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With all the accountant chat that crops up in the main thread i thought it's high time we had a place to properly discuss the finances of football. Increasingly in the english game it is the clubs financial performance that dictates where it is likely to end up in the table. With new stadiums on the cards for several clubs and administration looming for others lets looks at a summary of the current Premier league. Arsenal Revenue: £313.3m Pre-tax profit : £45.5m Debt: £318m Notes: - Revenue boosted by £80m generated by sales of flats in highbury square - Wage bill continues to rise - Possible takeover may lead to increase in debt Aston Villa Revenue: £75.5m Pre-tax profit: -£0.8m Debt: 0? Notes: - Good potential for growth if they claim 4th spot this year Birmingham Blackburn Bolton Burnley Chelsea Revenue: £206.4m Pre-tax profit: -£44.4m Debt: 0? Notes: - Huge wage bill - Will plantini except they are debt free? - Abramovich still vital to their running Everton Fulham Hull Liverpool Revenue: £161m Pre-tax profit: -£42.6m Debt: £359m Notes: - Owners unwilling to invest - New stadium will increase club debts - Each renegotiation of loans pushes interest payments upwards - Possibly no champions league next year Man City Man Utd Revenue: £256.2m Pre-tax profit: -£44.8m Debt: £649.4m Notes: - Absolutely eye-watering debt with interest payments to match - Losses bound to effect transfer budget soon Portsmouth Revenue: £70.5m Pre-tax profit: -£16.9m Debt: £80m Notes: - Ownership farce means they have several people who own areas key to the club and no one who can put cash into the club, probably the only thing that can stop fratton park being turned into flats - Relegation to championship is almost certain to seal its fate - Court hearing in February to determine if it should be declared bankrupt Stoke Sunderland Spurs Revenue: £114.9m Pre-tax profit: £39.8m Debt: £0 Notes: - currently in great financial health without Champions league football - new stadium will saddle club with large debt and possibly wipe out profits West Ham Wigan Wolves It's going to be very interesting in the next few years to see how this all plays out. As much as we Arsenal fans like to be smug, the revenue from highbury square is going to dry up this year and we'll not be as well off as before. Tottenham look in a great position but if they are saddled with 300million of debt from a stadium and miss out on the champions league it could get messy. Liverpool fans better pray that any new stadium is paid for in cash as an extra £300million of debt will cripple the club even more. The sheer size of Utd's debt means they would stand no chance of reducing it in time to avoid punishment from plantini if he gets what he wants. One thing is clear, the troubles of clubs bought in highly leveraged deals mean we are unlikely to see it again. It has crippled two big clubs and is likely to bankrupt two others. Anything people want me to add to the OP i will.
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Dec 30, 2009 20:14
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Pissflaps posted:the cost of pies at each top flight ground ill do it for the emirates after the next home game, everyone else can supply the rest
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Dec 30, 2009 20:16
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dkj posted:They borrowed the money to take over the club and thats now the clubs debt? Its just like a mortgage. You borrow money against its value in order to buy it but in this case instead of your income paying off the debt its the house.
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Dec 31, 2009 12:16
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Zero Star posted:This will probably sound stupid, but what happens if Portsmouth are made bankrupt? Will they have to resign from the league and start again at the bottom, the way Accrington Stanley and Aldershot did? And if so, how will it affect the way teams get promoted into the Premiership? Not sure, I think because they owe money to the taxman and there isn't a holding company as far as im aware portsmouth will cease to exist so a new team will have to form and play somewhere else then fratton park. I think it will mean one more promotion into the championship and the leagues below.
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Dec 31, 2009 16:09
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Jollzwhin posted:Depends whether they can hang on and go into administration or whether the winding-up order succeeds I believe. Haven't posted about City here yet because I don't have details about our most recent finances but I'll make an effort post when I find it. please do, i still don't understand exactly how your owners are funding you and how it differs to chelsea's situation.
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Dec 31, 2009 16:19
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Outrespective posted:I think it's mainly there to stop someone like Mugabe coming in and buying Bolton. Mugabe would do much much better then a lot of owners. He'd put half the gdp of the country into the club to boost his ego
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Dec 31, 2009 20:03
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FullLeatherJacket posted:
I believe this was the case shortly after buying the club but i think the glazers have now transferred the vast majority of that to the club. Oceanbound posted:I don't know where the OP is getting the "Spurs have no debt" line from. David Conn's EPL debt report from June says that Spurs have £65m debt. Forbes' latest soccer team valuations report have Spurs at 29% debt/value, which according to their valuation of the team puts their debt at £90m. One would have to assume that's only to get worse with the burden of a new stadium and a free-spending Redknapp at the helm. Thanks for the link, i'll update everything in a bit.
