Football Finances, come laugh at portsmouth - The Something Awful Forums

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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium* > The Ray Parlour > Football Finances, come laugh at portsmouth

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

greazeball posted:

I'd much rather spend my money insulting another team than waste it on something I'll never be able to see on my team's kit

A quick calculation shows a 2cm*2cm goatman could be yours for Ł2500

# ¿ Dec 4, 2011 06:11

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# ¿ May 26, 2013 07:23

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

ydaetskcoR posted:

Where do the players go to?

free agents can join any time

# ¿ Mar 3, 2012 15:45

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

pik_d posted:

What's that got to do with selling players?

sorry i got jumbled up. thought it was about the rangers players that are about to get made redundant

# ¿ Mar 3, 2012 15:47

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

Fat Guy Sexting posted:

It's going to be awful because for players that Rangers bought through like McGregor there was easily a shout for 5-6m dependent on contract and which team wanted him and now he'll probably go for gently caress all.

try and flog them to the middle east?

# ¿ Mar 3, 2012 15:51

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

Pissflops posted:

But like I said earlier, that gives specific benefits to the clubs buying the players that other clubs do not have.

Why should a few clubs gain an advantage over the rest?

agree with this as rangers have be gaining an unfair advantage over other scottish clubs for years by not paying their tax bill and spending more then their means on players. if they go out of business it's their own fault, everyone else has to play by the rules

# ¿ Mar 3, 2012 16:22

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

Fat Guy Sexting posted:

The EBT scheme hasn't been decided on yet. The non payment of taxes was under Whyte only.

I thought it was a formality though? i heard when the story broke that ranger's auditors had repeatedly warned the club that they would get hosed by it eventually

# ¿ Mar 3, 2012 16:31

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

euroboy posted:

Ł35m on a stadium that only exists on paper..that's special.

you could nearly build two riversides for that

# ¿ May 4, 2012 12:14

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

BisonDollah posted:

Latest in Scotland is that the assets of Rangers FC (the stadium, training ground, etc) are to be sold to American "tycoon" Bill Miller for Ł11 million, a new company will be created to play in the top tier of Scottish football from next season (whilst making use of these assets), the old company will attempt to deal with the bad poo poo (they're expected to owe Ł75 million+ to the tax-payer) and eventually be liquidated (remember that Ł11 million? Taxman won't see it because the current owner of Rangers is first in line for the handouts) BUT then the old companies shiny, happy history will be bolted onto the new company & THE RANGERS will be back, cleared of debt & facing -10 point deductions for the next 2 seasons in Scotland.

Or in other words it's A MASSIVE TAX-DODGE, as Channel 4's Alex Thomson describes it. If this happens I will be astounded & disgusted.

http://www.channel4.com/news/miller...referred-bidder

Disgrace if this happens. HMRC should seize ibrox if they try this and i thought newco wouldn't be allowed in the spl?

# ¿ May 4, 2012 12:27

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

BisonDollah posted:

SPL are bending over backwards to accommodate them, they recently delayed voting on creating some new rules that will allow a member of the league to transfer it's shares to a new entity (with some penalties re: the 10 point deductions) - because the sanctions may have put off prospective bidders on rangers. 99% of the authorities in Scotland believe Rangers are too big too fail & make the argument about what they do for the economy.... bizarre stuff.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...-fair-play.html

Noone wants to buy rangers because by rights it should be unsalvageable. Such a shame they might get away with it. Don't they owe the equivalent of Ł20 to every person in scotland?

Seize ibrox and turn it into flats imo. The newco can play in a park.

# ¿ May 4, 2012 12:56

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

Sonic H posted:

Some good points there Flaps. I think you're onto something.

Shifting Celtic to the EPL would also level the field a little for all the other Scottish clubs allowing for a slightly less predictable league each season.

Plus Celtic are poo poo so they'd get tanned every week. Until they came to Anfield where they'd get 3 points.

Not sure liverpool will be in league 1 just yet

# ¿ May 4, 2012 13:05

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

Scott Bakula posted:

http://www.football365.com/news/215...dmin-Before-FSG

I had no idea Liverpool's finances were that bad under Hicks/Gilette

they basically were in administration as the bank had seized the club but the premier league bottled the point deduction

# ¿ May 7, 2012 09:42

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

Masonity posted:

To be perfectly honest, while they own a valuable asset in the form of the stadium, they shouldn't be allowed to just drop the tax debt and start over. HMRC should take over the deeds to the stadium, even if they then agree to rent it back to the club for Ł1 a year for the next 3 years in order to allow them back into a competitive position. After that, it should be a percentage of ticket sales or something, with the option to buy the stadium back at any point for tax debts + interest.

