Magic protects Iraqis from explosives, contraband ivory

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Magic protects Iraqis from explosives, contraband ivory

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ought ten: Feb 05, 2004

The NY Times has this story about a bomb detector being purchased widely by the Iraqi government. Many have been bought in no-bid contracts at more than three times market value. They are said to be able to detect bombs, guns, ammo, truffles, humans, and the aforementioned ivory at distances, underwater, through walls and so forth. Did I mention they have no power source?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/w.../04sensors.html

quote:

Iraq Swears by Bomb Detector U.S. Sees as Useless

BAGHDAD — Despite major bombings that have rattled the nation, and fears of rising violence as American troops withdraw, Iraq’s security forces have been relying on a device to detect bombs and weapons that the United States military and technical experts say is useless.

The sensor device, known as the ADE 651, from $16,500 to $60,000 each. Iraq has bought more than 1,500 of the devices. The small hand-held wand, with a telescopic antenna on a swivel, is being used at hundreds of checkpoints in Iraq. But the device works “on the same principle as a Ouija board” — the power of suggestion — said a retired United States Air Force officer, Lt. Col. Hal Bidlack, who described the wand as nothing more than an explosives divining rod.

Still, the Iraqi government has purchased more than 1,500 of the devices, known as the ADE 651, at costs from $16,500 to $60,000 each. Nearly every police checkpoint, and many Iraqi military checkpoints, have one of the devices, which are now normally used in place of physical inspections of vehicles.

...

The Iraqis, however, believe passionately in them. “Whether it’s magic or scientific, what I care about is it detects bombs,” said Maj. Gen. Jehad al-Jabiri, head of the Ministry of the Interior’s General Directorate for Combating Explosives.

Dale Murray, head of the National Explosive Engineering Sciences Security Center at Sandia Labs, which does testing for the Department of Defense, said the center had “tested several devices in this category, and none have ever performed better than random chance.”

The Justice Department has warned against buying a variety of products that claim to detect explosives at a distance with a portable device. Normal remote explosives detection machinery, often employed in airports, weighs tons and costs hundreds of thousands of dollars. The ADE 651’s clients are mostly in developing countries; no major country’s military or police force is a customer, according to the manufacturer.

“I don’t care about Sandia or the Department of Justice or any of them,” General Jabiri said. “I know more about this issue than the Americans do. In fact, I know more about bombs than anyone in the world.”

...

Aqeel al-Turaihi, the inspector general for the Ministry of the Interior, reported that the ministry bought 800 of the devices from a company called ATSC (UK) Ltd. for $32 million in 2008, and an unspecified larger quantity for $53 million. Mr. Turaihi said Iraqi officials paid up to $60,000 apiece, when the wands could be purchased for as little as $18,500. He said he had begun an investigation into the no-bid contracts with ATSC.

Jim Mitchell, the head of ATSC, based in London, did not return calls for comment.

The Baghdad Operations Command announced Tuesday that it had purchased an additional 100 detection devices, but General Rowe said five to eight bomb-sniffing dogs could be purchased for $60,000, with provable results.

...

ATSC’s promotional material claims that its device can find guns, ammunition, drugs, truffles, human bodies and even contraband ivory at distances up to a kilometer, underground, through walls, underwater or even from airplanes three miles high. The device works on “electrostatic magnetic ion attraction,” ATSC says.

To detect materials, the operator puts an array of plastic-coated cardboard cards with bar codes into a holder connected to the wand by a cable. “It would be laughable,” Colonel Bidlack said, “except someone down the street from you is counting on this to keep bombs off the streets.”

Proponents of the wand often argue that errors stem from the human operator, who they say must be rested, with a steady pulse and body temperature, before using the device.

Then the operator must walk in place a few moments to “charge” the device, since it has no battery or other power source, and walk with the wand at right angles to the body. If there are explosives or drugs to the operator’s left, the wand is supposed to swivel to the operator’s left and point at them.

