|
Really anything that can be said about Roman can be said about anyone with money in any third world country. The thing about people slagging on Roman is that if you put anyone who grew up in a capitalist society in the same position they would have done the exact same thing. You give anyone access to the Kremlin, Yeltsin and some capital they are going to buy all the state property they can just like Roman or any of the other oligarchs did. And then when your bid gets held up because you need to line the pockets of some bureaucrat you are going to do it. Just like everyone else in the rest of the world. I am not going to say its right, but its what happened. It is really easy to get all moralistic when you live in the first world and your only knowledge about these sort of things is what you read in the papers about that new evil owner who is stealing your team's trophies.
|
| # ? Mar 4, 2010 20:25 |
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2013 04:01 |
|
I support my club, I don't support the club's owners. I didn't support the owners even when it was Wardle and the rest of the old regime who were really pretty harmless. I don't like Thaksin and I'm not a huge fan of the Sheikh. However I am a fan of Manchester City.
|
| # ? Mar 4, 2010 20:40 |
|
I agree, as a Millwall fan I am pissed as hell that Roman has come and taken my team's trophies. The only reason why I think exploiting the natural resources of entire region, stealing billions and billions from the people of a country, and living the high life via the help of corrupt friends is wrong is because I didn't manage to do it.
|
| # ? Mar 4, 2010 20:44 |
|
The only way I see Man United or Liverpool digging out from under all this debt is to pen lucrative exclusive foreign TV deals to the detriment of the rest of the league. I mean the Glazers turned a loss on the year Man United won drat near everything with a Tevez-Ronaldo-Rooney lineup which probably put them at the peak of their marketability.
|
| # ? Mar 4, 2010 21:30 |
|
MoPZiG posted:The only way I see Man United or Liverpool digging out from under all this debt is to pen lucrative exclusive foreign TV deals to the detriment of the rest of the league. From what I have been told, Liverpool has a long way to go into developing its foreign market presence as well as Manchester United have. Also, only recently has Liverpool been close to fully realizing their potential as far as sponsorship, licensing and merchandising deals go. The board of that club basically slept during the 90s when smart clubs like Manchester United were pushing their profit potential. It's not totally hopeless for Liverpool, but they are going to have to find a way to stay on the top level of the EPL/CL and keep their best players to see their through this debt mess. Plus, it seems like Hicks & Gillett are in more dire personal financial straits than the Glazers. They're getting hit with debt problems from all of their sports assets and have had to sell interest in MLB and NHL teams. Meanwhile the Glazers are just in austerity mode for the Bucs and the bond issue seems to have gone okay. In contrast, RBS is pushing pretty set, hard targets on Hicks & Gillett. Even if you go by Purslow's account of things, RBS looks pretty open to pushing H&G out in one way or another.
|
| # ? Mar 4, 2010 21:41 |
|
BunnyX posted:I agree, as a Millwall fan I am pissed as hell that Roman has come and taken my team's trophies. As a Millwall fan you are probably just pissed about everything. "exploiting the natural resources of entire region" - wouldn't that be anyone ever who made their money in oil, metals, timber, real estate, etc? "stealing billions and billions from the people of a country" - you could easily include Bill Gates, Carlos Slim, the Walmart family, etc in that group. "living the high life via the help of corrupt friends" - Like I said, corruption and bribes are a way of life in Eastern Europe, Asia, Africa and Latin America. You can be the most upright and moral person there and still need to grease government wheels or have a friend help you out to even open a business. I am not trying to argue that Roman is a saint, but in my mind you cannot judge the man without understanding the situation, and I don't think many of you do.
|
| # ? Mar 4, 2010 21:45 |
|
You guys can whine all you want but I believe we have the most corrupt and biggest stinkyhole owner of them all
|
| # ? Mar 4, 2010 21:47 |
|
GravityDaemon posted:You guys can whine all you want but I believe we have the most corrupt and biggest stinkyhole owner of them all What is AC Milan's debt situation right now? I remember you guys in the Serie A thread were complaining about it for a while, but ever since the EPL took over as football's most notorious debt pit, you guys have been pretty quiet about the financial troubles of the Italian clubs.
|
| # ? Mar 4, 2010 21:48 |
|
GravityDaemon posted:You guys can whine all you want but I believe we have the most corrupt and biggest stinkyhole owner of them all Actually, that's true. At least Abramovic only uses corrupt a corrupt political system, Berlusconi facilitates one.