I think rangers won't see a penny of their ticket sales for the next few years as they sold the rights to them to a company called ticketus. Turn ibrox into flats and be done with it.

# ¿ May 8, 2012 09:13

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

TyChan posted:

Doesn't a points deduction first require a formal declaration of administration or however the procedure works in the UK? I don't think the points deduction was a question the Premier League administration or anyone else seriously discussed.

The debt load was clearly unsustainable as long as Hicks and Gillett were still owners, but RBS pretty much knew that as far back as 2008 or so and structured the whole process so that control would revert to its appointed men in the club (Purslow et al.) instead of having to go through a messy court proceding and the kind of "winding up" order that triggers the point deduction. Also, as badly as things were going at Liverpool, the picture wasn't yet so abjectly hopeless that a winding up order was seriously in the cards.

Quite possible but iirc there was some talk that the default on the debt could trigger the same punishment. It's all academic anyway but just goes to show how vital FSG are for the club.

# ¿ May 8, 2012 09:15

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

The Clit Avoider posted:

Well much like his namesake it's all went a bit flat and reeks of piss. God speed Rangers indeed - TOOO THE GRAVE.

Lol did rangers fans really rather let their club go into liquidation rather than be owned by an American?

# ¿ May 9, 2012 07:43

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

Masonity posted:

I'm a little worried about Arsenal based on them.

No, I know we're in a great position. But what if the board say "Well, we've paid off 200 million in debt in 6 seasons. If we can hang on just 3 more years under the current transfer neutral model we can be debt free!"

I know the analysis says we have plenty of money to spend, and no longer have any real need to pay down the loan on the stadium, but can anyone see the board actually doing that? The best case scenario will be moving to a 10 year repayment plan for the final 90 million or so, diverting around 5 mil* in what would otherwise be transfer fees and wages into repayments.

*Back of the hand calculations based on an original plan to pay off the debt in around 30 years and taking into account early repayments. Obviously if the original plan was 30 years without early repayments we'd be naturally in line to pay them off in ten more years without holding back transfer fees.

Absolutely no chance the board deviates from the current model at the moment as it's working perfectly from their point of view (so long as the weekend goes to plan!). There's always been money to spend but as i understand it a players entire cost is taken out of it when they are signed so wages over the course of the contract etc.

When financing the stadium deal there was a requirement that the club invested ~24m per year in the squad but this has come largely in the form of renewed contracts for players (whenever we've had seasons with only one or two players coming in a load of people seem to renew deals)

We're certainly not in the position we'd like to think sometimes but there is certainly a big light at the end of the tunnel. The shirt deal is the big one and is up for renewal in 2014 but there has been some rumblings that we may terminate it early and pay compensation due to the fact the club think they will up it from Ł5m a year currently to between Ł20-25m. By then the stadium debt will be negligible and a 3rd phase of flats should be completed which will generate additional income.

Basically it's going to be tight for the next 2-3 years but then our spending power will absolutely rocket and would be nigh on untouchable if FFP worked.

# ¿ May 10, 2012 11:36

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

the sex ghost posted:

I don't know who this person is. I hope when he comes to inspect the ground we keep him away from the windows and not make the same mistakes as the last time someone wanted to invest

# ¿ May 27, 2012 12:23

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

Let's be honest this is almost certainly bates selling the club to himself to get his face in the papers and pocket a load of consultancy fees.

# ¿ May 27, 2012 13:02

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

A friend was telling me that it is an offence to transfer assets at below market value to a newco for the purposes of avoiding tax/cva stuff so there might be even more trouble if that's true.

# ¿ Jun 12, 2012 11:44

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

Mickolution posted:

Didn't know that at all. Just hope I can get the channel here and that it's cheap or even better, that it's included for free in my cable package.

They had some thing where they were undercutting sky for sports so i'm hoping this means even cheaper football as they won't have to pay the wholesale markup

# ¿ Jun 13, 2012 16:59

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

TheGoatFeeder posted:

So, United have listed themselves on the New York stock exchange, I have no idea what that REALLY means for the club. I'm assuming it is a way for them to raise funds to service their debts, which seems perfectly reasonable.

However, the United fans I know are freaking out massively and talking like its the end of the world, what am I missing? I get that there is something in there about them acknowledging that they could find it difficult to compete for top players, and top managers, am I right in assuming that is the more worrying part as opposed to the actual stock market listing?

Not sure a club playing in an english league should be registered in a foreign country.

