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So about 4 months ago my family and I(only me according to my family) got a puppy and we named him Billy Mays. He made his journey from Georgia to New Jersey as an 8 week old puppy at 12Lbs. He was the cutest puppy I've ever seen and there was just no way I wasn't going to take him. Click here for the full 2048x1536 image. Unfortunately when we got him he had kennel cough, so we got him treated for that and about two weeks later he was a normal puppy filled with an enormous amount of energy. Everyone loved him because all he did was pee on the floor and poop occasionally if we didn't get him out in time and he was just so tiny and cute. Well, now Billy is about 7 months old now and hes at 50LBs. He is a really strong dog and he loves getting in trouble. I assume this is pretty common for puppies to get into trouble, but this guy gets himself in trouble ALL the time and whenever he gets in trouble he is "my dog". Billy has about 30 toys to choose from, but he always loves to seem to chew on anything that isn't his toy. He has destroyed so many things since his arrival. We smack him on the snout when he does something bad if we are there at the time of his misbehaving, if not we usually just scold him and show him what he did. The crazy part about it all is that he knows he is being bad and he just continues to be bad. He also knows commands but sometimes loves to just show off his defiance by not doing what we ask him. Billy really only listens to me because no one else spends time playing with him or walking him. The last time my family had a puppy was when I was around 8, so I really didn't have any help in training our last puppy. Billy's latest thing to do is knock down around 20 summer chairs outside and tear up the tarp that covers them. Before that he enjoyed chewing up the deck outside and chewing on the cables of our air conditioners and ripping apart the door mat that's made of some rope like material.(he still likes doing this) Inside the house he has also chewed off the backings of some of our kitchen chairs, pulled things off the counter, eaten loaves of bread, ripped the house phones down from the counter they were on and broken so many things. He just loves to be bad. He recently was neutered, so he's been wearing a cone on his head. He managed to chew the cheap cone up that the vet gave us, so we bought him a hard plastic one with snaps from Petco and he managed to break that one.(He has been walking into things with it on his head and I assume he ran into something pretty hard and it just cracked.) My father said he has never had a dog as defiant as this one. Sometimes he is a good boy, other times he just wants to be bad to the bone. During the times he's in the living room he will just look at my father and just jump with all his strength right into my father's chest or face. My father doesn't mind it and plays with him when he does it, but this dog is probably going to be getting up to 100Lbs+ and I just don't really think it's a good idea for a dog that size to be jumping into an almost 60YO man's chest. This is Billy a few weeks ago, he looks cute, but he definitely also looks like he has something planned.  Click here for the full 2048x1536 image.
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| # ? Nov 04, 2009 01:01 |
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| # ? Nov 21, 2009 21:53 |
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How much do you exercise him? I'm not just talking walks, I'm talking running him around to chase poo poo for an hour until he's a tired, happy pup. Sounds a little bit like he's enormously bored. Also try hiding some toys/changing them out. If he's around all of his toys all of the time, he'll get bored of them. And the dog has no idea what it did after the fact, so keep up correcting when you catch him doing wrong, but if you come across torn remains of something he did an hour ago (even 15 minutes ago) he won't remember and will get confused as to what the scolding is for. Read up on the Nothing In Life is Free method, as well.
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| # ? Nov 04, 2009 01:18 |
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Help my puppy is being a puppy!!  Don't smack him on the snout. How often do you walk him? What kind of dog is that?
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| # ? Nov 04, 2009 01:20 |
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I walk him twice a day, 4 longs blocks(normal pace around 40 min, fast pace makes it a half hour) and when we get back to the house I usually play with him for about a half hour to an hour. I do a little wrestling with him until his biting gets too rough. He will tear things up even when he's put out in the morning before my parents go to work or I go to class. I don't know if its fully boredom, I'm sure it is sometimes, but just earlier when I was outside playing with him he tried grabbing my Ipod off the deck right infront of me. We don't really know what kind of dog he is. We were told he was a Collie/Lab mix, but I don't think they really knew for sure.