If, as often happens, no explosives or weapons are found, the police may blame a false positive on other things found in the car, like perfume, air fresheners or gold fillings in the driver’s teeth.

On Tuesday, a guard and a driver for The New York Times, both licensed to carry firearms, drove through nine police checkpoints that were using the device. None of the checkpoint guards detected the two AK-47 rifles and ammunition inside the vehicle.

During an interview on Tuesday, General Jabiri challenged a Times reporter to test the ADE 651, placing a grenade and a machine pistol in plain view in his office. Despite two attempts, the wand did not detect the weapons when used by the reporter but did so each time it was used by a policeman.

“You need more training,” the general said.

On the one hand, what on earth are these people thinking? On the other hand (and not to sound callous), if they're stupid enough to buy these things I guess that's their choice and they can deal with the consequences. That being said, I feel pretty terrible for the Iraqis whose lives depend on this thing.

# ? Nov 04, 2009 04:47

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# ? Nov 21, 2009 06:54

935: Jul 28, 2006; Title text (optional; no images are allowed, only text)

This reminds me of finding a Y shaped stick and walking around with it, until the bottom points down to detect water underground.

# ? Nov 04, 2009 04:50

An observer: Aug 30, 2008; where the stars are drowning and whales ferry their vast souls through the black and seamless sea

I wonder if it'll protect them from the bears...

# ? Nov 04, 2009 04:53

Robot Lincoln: Feb 26, 2007; That's a shame

935 posted:

This reminds me of finding a Y shaped stick and walking around with it, until the bottom points down to detect water underground.

Yeah, it's a divining rod:

# ? Nov 04, 2009 04:54

TheAmbassador: Nov 21, 2005; #1 SA FORUMS SULKER!

Things that make me a sad panda:
1.) The Man
2.) World History
3.) Meany Rich People
4.) Everything Else

So is this something they are buying, or are we somehow funding it?

# ? Nov 04, 2009 04:54

Mulletstation: May 09, 2004; mo' mullets mo' problems

935 posted:

This reminds me of finding a Y shaped stick and walking around with it, until the bottom points down to detect water underground.

water diving is a scientific fact okay

# ? Nov 04, 2009 04:55

Tallgeese: May 11, 2008

I think the USA is funding UHC in the wrong, WRONG place.

This is, uh... sad. I wonder if that UK company will ever be sued for fraud.

# ? Nov 04, 2009 04:55

michigan jack: Mar 12, 2008

Things aren't really changing all that much there. Saddam had a magic stone that he kept against his skin at all times that protected him from bullets.

(It didn't, however, protect him from ropes.)

Mulletstation posted:

water divining is a scientific fact okay

Oh, please. That's preposterous science fiction mumbo jumbo. This device's detection capabilities actually lie in the prefamulated amulite and electronium micro-coil crystals, which harnesses the power of sunspots to produce detective-radiation which reads out on the retroincabulator.

michigan jack fucked around with this message at Nov 04, 2009 around 05:13

# ? Nov 04, 2009 05:05

The Rage: Jun 28, 2007

So wait, if it didn't work when the reporter used it, and it did when the cop used it, did they just squeeze it differently?

# ? Nov 04, 2009 05:10

SnoPuppy: Jun 15, 2005

you see, I have this rock that keeps tigers away...

# ? Nov 04, 2009 05:12

ought ten: Feb 05, 2004

TheAmbassador posted:

So is this something they are buying, or are we somehow funding it?

The Iraqi government is buying them, but I think I have a pretty good idea of where a lot of their money is coming from.

# ? Nov 04, 2009 05:13

Robot Lincoln: Feb 26, 2007; That's a shame

The Rage posted:

So wait, if it didn't work when the reporter used it, and it did when the cop used it, did they just squeeze it differently?