# ¿ Jul 4, 2012 14:38

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

gently caress off wicka posted:

Arsenal released their financial statements: http://www.arsenal.com/assets/_file...C_year_end_.pdf

Property turnover down, football turnover up, world keeps turning.

Wage bill is creeping dangerously upward.

# ¿ Sep 27, 2012 21:59

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

It's not about protecting the big clubs though. The theory is that if the merseyside derby is on a 3pm all the followers of non premier league teams will for some reason stop going to watch their team live and watch that on telly instead.

# ¿ Oct 29, 2012 19:08

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

Was Taters posted:

Does that come with a catering allowance or anything?

They normally come with food

arsenal posted:

The Executive Box package includes:

Private 10, 12 or 15 seater Executive Box with external seating balcony
Champagne reception
Four course Buffet served with wine, beer & soft drinks
Half-time tea and coffee
Full-time refreshments
Matchday programme and gift

# ¿ Nov 14, 2012 18:52

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

euroboy posted:

Turns out the Arsenal announcement wasn't about Adidas after all, but about the Emirates extending their sponsorship until the end of the 2018/2019 season, worth Ł150m. They will also keep the naming rights of the stadium until 2029.

Gazidis says it's one of the biggest deals ever in football.

Less then what was bandied about as possible but still Ł20m+ more a year then currently. Lets see what we get from addidas.

# ¿ Nov 23, 2012 13:04

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

Scott Bakula posted:

All that money Wenger will continue to not spend. Must be great being a major shareholder in Arsenal

On my way to my first fan share

Also we're going to put our giant pile of money in goal.

# ¿ Nov 23, 2012 14:35

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

Dudley posted:

I have literally never heard an Arsenal fan call it that. And I've been to "The Grove".

Ive heard it maybe once or twice and I have a season ticket.

# ¿ Nov 26, 2012 11:02

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

Xeno posted:

PSG sign €150m per year deal with Quatar Tourism Authority. Well that's FFP sorted out then. Dodgy as gently caress.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/s...ar-deal?cc=5739

I don't think it should be too hard to argue that a deal for the runners up in the forth best league being tripple the Yankee stadium and barca shirt deals is not the market rate.

# ¿ Dec 20, 2012 18:36

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

Dudley posted:

Fair enough, so what, in US dollars, is the maximum you're allowing PSG to raise in a deal like that?

Considering it's not even a sponsorship deal $5m

# ¿ Dec 20, 2012 22:33

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

Dudley posted:

Whereas FFP's "allowed funding level" is just "Whatever some panel or bloke decides on that day".

I don't think it has to be. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to work out that certain deals are statistical outliers. I'm sure legitimate deals have the company doing the sponsoring analysing what sort of exposure they'll get out the deal and what they think that's worth. Companies linked to the owner shouldn't be allowed to sponsor their team or at the very least held to a much higher standard of proof. Clubs shouldn't be too upset because if the deal was really the market rate there will be an alternative company who can sponsor them instead.

# ¿ Dec 23, 2012 11:12

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

I love how now everytime a footballer is not a complete stinkyhole he's described as 'classy'

# ¿ Feb 7, 2013 07:31

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

Would quite like a Ł100m/year wage cap across Europe. Yes it's a ludicrous sum that's double what the majority of top tier clubs pay but it's half of what city and Chelsea are shelling out. It'd never happen though.

# ¿ Feb 9, 2013 00:05

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

I got my first statement through from the arsenal fanshare scheme today. It has now got 85 full shares which while only being a 0.14% stake still represents Ł1.3m of fans money which isn't too bad for something that hasn't had much publicity since it launched.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2013 17:56

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

marcadia posted:

How much have you put into it? Does it entitle you to attend board meetings etc..?

Not alot yet, only started a direct debit recently. If you want you can go to the AGM but obiously as there are more people then full shares names are drawn out from those who've said they want to go. The goal is to get enough of a stake as to have a fan rep on the board but that'll be someone from the arsenal supporters trust rather then random fans going to board meetings and doing wanker signs under the table at ivan gazidis

# ¿ Mar 10, 2013 10:48

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# ¿ May 26, 2013 07:23

Loving Africa Chaps: Dec 3, 2007; We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

Giovanni_Sinclair posted:

Just checked out the site and read it requited the person to be a UK resident and has a UK bank account, is there a way a overseas supporter to join in?

You could join the arsenal supporters trust but at the moment for some bizarre legal reasons you can't join fanshare. I think they're working on it.

# ¿ Mar 12, 2013 22:29

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