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So I've got a '98 Mitsubishi Magna. I don't much like it, but the price was right. My other car is an '84 Hilux, which is the best thing ever. Perhaps I'm being picky, but one of the things about the Magna that pisses me off is the key. It's a loving giant, being about six times the thickness of a regular house/Hilux key. It doesn't fit on keychains in pockets very well at all. (Then the door lock remote is even loving bigger. There's no chance in hell I'll ever use that. Are they just for people who keep their keys in their purse or something?) I've heard tales floating around that it's got some sort of security RFID stuff hidden away in it, and thusly the car won't start without it. Is there any truth to this? Can the system be bypassed in some way? Can I just snap the head off and duct tape it to the steering column and use a thin cut key instead? 
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 09:48 |
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| # ? Nov 22, 2009 01:46 |
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Stonefish posted:So I've got a '98 Mitsubishi Magna. I don't much like it, but the price was right. Yes.
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 09:50 |
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RFID is the size of a grain of rice. I'm not buying it. Our cars are now bloated blobs of plastic, it only makes sense that they apply that logic to every part.
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 10:27 |
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What's it take to have one of these keys properly duplicated? I'm guessing the average key cutter isn't going to be able to handle the RFID half.
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 10:55 |
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Stonefish posted:What's it take to have one of these keys properly duplicated? I'm guessing the average key cutter isn't going to be able to handle the RFID half. I've never done it but with my very limited experience working with RFID tags I would guess it would take recording the code sent from the key to the ECU at the moment of ignition, coding that to a RFID tag and then taping that tag to the recicever on the ECU. My mom has a Lexus 350h which comes with a seperate Key + RFID card to use in case you lose your standard key or something. The instructions say that you need to touch the card to the dash at the same time you crank the engine. So you would probably have a one second or so window to record the RFID code and then find a place where the tag could be reliably read.
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 11:14 |
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Stonefish posted:What's it take to have one of these keys properly duplicated? I'm guessing the average key cutter isn't going to be able to handle the RFID half. You contact the dealer who sells your make of car. Also I don't think you'll get a key cut to match the bottom half if that is what you were thinking.
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 11:34 |
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I was thinking of something slightly more proper. I'm guessing Mitsubishi themselves could do it, at a price, and I'm guessing I'd need to send them proof of ownership, four billion points of ID and my colonic map.sacre posted:You contact the dealer who sells your make of car. I remember speaking to the local locksmith once and he said he can do anything "Except those brand new Jaguars" Edit: Yes, I'm taking that with a grain of salt. But still, it's not THAT complex to do the metal. It's just a regular key cut from the middle in, instead of the middle out. and not quite as deep. Stonefish fucked around with this message at Nov 06, 2009 around 11:43 |
| # ? Nov 06, 2009 11:40 |
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On Fords the system is called PATS (Passive Anti Theft System) and how it works is the car is programmed to recognize the chip in the key. The chipped keys are like $35, they cut them for you at the parts counter, and then a tech will do the little ritual to make the car recognize a new key's chip (you can do this yourself if you look it up instead of paying a half hour labor). If it's got too many stored keys already, they have to bust out the laptop and talk to the car's computer and clear the old keys to program in new ones. Standard plain old hunk of metal keys will open the door locks but won't start the engine. Almost everyone says "programming the keys" but it's a misnomer, it's actually the car that's programmed for the new keys. pienipple fucked around with this message at Nov 06, 2009 around 11:44 |
| # ? Nov 06, 2009 11:41 |
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So am I the only person who gets pissed off at this anyway?
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 12:52 |
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Stonefish posted:So am I the only person who gets pissed off at this anyway? I get pissed too. My Mini had a GIANT loving blob of plastic, and it made my keychain feel huge in my pocket because nothing could sit flush against it.
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 13:12 |
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pienipple posted:The chipped keys are like $35 This ain't a Ford. Google is turning up about $150, from several years ago. They're also implying that it's an overnight from Adelaide thing, and Mitsubishi's Adelaide section got closed a while back, if memory serves. Would leaving the tag in range of the sensor 24/7 be bad in any way? Increased battery use or something?
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 13:47 |
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Advent Horizon posted:RFID is the size of a grain of rice. I'm not buying it. Actually the transponders in most keys (especially from the 90's) are about 3mm in diameter and a good 12mm long or more. I've had to dig way too many of them out to cobble together bypasses for remote starts. Stonefish posted:Would leaving the tag in range of the sensor 24/7 be bad in any way? Increased battery use or something? Nah, doesn't hurt anything other than bypassing that part of the security system. Also if you do this you have to be sure to take the transponders out of any other keys for that car so they don't cause problems when used. Plus side is you get to buy $5 keys again. obso fucked around with this message at Nov 06, 2009 around 15:41 |
| # ? Nov 06, 2009 15:38 |
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GTO had the biggest key ever. I like the old GM style keys that you could stick in your wallet.
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 16:13 |
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If it pisses you off that much tape your key under the steering column and just get a small one cut. Just don't get your car stolen.