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| # ? Nov 04, 2009 01:47 |
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It sounds like you picked up a puppy on a whim and brought it home to a family that wasn't prepared for the rigors of properly raising a dog. Properly training a dog is an enormous timesink, and requires almost limitless patience. How are his manners? Does he respond to commands? If not, start working on them. If he does, teach him more. It will keep your dog engaged, and will help reinforce the boundaries in your home. Look up NILIF training. It definitely sounds like he's got energy to spare. Up the amount of exercise he gets - not just casual walks around the block, but flat out running, or walks with a weighted backpack, etc. Rotate his toys so he doesn't get bored of them. If he's chewing something he shouldn't be and you catch him in the act, interrupt him and then provide him with an appropriate toy. How is he with other dogs? If he has a dog friend they can be awesome at helping you drain excess energy.
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| # ? Nov 04, 2009 01:51 |
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downthesun posted:The crazy part about it all is that he knows he is being bad and he just continues to be bad. As I understand it, the only crazy part about this is that you believe it's true. From what I've seen discussed in other threads, no your dog does not understand what the hell you're mad at him for. Hitting him and "showing him what he did" just makes him think "I see poop on the floor = the humans are going to hit me again." He doesn't have the capacity to think to himself beforehand "I want to poop, but that will make them hit me." As far as he can tell, you're hitting him because the poop is there, not because you stopped him in the act of pooping or whatever. PS: Don't hit your dog or "show him what he did."
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| # ? Nov 04, 2009 01:58 |
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I could have missed something, but I didn't see you mention ANYTHING about rewarding good behavior, be it treats, praise, etc. It's foolish to think you can train a dog with negative consequences and corrections alone. A dog that gets nothing but corrections isn't going to bond with you or want to obey your commands. It isn't going to get anything out of it. Especially with a "stubborn" dog, you want to encourage good behavior so the dog WANTS to do things right because it gets something out of it. I agree with everyone else, look up NILF training.
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| # ? Nov 04, 2009 02:48 |
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I'm sorry, but this really sounds like a troll - an elaborate troll, but a troll no less. Every statement is the exact opposite of what PI recommends, including the very first sentence (make sure everybody in the household is truly going to be on board and help!). If you want the dog to be good, you have to teach him what "good" is. You do not teach good by doing bad things. Humans barely have the capacity to correlate good and bad without a frame of reference; your dog has no chance. Stop hitting his snout. If you see him tearing in to something he should not be, get his attention and refocus it on to what he should be chewing up. Don't yell at him. A simple, distracting-but-non-threating noise will get him to stop. And then show him what he can chew. Yes, this means you have to be vigilant. If you and your family are not willing to be mindful of training the dog, and ALL being consistent in HOW you train him, then you all have only yourselves to blame when poo poo is ruined. Stop dragging him over to stuff you don't like. Dogs have very basic reasoning skills. They don't correlate what you are showing them to the action that you believe is obvious. The reason they seem to express "guilt" is because they are actually expressing fear and submission because they know you are mad. To get rid of bad behavior, you have to make the GOOD BEHAVIOR more enticing than the bad. A simple way of looking at dogs behavior is to see how it is rewarding the dog. For example, a dog likes to chew. The dog, by default, will view chewing a chair leg the same as chewing a toy. Now, if chewing a toy is associated with your positive attention, praise, and other rewards, chewing the toy suddenly becomes much more rewarding to the dog! If you are consistent in distracting him nicely away from the bad behavior and moving him to the good, he will learn to just skip the "bad" step in favor of going straight for the "good" step that potentially gets him other rewards. Simple! Exercise your dog! Four blocks? Did I read that right? Four blocks is nothing to a dog. Your dog will run four blocks in place while sleeping. Unless your blocks are a mile long each, you should think about doing more laps and at a quicker pace. This time of year may be difficult, understandably, so you can find other ways of draining energy if you don't want to deal with longer times in the cold. Training tricks in a positive environment is also stimulating to a dog and will help drain energy. Tug-a-war, fetch (indoor and outdoor), hide and seek (indoor and outdoor) are all great ways of draining energy as well as good, simple ways of teaching your dog good behavior. Tug-a-war = take and give, fetch is retrieve, hide and seek is stay and come.