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Jan 1, 2010 12:10
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Glazers trying to sort out the debt. Interest payments were £69 million last year, insane. http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/leisure/article6973929.ece
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Jan 3, 2010 14:11
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Seksiness posted:Planning permission fr the land is tied to the clubs development. Essentially the club would have to cease to exist before that land can be used for flats. it will if their property developer owner doesn't put more money in
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Jan 5, 2010 15:51
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Dudley posted:Interesting. Also debatably legal. It's still money Portsmouth are contractually owned, I'm not sure the PL can legally change the order Portsmouth's creditors get money. its in the contract that the PL can do this
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Jan 5, 2010 16:10
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jan/06/sheikh-mansour-manchester-city-investment looks like citys situation is exactly like chelseas after all, owners huge loans being cancelled/converted to shares.
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Jan 6, 2010 02:55
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Went poking around to have a look at how much the Fa cup and The champions league are worth to clubs financially. Especially given United's figures which are absolutely terrifying for any fan of theirs.FAcup prize money posted:3rd round_____£27,000 This doesn't include tv and radio money as i could only find it of the first 4 rounds (£160k for 3+4, £260k 5+6) or ticket revenue but small clubs can clear £1,000,000 for a 3rd round tie against one of the top four clubs. Now onto the big one, The Champions league. I was pretty stunned when i found out just how much money this is worth, no wonder clubs gamble their existence on making it there. Champions League posted:Qualification______£2,136,000
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Jan 12, 2010 11:39
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MoPZiG posted:Would the top clubs really revolt if the FA cup winner was given an automatic champions league berth? All that effort for £2 million is ridiculous frankly. Yeah they would because at the moment qualification is judged over a full season and not a cup setting where you can have a bad day, part of the reason i was so annoyed everton didn't get CL football. The £2 million is prize money though, the total for prize money from each stage plus TV money would make it several times higher.
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Jan 12, 2010 11:56
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If anyone thinks some oil baron is going to take over utd you are having a laugh. The price the glazers will want, coupled with the debt means its a far far cheaper prospect to take over a club that's potentially going to challenge for the top four, buy a new squad and a stadium if they need it. Realisticly the prime target in the premiership is spurs due to the plans for a stadium, uefa football and relatively high profile of the club.
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Jan 12, 2010 15:16
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Bovine Delight posted:Nah, we're going to get some cash strapped fucker who can barely afford the club, let alone a transfer budget. I don't think you quite understand. The glazers could give the supporters club utd and utd would still have to win the treble every year to keep losses under £33 million. Its some lunatic baron who wants to own utd and no other team or administration in 10 years.
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Jan 12, 2010 15:39
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MoPZiG posted:Not an oil baron perhaps but certainly a Southeast Asian billionaire (of which there will soon be many) would take a punt on owning United to improve their standing and prestige in their part of the world particularly. Yes but they are going to have to be willing to throw away the lions share of a billion pounds and it's going to have to be cash.
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Jan 12, 2010 16:22
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lewi posted:Unfortunately Pompey got through to the next round of the FA cup. I was hoping that they would run out of prize money sooner rather than later... its not like they are going to see a penny of it but yes, i'm hoping they go bust before they get relegated to try and bring some sense to the league.
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Jan 13, 2010 00:37
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rocket_Magnet posted:So let me get this straight, they're refinancing the club so they can get money out of it so that they can pay off debts on the loan they took out to buy the club. Resulting in increased debts to the club as a direct result of the glazer take over? Yes, what they will say is they are increasing debt but reducing the high interest loans in order to make the club more stable. Really they are saddling the club with more debt whilst reducing their own liability as up to now if the club went belly up they would be £200 million in the red, once that's gone they can start really having fun with the club.
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Jan 13, 2010 18:20
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Dudley posted:Portsmouth are hosed. To be honest i hope they go into administration while in the premier league, if they do then hopefully it prevents many more fans from seeing their club crumble because of finances rather then football. If they stave it off till they get relegated i doubt anyone would learn a lesson. Also http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/w/west_ham_utd/8468159.stm West Hame apparently owed over twice as much as their owners declared when it was put up for sale. Looks like the new owners don't care about sinking money into it though so the fans can probably sleep easier knowing administration is a little further off.
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Jan 19, 2010 17:20
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Even sol is getting his boot in http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/p/portsmouth/8469950.stm suing pompey for £1.7million also bbc news ticker just said Utd debt has risen to £716.5 million
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Jan 20, 2010 16:05
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where can i put a bet on utd going into administration within the next 15 years?
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Jan 20, 2010 16:54
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http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/10/billionaires-2009-richest-people_The-Worlds-Billionaires_Rank.html Reminder for united fans that owing to the recent financial crisis that only the people on the first page can do what you want and take over united cash in hand. Abramovich lost half his money (was $16billion when he took over) so realisticaly its the top 15 and the top two won't buy a vanity team, so you have 13 people or a consortium of billionaires who can save you.
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Jan 20, 2010 17:30
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^^can't catch a break^^Mickolution posted:Sorry if this has been posted already. If it has I've missed it. If not, it belongs here. that's pretty drat funny
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Jan 21, 2010 18:09
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The three year cycle does allow a club to spend in one season to try and make the top four but will have to offset this in the next two years. The big winners are spurs, arsenal and liverpool if they get their new stadium as the debt is not as unasailable as utd's. Those extra millions from stadiums will be critical. Also this won't mean poo poo if its not back dated because chelsea and city will splurge massively in the summer if it doesn't count as part of the 3 year ting.
