Tell me about muslims and cats - The Something Awful Forums

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask / Tell > Tell me about muslims and cats

asbo subject: Jan 22, 2009

As the last thread got binned and I still had a question to ask, I have decided to create my own thread. I have heard that cats had a special place in the prophet Mohammeds heart and decided to investigate further. Googling has informed me of Muezza and Mohammeds love for his cat.

The thing that I want to know about is the Sunni Hadith written by al-Bukhari and if Shia muslims still have the same respect for cats.

In short- tell me about muslims and cats.

Mohammed sounds like a better man than me though, not only this morning did I chuck my cat off my coat before I went to work.

# ? Nov 07, 2009 00:12

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Nov 21, 2009 05:40

visuvius: Sep 24, 2007; sta da moor

asbo subject posted:

As the last thread got binned and I still had a question to ask, I have decided to create my own thread. I have heard that cats had a special place in the prophet Mohammeds heart and decided to investigate further. Googling has informed me of Muezza and Mohammeds love for his cat.

The thing that I want to know about is the Sunni Hadith written by al-Bukhari and if Shia muslims still have the same respect for cats.

In short- tell me about muslims and cats.

Mohammed sounds like a better man than me though, not only this morning did I chuck my cat off my coat before I went to work.

Yes Islam definitely has an old school love of cats, mainly because the prophet had a love of cats. There is one incident where he was relaxing with his companions and a cat had fallen asleep on a part of his robe and he needed to get up for something. Instead of disturbing the cat, he just waited around until it woke by itself. I believe this is one of the examples cited to justify and explain animal rights and proper treatment of animals in Islam. The other thing is that you're not supposed to walk in front of someone when they are praying, but apparently its totally cool if a cat does this or if it just chills out near you while praying.

Finally, the Hadith (the prophets sayings/experiences) were all narrated by his companions. One of his companions was a man named Abd al-Rahman ibn Sakhr Al-Azdi. He had a kitten as a child and loved cats throughout his life and became known to everyone and is now remembered as Abu Hurairah or Father of the Kitten.

A big part of why they are loved in Islam is because of their cleanliness. Islam has a big thing with cleanliness/personal maintenance and since cats are constantly cleaning themselves and tidy poopers, they fit right in within the framework of Islam.

Dogs on the other hand are considered filthy animals. I want a jack russel

Here are some interesting references from a quick google:

With regard to cats not being naajis, this is known from the hadeeth of Kabshah bint Ka’b ibn Maalik, who said that Abu Qutaadah – her husband's father – entered upon her and she poured water for him to do wudoo’, and a cat came to drink from it, so he tipped the vessel for it to drink. Kabshah said: “He saw me looking at him and said, “Do you find it strange, O daughter of my brother?’ I said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “They (cats) are not naajis, rather they are of those who go around amongst you.”’”

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “A woman entered Hell because of a cat which she tied up and did not feed, nor did she let it loose to feed upon the vermin of the earth.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3140; Muslim, 2242).

The great Sahaabi Abu Hurayrah (literally “Father of the Kitten”) was so called because he used to love cats and keep them. He became well known by this name and people forgot his real name, until the scholars disputed concerning his real name and there were nearly thirty different opinions as to what it was. Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr said in al-Istee’aab: “The most correct view is that his name was ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Sakhr but none of them disputed that he was Abu Hurayrah.”

Note: It is permissible to keep cats but it is not permissible to buy or sell them; they may be given as gifts or given away. That is because of the hadeeth of Abu’l-Zubayr who said: “I asked Jaabir about the price of dogs and cats. He said, ‘The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade that.’” (Narrated by Muslim, 1569).

visuvius fucked around with this message at Nov 07, 2009 around 00:29

# ? Nov 07, 2009 00:24

asbo subject: Jan 22, 2009

Get yourself a jack russell, they are so small and yappy it only just gets called a dog. It aint a proper dog. If it can't carry a newspaper in its mouth it has no right to consider itself a dog.

I can only agree with the ban on buying and selling cats. Kittens are given away, nobody in their right mind would ever pay money for a kitten. Paying money for a kitten seems wrong somehow.

asbo subject fucked around with this message at Nov 07, 2009 around 00:44

# ? Nov 07, 2009 00:39

Aerofallosov: Oct 03, 2007; It was so peaceful beneath the glittering stars.

How does Islam look on adopting cats from shelters, since often money is given to pay for vet fees/donate to the shelter, etc?