Divining rods work through the ideomotor effect, which essentially means it's based off of unconscious hand movements. The police officer probably had more luck since they naturally know what to look for. Without human intervention, the system would be non-responsive, and all readings are just a result of random probability.

# ? Nov 04, 2009 05:14

criscodisco: Feb 18, 2004; Every moment of your life is an opportunity for fashion.

The Rage posted:

So wait, if it didn't work when the reporter used it, and it did when the cop used it, did they just squeeze it differently?

I think the rod is just loosie goosie in the device, like a divining rod would be in your hand (think of a long thin "L" with you holding the short part in your hand). So it will swivel on over on minute hand movements, most likely subconscious.

Like Ouija boards or pendulums: it's not always that someone is moving it on purpose, but it just gets moved bit by bit by tiny hand movements.

EDIT: drat it.

# ? Nov 04, 2009 05:15

Earwicker: Jan 06, 2003; and to Babylon the golden.

Divining rods work because some humans have a natural unconscious affinity for water and the subtle, involuntary movements of their hands at the appropriate moments caused by their longing for their elemental mate is the basic drive of the apparatus. These new magickal devices work in the same way - that is, they won't work for everyone, the Iraqi's will have to find soldiers who have natural affinities for the appropriate compounds

# ? Nov 04, 2009 05:19

Magnificent Quiver: May 08, 2003

Mulletstation posted:

water diving is a scientific fact okay

We've devolved to the point where anyone who understands water tables is a shaman

# ? Nov 04, 2009 05:19

Shinobo: Dec 04, 2002

michigan jack posted:

Things aren't really changing all that much there. Saddam had a magic stone that he kept against his skin at all times that protected him from bullets.

(It didn't, however, protect him from ropes.)

Oh, please. That's preposterous science fiction mumbo jumbo. This device's detection capabilities actually lie in the prefamulated amulite and electronium micro-coil crystals, which harnesses the power of sunspots to produce detective-radiation which reads out on the retroincabulator.

Huh. I always thought that the electrons of the plasmatic gas in the sensing rod changed color based on what particular flavor of lepton (each explosive in the world has a different flavor you see) and the color change was then compared to a chart stuck on the side of the device.

Color me surprised.

# ? Nov 04, 2009 05:26

Herr Hands: Apr 05, 2009; Hard times

I expect nothing less from the people that thought Marines took pills to "keep us cold" during the summer.

# ? Nov 04, 2009 05:27

Incidentally: Nov 11, 2005; free yourself, first thing.

Oh god, it's the Quadro Tracker all over again.

# ? Nov 04, 2009 05:37

ought ten: Feb 05, 2004

Incidentally posted:

Oh god, it's the Quadro Tracker all over again.

He was only charging $8,000 for them? Amateur.

# ? Nov 04, 2009 06:01

Pablo Gigante: Apr 16, 2002; Bienvenido a la semana laboral

Earwicker posted:

Divining rods work because some humans have a natural unconscious affinity for water and the subtle, involuntary movements of their hands at the appropriate moments caused by their longing for their elemental mate is the basic drive of the apparatus. These new magickal devices work in the same way - that is, they won't work for everyone, the Iraqi's will have to find soldiers who have natural affinities for the appropriate compounds

So basically the Iraqis need to start hiring Pokemon of different types

# ? Nov 04, 2009 06:16

GWBBQ: Jan 02, 2005

Earwicker posted:

Divining rods work because some humans have a natural unconscious affinity for water and the subtle, involuntary movements of their hands at the appropriate moments caused by their longing for their elemental mate is the basic drive of the apparatus. These new magickal devices work in the same way - that is, they won't work for everyone, the Iraqi's will have to find soldiers who have natural affinities for the appropriate compounds

If you dig far enough anywhere, you'll find water, and when you add in utility connections, you're almost never more than 5-10 feet away from one on a construction site where diviners are employed.