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 16:18 |
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If your car doesn't have an RFID chip chances are pretty good that you could go to the dealer right now and get a version of the same key made without the plastic part. I know my MR2 has one plastic key, one all metal normal key, and one all metal valet key. I also noticed that under the plastic on my toyota key is metal inside so you might just be able to put that fucker in a vice and go at it with a chisel. Easy way to find out is to try to drive a really small nail or pin through the center of the key and see what happens. Assuming, of course, you don't have RFID. You have to find that out first.
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 16:22 |
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pienipple posted:(you can do this yourself if you look it up instead of paying a half hour labor). Only if you have 2 keys or more though. I think I found out the hard way that the BMW keys that are a remote+key, that used ones won't reprogram. I bought one off ebay, not reading the fine print saying it was used, and it looks like those keys won't program to a new car. I gotta swing next door to the BMW dealer at work to see if it can be programmed.
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 16:25 |
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I've sheared a Ford hexagonal key off before, leaving me with a tiny metal rod 3/16" in diameter and a little over an inch long as my "key". The space saving was cancelled out by needing pliers to turn it.
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 16:26 |
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GM did it right a long time ago in terms of maintaining smaller sized keys. Their VATS system uses a little inline resistor chip in the blade of the key making total dimensions of the key the exact same as a non-antitheft key.
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 17:05 |
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Stonefish posted:This ain't a Ford. Google is turning up about $150, from several years ago. They're also implying that it's an overnight from Adelaide thing, and Mitsubishi's Adelaide section got closed a while back, if memory serves. I know, but I don't know the specifics of Mitsubishi's system. The way it works is similar across most manufacturers. If it bothers you that much secure a pats key under the steering column and you shouldn't have any trouble starting it with a non-pats key. That's how remote start systems work.
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 17:19 |
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Bob Morales posted:GTO had the biggest key ever. I like the old GM style keys that you could stick in your wallet. The new Camaro has the same exact key 
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 17:37 |
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eyeshitinyourserial posted:GM did it right a long time ago in terms of maintaining smaller sized keys. Their VATS system uses a little inline resistor chip in the blade of the key making total dimensions of the key the exact same as a non-antitheft key. Yeah, unfortunately 9 out of 10 of those eventually lose resistance and fail to function. Here's some of mine for comparison. I'd like to see what other people have for massive keys..  I spent way too much time on that. Well yeah, I know that. I know it isn't the fault of the key, but the security module in the car itself that has a tendency to fail, leaving you stranded. | | | V V V
ACEofsnett fucked around with this message at Nov 06, 2009 around 19:35 |
| # ? Nov 06, 2009 17:51 |
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ACEofsnett posted:Yeah, unfortunately 9 out of 10 of those eventually lose resistance and fail to function. Here's some of mine for comparison. I'd like to see what other people have for massive keys.. Resistors don't "lose" resistance. They either work or they burn out. The resistors used in the GM keys are of more than sufficient capacity to handle the loads sent across them. You're more likely to damage the resistor by dropping your keys then you are by using your key to start your car. Edit: just to add that I assumed ACEofsnett knew resistors didn't lose resistance, I was just being douchy. PreacherNutshot fucked around with this message at Nov 11, 2009 around 19:59 |
| # ? Nov 06, 2009 18:59 |
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ozziegt posted:I also noticed that under the plastic on my toyota key is metal inside so you might just be able to put that fucker in a vice and go at it with a chisel. The plastic broke off the top of one of the keys to my '92 F150 once. It had metal inside, but only about 2/3 as big as a normal key head (to leave clearance for the wide oval keyring hole in the plastic shell). I drilled a hole in the top and put it on my keyring.
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 19:01 |
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My 91 Camry had metal, normal sized keys. When I bought my 02 Corolla, they handed me this big plastic thing with a bit of metal poking out of it. I immediately took it to the dealership, and had 3 normal sized spare keys made. I keep one of those keys on my keychain, one in the wallet, and the other sits happily at home with my plastic one as a spare.
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 19:02 |
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Delivery McGee posted:The plastic broke off the top of one of the keys to my '92 F150 once. It had metal inside, but only about 2/3 as big as a normal key head (to leave clearance for the wide oval keyring hole in the plastic shell). I drilled a hole in the top and put it on my keyring. Ahh...my Toyota key actually looks to be a normal shaped key wrapped in plastic...the metal is around the keyring hole as well, which is good, otherwise it probably would have broken years ago.
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 19:04 |
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Our '96 Fairlane has the 'chisel tip' keys with a big chunky top, a separate remote and a separate all metal key for ??? maybe the glovebox. These cars have a body control module that talks to the key and talks to the ECU to say whether the car will start. According to the manual if the body control module fails the car can still be started anyway by leaving the key on for half an hour then starting it. Great security there.