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| # ? Nov 04, 2009 03:38 |
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Well, my father enjoys having the dog around, he does love the dog, but my mother has a problem with showing affection and apparently every time this family has had a dog, from the time my sister was a child(shes 39 now) my mother has always said "its your dog not mine". I didn't realize this until now because the last dog we had we adopted when he was 7 years old because I felt bad for him because he was living at my sister's animal hospital on and off for a year because people would bring him back and his original owners abused him. She would say your father and you wanted this dog, not me, which was understandable to me at the time because she really didn't want him. If I leave him alone for a half hour he will do a little tearing up in the kitchen(hes not as bad as he useto be) and he will just walk right into his bed and sit down in the back with a I know I was bad face. He doesn't poo poo or piss in the house, he is house trained now. He responds to commands when he wants to. When he is a on a walk I tell him to sit at each street corner and he does so. When he is at home sometimes he will sit, other times just look at me. Also, is there anyway I can help him get used to cats and cats get used to him? One of our cats was friends with our last dog but he seems kind of scared of Billy because he gets really excited by the cats. One of our other cats is/was a huge rear end in a top hat to each of the three dogs he has known. My dog has one "friend". My cousin's dog is the only dog he has played with. He seems to just jump and smack him with his paws and chase him around and tackle him. They sometimes growl at each other but don't bite. He meets dogs on the street and he gets kind of excited if they are excited, barks if they bark, sniffs if they sniff. We do give him treats when he is good. Usually when he listens to a command or if he goes into his bed after coming in from outside. downthesun fucked around with this message at Nov 04, 2009 around 05:01 |
| # ? Nov 04, 2009 04:55 |
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downthesun posted:He responds to commands when he wants to. When he is a on a walk I tell him to sit at each street corner and he does so. When he is at home sometimes he will sit, other times just look at me. This right here just jumped out at me. If I had to wager a guess, your dog probably realizes that outside he's on a leash and your in control, where as in the house he feels he can do what he want. If you give a command and he doesn't listen, do you just give up? If that's the case, then the dog knows to be stubborn and just wait it out. You have to have follow-through with commands EVERY time. This is when particularly tasty treats come in handy. You'll want to keep them on hand, and treat the dog for doing what he's supposed to, but not necessarily every time. That way your dog learns that chances are pretty good he'll get something, but not every time, so he's more likely to listen in a pinch. This, however, is only advisable once you know for sure your dog has a grasp on all his commands. Do you crate train your dog? It would really help you out in situations where you can't keep an eye on him. He can't destroy things if he can't get to them! If you're only turning your back for a second, though, be vigilant. If a situation comes up where your dog looks like he's going to get into trouble, give him a command like "Leave it". If he looks at you or hesitates for even a second before going to grab something, praise him like crazy and give him a treat. He has to know he's being good for leaving stuff alone, because it sounds like getting yelled at isn't a deterrent enough for the pleasure he gets out of chewing things. You should also work on your "Leave it" command during training sessions.
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| # ? Nov 04, 2009 12:31 |
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yeah, we crate train him. He stays in his bed over night and when no one is home. I don't think we'd have a kitchen anymore if we didn't have a cage for him. I don't give up in the house when I am telling him to sit. Sometimes it ends up with us pushing his butt down. We praise him afterward regardless of how long it takes him to listen or if we have to push his butt down. When in the living room trying to get him to sit, hes not allowed to have treats in there because he gets "crumbs" everywhere, even with the smallest of treats that make no crumbs. Apparently my parents haven't heard of vacuuming. My mother is really the only person that is refusing the dog now. She loves him when people compliment him or if he is being good, but the second he is bad, he's my dog and she "wanted a German Shepherd". I've spoken to her about it so many times on how I don't want to hear that poo poo the rest of the dog's life and it never gets through to her. It's aggravating for me and I feel bad that the dog has to live with someone who doesn't want to love it, but my mother is a selfish person and cannot express feelings of love or compassion towards anything or anyone.