GWBBQ fucked around with this message at Nov 04, 2009 around 17:11

# ? Nov 04, 2009 06:16

Indi86: Mar 06, 2007; The Jive Sucker

Herr Hands posted:

I expect nothing less from the people that thought Marines took pills to "keep us cold" during the summer.

please share this story in greater detail. Were they civilians or soldiers?

# ? Nov 04, 2009 06:23

theg sprank: Feb 03, 2008; pillage your village

Earwicker posted:

Divining rods work because some humans have a natural unconscious affinity for water and the subtle, involuntary movements of their hands at the appropriate moments caused by their longing for their elemental mate is the basic drive of the apparatus. These new magickal devices work in the same way - that is, they won't work for everyone, the Iraqi's will have to find soldiers who have natural affinities for the appropriate compounds

So you're saying middle easterners have a natural affinity for explosives?

# ? Nov 04, 2009 07:04

Urban Renewal: Sep 23, 2008; Everyone gonna lie

Haha those wacky iraqis *bombs country, kills millions over invisible weapons*

# ? Nov 04, 2009 07:25

Wingless: Mar 03, 2009; Gloves: So as not to touch this filthy reality.

SnoPuppy posted:

you see, I have this rock that keeps tigers away...

Uh huh, how does it work?

theg sprank posted:

So you're saying middle easterners have a natural affinity for explosives?

Can a fact be racist?

# ? Nov 04, 2009 07:29

Tin Can Hit Man: Jul 30, 2003; try to catch him if you can

Urban Renewal posted:

Haha those wacky iraqis *bombs country, kills millions over invisible weapons*

If they'd used these before maybe we would have actually found all those WMD's and our bombings would have been vindicated.

# ? Nov 04, 2009 07:49

Vizin: Sep 03, 2007; Eighty-seven.

So $16,000 divining rods are being used as the exclusive method to detect bombs in one of the most frequently bombed countries on Earth? Sweet Christ, that might be the worst thing I've ever heard.

quote:

electrostatic magnetic ion attraction

That is not a thing.

# ? Nov 04, 2009 08:39

M.McFly: Oct 23, 2008

Earwicker posted:

Divining rods work because some humans have a natural unconscious affinity for water and the subtle, involuntary movements of their hands at the appropriate moments caused by their longing for their elemental mate is the basic drive of the apparatus. These new magickal devices work in the same way - that is, they won't work for everyone, the Iraqi's will have to find soldiers who have natural affinities for the appropriate compounds

I can't tell if this is a joke or not?!?

# ? Nov 04, 2009 10:19

Galsia: Oct 20, 2005

SnoPuppy posted:

you see, I have this rock that keeps tigers away...

Lisa, I'd like to buy your rock...

In fact I'd love to make fun of the Iraqis about this but my country has millions of people that believe that the Earth was created in seven days by a big man sitting on a cloud.

Galsia fucked around with this message at Nov 04, 2009 around 10:49

# ? Nov 04, 2009 10:35

Donkeylips: Jul 15, 2002; UP THE PUNX UP THE PUNX UP THE PUNX

Someone needs to issue a John Henry challenge to these guys. Their "best" divining rod dude versus a fully trained bomb sniffing dog.

# ? Nov 04, 2009 10:53

M_E_G. ADI. K: Dec 11, 2006

ATSC’s promotional material posted:

ATSC’s promotional material claims that its device can find guns, ammunition, drugs, truffles, human bodies and even contraband ivory at distances up to a kilometer, underground, through walls, underwater or even from airplanes three miles high. The device works on “electrostatic magnetic ion attraction,” ATSC says.

3 miles is almost 5 kilometers.

# ? Nov 04, 2009 10:59

Corridor: Oct 19, 2006

This reads like WW2 propaganda where you'd read highly encouraging and largely falsified news stories about how retarded the Japs are or how German weapons malfunction or something, that would end with, "If this is the most fearsome foe that Hitler's army has in store, then this reporter doubts we've much to fear from him! Ho ho!"