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 23:28 |
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I'll take the bigger key and the PATS system thanks. Although I do have an all-metal key I keep in my wallet in case I lock my keys in my car. Of course I'm not an idiot so I've never done so, so instead I just use the metal key when on trips with my friends. "OH gently caress it won't start and we're 260 miles from Seattle/In middle of the mountains!" hahahahaha
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 23:40 |
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This is actually one of the things I liked about my '66. The key was about the size of a Master lock key. I've never understood people with millions of useless things hanging off their keychains. If you use a purse, fine, I get that. But if you carry keys in your pocket I'd think you'd want the smallest keyring possible. This includes door lock fobs, unless built into the key itself I take them off and leave them at home. Then I curse the manufacturers for not having a keyhole on both sides of the car. The worst one I ever messed with was a Mazda switchblade key. Folded it wasn't too bad, maybe the size of a Zippo. But opened it was drat near four inches long, and it had the annoying habit of popping open in my pocket, often stabbing me in the leg as I walked if it did so in the right position. Horrible.
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| # ? Nov 07, 2009 00:22 |
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EvilDonald posted:This is actually one of the things I liked about my '66. The key was about the size of a Master lock key. I've never understood people with millions of useless things hanging off their keychains. If you use a purse, fine, I get that. But if you carry keys in your pocket I'd think you'd want the smallest keyring possible. This includes door lock fobs, unless built into the key itself I take them off and leave them at home. Then I curse the manufacturers for not having a keyhole on both sides of the car. I have my keyring separated into four separate smaller keyrings. Depending on what I have to do I attach / detach parts of it. Otherwise I have to deal with a lump of metal about the size of an orange. The house keys are the worst offenders though. It's an old house with old keys. One of them is about 4" long and really gets in the way in my pocket, and invariably snags a thread on my shirt or pants.
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| # ? Nov 07, 2009 01:07 |
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I just carry separate keyrings. What's so difficult about that? Now, if you want a 'big freakin' key gripe, here's the inverse, 2008 vs 2000. Check out the banana slug remote control on the right - do not be fooled by the 'bulk' of the two keychains on the left key; they go flat. That drat thing's like carrying your very own rolled up plastic turd at all times.
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| # ? Nov 07, 2009 01:56 |
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Bob Morales posted:GTO had the biggest key ever. I like the old GM style keys that you could stick in your wallet. What the hell is with that? This thing is so God damned big. And you'd think they could stuff a powerful radio in there for keyless entry, but no. Sometimes you have to be right next to the car for it to register. Seriously, I have to put this thing in my desk at work. I can't stand to have it in my pocket all day. HUGE
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| # ? Nov 07, 2009 02:44 |
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ssh posted:I just carry separate keyrings. What's so difficult about that? THIS! This annoys the crap out of me. I don't want the loving buttons on the key. My gf drives a VW with that drat switchblade key, it's loving huge and feels like crap in my pocket. I'll take my bigass Ford PATS key and separate keyfob anyday.
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| # ? Nov 07, 2009 03:09 |
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My old Saturn had a spare key that looked like a credit card. A piece in the center could fold out and was shaped like a key. That thing came in handy a few times when I was in a hurry to leave home and didn't know where I put my keychain.
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| # ? Nov 07, 2009 03:12 |
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pimpedlightsaber posted:THIS! This annoys the crap out of me. I don't want the loving buttons on the key. My gf drives a VW with that drat switchblade key, it's loving huge and feels like crap in my pocket. I'll take my bigass Ford PATS key and separate keyfob anyday. The new Ford IKT keys are worse, they're like the switchblade key/remotes except they don't fold up. They're huge and ridiculous and replacement keys are ~$185 each + programming. Most people opt for the cheaper route of getting seperate keys and remotes, since 2 keys and 2 remotes + programming is cheaper than the cost of an IKT on it's own.
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| # ? Nov 07, 2009 03:30 |
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Old car supremacy.   Edit for content: Whenever I have to borrow my dad's 2004 Ranger, I am also astounded at how much of my pocket those keys take up. I keep two cars' key sets, as well as house keys etc, and the drat key and fob for the Ranger is as big as all of the above.
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| # ? Nov 07, 2009 06:06 |
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gently caress these Mercedes Benz keys. gently caress them so hard. I guess the whole "omg infrared" was cool enough to justify this poo poo.
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| # ? Nov 07, 2009 07:19 |
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Subwooper posted:gently caress these Mercedes Benz keys. gently caress them so hard. They look like mace canisters for some reason...
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| # ? Nov 07, 2009 08:48 |
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Good to know I'm not alone on all this. Will see about getting metal cut on Monday. Can't find a good place to hide the RFID tag though. The plastic is kinda featureless there.
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| # ? Nov 07, 2009 09:47 |
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Stonefish posted:Good to know I'm not alone on all this. Drop the column cover and tape it to the inside...
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| # ? Nov 07, 2009 10:08 |
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Subwooper posted:gently caress these Mercedes Benz keys. gently caress them so hard. If you have keyless go, it's not a big deal. My mother keeps her key in her purse 24/7. I'd rather have one of those then a saab key.  My sister had a '03 9-3. It doesn't have a USB thing on the inside normally but instead a cut key for the doors/trunk. Freakin' Huge.
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| # ? Nov 07, 2009 10:38 |
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