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| # ? Nov 04, 2009 14:25 |
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downthesun posted:She loves him when people compliment him or if he is being good, but the second he is bad, he's my dog and she "wanted a German Shepherd". I've spoken to her about it so many times on how I don't want to hear that poo poo the rest of the dog's life and it never gets through to her.  That's so sad. I know what it's like to have a dog of a breed/mix you don't really want or like but that isn't the dog's fault, and it's awful that he's having to pay the price for someone's selfishness.
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| # ? Nov 04, 2009 15:20 |
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Read the puppy thread. The whole thing (even the parts that you feel like shouldn't apply because you already have the dog). Check out the books that are recommended, read up on Nothing In Life Is Free and get everyone in the house to use it. Find an obedience class nearby that uses positive reinforcement techniques and drag your mother there if you need to (it's important to have someone outside of the family tell her she's being stupid, it makes more of an impact). If she won't come, get a trainer to come to your house and sit down with the whole family. Do not hit the dog. Do not force his butt down (he doesn't learn from it). Use a treat that cannot produce crumbs (hot dogs, a lot of the semi soft treats) in the living room if need be. Or volunteer to vacuum the living room twice a week. Your dad needs to stop allowing the dog to jump up on him. Period. If he continues to allow it he's putting himself and other people the dog interacts with in danger. One day it's not going to be so cute anymore (though to be honest I doubt the dog will hit 100lbs if he's 50lbs at 7 months, 75lbs maybe). Do not leave him unsupervised outside of his crate (at ALL) until he's no longer destructive (this may be a few months from now). Your 7 month old untrained puppy is being a 7 month old untrained puppy. Training classes will give you a better ability to interact with him (body language and such) and the socialization he needs. Being consistent and firm (NOT PHYSICAL) with him at home will make it clear to him what the rules are.
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| # ? Nov 04, 2009 16:34 |
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Figure out something he likes, whether it's a particular treat, or a squeaky toy, or whatever. Then only give him these high value items after he does something for you. As others have said, look up NILIF for basic training ideas. When my dog was a pup, she learned pretty quickly that she has to do something to get food rewards. It could be as simple as "sit" or as difficult (for her) as "stay" while I'm walking around the room doing distracting things. Have you done any training classes at all? It sounds like you (and the dog) would benefit from a basic obedience class...
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| # ? Nov 04, 2009 16:55 |
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WolfensteinBag posted:I could have missed something, but I didn't see you mention ANYTHING about rewarding good behavior, be it treats, praise, etc. It's foolish to think you can train a dog with negative consequences and corrections alone. A dog that gets nothing but corrections isn't going to bond with you or want to obey your commands. It isn't going to get anything out of it. Especially with a "stubborn" dog, you want to encourage good behavior so the dog WANTS to do things right because it gets something out of it. mushroom_spore posted:As I understand it, the only crazy part about this is that you believe it's true. From what I've seen discussed in other threads, no your dog does not understand what the hell you're mad at him for. Hitting him and "showing him what he did" just makes him think "I see poop on the floor = the humans are going to hit me again."
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| # ? Nov 05, 2009 21:23 |
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SKeefe posted:Out of genuine curiosity, if a dog doesn't understand he is being spanked for pooping on the floor, how do they understand that they are being given a treat for pooping in the grass? I think it's a timing issue, not a punishment/positive reinforcement issue. Just as a dog wouldn't understand "pooping in the house is bad" if you showed him the poo and spanked him an hour after the fact, the dog wouldn't understand "pooping outside is good" if you found a turd that it had put there an hour beforehand and praised him for it. The way I understand things, it's when you praise the dog while it's pooing or directly after it's pooing that the association is made.