|
| # ? Mar 4, 2010 21:50 |
|
TyChan posted:What is AC Milan's debt situation right now? Not sure to tell you the truth. It's hard to find current figures, especially after the Kaka sale. I know we have some debt as a club, but a lot of it is actually Berlusconi's personal debt. A few teams have gone totally bust recently, Venezia and Messina in just the last few years. Im sure there are more. We still don't own the San Siro fully, the city of Milan owns a piece of it and so does Inter, so that's something that will need to be fixed down the line. You don't really hear the news talk about the big club's debt until transfer season usually, when there is speculation about why teams are selling/buying certain players. Italy's weird like that.
|
| # ? Mar 4, 2010 21:58 |
|
GravityDaemon posted:You guys can whine all you want but I believe we have the most corrupt and biggest stinkyhole owner of them all I disagree, the dude is a pimp
|
| # ? Mar 4, 2010 22:04 |
|
Galliani does seem to suggest our finances are fine though. Revenue will probably be down this year because the San Siro attendances are down and we've lost all the shirt sales from the likes of Kaka, Maldini, etc. We've got new TV deals coming into place and so on so we should be making up for that.GravityDaemon posted:We still don't own the San Siro fully, the city of Milan owns a piece of it and so does Inter, so that's something that will need to be fixed down the line. What happened to Inter's plans for a new stadium? I remember there was a two year period when Moratti was insisting they were going to get a new stadium based on the Allianz Arena.
|
| # ? Mar 4, 2010 22:05 |
|
Stim posted:What happened to Inter's plans for a new stadium? I remember there was a two year period when Moratti was insisting they were going to get a new stadium based on the Allianz Arena. Not sure, I know they've been wanting to move away for a while. They really are getting the poo poo end of it, to be fair. I imagine with the global financial situation those plans got put on hold. Moratti himself lost a lot of money int he past year or two. calcio posted:I disagree, the dude is a pimp You can almost see the staples in his skull holding the skin on his face back.
|
| # ? Mar 4, 2010 22:07 |
|
So Jim O'Neill (Red Knights frontman) is in some hot water with Goldman Sachs, as he came out and said he wouldn't buy the recent bond offering that GS helped underwrite. If you didn't know, O'Neill is chief economist at GS and through his involvement in Red Knights he's pissing the Glazers off enough that they're threatening ending their relationship with GS. So O'Neill's bosses at GS aren't pleased and will probably make him gently caress off from RK.
|
| # ? Mar 4, 2010 22:17 |
|
TyChan posted:From what I have been told, Liverpool has a long way to go into developing its foreign market presence as well as Manchester United have. Also, only recently has Liverpool been close to fully realizing their potential as far as sponsorship, licensing and merchandising deals go. The board of that club basically slept during the 90s when smart clubs like Manchester United were pushing their profit potential. It's not totally hopeless for Liverpool, but they are going to have to find a way to stay on the top level of the EPL/CL and keep their best players to see their through this debt mess. Liverpools commercial side is actually, really really, strong, we're ahead of Chelsea and Arsenal and only a few million behind United, and thats before our new sponsorship deal comes in. The gold pot of Foreign markets is something thats gone on about all the time, but it's mostly a fallacy. As it stands theres no major money there - thought it will probably come when the premierleague pull their fingers out of their collective arts and sort out internet streaming rights. Check out the Deliotte report for the past year: 3 (2) MANCHESTER UNITED Revenues: 327.0 (from 324.8) Matchday: 127.7 Broadcasting: 117.1 Commercial: 82.2 5 (6) ARSENAL Revenues*: 263.0 (from 264.4) Matchday: 117.5 Broadcasting: 89.0 Commercial: 56.5 (*In million pounds: 224 from 209.3) 6 (5) CHELSEA Revenues: 242.3 (from 268.9) Matchday: 87.4 Broadcasting: 92.9 Commercial: 62.0 7 ( 8 ) LIVERPOOL Revenues: 217.0 (from 207.4) Matchday: 49.9 Broadcasting: 87.6 Commercial 79.5 As for the Yanks, they are on their way out and it's plain to see. Purslow is pretty clearly RBS' man and put their for the exact reason of bringing new money into the club. The summer will be very interesting, and will probably be some pretty big power plays coming through from everyone involved. Purslow is prattling on about investment 'coming' and has been for a long time, yet it never appears. We dont' even have any smoke of it coming either. I can't see anyone sane pumping in £100m to a club thats still debt ridden from a rubbish LBO plan and two owners who hate each other as much as the fans hate them.
|
| # ? Mar 4, 2010 22:26 |
|
Liverpools biggest issue right now is match day income, as is also evident from those numbers. They sort of need a new stadium to fix that though.
|
| # ? Mar 4, 2010 22:51 |
|
MrBling posted:Liverpools biggest issue right now is match day income, as is also evident from those numbers. Which means new owners who can get the credit needed to build it which means better results on the pitch to increase the value of the club which means getting better players which means new owners who can spend money... It's all aggravatingly circular.
