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Total Meatlove
Jan 28, 2007


Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;


Badgerman posted:

It's going to be bizarre if we do go out of business. Not having a club to follow after the circus that has been Portsmouth all of these years is going to be hard to adjust to. I might just follow Newcastle to try and mimic the experience.

But you won't get the experience of not being able to move anywhere in town on a saturday or gunwharf banning people in football tops or watching bitter fat men mumbling about playing harder as they walk back from the pub*.



*Ok the last one but still.

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Byolante
Mar 23, 2008

Have you accepted the loving embrace of Braith?

Team Anasta


ibroxmassive posted:

Man City?

Man City want 4th. They are floating there levelish with liverpool. Liverpool goes up by 6 points if pompey folds. I can see them paying 20m a piece for those 3.

Cuban Chowder Factory
Jun 3, 2002


the silver lining for Pompey supporters would be that they can now completely start from scratch with whatever team they want. even if they pick United or something, can you really ridicule them? they just watched their favourite team cease to exist. you'd have to give them a break...

Total Meatlove
Jan 28, 2007


Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;


Cuban Chowder Factory posted:

the silver lining for Pompey supporters would be that they can now completely start from scratch with whatever team they want. even if they pick United or something, can you really ridicule them? they just watched their favourite team cease to exist. you'd have to give them a break...

They'll start a new team. Moneyfields or AFC Portchester or some other FA Hampshire side that does quite well.

Cuban Chowder Factory
Jun 3, 2002


Byolante posted:

Man City want 4th. They are floating there levelish with liverpool. Liverpool goes up by 6 points if pompey folds. I can see them paying 20m a piece for those 3.

would the revenue gained from Champions League football next year be worth more than giving Pompey money to stay afloat? intriguing options here

Badgerman
Jul 20, 2004
Yus?

ibroxmassive posted:

But you won't get the experience of not being able to move anywhere in town on a saturday or gunwharf banning people in football tops or watching bitter fat men mumbling about playing harder as they walk back from the pub*.



*Ok the last one but still.


I'm rather fortunate in that I no longer live in Portsmouth, but that kind of buggers me over in the event of an AFC Wimbledon scenario. Whilst it would be a laugh for Portsmouth to continue in the 3rd tier of the women's basket-weaving division, it's going to be nigh on impossible to follow the regular goings on.

Hopefully someone makes a film or a book or something about the demise of the club though because it's a cracking story. It's been incredible watching my club die at the hands of Franco-Russian arms dealers, Engish (and Serbian) tax dodgers and possibly the only Arabs about without a penny.

Storrie, Redknapp, Gaydamaks Jr & Snr, Fahim, Faraj, Jacobs, Chanrai etc. have all left us up the duff really.

Total Meatlove
Jan 28, 2007


Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;


Cuban Chowder Factory posted:

would the revenue gained from Champions League football next year be worth more than giving Pompey money to stay afloat? intriguing options here

For a run longer than the group stages? Definitely. You're looking at 100 million Euro for the bigger teams just to get past the group stages I think

JingleBells
Jan 7, 2007

Oh what fun it is to see the Harriers win away!


Cuban Chowder Factory posted:

the silver lining for Pompey supporters would be that they can now completely start from scratch with whatever team they want. even if they pick United or something, can you really ridicule them? they just watched their favourite team cease to exist. you'd have to give them a break...

Nah, they should be forced to support the next nearest team, which I think is Havant and Waterlooville

luvd_
Nov 4, 2006

by T. Finn


ibroxmassive posted:

For a run longer than the group stages? Definitely. You're looking at 100 million Euro for the bigger teams just to get past the group stages I think

It's not even that. If City get fourth they're going to be a nightmare to displace.

Cuban Chowder Factory
Jun 3, 2002


Badgerman posted:

Hopefully someone makes a film or a book or something about the demise of the club though because it's a cracking story. It's been incredible watching my club die at the hands of Franco-Russian arms dealers, Engish (and Serbian) tax dodgers and possibly the only Arabs about without a penny.

find someone in Nigeria who can make the sequel to Chelsea vs Liverpool...

