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I'm becoming really sick of working retail, as I know I'm intelligent enough to be working some sort of salaried job but don't have the qualifications, not to mention the money's poo poo. The only way I can foresee myself getting a salaried job is getting lucky finding a job doing clerical work that doesn't have ridiculous requirements, or doing something related to computers. I have some experience doing just about everything required of a job, but I'm not specialized in any one area enough to be able to get a job doing it. I've been thinking some kind of network administration job would be ideal, as every company needs a network admin, and it's not that difficult to understand the material, but there may be easier jobs to get qualified for. Basically I'm open to everything and anything, and I'm willing to put in a lot of work to become qualified. The only thing that will hold me back are expensive certifications, and overly-technical fields, ie. programming (been teaching myself, but I got a long way to go before I can get a job doing it). On a related note, if anybody has a bright idea in general of how to get a salaried job, let me know. I'm in the LA area if that helps.
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 21:31 |
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| # ? Nov 21, 2009 11:34 |
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You have to start out at the helpdesk like everyone else. Do a job search for help desk or desktop support.
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 21:35 |
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Since you work in retail right now, moving to the tech arm of a retail electronics store would be a fitting start. Then try to make a jump to the IT help desk of a big company. People are going to seriously poo poo all over you for thinking that you'll be a good network admin. In the nerd-drenched world of SA, that's like declaring that you're sick of working at McDonalds and would like to star in major motion pictures.
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 21:41 |
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Noni posted:People are going to seriously poo poo all over you for thinking that you'll be a good network admin. In the nerd-drenched world of SA, that's like declaring that you're sick of working at McDonalds and would like to star in major motion pictures. Well those weren't exactly my words, but I did say I was willing to put in the work and time to learn it. I brought it up because it sounded straight-forward enough for me to learn it proficiently.
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 21:51 |
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Also research the company and industry you want to get into. A lot of them are downsizing/outsourcing their own IT nowadays. Before you know it all upper IT management/specialists are IBM/Indus contractors and all help desk/desktop support is outsourced to some local IT recruiter company. I was also offered jobs through recruiters and a month later find those jobs no longer exist. About half the corporations out there you do not want to work in their IT department. The biggest problem since most companies aren't in the IT business they might have no clue how to run their own IT departments. Be prepared to ask a lot of questions about how they run their own IT department otherwise you might wind up being a computer janitor for life.
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 22:43 |
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Noni posted:People are going to seriously poo poo all over you for thinking that you'll be a good network admin. In the nerd-drenched world of SA, that's like declaring that you're sick of working at McDonalds and would like to star in major motion pictures. Absolutely true. The OP sounds quite presumptuous. It's not like getting into IT is easy or free. It takes a lot of boot strapping and investing time into the material, which is usually fueled by self-interest. I would feel sorry for anyone getting into IT that didn't genuinely love it at some level, and the fact that you're not already in it is suspect. But that said, if you really are willing to put in the work, try to get the hook up from someone that's already in the field, specifically desktop support. No way you're a "good network admin" if you're not already in the game. There are varying levels of network administration, like enterprise or jack of all trades for a smaller shop. But somehow I sense you're severely underqualified right now. Noni posted:On a related note, if anybody has a bright idea in general of how to get a salaried job, let me know. This just sounds weird. Work in an office. Do accounting or some poo poo like that. Don't be an artist. Easy?
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| # ? Nov 06, 2009 23:05 |
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Triple Tech posted:Absolutely true. The OP sounds quite presumptuous. It's not like getting into IT is easy or free. It takes a lot of boot strapping and investing time into the material, which is usually fueled by self-interest. I would feel sorry for anyone getting into IT that didn't genuinely love it at some level, and the fact that you're not already in it is suspect. I'm not being presumptuous. I'm willing and able to put the time and effort into learning. I never claimed to be a good admin, as I've never done it before. You're getting the sense I'm under-qualified because I said it in my original post. quote:This just sounds weird. Work in an office. Do accounting or some poo poo like that. Don't be an artist. Easy? Most of these kinds of jobs require a college degree, or ridiculous other requirements. The economy is so lovely right now any and all jobs are so competitive there's no reason to train somebody who hasn't already been doing a similar job for years and years. That being said, I'm still looking anyway. For boot-strapping, what resources should I use to teach myself? Are there good websites to learn various tech-trade skills, or am I better off buying a book?