|
| # ? Mar 4, 2010 22:54 |
|
willkill4food posted:As a Millwall fan you are probably just pissed about everything. This is the worst kind of poo poo I've ever read. Grow the gently caress up, please.
|
| # ? Mar 4, 2010 22:54 |
|
willkill4food posted:As a Millwall fan you are probably just pissed about everything. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_..._and_wrongdoing wikipedia posted:The Times said that Abramovich "famously emerged triumphant after the “aluminum wars”, in which more than 100 people are believed to have been killed in gangland feuds over control of the lucrative smelters. He avoided the fate of a rival oligarch who annoyed the Kremlin and ended up being transported to jail in Siberia for ten years," and "Numerous officials and executives are said to have lost their lives". http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/ne...icle4272509.ece Shut the gently caress up.
|
| # ? Mar 4, 2010 23:49 |
|
his life is like an awesome movie
|
| # ? Mar 5, 2010 00:14 |
|
jesus willkill4food, at least read about it before you defend it. Berlusconi is the kind of person you're thinking of, shady and sorted himself out with a lot of dodginess in his time but not systematically stealing his countries natural resources and having people killed.
|
| # ? Mar 5, 2010 00:30 |
|
100 people dead is pretty low for a conflict over resources, like 4 million have died in Democratic Republic of congo for the coltan in your cellphone.
|
| # ? Mar 5, 2010 00:32 |
|
Noxville posted:100 people dead is pretty low for a conflict over resources, like 4 million have died in Democratic Republic of congo for the coltan in your cellphone. well that makes it ok then
|
| # ? Mar 5, 2010 00:39 |
|
100 people dead: worth it for a few EPL titles and a shot at the Champion's League? gently caress off.
|
| # ? Mar 5, 2010 00:41 |
|
Not defending him, I think he's a poo poo (as is pretty much anyone with that amount of money). But there are worse shits out there that you haven't spent near as much time getting angry about as Abramovic.
|
| # ? Mar 5, 2010 00:46 |
|
Yes, because they don't own football clubs and this is TRP, not D&D.
|
| # ? Mar 5, 2010 00:47 |
|
Noxville posted:Not defending him, I think he's a poo poo (as is pretty much anyone with that amount of money). But there are worse shits out there that you haven't spent near as much time getting angry about as Abramovic. they don't own teams that are above us in the league
|
| # ? Mar 5, 2010 00:48 |
|
I still think using sovereign fund wealth to buy a foreign football club is worse, to be honest. Maybe we could build a university, or a cutting edge scientific programme that creates new technology and brings investment to Abu Dhabi. Or.... maybe we could spend the wealth of our people on buying Craig Bellamy and Roque Santa Cruz for £50m between them. It's horrendously gaudy and self serving. Yes, the Sultan of Brunei's brother spent the best part of a billion dollars on erotic jewellery, so buying Manchester City is only slightly the worst use of sovereign wealth, but still. Is spending £500m on a football club the best way to promote Abu Dhabi, in all honesty?
|
| # ? Mar 5, 2010 00:52 |
|
Noxville posted:Not defending him, I think he's a poo poo (as is pretty much anyone with that amount of money). But there are worse shits out there that you haven't spent near as much time getting angry about as Abramovic. He is also complicit in the absolute bullshit currently going on in Russia like killing off any reporter with the temerity to say something Putin doesn't like. Oligarchs who don't support Putin end up like Khordorkovsky http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Khodorkovsky In terms of sheer moral bankruptcy I would put most of the Oligarchs ahead of Shinawatra.