Portsmouth vs HMRC

Stim
Sep 6, 2006

We are not feeling edgy; the system is feeling nervous.


Badgerman posted:

It's been incredible watching my club die at the hands of Franco-Russian arms dealers, Engish (and Serbian) tax dodgers and possibly the only Arabs about without a penny.

Storrie, Redknapp, Gaydamaks Jr & Snr, Fahim, Faraj, Jacobs, Chanrai etc. have all left us up the duff really.

The FA or Premier League (not sure who has the responsibility) really should have sorted it out. I've said it a thousand times in this thread but they basically let you go on owing clubs a club poo poo of money and so on.

Portsmouth could have been put into administration ages ago. It was clear back in 2007/2008 that they were in trouble. Now the club is probably going to cease to exist.

Loving Africa Chaps
Dec 3, 2007

We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.


ibroxmassive posted:

For a run longer than the group stages? Definitely. You're looking at 100 million Euro for the bigger teams just to get past the group stages I think

100 million for the final, knock-outs worth 30-40 depending on the size of the club.

Jollzwhin
Oct 13, 2004

Just like watching Brazil

Byolante posted:

Man City want 4th. They are floating there levelish with liverpool. Liverpool goes up by 6 points if pompey folds. I can see them paying 20m a piece for those 3.

We won't. It's 'when' not 'if' that we make the top 4, our owners aren't fools and we can afford to wait a season or two - sorry Pompey.

Total Meatlove
Jan 28, 2007


Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;


Lyric Proof Vest posted:

100 million for the final, knock-outs worth 30-40 depending on the size of the club.

Definitely more than that I thought? Remember seeing figures of 330,000,000E but that might have been for the pot for group stages onwards. :/

Loving Africa Chaps
Dec 3, 2007

We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.


ibroxmassive posted:

Definitely more than that I thought? Remember seeing figures of 330,000,000E but that might have been for the pot for group stages onwards. :/

nah its not, i'll post the list from my spreadsheet in a second
pre:
PRIZE MONEY
Qualification	 € 2,400,000.00 
Group win	 € 600,000.00 
Group draw	 € 300,000.00 
Knockout	 € 2,200,000.00 
Quarter-final	 € 2,500,000.00 
Semi-final	 € 3,000,000.00 
Runner up	 € 4,000,000.00 
Winner  	 € 7,000,000.00 

With TV, gates etc.
Total for reaching knockout € 38,450,000.00 - € 42,000,000.00
Potential total revenue for finalist	 € 110,350,000.00 
Utd actually made more from the CL last year then Barcelona

Loving Africa Chaps fucked around with this message at Feb 18, 2010 around 19:45

Vando
Oct 26, 2007

I want to be one of
those madmen


peanut- posted:

While it's good that he saved the team, the fact that this guy bought the club and then found out about the state of its books afterwards says a lot about how many clubs have ended up the way they are.

This is also what happened to Ebbsfleet, though not to this extent.

Badgerman
Jul 20, 2004
Yus?

Christ, I've done my best to avoid stories on our financial crisis but listening to this 5live forum is just a loving train wreck. Local businesses that have done work for the club haven't been paid and they're having to take legal action, at which point the club hastily work out a monthly payment schedule only to fob them off after 1 payment.

And Sol Campbell, what a charitable guy. Fair play, what with him being offered daft money, but the idea that he will be one of the first to be paid if the club does get liquidated is beyond depressing.

And Azougy... a convicted fraudstar who was in control of our finances for a few months last year. I've got no idea how I glossed over him.

It's just really loving sad at the end of the day. We buy half of Spurs, sell them all back (as well as a few others) and we still end up owing them money. Complete loving incompetence people at every level of the club except for probably Avram Grant.