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| # ? Nov 07, 2009 02:22 |
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TheGopher posted:For boot-strapping, what resources should I use to teach myself? Are there good websites to learn various tech-trade skills, or am I better off buying a book? Triple Tech has it right. Many people who are in the field start because something about it interests them. They don't pick up a book because they need to learn to get a job. They install xyz software and get hands on, consulting different resources as needed. The better ones might eventually pick up some books to supplement their existing knowledge. Think of a project that interests you. It doesn't have to be an original idea: a workout planner, a blogging framework, a calculator, a tic-tac-toe game, whatever. Then pick a technology to use and start realizing it. Eventually, come up with more complicated projects. Projects that will interest potential employers. This accomplishes many things: you gain practical experience, it shows interest and an eagerness to learn, it shows the initiative and dedication to go from start to finish, it makes your resume stand out from the rest, and in the absence of professional projects, it's great to talk about in an interview. skipdogg is also right. Be prepared to start anywhere.
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| # ? Nov 07, 2009 05:59 |
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TheGopher posted:For boot-strapping, what resources should I use to teach myself? Are there good websites to learn various tech-trade skills, or am I better off buying a book? This is a huge question, you really need to learn everything you can, especially the basics of how computers and networks work. I'd recommend, Basic Computer Design (How CPUs and RAM work together, how processors work, etc) Server OS (Windows/Linux/Unix) Networking (Switches, Routers, how they all work together, OSI model, VLANs, subnetting) Web Servers (IIS, Apache) Scripting Language (Perl, Python, VBScript, Power Shell) Mail Servers (Exchange, Sendmail) Database Servers (MySQl, Postgres, MS-SQL, Oracle) Firewalls Get VMWare setup and start throwing virtual networks together with Active Directory, mixed clients, centralized authentication using LDAP, segment networks with VLANs and subnets. You can find plenty of stuff online and just by poking around documentation. If you want to work with computers you have to be willing to put the work in to learn everything you can on your own. You don't want to be one of the idiots in IT who has been working help desk for 10 years and still can't install windows on his own. Read the "poo poo that Pisses You off" and "Dumb poo poo heard at the office/server room" threads in SH/SC to get an idea of what we have to deal with sometimes. Also realize that just because you work with computers does not mean you will make lots of money, you can make good money but you have to know your stuff or get lucky and be the bane of your underling's existence. Side note: What's with all the "How do I get into IT" threads lately, do people think IT is safe from layoffs(Hahahahahahaha... oh god the pain) some how?
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| # ? Nov 07, 2009 06:10 |
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Just for the sake of the general awkwardness of all the IT people I have met over the years I would never want to work a 40-60 hour work week with people like that. For every one that was cool there were 5 that were tools and 3 that didn't know what they were doing. The dude who wore his world of warcraft t-shirt 2 days a week at a place I used to work for was awesome though.
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| # ? Nov 07, 2009 07:00 |
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Beat. posted:Just for the sake of the general awkwardness of all the IT people I have met over the years I would never want to work a 40-60 hour work week with people like that. For every one that was cool there were 5 that were tools and 3 that didn't know what they were doing. I have news for you. There are tools in every department of every business. Some of them dress better and shower more regularly, given!
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| # ? Nov 07, 2009 12:53 |
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Good luck being a good network admin, and not someone who comes into work praying each day nothing goes down.
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| # ? Nov 07, 2009 14:46 |
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Puck42 posted:<snip> good stuff here </snip> I'm only considering IT because I've been evaluating what I have good, marketable skills in, and IT is the field I have the most experience in, but it's not enough. As for the other good stuff, I really appreciate it. All good stuff to learn, and I'll definitely be laying into it. I've taught myself many, many things over the years by experimenting with various programs and pieces of technology, this won't be any different.
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| # ? Nov 07, 2009 18:56 |
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Why not learn how to program? It's always a valuable skill in any market and once you get good at a couple C-syntax languages and OO programming in general you will be able to pick up almost any language in a couple weeks. Many smaller tech companies nowadays don't even care about the programmers they hire having degrees because it doesn't correlate to programming skill and the undergrad CS departments at many schools are a joke nowadays. Also as a programmer you have the option to work for a company or for yourself (iphone apps, independent software, contracting, etc).