# ? Nov 07, 2009 21:10

Wez: Jul 08, 2006; not a stupid noob

Aerofallosov posted:

How does Islam look on adopting cats from shelters, since often money is given to pay for vet fees/donate to the shelter, etc?

Not a problem at all. What made you think it might be?

EDIT: Oh I see the hadith now. I've never encountered it before and have never people heard of a ruling that could have been derived from it.

# ? Nov 07, 2009 22:20

Shmee!: Jan 02, 2009

I know jack all about Islam, but I do know that my cat was born in Turkey. There, a tourist easily gets treated as a walking wallet and little else. My treatment was no different from the usual... until they noticed me buying cat food and bringing it to the street cats I had befriended. Suddenly I was a person, not a mark. The cats themselves were ridiculously friendly -cars'd avoid hitting them, restaurants would put out bowls for them, everyone was nice to them. They knew no fear of humans.

The smallest and saddest of the street kittens became my (now obscenely well-fed) cat, and leaving the country with him was a breeze. "Little kitty have passport? Sooo cute! Kitty! Have water, have catfood! Kitty!!!"

On the other hand, in another muslim country I visited, Egypt, they treated cats like so much vermin. I was disappointed, I expected more of the Muezza stuff.

# ? Nov 07, 2009 22:54

Liar: Dec 14, 2003; Smarts > Wisdom

Aerofallosov posted:

How does Islam look on adopting cats from shelters, since often money is given to pay for vet fees/donate to the shelter, etc?

quote:

Note: It is permissible to keep cats but it is not permissible to buy or sell them; they may be given as gifts or given away. That is because of the hadeeth of Abu’l-Zubayr who said: “I asked Jaabir about the price of dogs and cats. He said, ‘The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade that.’” (Narrated by Muslim, 1569).

I'm not Muslim, but you're not really paying for the cat. It's not like they're taking newborns straight from a mother and yelling 'cats for sale'. You're reimbursing the shelter for the cost of feeding, housing, and proving health care for the cat. The adoption fees in most cases barely cover the cost the shelter has put into making that cat healthy enough to move into your home.

# ? Nov 08, 2009 02:37

zakhm-e-dil: Jan 24, 2005; Can't post for 47 minutes!

Aerofallosov posted:

How does Islam look on adopting cats from shelters, since often money is given to pay for vet fees/donate to the shelter, etc?

quote:

Ruling on selling cats
What is the ruling on buying and selling cats?.

Praise be to Allaah.
The majority of scholars are of the view that it is permissible to sell cats, and some are of the view that it is haraam. The latter are of the Zaahiri madhhab and this view was also mentioned in a report from Imam Ahmad (may Allaah have mercy on him). Ibn al-Mundhir also narrated that from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him).

The view that it is haraam to sell cats is the more correct view, because it is proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade that, and there is nothing to suggest the contrary.

Muslim (1569) narrated that Abu’l-Zubayr said: I asked Jaabir about the price of dogs and cats. He said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us not to do that (i.e., sell them).

Abu Dawood (3479) and al-Tirmidhi (1279) narrated that Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade the price of dogs and cats. Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

Some scholars are of the view that these ahaadeeth are da’eef (weak), but their view is to be rejected.

Al-Nawawi said in al-Majmoo’ (9/269): As for what as al-Khattaabi and Ibn al-Mundhir said about the hadeeth being weak, this is a mistake on their part, because the hadeeth in Saheeh Muslim has a saheeh isnaad. End quote.

Al-Shawkaani said in Nayl al-Awtaar (6/227), refuting the majority who interpret the prohibition in the hadeeth as meaning that it is makrooh and that selling cats is not a noble attitude or sign of chivalry: It is obvious that this is understanding the prohibition in a way that is contrary to its true meaning for no reason. End quote.

Al-Bayhaqi said in al-Sunan (6/18), also refuting the majority: Some scholars have interpreted it as referring to cats that are wild and cannot be caught. Some claim that this applied at the beginning of Islam when cats were ruled to be naajis (impure), but when it was ruled that their leftover food and water are taahir (pure), it became permissible to sell them. But there is no clear evidence for either of these two views. End quote.