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| # ? Nov 05, 2009 21:31 |
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SKeefe posted:Out of genuine curiosity, if a dog doesn't understand he is being spanked for pooping on the floor, how do they understand that they are being given a treat for pooping in the grass? Timing. The dog would understand being hit for pooping on the floor IF you hit the dog as it was pooping- just like you treat the dog when it's outside as it's pooping. Once the dog has already pooped, and you drag it back to its poo poo to hit it after the fact, the dog doesn't go "Oh, they're angry that I pooped in the house!" It doesn't make that connection. Instead it goes "ohmygod ohmygod why are they hitting me there's poo poo there they keep pointing at it it smells like my poo poo they're mad because they see my poo poo!!!" and instead of teaching them not to poop inside, it simply teaches them not to poo poo in front of you....which makes house training more difficult, because they stop wanting to go in front of you when they're outside, because then you'll be mad at the poo poo and hit them. Then, when inside, they'll try to hide from you and poo poo in the house where you won't find it for a while, instead of asking to go out- because the dog needing to poo poo means that there will be poo poo and then you will hit them. That's the connection they make. Hitting a dog teaches it nothing when it comes to house training. Grabbing the dog while its making GBS threads, taking it outside, and then rewarding it profusely for going outdoors teaches the dog that "hey, if I poo poo outside, I get rewarded!! I'll do everything I can to get their attention when I need to crap so we can go outside so I'll get treats!" They'll stop wanting to poo poo inside because they'll make the connection that if they wait until they're outdoors, they might get something out of it, while if they just go on the floor, they'll get absolutely nothing but ignored and maybe some dirty looks from you.
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| # ? Nov 05, 2009 21:33 |
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Yikes. First..keep crate training. If you can, try a tether method. Have him on a long leash attached to you at ALL times he is not crated. You can Google for more details about this method but it puts you in full control of him 24/7 so he can't wander unsupervised. It really seems like this dog should NOT be unsupervised at any time until he is older. Also DO NOT allow him to jump, period. Don't encourage "wrestling" either because those nips can easily become one nasty bite even if he doesn't "mean" it and can be a danger as he grows bigger. I don't allow my dog to jump on anyone, period. All it does is encourage the dog to believe they are in control of you and pose a danger of being scratched or pushed over. My friends tried to wrestle my dog when she was younger and it took a LONG time to train her to allow me to sit on the floor and pet her, she thought it was "play time" and her nails hurt a LOT, she almost bit my face too when mouthing at me. It's cute at first but if your dog is going to get as big as you think it is a real hazard. Tell your dad that he needs to stop encouraging the behavior ASAP--when the dog does jump, push him off with a command "NO" or "OFF" and ignore the dog. Don't play with him, don't pet him, ignore him. Once he calms down then you can praise him for being calm but continuing the play with the dog when he jumps just rewards an unwanted behavior. Toys.. rotate the toys. Don't leave all 30 out all the time because he will get bored of them, no matter how many there are, and resume chewing inappropriate things. Put all but 3 or 4 in a chest and rotate those out every week with 3 or 4 new ones. Try interactive toys like those cubes you put treats in that make the dog work for the treats. It'll occupy his mind instead of a simple rope toy or ball. I hear the "Egge" toy is fun because it's an odd shape, same with Kongs which are EXCELLENT for chewers. My dog destroys anything softer than thick rubber so I keep a couple Kongs stuffed with peanut butter, cream cheese, and some hard treats or jerky in the freezer and rotate out when she gets them. She LOVES it. You'll get a lot of excellent advice from PI members, so listen to what they have to say. Also when training use consistency.. if everyone uses a different hand signal or command for one action it will only confuse the dog. I differentiate "down" from "off" with my dog--down means lay down while off means get off the furniture/no jump. When my friends try to say "down" when she attempts to jump on them she just gets confused. Maybe have a quick meeting with your family to just clarify what commands everyone wants to use and what hand signals--I find hand signals help a LOT. My dog can sit, lay down, leave it, go get it, and do a few other things on hand signals alone. Just remember consistency. As said before disciplining the dog