If this is true then it's all the more

# ? Nov 04, 2009 11:35

Seashell Salesman: Aug 04, 2005; OOOOooOOooOooooOOOO

This is truly, truly bizarre. I haven't been able to get ATSC's website to work but there is material online about the ADE651 which makes this seem like it could be real. On the other hand there is no way anyone in a developing country or otherwise is buying a $18000 radio antenna.

Seashell Salesman fucked around with this message at Nov 04, 2009 around 11:49

# ? Nov 04, 2009 11:47

Holy Cheese: Dec 06, 2006; Yeah.. what?

quote:

General Jabiri said. “I know more about this issue than the Americans do. In fact, I know more about bombs than anyone in the world.”

You know this man talks sense when he blurts something like that out.

# ? Nov 04, 2009 11:47

Propagandalf: Dec 06, 2008; Who am I kidding, I keep Popular Mechanics under my mattress....

I guess it works better if the people they are trying to catch also believe they are real devices, like the old "whomever did crime X/murdered person Y/stole animal Z's hands will turn purple because they were cursed/sick/magic" trick.

# ? Nov 04, 2009 11:48

Shouting Melon: Mar 20, 2009

Corridor posted:

This reads like WW2 propaganda where you'd read highly encouraging and largely falsified news stories about how retarded the Japs are or how German weapons malfunction or something, that would end with, "If this is the most fearsome foe that Hitler's army has in store, then this reporter doubts we've much to fear from him! Ho ho!"

If this is true then it's all the more

You mean, like how British pilots were eating carrots to develop better night vision, that sort of thing?

# ? Nov 04, 2009 11:50

Seashell Salesman: Aug 04, 2005; OOOOooOOooOooooOOOO

Propagandalf posted:

I guess it works better if the people they are trying to catch also believe they are real devices, like the old "whomever did crime X/murdered person Y/stole animal Z's hands will turn purple because they were cursed/sick/magic" trick.

I give them about an eighth of a second before a smuggler/terrorist realizes it doesn't work and the word gets out.

# ? Nov 04, 2009 11:51

Corridor: Oct 19, 2006

Shouting Melon posted:

You mean, like how British pilots were eating carrots to develop better night vision, that sort of thing?

Did that happen? Wouldn't surprise me. Which is why I'm having trouble just disregarding this whole article as dumb rumour, like instinct wants me to.

Propagandalf posted:

I guess it works better if the people they are trying to catch also believe they are real devices, like the old "whomever did crime X/murdered person Y/stole animal Z's hands will turn purple because they were cursed/sick/magic" trick.

I remember reading something about the black death disease causing skin to react with some substance or other that was used to annoint people during blessing or last rites (oil or wine or whatever). So priests would bless dudes and whoa, he's buuuuurning from the holy touch, eeeevil!
Maybe the detection device is so highly advanced that it reacts with genetic material carried by terrorist DNA.

Corridor fucked around with this message at Nov 04, 2009 around 12:14

# ? Nov 04, 2009 12:07

Holy Cheese: Dec 06, 2006; Yeah.. what?

Corridor posted:

Did that happen? Wouldn't surprise me. Which is why I'm having trouble just disregarding this whole article as dumb rumour, like instinct wants me to.

I'm sure I've heard that before too. As we used to do quite a few covert night missions during the second world war. Thank god for radar.

# ? Nov 04, 2009 12:11

Emy: Apr 21, 2009

Vizin posted:

So $16,000 divining rods are being used as the exclusive method to detect bombs in one of the most frequently bombed countries on Earth?

These things have been around for a while (here's a mention of them in SWIFT, from August 2008), so I'm not surprised at all that they've found a fairly big buyer.

edit: It's a different version of the 'device' (561 vs 651). It's just the same scammy poo poo though.

Emy fucked around with this message at Nov 04, 2009 around 12:25

# ? Nov 04, 2009 12:18

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