guess) I never caught what this was in reference to. Thoughts?
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Mar 28, 2010 05:36
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Oh good, glad you're digging it! I'm always kind of worried when I give out recommendations, I seem to have about a 50/50 hit/miss ratio. I can't decide which I like more between LOST and Twin Peaks, I think mostly because LOST hasn't finished.
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Mar 30, 2010 17:28
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I completely agree with you Tewratomeh If you want yet another view of David Lynch, watch The Elephant Man and The Straight Story. I love Lynch because he tries to do new things. I can't think of a movie with the narrative structure of Lost Highway, Inland Empire was shot on DV or mini-DV (I forget which), and Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me is essentially (BIG BIG SPOILERS) the story of an incest survivor that gets murdered. I can't think of much else that addresses that topic. Enthusiasm is the right word for Lynch, I think people mistake his weirdness for arrogance, when really some of his movies are ambiguous and he refuses to give answers. He chooses to leave people dangling with no clear direction or any idea of the intention of the piece and I think that frustrates people. But it's that ambiguity that I just love.
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May 23, 2010 19:40
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Mel Brooks called David Lynch "Jimmy Stewart from Mars" and for years Lynch's only bio info was "Eagle Scout born in Misoula, Montana". I think both capture his personality.
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May 23, 2010 23:14
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And don't forget the later part of season 2 has David Duchovny in drag! So, if nothing else, at least there's that.
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Aug 1, 2010 23:43
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 I picked up this print from Tim Doyle called "En Los Arboles" It's really a stunning print and really sums up the show in every possible visual way.
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Aug 27, 2010 06:15
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Hey hey now, the first time I saw Evangelion the only way I could describe the series ending was that "it went all David Lynch", so I think the comparison is valid. I mean, if nothing else, Hideaki Anno and David Lynch are two men that look at what they do as art and that TV/animation/movies are their medium for their self expression. As a side note, David Lynch's animation is pretty weird. I've only seen Dumbland and some of his short films but I'm told other (possibly better) pieces exist.
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Aug 28, 2010 17:54
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Thanks for The Kingdom suggestion. Had no idea that was Lars Von Trier!
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Nov 9, 2010 00:12
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Thats loving awesome!!!!!
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Dec 20, 2011 05:28
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This is just....I think it's loving fantastic, but it won't be everyone's cup of...coffee. http://twinpeaksrap.bandcamp.com/album/kissing-hands-and-shaking-babies It's a hip hop group called Twin Peaks whose music is laced with tons of (obviously) Twin Peaks and David Lynch references. poo poo is pretty good too. At least I think so.
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Dec 21, 2011 06:22
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Pretty sure the gold box the the definitive set.
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Mar 20, 2012 16:06
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| # ¿ Apr 24, 2024 21:47 |
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That's how, pretty much, everyone feels about Twin Peaks. The short answer is: no, nobody ever explained the finer points of how things like The Black and White Lodges work or even what things mean. The long answer is: the series finale was only meant to be a season finale but the show got canned and there were plans for at least 3 movies. While he was directing Fire Walk With Me, Lynch stated he wanted to make 3 Twin Peaks movies including Fire Walk With Me and the other two movies would wrap up the Twin Peaks universe. The problem: Fire Walk With Me was a financial disaster and it shelved the other two movies. Please, don't ask me to support any of this. I've read SO many Lynch interviews and took a college class on his films so if I went looking for the specific interview or statement or quote, I'd probably never find it.
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Nov 2, 2012 17:33
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