Dominion Thread: A Cool Game for Cool People [TGD Cool Crew Thread]

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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Games > Traditional Games > Dominion Thread: A Cool Game for Cool People [TGD Cool Crew Thread]

scribe jones: Sep 17, 2008; One of the key problems in the analysis of this puzzling book is to be able to differentiate a real language from meaningless writing.

420 throne room a laboratory errday.

# ? Jan 22, 2010 22:07

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# ? May 24, 2013 04:33

Some Numbers: Sep 28, 2006; When you're a priest, sometimes you've got to raise a little hell.

Cukel posted:

What do you people think of Iron Forge (not sure about the english name)? In any case, it's the 4-cost card that lets you take another 4-cost card with bonuses depending on what type you take. Going Iron Forge-heavy in a game with Great Hall and/or Island is loving sweet, since taking a VP/Action gives you both more cards and actions.

So you spend the first couple of turns gathering Iron Forges, then suddenly get all the Great Halls and Islands in two or three turns before anyone realizes what's happening. Then it's a piece of cake exhausting one more deck and you win before anyone even has a single Province.

The only situation where Iron Forges would suck is if there's no 4-cost +Card, +Action cards available, since then you either poo poo up your deck with too many Action cards, or get Silver and lose out on the +Action.

The card is called Ironworks. My friend went Ironworks into Island in one game. He may have won, but I can't remember. He and I took most of the game that night (there were four of us playing).

Zigmidge posted:

The girl and I were discussing this the other night, we're not huge fans of the 4 card stack. They seem to be a utility category. Whereas most 5 cards anyone can use at any time to their benefit, the 4 deck seems to require specialization.

I take it you've never played Grand Smithy?

# ? Jan 22, 2010 23:30

Poopy Palpy: Jun 10, 2000; Im da fwiggin Poopy Palpy XD

Vyse_23 posted:

I take it you've never played Grand Smithy?

Are you suggesting that Grand Smithy isn't a specialized deck?

# ? Jan 23, 2010 03:59

Some Numbers: Sep 28, 2006; When you're a priest, sometimes you've got to raise a little hell.

Poopy Palpy posted:

Are you suggesting that Grand Smithy isn't a specialized deck?

A fair point. I suppose I just missed his point about specialization. I was more referring to his dislike of 4 cost cards.

Thing is, the more different actions you buy, the more diluted your deck gets. I naturally gravitate towards optimizing my deck by sticking to (mostly) one action. Maybe two.

This is why I think Lab is the best card in the game; it combos so well with more of itself.

# ? Jan 23, 2010 04:59

scribe jones: Sep 17, 2008; One of the key problems in the analysis of this puzzling book is to be able to differentiate a real language from meaningless writing.

yo am I literally Dumb as Hell for liking bureaucrat a lot?

like I know there are better attacks but a guaranteed silver next turn & guaranteed brick in villain's next hand is sort of nice. I dunno!!

# ? Jan 23, 2010 09:40

Poopy Palpy: Jun 10, 2000; Im da fwiggin Poopy Palpy XD

scribe jones posted:

yo am I literally Dumb as Hell for liking bureaucrat a lot?

like I know there are better attacks but a guaranteed silver next turn & guaranteed brick in villain's next hand is sort of nice. I dunno!!

Fun fact: the silver Bureaucrat gains you isn't there to make the card better but to make it worse. Specifically, to to make it really hard to build a deck that can play 3 of them every turn and keep your opponents' estates in their hands for the entire game.

# ? Jan 23, 2010 16:15

Some Numbers: Sep 28, 2006; When you're a priest, sometimes you've got to raise a little hell.

Poopy Palpy posted:

Fun fact: the silver Bureaucrat gains you isn't there to make the card better but to make it worse. Specifically, to to make it really hard to build a deck that can play 3 of them every turn and keep your opponents' estates in their hands for the entire game.

This still ends up happening if you play with a smart group, because two or three people will buy Bureaucrat and they'll start playing them and someone will be caught with two Estates in their hand that will stay there as the others keep playing Bureaucrat and gaining extra Silver and getting farther and farther ahead.

For what it's worth, I'm a fan of Bureaucrat. And I don't like very many attacks.

# ? Jan 23, 2010 18:11

Countblanc: Apr 20, 2005; mumblecrew

I agree with Vyse, Bureaucrat is one of those "not really super damaging but still kinda annoying" attack cards, which are my personal favorite. Spy, Cutpurse, and probably another one or two I can't remember fall into this group as well. I think I like them best because they don't demand having a Reaction card in play to keep the game salvageable like Ghost Ship and friends.

# ? Jan 23, 2010 18:59

Some Numbers: Sep 28, 2006; When you're a priest, sometimes you've got to raise a little hell.

Countblanc posted:

I agree with Vyse, Bureaucrat is one of those "not really super damaging but still kinda annoying" attack cards, which are my personal favorite. Spy, Cutpurse, and probably another one or two I can't remember fall into this group as well. I think I like them best because they don't demand having a Reaction card in play to keep the game salvageable like Ghost Ship and friends.