AFTER he does something bad won't work. You need to catch him in the act or else you're just confusing the dog. This is why I recommend trying the tether method, the dog cannot be out of your sight and you are in full control so you can catch him in the act versus finding a nasty surprise later. And yeah, don't hit the dog. I use a can filled with pennies to punish my dog and she is TERRIFIED of it. If that doesn't work for your dog dilute a TINY bit of vinegar or lemon juice in a spray bottle and spritz him--just not in the face. Canned air works for other dogs, etc. And definitely PRAISE him when he is good, don't just rely on punishment alone to train him. Even if he just lays down at your feet praise him for it because you want to reward behaviors you like instead of ignoring them. For chewing you may want to try a bitter apple spray on the cords/furniture. Always try to redirect his chewing to another appropriate toy instead of simply punishing him, punishing still leaves him frustrated and wanting to chew, if you offer an alternative he learns what IS appropriate and will stay away from your furniture and carpet. Definitely sounds like he needs more exercise, do you have a park nearby that is enclosed he can run in? I sometimes go to a tennis court and make sure my dog goes to the bathroom before letting her run loose for 30 or so minutes. Use a chance like that to practice off-leash recall and commands while rewarding him with a game of fetch. I didn't read if you had a yard or not but you mentioned he chews the tarps on your outdoor chairs.. when he is outside try to supervise him. Go out there and wear him out with a game of fetch or running with him. Give him a good outdoor toy or two that can occupy his interests, it really does sound like your puppy is just bored with a lot of pent-up energy. Rambling aside, good luck. I recommend you read a few articles or books on dog behavior/psychology and training and share them with your family. It's easy to fall into belief that "oh the dog KNOWS he's being bad" but in reality they usually don't, when they act "guilty" it's usually them responding to YOU in some way--they sense your anger or frustration and become nervous or scared. They don't think "uh-oh I crapped on the carpet 3 hours ago when they weren't home and now they're back they are gonna be SO MAD at me for pooping on the carpet!" I caught myself thinking this a few times when my dog was younger but she isn't going to remember chewing up a cord an hour ago, she simply sensed that I was angry. Get your dog more exercise, some interactive toys that make him WORK for rewards, and try tethering or using the crate more. It really does sound like you CANNOT leave him unsupervised at ALL right now until he learns his boundaries.
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 06:03 |
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Do you let him smoke up with you yet?downthesun posted:We smack him on the snout when he does something bad if we are there at the time of his misbehaving, if not we usually just scold him and show him what he did. The crazy part about it all is that he knows he is being bad and he just continues to be bad. This indicates you have a lot to learn about dogs, so I hope you've stopped that poo poo and are re-calibrating with gusto by now. Do you know anyone with dog training experience that you could talk to? (Who doesn't suck) It helped me a lot with my dog to see a positive reinforcement based trainer in action, even just for one class series. I did a lot of reading, but there's nothing like actually watching it work, and it was really myself I had to educate before I could educate the dog. It was a private trainer I got recommendations for, not a loving petsmart class I didn't trust. Maybe they're ok too though.
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 06:21 |
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One of the best animal-related shows on television is "Its Me or the Dog" on animal planet. Victoria Stillwell is a great trainer, with much more practical advice than Cesar Milan (who you should not be watching, by the way). I think you'd find it really helpful to see how positive reinforcement and consistency can transform how a dog behaves.
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 13:09 |
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MoCookies posted:One of the best animal-related shows on television is "Its Me or the Dog" on animal planet. Victoria Stillwell is a great trainer, with much more practical advice than Cesar Milan (who you should not be watching, by the way). I think you'd find it really helpful to see how positive reinforcement and consistency can transform how a dog behaves. She also has a sexy dominatrix-like aura about her. Victoria is amazing and believes strongly in positive reinforcement based training and is awesome for it.
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 14:07 |
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