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Jan 22, 2010 16:09
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FullLeatherJacket posted:And yes, it basically is an anti-sugar daddy rule. You could make a rule saying that clubs aren't allowed to take out loans, if you really wanted, but that basically bans smaller clubs from competing at all. should also stop heavily leveraged buyouts which is cool
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Jan 23, 2010 12:18
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Noxville posted:But what about the 'fit and proper persons' test??! Fit and proper test: Name: _______________ (if you don't want to put your name check box []) How much money do you have? ___________________________ Really? [] YES [] NO Are you sure? [] YES [] NO
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Jan 26, 2010 10:15
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/crystal_palace/8481549.stm Crystal palace finally succumbed to administration and they only didn't pay players twice
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Jan 26, 2010 23:45
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BunnyX posted:Good day to be a Millwall fan. Now all I need is an unlikely looking West Ham implosion and it's all good. yeah, what the gently caress would the league do if millwall and west ham ended up in the same league?
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Jan 27, 2010 00:40
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TyChan posted:I think a successful scouting network entails the ability to attract young players to play for your club and fight off offers from other clubs unless you're assuming that you're always going to be the only in the mix. Keeping young talent will also require success and/or wage spikes to keep players from jumping almost immediate to another big club once they rise to prominence. Plus, since not every find from your scouting system is going to be a success, you will have to plug holes with transfer spending and the more ambitious you get, the more money you will probably need to spend. agreed. Right now arsenal can find a youngster and say "yes you might not get as much money coming to us, but we play in europe, will develop you into the best you can be and even if you don't make the first team the arsenal academy name will give you the best chance of getting into another top flight team". That falls apart if everyone is doing the same thing.
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Jan 28, 2010 00:47
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willkill4food posted:If any club but Arsenal tried Arsenal's strategy they would have been relegated ages ago. especially as Arsenal had an amazing team to play with while the academy started up
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Jan 28, 2010 00:53
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brapbrapbrap posted:http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/8488910.stm I doubt the glazers want to sell now they are just at the point of really taking money out the club but you never know. Also £800 million is a lot to give away, that's at least 10 billionaires who love utd a whole bunch.
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Jan 30, 2010 17:30
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TyChan posted:Liverpool fans and other curious people might be interested in seeing what Managing Director Christian Purslow has supposedly admitted about the club's finances. good read, was pretty shocked as i read the first set of minutes but then got to his own set.
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Feb 2, 2010 20:48
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sticksy posted:Seriously, why is Liverpool the franchise he doesn't seem to want to let go? he's going to have the groundsman mow the goatman into the pitch at anfield before he finally gets bored of trolling scousers
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Feb 4, 2010 23:47
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TyChan posted:How many people does it take to sell a Merseyside football club? His brother hates him so much he'll probably buy everton or utd to compete with him
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Feb 9, 2010 08:24
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Mickolution posted:I didn't realise the pot in Spain was so much smaller than in the Premier League. Isn't the Premier League abour £30m per club though? That's not €2bn, in fact it's less than €1bn. Unless I'm very wrong about the amounts. Think it goes from £40m for winning the league to £25m for last place.
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Feb 11, 2010 08:27
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i really don't see pompey failing to fullfil fixtures if they go into administration and i think this is the PL trying to avoid them doing it while they are on their watch. Personally i don't think they will get unanimous approval.
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Feb 13, 2010 14:03
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A single arsenal player at the bottom. Though i'm sure arsharvin, fab and gallas are all on the same.
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Feb 16, 2010 21:04
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peanut- posted:While it's good that he saved the team, the fact that this guy bought the club and then found out about the state of its books afterwards says a lot about how many clubs have ended up the way they are. Probably not his fault, read an article about newcastle and apparently there was £75m of debt hidden away that no one other than the old owners knew was there.
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Feb 18, 2010 19:08
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ibroxmassive posted:For a run longer than the group stages? Definitely. You're looking at 100 million Euro for the bigger teams just to get past the group stages I think 100 million for the final, knock-outs worth 30-40 depending on the size of the club.
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Feb 18, 2010 20:35
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ibroxmassive posted:Definitely more than that I thought? Remember seeing figures of 330,000,000E but that might have been for the pot for group stages onwards. :/ nah its not, i'll post the list from my spreadsheet in a second pre:PRIZE MONEY Qualification € 2,400,000.00 Group win € 600,000.00 Group draw € 300,000.00 Knockout € 2,200,000.00 Quarter-final € 2,500,000.00 Semi-final € 3,000,000.00 Runner up € 4,000,000.00 Winner € 7,000,000.00 With TV, gates etc. Total for reaching knockout € 38,450,000.00 - € 42,000,000.00 Potential total revenue for finalist € 110,350,000.00 Loving Africa Chaps fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Feb 18, 2010 |
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Feb 18, 2010 20:41
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