Also, unlike Thief and Saboteur, which give you no actual benefit, you're not a complete dick for using it. It gives you an advantage and sets them back a little bit, as opposed to actively screwing with them and doing nothing for you.

Swindler, however, can go die in a fire.

# ? Jan 23, 2010 19:54

Luce: Jan 2, 2008; good morning sunshine

Since when does Thief give you no actual benefit?

# ? Jan 23, 2010 21:07

Some Numbers: Sep 28, 2006; When you're a priest, sometimes you've got to raise a little hell.

Luce posted:

Since when does Thief give you no actual benefit?

Well, it can, but more often than not, you hit Coppers, which you have no defensible reason to gain.

Sure, you will occasionally hit a Silver or a Gold, but it's rare.

# ? Jan 23, 2010 21:24

scribe jones: Sep 17, 2008; One of the key problems in the analysis of this puzzling book is to be able to differentiate a real language from meaningless writing.

Vyse_23 posted:

Well, it can, but more often than not, you hit Coppers, which you have no defensible reason to gain.

umm it's called moneylender hello????

# ? Jan 23, 2010 21:33

Locus Cosecant: Jan 12, 2008

scribe jones posted:

umm it's called moneylender hello????

It's actually worth it in a Gardens deck, though.

# ? Jan 23, 2010 21:37

Riidi WW: Sep 16, 2002; by angerbeet

swindler supremacy

# ? Jan 23, 2010 21:42

Some Numbers: Sep 28, 2006; When you're a priest, sometimes you've got to raise a little hell.

scribe jones posted:

umm it's called moneylender hello????

I said - and you bolded - defensible.

Locus Cosecant posted:

It's actually worth it in a Gardens deck, though.

Ok, this I can agree with, but I still wouldn't go Thief/Gardens.

# ? Jan 23, 2010 21:44

scribe jones: Sep 17, 2008; One of the key problems in the analysis of this puzzling book is to be able to differentiate a real language from meaningless writing.

Riidi WW posted:

swindler supremacy

also this.

# ? Jan 23, 2010 21:50

Countblanc: Apr 20, 2005; mumblecrew

Riidi WW posted:

swindler supremacy

the one-armed bandit

# ? Jan 23, 2010 21:50

Some Numbers: Sep 28, 2006; When you're a priest, sometimes you've got to raise a little hell.

Anyone who defends Swindler needs to have their head examined.

Just sayin'

# ? Jan 23, 2010 22:11

Zigmidge: May 12, 2002; "You got to be one of the good guys, cause there's way too many of the bad."

It's like going to a party with a cover charge and the lootbags only come in woodcutter variety.

# ? Jan 23, 2010 22:13

Countblanc: Apr 20, 2005; mumblecrew

Vyse_23 posted:

Anyone who defends Swindler needs to have their head examined.

Just sayin'

But it's Just Fun. Do you hate Fun or something?

# ? Jan 23, 2010 22:14

Some Numbers: Sep 28, 2006; When you're a priest, sometimes you've got to raise a little hell.

Countblanc posted:

But it's Just Fun. Do you hate Fun or something?

Actually, no. I quite enjoy fun. That's exactly why I hate Swindler, because it is literally the antithesis of fun.

Anyone who defends Swindler hates fun. This is not an opinion.

# ? Jan 23, 2010 22:17

Kerison: Apr 9, 2004; by angerbot

Vyse_23 posted:

Anyone who defends Swindler hates fun. This is not an opinion.

# ? Jan 23, 2010 22:18

Zigmidge: May 12, 2002; "You got to be one of the good guys, cause there's way too many of the bad."

Babbies don't like confrontation in an adversarial game. Donald had an expansion that was going to be nothing but attack cards.

THAT would be fun.

# ? Jan 23, 2010 22:26

Countblanc: Apr 20, 2005; mumblecrew

I'd like to quote Locus from a few pages back on why Swindler isn't just a Bad Attack, it's The Worst Attack.

Locus Cosecant posted:

The proper use of Village is to allow you to play the Chancellors your Silvers got Swindled into.

# ? Jan 23, 2010 22:43

Male. Bi. Unix.: Mar 2, 2007

swindler owns. proof via chatlog (from months ago):

-- trenchfoot machte insgesamt 38 Punkte.
-- Riidi machte insgesamt 37 Punkte.
-- Wow, trenchfoot just put it away with 38 points. Impressively. (14:10 min.)
Riidi: WHAST
trenchfoot: WOOT
Riidi: THIS IS HORSESHIT
Riidi: THIS IS HORSESHIT
trenchfoot: #nogod
Riidi zerfaellt zu Staub.

causing ragequits is hilarious and if you don't think so You Just Got Swindled, Bitch

# ? Jan 23, 2010 22:56

Some Numbers: Sep 28, 2006; When you're a priest, sometimes you've got to raise a little hell.

Male. Bi. Unix. posted:

swindler owns. causing ragequits is hilarious and if you don't think so You Just Got Swindled, Bitch

Except that I play with real people at a table and causing people to ragequit in real life means losing a friend.