Ibn al-Qayyim stated that it is definitely haraam to sell them in Zaad al-Ma’aad (5/773) where he said: This was stated in a ruling (fatwa) by Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) and it is the view of Tawoos, Mujaahid, Jaabir ibn Zayd and all the Zaahiri scholars, and it is one of the two views narrated from Ahmad. This is the correct view, because the ahaadeeth which state that are saheeh, and there is no evidence to the contrary, so this is the view that must be adopted. End quote.

Ibn al-Mundhir said: If it is proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade selling them, then such sales are invalid, otherwise they are permissible. End quote from al-Majmoo’, 9/269

And it has been proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade it, as in the hadeeth quoted above from Saheeh Muslim.

And Allaah knows best.

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/69770/cat

Another fatwa on declawing:

quote:

De-clawing a cat so that it won’t do any damage, and neutering/spaying cats
We keep a cat in the house as a family pet. Our question is in regards to nueturing/spaying and declawing of the pet. Is it permissible by Islam to have the claws on the front paws of the animal permanently removed for the purpose of protecting family and furniture from scratches? and is it permissible by Islam to have a surgical proceure done on the animal which will make the pet inable to produce offspring (even though it will stil be able to function sexually just not reproduce)? The vet told us that if we do not have our cat nuetered it is very likely he will begin marking his territory in our home by urinating on furniture and various places within the home.

Praise be to Allaah.
Firstly:

There is nothing wrong – in sha Allaah – with de-clawing a cat, but that is subject to the condition that it should not hurt the animal. There are many medical means nowadays of doing that without causing pain. Causing pain to animals is haraam.

Secondly:

Preventing your cat from reproducing is preventing a natural process that Allaah has created in it. Undoubtedly the rulings on animals are not as serious as in the case of humans, but this does not mean violating the rights of the creation of Allaah.

If this operation will cause harm, or it will cause complications for the cat, then it is not permissible. The prohibition against causing harm is general and includes harm against both humans and animals. There follow some of the ahaadeeth that indicate this:

It was narrated from Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “A woman entered Hell because of a cat which she tied up and did not feed, nor did she allow it to eat of the vermin of the earth.”

The vermin of the earth means mice, etc.

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3140; Muslim, 2242. There is also a similar report from Abu Hurayrah).

It was narrated from Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah that a donkey whose face had been branded passed by the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and he said, “May Allaah curse the one who branded him.”

(Narrated by Muslim, 2217).

The scholars differed concerning the neutering of non-humans:

The Hanafis said that there is nothing wrong with neutering animals, because that benefits both the animals and humans.

The Maalikis said that it is permissible to neuter animals whose meat may be eaten, and it is not makrooh, because that makes the meat better.

The Shaafa’is made a distinction between animals whose meat is eaten and others. They said that it is permissible to neuter animals when they are small if they are animals whose meat is eaten, but it is haraam in other cases. They also stipulated the condition that this neutering should not cause the animal’s death.

As for the Hanbalis, it is permissible in their view to neuter sheep because that makes the meat better, but it was said that it is makrooh in the case of horses etc.

Imam Ahmad said: I do not like for a man to neuter anything, rather that is makrooh because of the prohibition on causing pain to animals.

See al-Majmoo’ 6/155; al-Adab al-Shar’iyyah, 3/144, 145; al-Fataawa al-Hindiyyah, 5/358)

There is also a comment on neutering cats: “If neutering cats will bring some benefit or ward off some harm, then there is nothing wrong with it, as it says in al-Kubra.”

(al-Fawaakih al-Dawaani, 2/346)

Hence we say that if there is some benefit in neutering the cat and if that will not cause its death, then it is permissible.

Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

If there are too many cats and they are a nuisance, and if the operation will not harm them, then there is nothing wrong with it, because this is better than killing them after they have been created. But if the cats are ordinary cats and are not causing a nuisance, perhaps it is better to leave them alone to reproduce.

Fataawa Islamiyyah, 4/448

And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

I'm muslim and getting my first cat in a few months. cant wait!

zakhm-e-dil fucked around with this message at Nov 08, 2009 around 05:51

# ? Nov 08, 2009 05:47

Kenning: Jan 10, 2009; The utmost in taxonomic rigor.

visuvius posted:

Dogs on the other hand are considered filthy animals. I want a jack russel

To be fair that's an ahad hadith and it's not very explicit anyway: "When a dog licks a dish, wash it seven times, one of which must be with clean sand." You could totally get a jack russel as long as you didn't share dishes with it.

# ? Nov 08, 2009 12:19

Rate Thread:

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask / Tell > Tell me about muslims and cats