|
| # ? Mar 5, 2010 01:49 |
|
Noxville posted:100 people dead is pretty low for a conflict over resources, like 4 million have died in Democratic Republic of congo for the coltan in your cellphone. Coltan supplied from the DRC make up about oh, 5% at MOST of world coltan supplies, the majority of coltan comes from Canada and Australia (you could also dispute the figures of aboriginal tribes that were killed in both nations to your blood coltan), however this is totally not relevant to anything we are particularly discussing with regards to English Football Finances. However on the other hand, with regards to the oligarch situation in Russia. Reminder that when they dissolved the soviet union that they gave all the workers shares in all the industries, however people like Roman however had been made well aware of what was going to happen under Yeltsin in advance and had pooled their money waiting to cash in on all these workers who had shares in these companies but no living wages with which to buy anything with. Most were told to sell them to people like Roman or they wouldn't even have a job any longer, the great majority of the russians did not give up their shares willingly, but more out of the threat that they were going to suffer poverty and/or death if they did not, furthermore it's undocumented how many workers were actually killed or sent to the gulags during the period of Russia's volatile history where all the resources ended up in the hands of a rich elite few instead of still in the hands of all the workers where it was suppose to remain. Of course the Western world could have intervened at any point, perhaps make their currency not worthless, provided aid, investment, but no, it's much easier to allow all the wealth concentrate in a few much more easily influenced individuals. In short, gently caress Roman and every Russian Oligarch who capitalized on the end of Soviet Russia by forcing workers to part with their hard-earned shares so they could retain a means to earn a living. So tally up the whole population of russia to that 100 while you are at it as people who have been oppressed and threatened with death or killed by oligarchs. Anyway this is all loving nonsense, we've had arms dealers, porn kings, oligarchs, oil sheikhs, real estate slumlords etc all own premiership clubs at some point and it's all been through the exploitation of millions of people. The Glazers aren't even any loving better if you investigate how much of their wealth has been generated through the exploitation of american tax-payers and blackmailing them with the threat of moving their franchise to another location. They all need to loving die, plain and simple. Outrespective fucked around with this message at Mar 5, 2010 around 02:30 |
| # ? Mar 5, 2010 02:17 |
|
I mean at the end of the day, you're footy t-shirts are being made in some thailand sweatshop and those footballs you kicked around as a kid were sewn together by a 7 yo in bangladesh.
Football is loving corrupt at every level, let's not just pick on chairmen here.
|
| # ? Mar 5, 2010 02:23 |
|
In short all of football is indefensible in terms of morality.
Even the sunday league poo poo you play with your mates, you're all wearing clobber that makes you as morally bankrupt as stalin, hth.
|
| # ? Mar 5, 2010 02:24 |
|
However if you wanna dispute chairmen on a consequentialist basis rather than your feeble arguments showing you don't even understand enough about morality and what constitutes morally bankrupt, then by all means Gadymak was probably the worst on a consequetialist basis, followed by Mansour then Roman.
In short, Portsmouth had it coming. Edit: Though feel free to switch Mansour and Roman around when Man City surpass Chelsea in terms of global branding and fanbase. Outrespective fucked around with this message at Mar 5, 2010 around 02:34 |
| # ? Mar 5, 2010 02:28 |
|
Adnar posted:Stealing billions of dollars of your own impoverished countrymen is ok? Because of this, Chelsea is my club as Roman bought it partly with my family's money. Chelsea is Russia's collective club.
|
| # ? Mar 5, 2010 04:44 |
|
w00bi posted:Because of this, Chelsea is my club as Roman bought it partly with my family's money. Chelsea is Russia's collective club. :w00bi:
|
| # ? Mar 5, 2010 05:27 |
|
Outrespective posted:In short all of business is indefensible in terms of morality. Fixed that for you. Its everything, not just football (or even sports in general). Shoe companies have all their sweat shops in the far east and most businesses outsource a lot of their technology to countries like India in order to cut costs for cheap labor. Don't single out football like its this evil monster when really any other enterprise in the world is just as bad. It doesn't make it any more defensible but the singling out isn't necessary.
|
| # ? Mar 5, 2010 06:34 |
|
Akileese posted:Fixed that for you. Its everything, not just football (or even sports in general). Shoe companies have all their sweat shops in the far east and most businesses outsource a lot of their technology to countries like India in order to cut costs for cheap labor. Don't single out football like its this evil monster when really any other enterprise in the world is just as bad. Call me when you find a successful football team that doesn't adhere to the principles of exploiting people all over the world. There are plenty of successful businesses that do fair trade, don't use sweatshops, don't outsource, I mean not bountiful, but there are some and they are successful (and eventually get bought out by bigger corporations). I've yet to find a professional football club that can adhere to those sort of principles though and be successful because at the end of the day, everything is ran by FIFA. Even these fan based teams coming up the lower leagues are still at the end of the day kicking about a football made in a sweatshop.
|
| # ? Mar 5, 2010 06:37 |
|
I think the worst thing Joe Lewis has done was that bit of currency speculation back in 92. Of course, while he technically owns Spurs he doesn't really have anything to do with the club and just hangs out in the Bahamas all the time.
|
| # ? Mar 5, 2010 06:45 |
|
calcio posted::w00bi: While it was a joke we really need something for this because of the amount of crap that comes out of w00bi.
|
| # ? Mar 5, 2010 07:48 |
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2013 04:01 |
|
Jose posted:While it was a joke we really need something for this because of the amount of crap that comes out of w00bi.
|
| # ? Mar 5, 2010 08:03 |
























Chiunque può essere Luther Blissett, semplicemente adottando il nome Luther Blissett