Hooray, it's over. Hopefully we're laid to rest soon as we've now had a year of this nonsense and we all know that there's not going to be a happy ending.

Badgerman fucked around with this message at Feb 18, 2010 around 20:05

Bacon of the Sea
Oct 16, 2008

Dog Suicide Bridge BBQ Team 2k10


The other thing is that players which leave on a free transfer outside a window can't sign again till the next window. The only way they're nerfing his wages it to get him to agree to a reduction.

Butterfly Valley
Apr 19, 2007

Not in it for the money


Badgerman posted:



Sorry man, not much more to say, must be a really poo poo feeling

serious gaylord
Sep 16, 2007


SA's 2014 Miniature Painter of the Year


I thought that they are looking at criminal proceedings for the previous Notts County owners based on this mystery debt, which would seem to me like they hid it from this persons financial investigators.

Still though, says a lot about the fit and proper test and all that.

Jose
Jul 24, 2007



Bhyo posted:

I thought that they are looking at criminal proceedings for the previous Notts County owners based on this mystery debt, which would seem to me like they hid it from this persons financial investigators.

Still though, says a lot about the fit and proper test and all that.

Apparently the FA and PL have different rules on this too.

Akileese
Feb 6, 2005



Hell 50 posts since my lunch break at 130...I thought Pompey finally went into administration or worse. Seems we're merely talking about how hosed Notts County is.

Rawz
Aug 21, 2009


I'm going to Fratton to watch the stoke game on saturday, maybe the last game I get to see there? Who knows.

gently caress it I live in surrey now I'll just go with the trend and support a london club, i'll take fulham. Mainly because of Roy Hodgson. I do love that man, and I don't hate fulham. I'd take Cardiff because I used to live there for 3 years and watched many home games at their old ground but they're too welsh and have the same lovely predicament.

I hope an example is made from Portsmouth if we do go into liquidation that this doesn't have to happen to any other club with the same sort of fan base, shocking. But it does seem worrying that we're only the tip of the iceberg.

Cuban Chowder Factory
Jun 3, 2002


Rawz posted:

I hope an example is made from Portsmouth if we do go into liquidation that this doesn't have to happen to any other club with the same sort of fan base, shocking. But it does seem worrying that we're only the tip of the iceberg.

the sad thing is that we could possibly even see a BIGGER example of it with United in 2-5 years.

Mickolution
Oct 1, 2005

Ballers...I put numbers on the boards

Cuban Chowder Factory posted:

the sad thing is that we could possibly even see a BIGGER example of it with United in 2-5 years.

Sad?

Eric Cantonese
Dec 21, 2004



Chicks dig me because
I rarely wear underwear.
And when I do, it's usually
something unusual.


Mickolution posted:

Sad?

As Liverpool fans, we're not entitled to gloat at all.

Mickolution
Oct 1, 2005

Ballers...I put numbers on the boards

TyChan posted:

As Liverpool fans, we're not entitled to gloat at all.

It's not gloating. I just wouldn't be sad if United went out of business.

Ghost Cow Goes Boo
Oct 23, 2008


I can't fight my desires.


I don't think United are in as much danger as everyone suggests. So they owe £700m, but if things really poo poo the bed they could probably pay a decent chunk of that off just by selling Rooney to Real or City, as Real like to throw money around for fun and you can't convince me that City's owners wouldn't pay £100m to say they're the daddy of Manchester. After that they could probably make £200-300m back just by licensing the brand; I'm sure some MLS team would cough up a pretty penny to be Manchester United USA, then there's Manchester United Japan, Manchester United Beijing and so on...

Basically what I'm saying is that in the event of a huge financial crisis United should sell out like an old rocker. It wouldn't completely solve the debt but it would very quickly make it viable again. The problem with Pompey is they never had anything to sell.

Craiglen
Sep 2, 2006

Show me on the doll where Thierry Henry touched you...


The Glazers should go for a leveraged buyout of a club like, say, oh, I don't know, Arsenal for instance, then milk them dry and use all their money to pay off the United debts. Or something.