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| # ? Nov 07, 2009 19:06 |
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Triple Tech posted:It takes a lot of boot strapping and investing time into the material, which is usually fueled by self-interest. I would feel sorry for anyone getting into IT that didn't genuinely love it at some level, and the fact that you're not already in it is suspect. OP, read this. Then read it again. Then read it one more time, just for safety. IT is not a career you just decide to do 'cause you don't like your current job. You have to have a high level, nay, a GEEK level of interest in everything from point-and-click to MPLS. This is not to say you have to love it all, but you drat sure better have more than a passing interest in high technology.
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| # ? Nov 07, 2009 19:34 |
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TheGopher posted:Most of these kinds of jobs require a college degree, or ridiculous other requirements. Most people who don't have a degree have to take the aforementioned help desk route, and work up from there. This tends to be lower paying and not very satisfying, as I'm sure you know. Unfortunately, regardless of how much you're able to teach yourself, getting an interview will be difficult without either having that piece of paper, or having lots of years of professional experience. Also, I'm on the software development side of things, and it seems to be a more stable career than most IT work. Not in every circumstance of course, but that's just been what I've seen. So if you enjoy programming and are looking for more secure (and often better paying) jobs, I'd keep working on that, and perhaps look into a CS or even MIS program if you have the means. For convenient online bootstrapping, http://www.w3schools.com has some good web-related tutorials. Bob Sacamano fucked around with this message at Nov 07, 2009 around 22:28 |
| # ? Nov 07, 2009 22:17 |
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gnarlyhotep posted:OP, read this. Then read it again. Then read it one more time, just for safety. IT is not a career you just decide to do 'cause you don't like your current job. You have to have a high level, nay, a GEEK level of interest in everything from point-and-click to MPLS. This is not to say you have to love it all, but you drat sure better have more than a passing interest in high technology. You guys make a lot of judgments for not really knowing me. I have a lot of passion for technology, I've never had a lot of opportunity to learn. My computer teacher in high school was an idiot, so there was no chance for me to learn anything worthwhile there. Everything I've taught myself has only been because I had a need to learn it; when you don't know what you need to learn it's pretty hard to teach yourself. This is the reason I made this thread, so people could help me figure it out instead of telling me I'm not of royal blood and thus not fit to do the job. On another note, if I were to enroll in a college level course to learn more, where can I go. I've checked out the computer science/CIS programs at community colleges near me (Santa Monica) and they're all designed to teach people how to use computers or focus entirely on web development. Would like to go into a computer course that's more technical and challenging. Maybe somebody knows a good school that has a ton of online classes? In the mean time, I apprecaite the w3 schools link, definitely will be using that.
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| # ? Nov 07, 2009 23:53 |
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TheGopher posted:You guys make a lot of judgments for not really knowing me. I have a lot of passion for technology, I've never had a lot of opportunity to learn. My computer teacher in high school was an idiot, so there was no chance for me to learn anything worthwhile there. Everything I've taught myself has only been because I had a need to learn it; when you don't know what you need to learn it's pretty hard to teach yourself. This is the reason I made this thread, so people could help me figure it out instead of telling me I'm not of royal blood and thus not fit to do the job. You pretty much won't learn poo poo in school (In regards to IT, CS is different). It's mostly generic topics you learn. Nothing you can't find online for free. You need to setup goals for your self. Setup a web server with virtual hosts and SSL. Setup a Domain Controller and add a client to it. Setup GPOs on the DC to limit the client computer in different ways. Have the web server authenticate users against Active Directory. Learn PHP and create a dynamic web page, have it pull data from a SQL database server. Create a file server in Linux with LVM2 and Software RAID, use Samba to share files. etc..
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| # ? Nov 08, 2009 00:05 |
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TheGopher posted:You guys make a lot of judgments for not really knowing me. I have a lot of passion for technology, I've never had a lot of opportunity to learn. My computer teacher in high school was an idiot, so there was no chance for me to learn anything worthwhile there. Everything I've taught myself has only been because I had a need to learn it; when you don't know what you need to learn it's pretty hard to teach yourself. This is the reason I made this thread, so people could help me figure it out instead of telling me I'm not of royal blood and thus not fit to do the job. When you don't need to learn, you come up with a project and goals so that you need to learn.