# ? Jan 23, 2010 23:02

Zigmidge: May 12, 2002; "You got to be one of the good guys, cause there's way too many of the bad."

Vyse_23 posted:

Except that I play with real people at a table and causing people to ragequit in real life means losing a friend.

You play with people who would do this over a card game?

# ? Jan 23, 2010 23:05

Some Numbers: Sep 28, 2006; When you're a priest, sometimes you've got to raise a little hell.

Zigmidge posted:

You play with people who would do this over a card game?

Well, no, but everyone I play with agrees that Swindler is BS and we preemptively ban it because we play Dominion for fun.

# ? Jan 23, 2010 23:19

FirstCongoWar: Aug 21, 2002; It feels so 80's or early 90's to be political.

Swindler is hands down the worst card in the game, sorry swindler fans

# ? Jan 23, 2010 23:52

Luce: Jan 2, 2008; good morning sunshine

Vyse_23 posted:

Ok, this I can agree with, but I still wouldn't go Thief/Gardens.

That's too bad I pulled over 80 points in a game with Thief, Gardens, Workshop, and Throne Room.

# ? Jan 24, 2010 00:33

Some Numbers: Sep 28, 2006; When you're a priest, sometimes you've got to raise a little hell.

Take out Thief and I think you still could have done that. Maybe not 80, but Workshop, Gardens and Throne Room is a perfect storm that doesn't happen very often.

# ? Jan 24, 2010 00:38

Luce: Jan 2, 2008; good morning sunshine

No way. Thief let me add 4+ cards to my hand per turn and bought me a couple extra turns the times I hit Golds.

# ? Jan 24, 2010 00:49

Zigmidge: May 12, 2002; "You got to be one of the good guys, cause there's way too many of the bad."

Vyse_23 posted:

because we play Dominion for fun.

It's cool that you feel some way about a paper card but let's not start this poo poo here.

# ? Jan 24, 2010 01:12

Some Numbers: Sep 28, 2006; When you're a priest, sometimes you've got to raise a little hell.

Luce posted:

No way. Thief let me add 4+ cards to my hand per turn and bought me a couple extra turns the times I hit Golds.

You weren't actually putting the money you Thiefed into your hand, were you? You meant to say "deck," right?

# ? Jan 24, 2010 01:50

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

Countblanc posted:

I agree with Vyse, Bureaucrat is one of those "not really super damaging but still kinda annoying" attack cards, which are my personal favorite. Spy, Cutpurse, and probably another one or two I can't remember fall into this group as well. I think I like them best because they don't demand having a Reaction card in play to keep the game salvageable like Ghost Ship and friends.

neither do most (okay, all, pretty much) attacks? it seems that your criterion is less "needing a reaction card" than "needing to react to the card in any way whatsoever"

Vyse_23 posted:

Also, unlike Thief and Saboteur, which give you no actual benefit, you're not a complete dick for using it. It gives you an advantage and sets them back a little bit, as opposed to actively screwing with them and doing nothing for you.

Swindler, however, can go die in a fire.

anything that you do to help you win is hurting all your opponents and vice versa, that's how zero-sum games work

# ? Jan 24, 2010 02:48

Some Numbers: Sep 28, 2006; When you're a priest, sometimes you've got to raise a little hell.

Jeb Bush 2012 posted:

anything that you do to help you win is hurting all your opponents and vice versa, that's how zero-sum games work

There's a difference between playing Smithy, which just helps you and playing Saboteur, which only screws with your opponents.

One helps you win and does nothing to your opponents. The other makes it harder for them to win and does nothing for you.

# ? Jan 24, 2010 02:58

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

Vyse_23 posted:

There's a difference between playing Smithy, which just helps you and playing Saboteur, which only screws with your opponents.

One helps you win and does nothing to your opponents. The other makes it harder for them to win and does nothing for you.

so do you literally not understand the concept of a zero-sum game or what

exactly one player will win any given game of dominion, therefore making it harder for the other players to win helps you win and vice versa, what about this concept is difficult for you

# ? Jan 24, 2010 03:07

Some Numbers: Sep 28, 2006; When you're a priest, sometimes you've got to raise a little hell.

Jeb Bush 2012 posted:

exactly one player will win any given game of dominion

Not true. It is possible to tie in Dominion, I've done it.

I'm done being pedantic now.

quote:

therefore making it harder for the other players to win helps you win and vice versa, what about this concept is difficult for you

Nothing about the concept is difficult for me. I just disagree with your underlying point. The fact that you can only have one (or two) winner(s) doesn't mean you should go out of your way to make the game unfun for anyone else.

Just because you can play with Swindler doesn't mean you should.

# ? Jan 24, 2010 03:31

Countblanc: Apr 20, 2005; mumblecrew

What he's saying is that Swindler doesn't make the game unfun which is entirely possible for his group.

# ? Jan 24, 2010 03:41

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# ? May 24, 2013 04:33

Luce: Jan 2, 2008; good morning sunshine

Vyse_23 posted:

You weren't actually putting the money you Thiefed into your hand, were you? You meant to say "deck," right?

Yes I meant to say deck.

# ? Jan 24, 2010 03:57

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