Adnar
Jul 11, 2002



At least Pompey already have a suitable stadium for the Unibond league

Scikar
Nov 20, 2005

5? Seriously?


Notts County, Portsmouth, United and Liverpool have all been let down by the fit and proper test really. Any American LBO asset whore coming in to buy a football team using none of their own money and solely for the purpose of selling it on at a profit later should be told to get hosed, and anyone claiming to be investing huge amounts of money into a club with no proof that said money even exists should also be told to get hosed. Parasites like that shouldn't be allowed anywhere near football, no fans (even Leeds) deserve to have their club cease to exist from under their feet because of dickheads playing monopoly. I can't say I was sad when Leeds went bust and I wouldn't expect a Liverpool fan to be if we did, I do think we can all agree though that football would be better without that spectre hanging over anyone.

In fact what really pisses me off above all else about the Glazer takeover is that the only reason their plan had any chance of working was because they believed that the club was an undervalued asset, and therefore easy to sell on at a profit. It's only when they came to actually buy it that they discovered a decent proportion of the shareholders had not undervalued it, and the resulting last minute loans they had to take out are the ones causing the financial damage. It just makes the whole thing laughably pointless. What are they expecting from us now, that we'll somehow with both the league and the CL for the next 3 years running to wipe out "their" debt?

At the end of the day though you're right, United aren't in danger of ceasing to exist as a club. There's a lot more wealthy supporters who would be in a position to take the club over, there's a much bigger profit machine to make the loans manageable once they drop to a decent level, and there's plenty of high value assets that can be sold off if necessary, but since they're backed up by the high revenue the club has they won't need to be sold at bargain bin prices in a firesale.

Fat Turkey
Aug 1, 2004

Gobble Gobble Gobble!


Scikar posted:

Notts County, Portsmouth, United and Liverpool have all been let down by the fit and proper test really. Any American LBO asset whore coming in to buy a football team using none of their own money and solely for the purpose of selling it on at a profit later should be told to get hosed...

You can't have your cake and eat it (unless it is a sugar-daddy flavoured cake).

You can't expect the huge riches, foreign stars, international teams with £30m players on the bench and international market income (ie the advantages of inviting big business into football), without expecting that the club has so much scope for increase in value and money-making that people will come in and use it to make money like all companies, which leads to risk-taking and money thrown around to tread water (ie the disadvantages of inviting big business in football). Football is now a business and there's no reason it shouldn't be treated like a business, even if you really don't want it to.

Scikar
Nov 20, 2005

5? Seriously?


Fat Turkey posted:

You can't have your cake and eat it (unless it is a sugar-daddy flavoured cake).

You can't expect the huge riches, foreign stars, international teams with £30m players on the bench and international market income (ie the advantages of inviting big business into football), without expecting that the club has so much scope for increase in value and money-making that people will come in and use it to make money like all companies, which leads to risk-taking and money thrown around to tread water (ie the disadvantages of inviting big business in football). Football is now a business and there's no reason it shouldn't be treated like a business, even if you really don't want it to.

I've said before (and admitted that it's much easier to say when you're in United's position) that I would happily trade the huge riches and super stars for stable football. I can understand the sport, i.e. the TV rights and so on, being treated as a business, but there's two very good reasons the teams themselves should not be. Firstly, they're not businesses, they're clubs. The majority of fans do not behave as rational actors when choosing a club to support, tickets to purchase or replica kits to buy. Secondly, the acceptance of treating clubs as a business requires accepting the fact that unsuccessful business go bust. Football clubs shouldn't go bust.

Kwik
Apr 4, 2006

You can't touch our beaver.


In other broke football club news, Chester City are *this* close to being thrown out of the Conference, after the Football Conference Board basically said that they're beyond saving, and have recommended that they be chucked out.