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| # ? Nov 08, 2009 00:23 |
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TheGopher posted:You guys make a lot of judgments for not really knowing me. I have a lot of passion for technology, I've never had a lot of opportunity to learn. My computer teacher in high school was an idiot, so there was no chance for me to learn anything worthwhile there. Everything I've taught myself has only been because I had a need to learn it; when you don't know what you need to learn it's pretty hard to teach yourself. This is the reason I made this thread, so people could help me figure it out instead of telling me I'm not of royal blood and thus not fit to do the job.
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| # ? Nov 08, 2009 01:16 |
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Puck42 posted:You pretty much won't learn poo poo in school (In regards to IT, CS is different). It's mostly generic topics you learn. Nothing you can't find online for free. This is probably the best advice you're going to get. If you can't do this, give it up.
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| # ? Nov 08, 2009 01:36 |
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Maybe I missed it, but what can you do right now? What's the most technically advanced thing you know how to do?
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| # ? Nov 08, 2009 02:01 |
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Changing careers is always hard. It requires a lot of work. I was an accountant and switched to IT. I went to school and got a degree and them got an MCSE. Even after that I could not get an interview for any IT job. EXPERIENCE is what everyone wants. They don't want to train...they just want you to hit the ground running. It was difficult for me. I worked part time at the college in order to get some experience. You really need to love IT and people. You have to have as much people skills as computer skills. You have to deal with cranky people. They're computer isn't working right and so they're pissed off. You have to work with these types of people. It is not easy. There can be a lot of stress and you have to react quickly. If I could turn back the clock, I would have gotten a job with USPS or UPS. They make more money, have better benefits, less stress and less education. UPS drivers in Arizona make $75,000. They deliver packages. Go figure! Kevin
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| # ? Nov 09, 2009 18:30 |
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Agree with above entirely. I do a variant of Help Desk still from time to time (I do usage/tech support for CAD software.) in addition to random IT tasks that my boss comes up with or promises his bosses bosses boss or whatever that he can have someone take care of. Personally, I got my current job (Which I love) out of blind luck by knowing someone in the industry, but it was an immediate fit and the large majority of my coworkers are glad to have me here. You really really (really) do need to have titanic amounts of patience to be any good at it though. Over 80% of the calls/tickets I handle have nothing to do with the software itself or the computer the customer is using, but that they are either using it incorrectly (DoinItWrong) or have just become so upset and whipped themselves into such a frenzy that they cannot see through the fog that has risen from the frothy mass of hatred that they are directing at their computer. You have to be capable of taking another human being (I assume they're all people until they prove otherwise. Mostly.) who is foaming-at-the-mouth pissed about something and either distract them with something else until the calm down enough that you can get a straight question out of them that is at least partially answerable, or get them to realize they've gone off the deep end and have them calm themselves down, the second option is rarely going to happen. You have to be able to take a large amount of personal abuse that isnt actually meant for you. You have to be able to shrug off really NASTY insults that are completely baseless and realize that they aren't mad at you, they're mad in general and that under other circumstances they might invite you in and offer to bake you a pie covered in chocolate. Don't get me wrong, if you don't know what you're doing tech-wise then you're screwed, that is immensely important as well. You can google the answers to technical questions though, but you cant google someone into calming down and being rational. (At least I haven't figured out a way to YET.) Ok maybe this answer actually wasn't to the question of HOW to get into IT, but its useful information for someone whose interested in the feild regardless. Also its over 3 paragraphs so i'm not trashing it.
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| # ? Nov 09, 2009 23:16 |
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Puck42 posted:You pretty much won't learn poo poo in school (In regards to IT, CS is different). It's mostly generic topics you learn. Nothing you can't find online for free. This. A thousand times this. No serious company will look at your resume from a totally unrelated field and a few classes from some lovely school and give it more than a passing glance. You may get lucky doing bottom of the barrel helpdesk, and it will take serious time and effort to build up your skills outside of work. After a year or two you may convince someone into giving you a chance at a more critical position. Hope you got friends in high places.
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| # ? Nov 09, 2009 23:54 |
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