Being utterly and totally broke, they actually had their first 2 matches postponed until they convinced the powers-that-be that they'd remain financially solvent and able to fulfill all scheduled fixtures. Duly slapped with a 25-point penalty, they started play on -25, and since then have managed to scramble to -3 points, 31 points out of safety. They also had one home match called off when the police refused to provide service for the match due to nonpayment, and then had an away match called off when players refused to make the trip because THEY hadn't yet been paid. Officially, Chester are suspended, and all their matches are currently postponed. Basically, what's really happening is a temporary stay of execution while the Conference decides what to do about their results, and how a 23-team league will work for the remainder of the season, and then they'll be tossed out.

Brimmy
Jan 13, 2006

"Never gonna give it up, Adrian."


If you have a -25 point penalty before the season begins what's the point in competing unless you have a squad capable of finishing in the top 2 of the league or so and know that you can turn the point difference around?

Cuban Chowder Factory
Jun 3, 2002


Mickolution posted:

Sad?

i really dislike United as much as the next person who's once lived in London but there are better ways to see them fail. like making GBS threads the bed on the pitch.

if we all took pleasure in seeing our rivals commit financial suicide then yall should be extremely pissed that Spurs have kept their books well in order.

Loving Africa Chaps
Dec 3, 2007

We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.


Craiglen posted:

The Glazers should go for a leveraged buyout of a club like, say, oh, I don't know, Arsenal for instance, then milk them dry and use all their money to pay off the United debts. Or something.

Yes, because a leveraged buyout has allowed Utd to maintain a healthy profit all this time and paying off one set of debts magically makes the other disappear.

edit: the fit and proper test hasn't failed utd as the owners had loads of money and several sports teams, they just didn't spend it on you. Liverpool probably were due to previous with corinthians.

Loving Africa Chaps fucked around with this message at Feb 19, 2010 around 08:25

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents


Even as a United fan I don't want to see Liverpool cease to exist due to financial reasons. Not that it'll happen of course, but I don't understand why people would want rival clubs to implode for reasons off the pitch. I'd like to see Steven Gerrard score ninety own goals with his left knee and then get red carded for diving, but there's not much joy to be had from lovely owners loving up a club, even if they are your rivals.

Dudley
Feb 24, 2003

Tasty

The Mash posted:

Even as a United fan I don't want to see Liverpool cease to exist due to financial reasons. Not that it'll happen of course, but I don't understand why people would want rival clubs to implode for reasons off the pitch. I'd like to see Steven Gerrard score ninety own goals with his left knee and then get red carded for diving, but there's not much joy to be had from lovely owners loving up a club, even if they are your rivals.

And besides, football without the rivals would be pretty empty.

"Stand up... if you hate Havent and Waterlooville" just doesn't have the same ring.

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FullLeatherJacket
Dec 30, 2004
Chiunque può essere Luther Blissett, semplicemente adottando il nome Luther Blissett



Again, the Fit And Proper Persons test isn't a job interview. You don't get a questionnaire as to whether or not you like kittens and whether or not you like to expose yourself in public. You don't have to prove that you have money or that you're not mentally ill.

It's a test of very specific things, as to whether or not you have a history of financial irregularities. LivYanks and ManYanks have a lot of money between them. They aren't bankrupts or convicted fraudsters. Yet.

The only team that's really been let down in this is Notts County, where again it appears to be a series of shell companies representing a convicted fraudster, and with said companies offering worthless shareholdings in order to attract interest from people like Eriksson. The problem was that the FA had to chase an endless paper trail. It seemed to come out at the time because of a similar situation where they tried to buy Sauber F1, and they actually checked the poo poo before selling.

Now, I've watched enough episodes of Hustle to know how to play the long con, and also to draw Jaime Murray from memory. I even remember the ones where the victims weren't horrible caricatures of Russ. But I can't actually figure out what they were aiming to accomplish. There's only so long you can go without paying people money. If they buy it for £1, and then sell it on, perhaps, but that seems a rather flimsy premise.

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